The curse of the remedy
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 49
The curse of the remedy
I'm always curious as to why so many people are reticent to embrace the spiritual solution to alcoholism.
We know if a person stops drinking, they are *dry* or abstinent, but not sober, as in sober thinking. At least, in my experience, a person who simply quits yet does not address the emotional/spiritual malady, they will continue to live with the "ism's" of the disease and find no peace.
So...when there is a "prescription" available to heal the disease of alcoholism..ie: 12 step support, helping others, finding a higher power....people are so turned off to it, and reject it.
Yet, when we go to the doctor to heal the cancer that will kill as just as ferverently as alcoholism, we gratefully accept the harsh drugs, even embrace them, as we know they will save our life.
Seems many people are more apt to accept a "drug" to heal, rather than an invisible, intangible form of medication. Even when it proves to be quite effective when "taken" correctly.
Thoughts?
We know if a person stops drinking, they are *dry* or abstinent, but not sober, as in sober thinking. At least, in my experience, a person who simply quits yet does not address the emotional/spiritual malady, they will continue to live with the "ism's" of the disease and find no peace.
So...when there is a "prescription" available to heal the disease of alcoholism..ie: 12 step support, helping others, finding a higher power....people are so turned off to it, and reject it.
Yet, when we go to the doctor to heal the cancer that will kill as just as ferverently as alcoholism, we gratefully accept the harsh drugs, even embrace them, as we know they will save our life.
Seems many people are more apt to accept a "drug" to heal, rather than an invisible, intangible form of medication. Even when it proves to be quite effective when "taken" correctly.
Thoughts?
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,876
"We know if a person stops drinking, they are *dry* or abstinent, but not sober, as in sober thinking. At least, in my experience, a person who simply quits yet does not address the emotional/spiritual malady, they will continue to live with the "ism's" of the disease and find no peace."
Thoughts?
Nonsense.
Thoughts?
Nonsense.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 165
To make assumptions that a person who rejects the twelve steps isn't spiritual and/or capable of sober thinking just because they have found success using other methods, seems to be dry drunk thinking. How does the saying go, "keep your own side of the street clean"?
If you've found success in AA, I'm happy for you. If others have found success without AA using other methods/programs, at the very least, please don't be judgmental.
If you've found success in AA, I'm happy for you. If others have found success without AA using other methods/programs, at the very least, please don't be judgmental.
Knucklehead
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Davenport, WA
Posts: 4,005
I just don't hold any spiritual beliefs and don't believe in what you claim to be reality. I do agree that for some, myself included, emotional issues and any mood or anxiety disorders must be addressed to achieve any degree of stability.
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,876
Tib, your post hurts...I can feel it and I am sorry you are feeling let down. While I do not pretend to know your pain or of the incidents of which you speak I do know that addicts are not alone with trust issues especially in regards to God. Sobriety however, in my opinion, has very little to do with God and everything to do with re-managing your life.
Do not let your focus drift from the problem at hand....drinking alcohol will eventually kill you, kill me and anyone who allows it. DO NOT hand over your power and give up...take it back my friend, I did it and so can you.
Do not let your focus drift from the problem at hand....drinking alcohol will eventually kill you, kill me and anyone who allows it. DO NOT hand over your power and give up...take it back my friend, I did it and so can you.
Life the gift of recovery!
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Home is where the heart is
Posts: 7,061
My answer to your question of is quite simple. Not everyone's experiences with organized religion have been positive ones. I for one would never have accepted a spiritual solution if I had not had someone explain there is a difference between spirituality and religion. Today I am a little more open to the religion aspects but still do not consider myself religious. I feel no need to prophesize, worship, follow traditions/rules, etc....
I also recognize that a spiritual solution is not the only way to get sober. There are people here who have significant time sober (and appear to be quite healthy and happy) who do not use a 12 step program to maintain their sobriety. Personally, I am grateful I found a 12 step program and feel it definately saved my life.
why so many people are reticent to embrace the spiritual solution to alcoholism
I also recognize that a spiritual solution is not the only way to get sober. There are people here who have significant time sober (and appear to be quite healthy and happy) who do not use a 12 step program to maintain their sobriety. Personally, I am grateful I found a 12 step program and feel it definately saved my life.
