RufusACanal

Thank you, Peter.

The Alcoholic has to make a decision to stop drinking. Many will hide behind anything to keep from making a decision to stop. How do I know? I was one. Hiding behind denial, hiding behind lack of faith, hiding behind mental illness, hiding behind anything that will insure that they have enough excuses and get enough attention to keep the excuse ridden, self pity machine running strong and thereby staying sick; sick Alcoholics have a reason to drink. Many Alcoholics look for the negatives instead of the positives; sad to say that many do not work the planned program of action contained in the first 164 pages of the book that is the basis text of our fellowship and still find fault with everything and everyone; you wonder why some folks in our fellowship become bitter? If they simply read the book, they would know that the Alcoholic will not stop drinking until they are either dead or done. So drink until you are full makes sense, why because they will anyway, I simply acknowledge the truth. For anyone to insinuate that my recognition of this process will in some way kill people is the most ludicrous thing I have recently heard. Staying sick is the priority not the exception with these Alcoholics and the better the excuse for staying sick the more justification that recovery does not work.

tiburon88

Rufus,
Are you saying that some people hide behind mental illness so they can continue to drink? That is unbelievable, however, it doesn't surprise me you said it. Mental illness is as real as a disease as alcoholism. The Big Book and the AA program does nothing to relieve real mental illness.

tiburon

freshstart

I can find a million excuses to never go back to AA. I can find a million excuses to use. i can find a million excuses to not go to church. I can find an excuse to do or not do anything. Just sayin. If i want recovery I'll do anything to find it and keep it.

warrens

Wow, mine is response #102 to this thread. Amazing.

While some posts are heated, I think all contributors to this thread are well meaning. I think all simply wish Tiburon serenity and sobriety.

We all come from our own particular experience and success or lack of it. I think most of us have observed more addicts over time than the average person. Based upon that experience we come to conclusions regarding the treatment of addiction.

If we are honest, I think we can point to incredible success stories and tragic failures regardless of the approach an addict takes. I do think we all have a "lock" somewhere within us for which there is a key. Some of us find it, some don't.

AA and it's model of addiction is beyond brilliant, I think. It can and has worked miracles. It is a key. Does it however, fit everyone's particular "lock?"

An approach to addiction can only improve the addict's life if we accept it thoroughly. God knows we have intimate experience with failure. We learn to drive because we believe we can. We must also believe that we can recover.

Tough love works with some, but not all people. First, it has to be perceived as actual love as opposed to yet another example of disgust. We are far too familiar with disgust. We disgust ourselves and most everyone around us.

I think I know only one thing to be true. That regardless of what approach one uses, one must go through a thorough "first step." I must revisit the first step daily. I believe that any relapse or failure is the result of not fully accepting that we are powerless; that we are not "normal;" that our involvement with substance is truly insane; that our life is unmanageable. My relapses can be traced to not fully accepting one of the above. Usually it is the result of thinking that I can once again be "normal."

While I believe that AA can be a lifesaver, I think that pushing it on some people who are drowning is like hitting them over the head with a 900 lb. life preserver. Perhaps we should focus on getting them to simply accept that they need one.

Tiburon, I care about you. Tear down the obstacles and seize the opportunities to get well. Accept that you are sick. Accept that people do indeed get well. Listen to them as they relate the quality of life they now enjoy. Know that they are not all people who have "shrines" to their higher power in their home. It is not some kind of mysticism that you cannot grasp or accept.

AA is not some external "tune up" facility that we go to for a "service." It is a set of principles that must be internalized. The meetings are simply to aid in that process. So is SR. So is inpatient and outpatient therapy. None will work until we accept that we are dying on our own and that we can and will become healthy only by abandoning some of our deeply held attitudes toward life and living.

Be well, Tiburon. I don't care what you do to get well. Work the first step however, until you cry. I have heard a million debates about AA, but I have yet to hear one that refutes with any legitimacy, the first step.

warren

Tazman53

Tib you are totally correct, and the BB in more then one spot says just that, AA deals with alcoholism and that is it, it suggests that alcoholics see therapists, psychiatrist, and doctors for problems other then alcoholism. Any one in AA that says otherwise is not speaking program but simply stating thier opinion.

Straight from the book:

The one thing I had to keep in mind in my recovery was that when dealing with my recovery from alcohol that my way did not work, I had to be willing to follow the suggestions of other sober alcoholics who knew far more then me about not only staying sober, but how to be happy being sober.

The one thing I keep in mind when dealing with my mental and physical health issues is that I have not been to 4 years of pre-med, 4 years of medical school and then done a 3-6 year internship, as a result when a doctor prescribes me something I take it as directed and if he tells me DON NOT DRINK while taking this, I don't drink while taking it!

But then again I have quit drinking, as a result when a doctor prescribes me meds they do just what they are designed to do.

BackToSquareOne

Tib, many people suffer from mental illness such as anxiety/depression, these are seperate issues and should be dealt with by qualified medical professionals. I don't think anyone here suggested that AA or any other addictions treatment program were set up to deal with those conditions. It's sad but many use alcohol and drugs to self treat anxiety/depression and find themselves on a merry-go-round that they can never get off of. If you have severe clinical depression or anxiety problems and you simply quit drinking then the problems will still be there and without the alcohol you were using to self medicate they may get even worse and you'll find yourself jumping right back on the merry-go-round.

Part of the problem seems to be that alcoholism in and of itself can cause anxiety/depression issues, so it can be hard to tell which came first the chicken or the egg. Many quit drinking and see their mental health issues all disappear because their problems were mostly a byproduct of their alcoholism but this is not the case for everyone. Just remember that if you do have serious mental health issues then you must seek out qualified professionals to deal with those things as simply stopping alcohol is not always enough.

RufusACanal

Tib,

I too, take mental health medication, prescribed by a Doctor. If I do not take my medication, if I do not report my thinking and behavior, treport the effects of the medication on my mood or I stop taking medication without the Doctor's authorization, I will at some point return to drinking as self medication. I understand that AA does not address mental illness, but it does address honesty, Honesty allows me to look at myself and to treat myself in a more healthy fashion than ever before. If I choose to remain sick I will. If I blame everyone else for my problems I will never get or stay well.

You are a very bright and articulate young man. You can succeed if you do not give up.

caitlin666

i too do not like many things about the AA doctrine, however i do feel comfortable with the members, feel like im not alone.

i do not do the steps have no sponsor, i just need the group support.

i attend to help me in my sobriety, as they say, take what i need and leave the rest.

tiburon88

Thanks everyone I feel as if this thread has been going on forever. I think I wil take a break from SR for a while. I will work on the fact that AA helps many & I do not need to bash the program.

tiburon