BackToSquareOne

As we all know alcoholism is a progressive disease and no one starts out as a hard core alcoholic nor does everyone progress to that stage of the disease. I know many heavy drinkers that by most medical guidelines would be classified as alcoholics but they don't seem to fit the mold. They can, for example go to a party or family gathering and drink a lot, get very drunk but at the end of the day they can turn it off. They never miss a days work, lose jobs or families and their lives aren't really affected in any noticable manner. Many are able to live out their lives without negative consequences.

I know many people and family members who fit into this catagory and in a way I have always been a little jealous and wondered why they could pull it off and i could not. It almost seems like they have an "off switch" and I do not. Certain recovery programs espouse the idea that it's all learned behavior and the alcoholic can be retrained to drink normally. I have tried many times over the years to drink normally but could never get my "off switch" to work, once I started all bets were off.

I guess the reason I'm even posting this is that I still wonder if it really is a learned behavior or is it a bio-chemical brain chemistry thing that seperates the alcoholic from the heavy drinker. If it truely were a brain chemistry issue then you have to wonder if a drug will ever be invented to address the problem. Any thoughts.

sailorjohn

A lot of those folks that don't seem to have any problems simply drink themselves to death at a relatively early age. Their deaths are attributed to everything but their drinking. As far as whether or not it's genetic or learned behavior, evidence seems to be, like most things, genetic. I have long since given up trying to figure out who might/might not be alcoholic, comparing my drinking to that of others was one of the tools I used to stay in denial.

doorknob

To which recovery programs are you referring? All the ones that I know of are abstinence-based except for Moderation Management and Drinkwise, both of which specifically exclude the alcoholic.

BackToSquareOne

I didn't realize those groups excluded the alcoholic but many believe that it is a voluntary behavior, for example Rational Recovery believes :
While RR and AA promote abstinence, the programs use different strategies.

RR does not regard alcoholism as a disease, but rather a voluntary behavior.
RR discourages adoption of the forever "recovering" drunk persona.
There are no RR recovery groups.
Great emphasis is placed on self-efficacy (see Bandura).
There are no discrete steps and no consideration of religious matters.

In essence they're saying that if it's a learned behavior, then it could be "unlearned".

I guess what I find interesting is that you can go to an AA meeting and meet people all over the spectrum in the progression of the illness. Some have not yet crossed that imaginary line to full blown alcoholism and maybe never would. From what I have seen the biggest difference between the heavy drinker and the alcoholic is the element of control. The heavy drinker can turn it off at will and the alcoholic can not.

CarolD

Hmm..
The door to abstinance has various keys.
The point is to find one before you die from unchecked alcoholism.

Regardless of what type of drinker you are
...I've never heard of a bad reason
to choose abstinance

Pinkcuda

First off, in Dr Bob's final speech in 1950 he strongly urged that we don't louse this up with all the Freudian stuff that is only of interest to the scientific mind.
Your second sentence makes me wonder if we don't cure it because nobody wants to.
For me to say that I wish they would find a cure for alcoholism so I could drink again doesn't seem to fit anywhere in my life at this point.
Serenity calls for me to just accept it, and I do.

Tazman53

Both of my grandfathers were alcoholics, my father was an alcoholic, I am an alcoholic, my son is an alcoholic and from listening to one of my daughters she may well be also, draw your own conclusion from that in regards to possible hereditary links.

Learned behavior? Well my father was a recovered alcoholic, I never saw the man drink a single drop, there was never a drop of booze in my house, I never saw either of my grand fathers drink either.... so who taught me that learned behavior?

The program of AA does not either, but many people in AA do. In the BB of AA it speaks more then once of being "recovered", not from alcoholism, but from a hopeless state of mind and body, that I totally agree with, but the BB in concurrence with modern day medicine also states that one is always an alcoholic.

I am a recovered alcoholic the majority of the time, but there are times when I let my condition regress to the point where I am recovering and not recovered in my mind.LOL

bugsworth

I like Taz come from a long line of alcoholics...my natural father froze to death drinking a 12 pack in the woods one very cold winters night. The family that raised me from a young age rarely drank...I simply taught myself. I ignored every sign given to me to stop...throwing up to blacking out. After years of this my off switch was broke or no longer operated the way it was suppose to. I was able to push past all the previous signs to drink some more. I do believe that had I taken heed to the signs my body was giving me I would have not progressed to the point I was when I quit.

Learned behavior...heredity...who knows...bottom line I abused alcohol until it abused me.

tommyk

BackToSquareOne - I used to have the same questions, and others.

Can I swim like Michael Phelps? No. Why not? Is it genetic, chemical?
Can I play guitar like Dave Matthews? Not hardly. Why not?
Can I drink like the next guy? No. How come?

I realized that the answer is... there's no answer, just more questions.

So I quit asking and I just did the best I could with what was best for me.

sugErspun

This reminded me of a song lyric:

"I would rather be working for a paycheck, than waiting to win the lottery."

pinetree

hi, new here. All I know is I can't drink in safely. I use to try and figure it out but I could never answer that question.

soarinhigh

I think at one point or another we've all tries to figure that out.

welcome pine

CarolD

pinetree...Welcome to our SR recovery community

navysteve

Like everyone else that has posted, I don't think it matters. I had to quit the debate. I know I cannot drink alcohol. I have a track record that shows this all too well. I have three DWI's, 13 totalled vehicles. Countless times waking up and not knowing where I was. Why would I do the thing that caused this even when I know it will???? I may not be a genius, but I am not stupid

CarolD

I posed this question at my noon AA meeting
"Genetics or learned behavior?"

18 members there....
10 of us were AA sober for more than 10 years.
Only 1 had less than a year.

My "hot" topic was mostly met with a :
Drat! Another meeting on enjoying recovery.

maltipoobear

"Certain recovery programs espouse the idea that it's all learned behavior and the alcoholic can be retrained to drink normally. I have tried many times over the years to drink normally but could never get my "off switch" to work, once I started all bets were off."

I guess some folks have broken switches and some do not. Specifically which programs did you try and for how long?

Boleo

I suspect that it is a combination of the 2 plus some genetic predisposition thrown into the mix. Either way, there is nothing to gain by dwelling on the problem. The long-term solution is the same for both.

That is changing our thinking and staying spiritually fit.

Pam08

I dont' think anyone will ever really know why some of us becomes alchys and some do not..i think it is a combination of stuff...between, mental, physical, heredity etc etc...I had one grandfather who was a drunk...parents and siblings..nutta..they are so straight..dont even cuss, except for my younger sister who does party some..but ....how did i become the black sheep of the family, the drunk..who will ever know..not I ...I am sure..

fulminouscherub

Ingesting toxins as recreation. Res ipsa loquitur.

LostSoul79

i don't think i was manufactured with an off switch, nor were the few revisions before me (father, grandfather, etc)