stopping
Member
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Northern CA
Posts: 1,432
Hi, Wiebe,
Try some travel mugs, with tops you can put on and sip through. Starbucks sells 'em!.
I'm not sure about the "rock bottom" part. I think most of us can just redefine rock bottom as needed. I'm sure there are plenty of folks on this board who had bad physical and mental effects of alcohol abuse but never, say, ended up on the streets panhandling for their next bottle. I used to measure the morning by whether or not I was throwing up bile. No bile was a good day. George C. Scott once described himself as a "functional alcoholic," meaning he drank heavily but functioned fine at work and on a day-to-day basis. We don't necessarily have to have a life-changing physical (or legal) event in order to find the motivation and make the commitment to get sober.
That gets to some of the principles of SMART which could be useful to you and others. The simplest principle is that our behavior is based on our emotions and beliefs, and if we can change those beliefs we can change our behavior. This seems simple, but it can be a challenge to change the beliefs on which long-established behavior patterns are based.
Some of those beliefs can arise from deeper-seated problems such as self-esteem issues, anxiety, and depression, so sometimes counseling can help. But just focusing on why you drink and what you believe about drinking, and determining which of those beliefs are irrational, enables you to start disputing them.
Early sobriety (in all programs that I know of) focuses on techniques for changing the behavior. Go to meetings (real or face-to-face), change your diet, start exercising, practice how you'll deal with urges, do some role-playing, etc. But the change in beliefs is happening. In AA, I assume, you come to BELIEVE that you have a disease, and you accept (or reaffirm) a BELIEF in a higher power which will help you develop your motivation and commitment. You accept that your life had become unmanageable, and so on. These are things you didn't believe just a few weeks prior. Anyone who has come to a recovery forum board is already making a change in their beliefs about drinking.
So here are some simple beliefs I once held, which I now acknowledge were irrational:
I can drink a small amount of alcohol and stop.
I can moderate my drinking.
Drinking isn't really affecting my health.
If there is alcohol in the house, I won't necessarily drink it, so it's okay to buy extra bottles.
People don't really notice or mind when I've been drinking.
All of those beliefs were just untrue, and disputing them proved to be pretty easy because they are specific. But it's amazing how long we can hold onto them! Getting an outside perspective--your doctor, your girlfriend, a counselor--can help you realize that beliefs such as these are irrational.
Getting a little "deeper," I believed:
Daily drinking helps reduce my anxiety and depression.
Our sex life is better when we've been drinking.
I am more creative/sociable/accomplished when I've had some alcohol (or pot, or...)
Drinking relaxes the part of my brain that worries about work, finances, etc.
I couldn't spend an evening without at least some alcohol.
It will be very uncomfortable to quit drinking.
These are more general, and there may be some truth to each belief. So disputing them becomes a matter of finding and believing a rebuttal to the statement. Avoiding absolute and demanding words like "should, must, couldn't, can't" can be a useful tool. Avoiding overstating how awful things are or will be is another.
So while it may be uncomfortable to quit drinking, it won't be TOO uncomfortable and I CAN bear it. Daily drinking temporarily reduces the symptoms of my anxiety, but increases it in the long run. An accurate appraisal of my piano playing when sober is that it is sharper and there are fewer errors.
If you're having trouble figuring out what you believe about alcohol, a simple technique is to do a cost-benefit analysis (CBA). Take a sheet of paper and make a line down the middle. Write down the things you know alcohol "costs" you on one side--money, health, etc. Write down the benefits you get on the other.
People often get stumped here, because they've decided drinking isn't good for them so it's hard to focus on what you LIKE about alcohol. But even if the behavior has become almost a mechanical process, there is (or was) some benefit we perceive. Finding other ways to achieve those benefits is what we mean when we say that changing your lifestyle is part of achieving sobriety.
Another tool used in SMART is called an ABC. Some people drink in response to specific triggers, or because of emotional upsets. If you can identify the activating event (A) which led to your condition (C), then you can identify the irrational belief (B) which you need to dispute (D). For daily, medicinal drinkers like myself this didn't seem that practical--after all, I drank every day, the same amount, so how can I find an activating event?
But you can apply it to specific drinking events. You've described someone bringing a bag of beer, or a customer having it when you arrive to do work. Why do you open the can when he hands it to you? Do you believe he won't accept that you are now sober? So the condition (C) may be anxiety about the response, and the social situation is the activating event (A). It is surprising how often this comes up; just check the different forum board around the holidays! What am I going to do when --- offers me a drink? How will I explain it? What will people think? So, is it true that someone will be offended when you decline a beer? Probably not, so that belief (B) is irrational. You can do some roleplaying, practicing what you're going to say when the beer is put in front of you. But first you can dispute(D) the belief.
Those are some tools you can add to your arsenal. Probably the best one to close with is PPP, which applies to ANY recovery program: practice, patience, and persistence.
You sound great, Wiebe. Thanks for posting!