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Northern CA
Posts: 1,733
"We know if a person stops drinking, they are *dry* or abstinent, but not sober, as in sober thinking. At least, in my experience, a person who simply quits yet does not address the emotional/spiritual malady, they will continue to live with the "ism's" of the disease and find no peace."
Thoughts?
Nonsense.
Thoughts?
Nonsense.
If you've found success in AA, I'm happy for you. If others have found success without AA using other methods/programs, at the very least, please don't be judgmental.
I couldn't have said it better myself.
Your reality isn't my reality.
Your attitude, not your aptitude, will determine your altitude
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Oxnard (The Nard), CA, USA.
Posts: 13,949
Originally Posted by Reality 
So...when there is a "prescription" available to heal the disease of alcoholism..ie: 12 step support, helping others, finding a higher power....people are so turned off to it, and reject it.
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Join Date: Jul 2008
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"Yet, when we go to the doctor to heal the cancer that will kill as just as ferverently as alcoholism, we gratefully accept the harsh drugs, even embrace them, as we know they will save our life."
Science verses Religion? This is an old one. I have a pretty "logical" mind (in that logic appeals to me, not that I am a logical person - no logical person would drink like me!). In my mind Science, the medicine, is proven. I can see the tablets, and see the results. I can physically touch the machines. Religion isn't physical - I can't see God, or touch spirituality. So for me I wouldn't say that religion is "medicine". You can't take two hail marys and get rid of your headache. Religion is a deep personal choice - you can take medicine without believing it will work, and it will. You can't force a religion on someone and it'll suddenly work.
At the end of the day - If the doctors could prescrive a pill that magically took away the urge to drink or use I don't think any of us would say no.
It's great that people have sucess with AA, but there's no reason to tell those of us who don't that we will never be sober, only dry drunks.
Science verses Religion? This is an old one. I have a pretty "logical" mind (in that logic appeals to me, not that I am a logical person - no logical person would drink like me!). In my mind Science, the medicine, is proven. I can see the tablets, and see the results. I can physically touch the machines. Religion isn't physical - I can't see God, or touch spirituality. So for me I wouldn't say that religion is "medicine". You can't take two hail marys and get rid of your headache. Religion is a deep personal choice - you can take medicine without believing it will work, and it will. You can't force a religion on someone and it'll suddenly work.
At the end of the day - If the doctors could prescrive a pill that magically took away the urge to drink or use I don't think any of us would say no.
It's great that people have sucess with AA, but there's no reason to tell those of us who don't that we will never be sober, only dry drunks.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 49
Originally Posted by bugsworth
"We know if a person stops drinking, they are *dry* or abstinent, but not sober, as in sober thinking. At least, in my experience, a person who simply quits yet does not address the emotional/spiritual malady, they will continue to live with the "ism's" of the disease and find no peace."
Thoughts?
Nonsense.
Thoughts?
Nonsense.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 49
Originally Posted by AnthonyV
To make assumptions that a person who rejects the twelve steps isn't spiritual and/or capable of sober thinking just because they have found success using other methods, seems to be dry drunk thinking. How does the saying go, "keep your own side of the street clean"?
If you've found success in AA, I'm happy for you. If others have found success without AA using other methods/programs, at the very least, please don't be judgmental.
If you've found success in AA, I'm happy for you. If others have found success without AA using other methods/programs, at the very least, please don't be judgmental.
Why so defensive?
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 49
Wow..very surprised here at the intense reaction my post has caused. Seems that Ive touched a few nerves.
My experience, and that of all I have read about alcoholism, is that its a physically, mental and spiritual illness.
The cessation of drinking can alleviate the physical assault to the body, but what alleviates the spiritual assualt to the mind, if not a spiritual approach, to be relieved of the "ism's", which I believe cause resentments, fear, hatred etc?
My experience, and that of all I have read about alcoholism, is that its a physically, mental and spiritual illness.
The cessation of drinking can alleviate the physical assault to the body, but what alleviates the spiritual assualt to the mind, if not a spiritual approach, to be relieved of the "ism's", which I believe cause resentments, fear, hatred etc?
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 49
Originally Posted by bugsworth
Sorry Reality I thought I was fairly clear. I'll try again....
Rubbish.
Rubbish.
Was hoping for some clear, thoughtful insight into your opinion. Guess that's the best you can do, so I wish you a great day!
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