Don S
Try some travel mugs, with tops you can put on and sip through. Starbucks sells 'em!.
I'm not sure about the "rock bottom" part. I think most of us can just redefine rock bottom as needed. I'm sure there are plenty of folks on this board who had bad physical and mental effects of alcohol abuse but never, say, ended up on the streets panhandling for their next bottle. I used to measure the morning by whether or not I was throwing up bile. No bile was a good day. George C. Scott once described himself as a "functional alcoholic," meaning he drank heavily but functioned fine at work and on a day-to-day basis. We don't necessarily have to have a life-changing physical (or legal) event in order to find the motivation and make the commitment to get sober.
That gets to some of the principles of SMART which could be useful to you and others. The simplest principle is that our behavior is based on our emotions and beliefs, and if we can change those beliefs we can change our behavior. This seems simple, but it can be a challenge to change the beliefs on which long-established behavior patterns are based.
Some of those beliefs can arise from deeper-seated problems such as self-esteem issues, anxiety, and depression, so sometimes counseling can help. But just focusing on why you drink and what you believe about drinking, and determining which of those beliefs are irrational, enables you to start disputing them.
Early sobriety (in all programs that I know of) focuses on techniques for changing the behavior. Go to meetings (real or face-to-face), change your diet, start exercising, practice how you'll deal with urges, do some role-playing, etc. But the change in beliefs is happening. In AA, I assume, you come to BELIEVE that you have a disease, and you accept (or reaffirm) a BELIEF in a higher power which will help you develop your motivation and commitment. You accept that your life had become unmanageable, and so on. These are things you didn't believe just a few weeks prior. Anyone who has come to a recovery forum board is already making a change in their beliefs about drinking.
So here are some simple beliefs I once held, which I now acknowledge were irrational:
I can drink a small amount of alcohol and stop.
I can moderate my drinking.
Drinking isn't really affecting my health.
If there is alcohol in the house, I won't necessarily drink it, so it's okay to buy extra bottles.
People don't really notice or mind when I've been drinking.
All of those beliefs were just untrue, and disputing them proved to be pretty easy because they are specific. But it's amazing how long we can hold onto them! Getting an outside perspective--your doctor, your girlfriend, a counselor--can help you realize that beliefs such as these are irrational.
Getting a little "deeper," I believed:
Daily drinking helps reduce my anxiety and depression.
Our sex life is better when we've been drinking.
I am more creative/sociable/accomplished when I've had some alcohol (or pot, or...)
Drinking relaxes the part of my brain that worries about work, finances, etc.
I couldn't spend an evening without at least some alcohol.
It will be very uncomfortable to quit drinking.
These are more general, and there may be some truth to each belief. So disputing them becomes a matter of finding and believing a rebuttal to the statement. Avoiding absolute and demanding words like "should, must, couldn't, can't" can be a useful tool. Avoiding overstating how awful things are or will be is another.
So while it may be uncomfortable to quit drinking, it won't be TOO uncomfortable and I CAN bear it. Daily drinking temporarily reduces the symptoms of my anxiety, but increases it in the long run. An accurate appraisal of my piano playing when sober is that it is sharper and there are fewer errors.
If you're having trouble figuring out what you believe about alcohol, a simple technique is to do a cost-benefit analysis (CBA). Take a sheet of paper and make a line down the middle. Write down the things you know alcohol "costs" you on one side--money, health, etc. Write down the benefits you get on the other.
People often get stumped here, because they've decided drinking isn't good for them so it's hard to focus on what you LIKE about alcohol. But even if the behavior has become almost a mechanical process, there is (or was) some benefit we perceive. Finding other ways to achieve those benefits is what we mean when we say that changing your lifestyle is part of achieving sobriety.
Another tool used in SMART is called an ABC. Some people drink in response to specific triggers, or because of emotional upsets. If you can identify the activating event (A) which led to your condition (C), then you can identify the irrational belief (B) which you need to dispute (D). For daily, medicinal drinkers like myself this didn't seem that practical--after all, I drank every day, the same amount, so how can I find an activating event?
But you can apply it to specific drinking events. You've described someone bringing a bag of beer, or a customer having it when you arrive to do work. Why do you open the can when he hands it to you? Do you believe he won't accept that you are now sober? So the condition (C) may be anxiety about the response, and the social situation is the activating event (A). It is surprising how often this comes up; just check the different forum board around the holidays! What am I going to do when --- offers me a drink? How will I explain it? What will people think? So, is it true that someone will be offended when you decline a beer? Probably not, so that belief (B) is irrational. You can do some roleplaying, practicing what you're going to say when the beer is put in front of you. But first you can dispute(D) the belief.
Those are some tools you can add to your arsenal. Probably the best one to close with is PPP, which applies to ANY recovery program: practice, patience, and persistence.
You sound great, Wiebe. Thanks for posting!
Don S
Forward we go...side by side-Rest In Peace
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Serene In Dixie
Posts: 36,740
Why not?
I know AA members who use SMART too.
Here you go webe..
www.smartrecovery.com
Try standing on your head...eat only peas...talk to trees...Whatever it takes dear heart!!
Here you go webe..
www.smartrecovery.com
Try standing on your head...eat only peas...talk to trees...Whatever it takes dear heart!!
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: the Netherlands
Posts: 141
Hi Jenn, thanks for posting. Haven't seen your posts in the other threads. If you're on these boards you're probably trying to deal with something. Care to share it? The people here (not me, YET) have lots of good feedback, tips and support, all of which can help if you post a question or new thread. Hope to hear from you, or see a new thread posted on the main board.
Hi Don, man, you give me a lot of stuff to chew on. Usually I read it more than once and then sleep on it, and then read it again and respond to what I understood. The part I can answer now is that no-one would be offended if I refused a beer. Can you imagine that they choose to have a drunk sitting behind the systems their livelyhood depends on? No, refusing beer would make everyone I still have contact with (the few that I have) happy. Those who aren't, who cares. Tommorow morning I'll read your post again and respond to more of it (sitting behind a cup of coffee with a straw, because we don't have Starbuck's here). Your responses are one of the things that helps me keep building "one piece at a time".
Thanks, will post tommorow,
Wiebe
Hi Don, man, you give me a lot of stuff to chew on. Usually I read it more than once and then sleep on it, and then read it again and respond to what I understood. The part I can answer now is that no-one would be offended if I refused a beer. Can you imagine that they choose to have a drunk sitting behind the systems their livelyhood depends on? No, refusing beer would make everyone I still have contact with (the few that I have) happy. Those who aren't, who cares. Tommorow morning I'll read your post again and respond to more of it (sitting behind a cup of coffee with a straw, because we don't have Starbuck's here). Your responses are one of the things that helps me keep building "one piece at a time".
Thanks, will post tommorow,
Wiebe
JUST FOR TODAY
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Lowell, MA
Posts: 104
This is amazing. Truly amazing. This is the way Alcoholics Anonymous started. One alcoholic helping another alcoholic. I haven't been to this post for a number of days. And I had to start from the very beginning. I didn't get around to reading every post and every word, but what I have read makes me feel extremely good inside. I cannot find the words to describe how I feel. I can't find ANY words to describe how I feel.
Wiebe I am awful proud of you and your determination. Your girlfriend and all the changes the both of you are going through together. And I am proud to be a member of Alcoholics Anonymous after what I see here. Never in my life, with the exception of 9/11, have I seen so many people pulling together for the same cause. Without expecting anything in return. Just to help is their only reason.
A ways back in some of the posts I had noticed some mention of smoking cigarettes and drinking coffee. And I believe it was mentioned that no one could recall if it was mentioned in the Big Book. I being a cigarette smoker and a drinker of coffee, managed to stumble on to it in the Big Book. And a friend of mine had said, leave it up to an alcoholic to find something in the Big Book to enable him to smoke cigarettes. So here it is:
Chapter 9...The Family Afterward; page 135, 2d paragraph.
"One of our friends is a heavy smoker and coffee drinker. There was no doubt he over-indulged. Seeing this, and meaning to be helpful, his wife commenced to admonish him about it. He admitted he was overdoing these things, but frankly said he was not ready to stop. His wife is one of those persons who really feels there is something rather sinful about these commodities, so she nagged and her intolerance finally threw him into a fit of anger. He got drunk.
Of course our friend was wrong----dead wrong. He had to painfully admit that and mend his spiritual fences. Though he is now a most effective member of Alcoholics Anonymous, he still smokes and drinks coffee, but neither his wife nor anyone else stands in judgement. She sees she was wrong to make a burning issue out of such a matter when his more serious ailments were being rapidly cured.
We have three little mottoes which are apropos. Here they are."
"First Things First"
"Live and Let Live"
"Easy Does It"
And one other that I find constant use for is "Keep It Simple"
My heart warming thanks goes out to all that have shared here and everyone trying to help. God Bless Everyone.
One Day At A Time.
Harry
Wiebe I am awful proud of you and your determination. Your girlfriend and all the changes the both of you are going through together. And I am proud to be a member of Alcoholics Anonymous after what I see here. Never in my life, with the exception of 9/11, have I seen so many people pulling together for the same cause. Without expecting anything in return. Just to help is their only reason.
A ways back in some of the posts I had noticed some mention of smoking cigarettes and drinking coffee. And I believe it was mentioned that no one could recall if it was mentioned in the Big Book. I being a cigarette smoker and a drinker of coffee, managed to stumble on to it in the Big Book. And a friend of mine had said, leave it up to an alcoholic to find something in the Big Book to enable him to smoke cigarettes. So here it is:
Chapter 9...The Family Afterward; page 135, 2d paragraph.
"One of our friends is a heavy smoker and coffee drinker. There was no doubt he over-indulged. Seeing this, and meaning to be helpful, his wife commenced to admonish him about it. He admitted he was overdoing these things, but frankly said he was not ready to stop. His wife is one of those persons who really feels there is something rather sinful about these commodities, so she nagged and her intolerance finally threw him into a fit of anger. He got drunk.
Of course our friend was wrong----dead wrong. He had to painfully admit that and mend his spiritual fences. Though he is now a most effective member of Alcoholics Anonymous, he still smokes and drinks coffee, but neither his wife nor anyone else stands in judgement. She sees she was wrong to make a burning issue out of such a matter when his more serious ailments were being rapidly cured.
We have three little mottoes which are apropos. Here they are."
"First Things First"
"Live and Let Live"
"Easy Does It"
And one other that I find constant use for is "Keep It Simple"
My heart warming thanks goes out to all that have shared here and everyone trying to help. God Bless Everyone.
One Day At A Time.
Harry
Member
Join Date: May 2003
Location: El Paso, Tx
Posts: 5,862
Hi Weibe,
Glad things are becoming clearer for you. Yes, a little progress can go a long way. I am tied of the heat here as well, makes for exhausting days. I am glad you keep coming back and are looking into ways that will bnifit you in recovery. Whatever works for you! Keep up the good work and don't beat yourself up, just keep stepping forward towards total sobriety. You'll get there!
Glad things are becoming clearer for you. Yes, a little progress can go a long way. I am tied of the heat here as well, makes for exhausting days. I am glad you keep coming back and are looking into ways that will bnifit you in recovery. Whatever works for you! Keep up the good work and don't beat yourself up, just keep stepping forward towards total sobriety. You'll get there!
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: the Netherlands
Posts: 141
Hi Harry, ya, the help coming from these boards and my girlfriend have gotton me to a point I see as the beginning of the end of this stupid alchohalic haze I've been living in. It's cool that you found that part of the big book, but the whole question was already clear in my mind wether I had remmembered that part right or not. I know for a fact that I can't fix the cigarette problem or anything else while I'm living for the sole purpose of serving my addiction. The cigarettes will go when I have the will and lucidity to focus my energy on that problem. Smoking is linked to many diseases, but I now see alcohal AS THE DISEASE that wraps itself slowly but irreversibly around an otherwise healthy mind and choke the life out of it. Many people I've known for a long time say stuff like I'm a shadow of who I was in the prebooze days. The bits of sobriety I have had in the last while have already been enough to let me see they were right.
I'm sitting here typing and smoking and drinking coffee through a straw, and reasonably AWAKE AND SOBER. I LOVE IT. It's lunch time here and later today I'll go to the store and get about half as much beer as I used to get 6 months ago (still enough to knock out a normal healthy person). There's no way ever to get back to "normal" drinking at this point. It has to be completely eliminated.
Hi Chy, the heat wave here is letting up! What a difference! Hope yours lets up soon. Of course I keep coming back to these boards Chy. Drowning people have a tendency to grab at anything that floats. Looking forward to the day that I have some usefull advice for other people.
Thanks for the posts,
Wiebe
I'm sitting here typing and smoking and drinking coffee through a straw, and reasonably AWAKE AND SOBER. I LOVE IT. It's lunch time here and later today I'll go to the store and get about half as much beer as I used to get 6 months ago (still enough to knock out a normal healthy person). There's no way ever to get back to "normal" drinking at this point. It has to be completely eliminated.
Hi Chy, the heat wave here is letting up! What a difference! Hope yours lets up soon. Of course I keep coming back to these boards Chy. Drowning people have a tendency to grab at anything that floats. Looking forward to the day that I have some usefull advice for other people.
Thanks for the posts,
Wiebe
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: the Netherlands
Posts: 141
Hi Don, just read your post again, for the third time. Lots of food for thought. About 10 years ago my partner and I started a business here, and it is now worth millions, and he owns a lot of real estate, has a big house with a happy family, a big sea going sailboat. He's a big guy in the community, and he's pleased with his achievements. We have lunch about once a week. I left that company about 6 years ago and proceeded to drink myself into a bankruptcy, and the last 5 years have been the miserable daily cycle I've described, functioning just barely enough to feed the addiction. I could make a huge list of the damage on a piece of paper and balance that against being sedated enough not to care about how bad it's gotton.
Actually, maybe you have a point. Just looking at what I just wrote make me wonder why in the world I'll probably end up at the store later today. It's wierd how just writing something down hammers it home.
I'll read your post every morning for the next few days.
Thanks for taking the time to post it.
Wiebe
Actually, maybe you have a point. Just looking at what I just wrote make me wonder why in the world I'll probably end up at the store later today. It's wierd how just writing something down hammers it home.
I'll read your post every morning for the next few days.
Thanks for taking the time to post it.
Wiebe
Member
Join Date: May 2003
Location: El Paso, Tx
Posts: 5,862
Weibe what are you thinking? Please don't go to the store, stay here all day if need be but your going to have to decide for yourself. You have to do this for yourself when your ready, I only hope you don't wait to long.
I know how hard it is. I believe I had a miracle to quit when and how I did and still not want to drink. Not that I haven't thought about it, these hot days a cold beer sure would be good, but it wouldn't stop at one.
So I hope your working very hard at cutting back. You don't need to drink 20 beers to get through the physical withdrawls you don't need them that much for physical reasons anymore. It's in your head were you must let go. Have confidence in yourself you can do it. Pray real hard. Don't think about your weaknesses and don't dwell on the "what if's", "how am I gonna's.." either you want to quit and will or your going to convince yourself everyday your cutting back, to justify your drinking. I know this seems harsh, I just want this so bad for you and I do know nothing anyone says can convince you, it has to come from within you. A desire more powerful then the drink and a belief you can. See that's the hard part since we are in fact powerless over alcohol, you have to do it at a momement when your desire to quit is stronger then your desire to drink.
I hope your moment comes soon! I care about you Weibe!
I know how hard it is. I believe I had a miracle to quit when and how I did and still not want to drink. Not that I haven't thought about it, these hot days a cold beer sure would be good, but it wouldn't stop at one.
So I hope your working very hard at cutting back. You don't need to drink 20 beers to get through the physical withdrawls you don't need them that much for physical reasons anymore. It's in your head were you must let go. Have confidence in yourself you can do it. Pray real hard. Don't think about your weaknesses and don't dwell on the "what if's", "how am I gonna's.." either you want to quit and will or your going to convince yourself everyday your cutting back, to justify your drinking. I know this seems harsh, I just want this so bad for you and I do know nothing anyone says can convince you, it has to come from within you. A desire more powerful then the drink and a belief you can. See that's the hard part since we are in fact powerless over alcohol, you have to do it at a momement when your desire to quit is stronger then your desire to drink.
I hope your moment comes soon! I care about you Weibe!
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: the Netherlands
Posts: 141
Hi Chy, yes I did stay on the boards most of the day. Later I did go to the store and bought 10 1/2 liter cans, and later gave one away. Compared to before this is nothing, like no buzz, nothing. By the way, if you had the cheap stuff I buy in your fridge, I doubt if you'd be tempted much. Anyway I was stuck on a little piece of the post from Don the whole day and evening. The cost / benefits thing. The costs could fill a volume, but the whole day I was thinking about the benefits. Or more accurately a single benefit. Anything.
My life has changed totally since the days when I felt I got lots of satisfaction from the stuff. Where I used to be surounded by violent, loud drug addicts (through my kids) I now have a wonderfull, gentle girlfriend. Tons has changed. Even the physical symptoms of withdrawl are down to annoying (not dangerous). And I love coffee (just ordered a better coffee pot that should be delivered today).
Which brings me to the most ultimately stupid question I have ever heard of! With all of the real or imagined reasons to drink gone. Without much threat of landing up in the hospital by stopping. With tons of support from my girlfriend and daughter, and little resistance from my son. None of the people I still work with drink abnormally. What in the world makes me follow my feet to the store? I do like to believe that (in other respects) I'm not insane or totally stupid. (my new coffee pot just arrived).
You mentioned fear of sobriety as being a big thing keeping you from it. Could that be it? I read in another thread that "my worst day sober was beter than my best day drunk" and know for a fact that this is true, from personal experience.
What is at the heart of this is the same unanswerable question that was at the root of what I posted at the begining of this thread.
I will quit eventually, and I'll try out my new koffee pot shortly.
Thanks for posting,
Wiebe
My life has changed totally since the days when I felt I got lots of satisfaction from the stuff. Where I used to be surounded by violent, loud drug addicts (through my kids) I now have a wonderfull, gentle girlfriend. Tons has changed. Even the physical symptoms of withdrawl are down to annoying (not dangerous). And I love coffee (just ordered a better coffee pot that should be delivered today).
Which brings me to the most ultimately stupid question I have ever heard of! With all of the real or imagined reasons to drink gone. Without much threat of landing up in the hospital by stopping. With tons of support from my girlfriend and daughter, and little resistance from my son. None of the people I still work with drink abnormally. What in the world makes me follow my feet to the store? I do like to believe that (in other respects) I'm not insane or totally stupid. (my new coffee pot just arrived).
You mentioned fear of sobriety as being a big thing keeping you from it. Could that be it? I read in another thread that "my worst day sober was beter than my best day drunk" and know for a fact that this is true, from personal experience.
What is at the heart of this is the same unanswerable question that was at the root of what I posted at the begining of this thread.
I will quit eventually, and I'll try out my new koffee pot shortly.
Thanks for posting,
Wiebe
Member
Join Date: May 2003
Location: El Paso, Tx
Posts: 5,862
*Big Hug*
*Handing you a BIG coffee mug*
Your post this morning seems refreshing. I think you've made great strides.. I don't mean to the store! Your going through the discovery process which was my begining to quit, realizing your drinking for all the wrong reasons, it's not fun anymore, health issues etc. Your enjoying the sober periods and have a deep understanding of what your stiving toward.
Keep your pros and cons list going. Write it down. Make it visible for you to see. I never could answer the questions of why! Why do I head straight to the store, why do I wanna feel like crap everyother day, why am I not happy, etc. Because I am an alcoholic and allowed it to control MY life. A can, a liquid, which gave me a joyous feeling the first time I drank. I've been chasing that feeling the last 20 years with poor results a dependancy on the substance that once made me happy, gave me confidence, another world. I've never had the enjoyment from life while drinking in search of that first feeling from that first beer it NEVER fulfilled me again the last two decades like it did the first time. The end result was a dpendancy/addiction on a liquid that totaly fooled me.
I call it my Demon. Since that is what they do, they fool you, trick you, decive, and bring nothing but misery.
I have only begun to discover it as I bcame sober Weibe and so will you. You are doing better, now only have 5 cans today!
Still praying for you my friend.
Your post this morning seems refreshing. I think you've made great strides.. I don't mean to the store!
Your going through the discovery process which was my begining to quit, realizing your drinking for all the wrong reasons, it's not fun anymore, health issues etc. Your enjoying the sober periods and have a deep understanding of what your stiving toward. Keep your pros and cons list going. Write it down. Make it visible for you to see. I never could answer the questions of why! Why do I head straight to the store, why do I wanna feel like crap everyother day, why am I not happy, etc. Because I am an alcoholic and allowed it to control MY life. A can, a liquid, which gave me a joyous feeling the first time I drank. I've been chasing that feeling the last 20 years with poor results a dependancy on the substance that once made me happy, gave me confidence, another world. I've never had the enjoyment from life while drinking in search of that first feeling from that first beer it NEVER fulfilled me again the last two decades like it did the first time. The end result was a dpendancy/addiction on a liquid that totaly fooled me.
I call it my Demon. Since that is what they do, they fool you, trick you, decive, and bring nothing but misery.
I have only begun to discover it as I bcame sober Weibe and so will you. You are doing better, now only have 5 cans today!
Still praying for you my friend.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: the Netherlands
Posts: 141
Hi Chy, GOT a big mug of coffee in my hand. Don said things about the habits and routines, and I'm shaking them up, with continuosly less beer. Mornings without, afternoons without, two times a night without, and tonite will be just coffee. Fighting it Chy, that's why I'm on the boards tonite, I guess it's just past noon where you are. Something to do and a chance to think out loud.
Thanks for the big hug and mug,
Wiebe
Thanks for the big hug and mug,
Wiebe
Member
Join Date: May 2003
Location: El Paso, Tx
Posts: 5,862
Hi Weibe,
Glad to see your doing better today. You probably can't sleep because of all that coffee aye? *LOL* Coffee's good! You keep up the good work, keep fighting your gonna make it I know you will, one hour at a time, one day at a time my friend!
*scratches head trying to figure out time difference* ... maybe we can meet in the chat room here if I can figure out your schedule.
*hugs*
PS I've been meaning to ask you your nationality as your English is very good for a native of Holland < I am assuming your Danish, or am I mistaken?
Glad to see your doing better today. You probably can't sleep because of all that coffee aye? *LOL* Coffee's good! You keep up the good work, keep fighting your gonna make it I know you will, one hour at a time, one day at a time my friend!
*scratches head trying to figure out time difference* ... maybe we can meet in the chat room here if I can figure out your schedule.
*hugs*
PS I've been meaning to ask you your nationality as your English is very good for a native of Holland < I am assuming your Danish, or am I mistaken?
Member
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Northern CA
Posts: 1,432
Originally posted by wiebe lemstra
Hi Chy, GOT a big mug of coffee in my hand. Don said things about the habits and routines, and I'm shaking them up, with continuosly less beer. Mornings without, afternoons without, two times a night without, and tonite will be just coffee. Fighting it Chy, that's why I'm on the boards tonite, I guess it's just past noon where you are. Something to do and a chance to think out loud.
Thanks for the big hug and mug,
Wiebe
Hi Chy, GOT a big mug of coffee in my hand. Don said things about the habits and routines, and I'm shaking them up, with continuosly less beer. Mornings without, afternoons without, two times a night without, and tonite will be just coffee. Fighting it Chy, that's why I'm on the boards tonite, I guess it's just past noon where you are. Something to do and a chance to think out loud.
Thanks for the big hug and mug,
Wiebe
Enjoy your new coffeemaker and your new habits! One of the first things I did when I quit was to make a daily note of the money I would have spent that day on alcohol. Then I took the savings and spent them on some simple treats for myself and my kids--good ice cream, dinner out, or some really good coffee. Check out the Sulawesi or Garuda coffees at your local retailer...they've become favorites of mine. You didn't buy one of those fancy expresso makers, did you?
I made a point of trying to stop and notice the things I hadn't noticed for a long time. I try to get outside early in the morning, just to remind myself what a great time of the day it is when you're sober. In my case, since I'm a nurseryman and gardener, I literally stop and smell the roses! Or the lilies, almond blossoms, or tomatoes. Appreciating good coffee as a pleasure, rather than a way of jump-starting my fogged brain, is definitely one of those perks (pun intended) of sobriety.
It sounds as though you're tapering down steadily and doing well at it. Identifying the habitual drinking times and shaking them up was very effective for me. The next step was identifying what drinking did for me, and trying to find more effective ways of getting those purported benefits--or disputing whether they are really benefits at all! (Example: alcohol helps me sleep? Wrong! Passing out isn't very effective sleep...).
It's interesting how few benefits we can come up with for drinking! So, why on earth did we ever start? For most of us, by the time we decide we should quit drinking it has become such a firmly imprinted behavior that we do it automatically. So it can be hard to take a step back and look at what this drug is doing to our brain.
It is a depressant which relaxes certain parts of your brain functions. For some people it reduces anxiety, which can make them feel more effective in social situations. For others (business people like myself, for example) it allows us to stop "worrying" temporarily about all the many things we juggle at work and in our lives. On another forum board one individual frequently links her drinking to her anger. You mentioned life events over the last few years which I would describe as emotionally distressing, and I suspect it may be a way of coping with that.
The mechanical part of stopping drinking is pretty simple--you can stop cold turkey, or you can reduce gradually. For people who never drink, or who can drink moderately, it must seem like we're making a big deal out of that "simple" process. Get rid of what's in the house, don't buy any more, and stay out of places where it might be served. Support from others obviously enhances your commitment--meetings, forum boards, family and friends can all support your new decision. That's the stopping part. It's the staying stopped that defines long-term sobriety.
A lot of people--even long-time, heavy drinkers--can quit for a while. But folks in every recovery program often report lapses after days or weeks or months sober. So something has undermined the commitment. Some might say that it's because you let down your guard. In my opinion it is partly because you perceived, whether consciously or not, a benefit from drinking, and partly because you didn't plan for and practice for the urge.
When you've developed alternative ways of relaxing, or dealing with anxious situations, or whatever it is that alcohol "helps" you cope with, those urges can be easier to deal with. If you've changed your daily routine, the temptation is less likely to face you at familiar times. An hour on the forum board can replace an hour drinking in front of the TV!
The way you're doing it is very rational physiologically. It takes a lot of willpower--more, I think, than quitting cold turkey, because you're continuing to "dose" yourself with your medicine every day.
So that's why I keep asking what the benefit is--what is it that you're getting from the beer you're still drinking? Part of it is that your body wants it. Scientists would tell you that your dopamine receptors are still clamoring for it, so giving them (the receptors, that is) less and less can be an effective way to prepare them for abstinence. But I believe there must still be a psychological or emotional benefit to deal with.
Drinking is kind of like a love affair that you know you should end, but you keep going back for a little more....So perhaps it's time to say goodbye for good. No more last flings, not even just being friends....just a clean break, a firm goodbye, and no looking back....
I look forward to your daily posts, Wiebe! Congratulations, and thanks for posting.
Don S
Member
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Northern CA
Posts: 1,432
Originally posted by HarryH
snip
A ways back in some of the posts I had noticed some mention of smoking cigarettes and drinking coffee. And I believe it was mentioned that no one could recall if it was mentioned in the Big Book. I being a cigarette smoker and a drinker of coffee, managed to stumble on to it in the Big Book. And a friend of mine had said, leave it up to an alcoholic to find something in the Big Book to enable him to smoke cigarettes. So here it is:
Chapter 9...The Family Afterward; page 135, 2d paragraph.
"One of our friends is a heavy smoker and coffee drinker. There was no doubt he over-indulged. Seeing this, and meaning to be helpful, his wife commenced to admonish him about it. He admitted he was overdoing these things, but frankly said he was not ready to stop. His wife is one of those persons who really feels there is something rather sinful about these commodities, so she nagged and her intolerance finally threw him into a fit of anger. He got drunk.
Of course our friend was wrong----dead wrong. He had to painfully admit that and mend his spiritual fences. Though he is now a most effective member of Alcoholics Anonymous, he still smokes and drinks coffee, but neither his wife nor anyone else stands in judgement. She sees she was wrong to make a burning issue out of such a matter when his more serious ailments were being rapidly cured.
We have three little mottoes which are apropos. Here they are."
"First Things First"
"Live and Let Live"
"Easy Does It"
And one other that I find constant use for is "Keep It Simple"
My heart warming thanks goes out to all that have shared here and everyone trying to help. God Bless Everyone.
One Day At A Time.
Harry
snip
A ways back in some of the posts I had noticed some mention of smoking cigarettes and drinking coffee. And I believe it was mentioned that no one could recall if it was mentioned in the Big Book. I being a cigarette smoker and a drinker of coffee, managed to stumble on to it in the Big Book. And a friend of mine had said, leave it up to an alcoholic to find something in the Big Book to enable him to smoke cigarettes. So here it is:
Chapter 9...The Family Afterward; page 135, 2d paragraph.
"One of our friends is a heavy smoker and coffee drinker. There was no doubt he over-indulged. Seeing this, and meaning to be helpful, his wife commenced to admonish him about it. He admitted he was overdoing these things, but frankly said he was not ready to stop. His wife is one of those persons who really feels there is something rather sinful about these commodities, so she nagged and her intolerance finally threw him into a fit of anger. He got drunk.
Of course our friend was wrong----dead wrong. He had to painfully admit that and mend his spiritual fences. Though he is now a most effective member of Alcoholics Anonymous, he still smokes and drinks coffee, but neither his wife nor anyone else stands in judgement. She sees she was wrong to make a burning issue out of such a matter when his more serious ailments were being rapidly cured.
We have three little mottoes which are apropos. Here they are."
"First Things First"
"Live and Let Live"
"Easy Does It"
And one other that I find constant use for is "Keep It Simple"
My heart warming thanks goes out to all that have shared here and everyone trying to help. God Bless Everyone.
One Day At A Time.
Harry
I have to assume that the portion of the Big Book you're quoting was written before the Surgeon General's report about smoking and health! Smoking has certainly become "a burning issue" since then. Of course, I'm in California where smokers have to huddle like pariahs, outside in all weather, to get their dosage of nicotine. And people still glare at them. When I visit other states where people can still smoke inside I realize how lucky we are here.
I grew up with two heavy-smoking parents, and I can say that the long-term health consequences are no less dire than heavy drinking. My mom's throat cancer was far worse than anything her lifetime of drinking has caused. And the effects of their second-hand smoke affected me for years until I moved away. Isn't there some point after you've quit drinking when you can apply the same principles to your smoking?
I'm not trying to be argumentative. I just still don't understand why people who have developed such effective techniques for abstinence don't apply them to another unhealthy habit!
But leave my coffee alone!
I love the three mottoes. Thanks for posting.
Don S
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: the Netherlands
Posts: 141
Hi Chy no kidding about the coffee. The new pot and I are becoming buddies, but I went a little overboard. It's about 6-7 hours eirlier here,so, it's lunch time here and Central standard should be about 5 or 6 in the morning. Looked for you on the chat and met skyisfalling he said you usually come later which means way after midnight my time, so I probably won't see you tere much. The typing goes to fast for me anyway. I am Dutch but lived in Canada for a long time and have both passports. My English is better than my Dutch, but the typing and spelling is equally bad in both languages. Hi Moot, thanks.
Thanks for the post,
Wiebe
Thanks for the post,
Wiebe
Member
Join Date: May 2003
Location: El Paso, Tx
Posts: 5,862
Great post Don
Originally posted by Don S
Hey, Wiebe!
Drinking is kind of like a love affair that you know you should end, but you keep going back for a little more....So perhaps it's time to say goodbye for good. No more last flings, not even just being friends....just a clean break, a firm goodbye, and no looking back....
Hey, Wiebe!
Drinking is kind of like a love affair that you know you should end, but you keep going back for a little more....So perhaps it's time to say goodbye for good. No more last flings, not even just being friends....just a clean break, a firm goodbye, and no looking back....
Man Don that's the best it's been described for me! I wanna be you!
Weibe I'll keep checking in the chat on weekends maybe we'll run into each other! Your doing good, now do great!
Always here for ya!
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: the Netherlands
Posts: 141
Identifying the habitual drinking times and shaking them up was very effective for me. The next step was identifying what drinking did for me, and trying to find more effective ways of getting those purported benefits.
Don, I spent a whole day thinking about this half of the cost benefit analisys. Couldn't get past it the whole day long. What does it still give me? Couldn't name a single thing. Not anymore. The pleasant stuff vanished point for point over the years, and all that remains is the addiction. Think I overdosed on the coffee a bit last nite. Couldn't sleep all night but kept feeling something like an epilepsy attack coming on whenever I got close. Hope it was just the coffee. Yes I do smell the roses on the sober mornings. Coffee and sober mornings are wonderfull. Hope to see many more.
Thanks for writing
Wiebe
Don, I spent a whole day thinking about this half of the cost benefit analisys. Couldn't get past it the whole day long. What does it still give me? Couldn't name a single thing. Not anymore. The pleasant stuff vanished point for point over the years, and all that remains is the addiction. Think I overdosed on the coffee a bit last nite. Couldn't sleep all night but kept feeling something like an epilepsy attack coming on whenever I got close. Hope it was just the coffee. Yes I do smell the roses on the sober mornings. Coffee and sober mornings are wonderfull. Hope to see many more.
Thanks for writing
Wiebe
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
