Compete honesty...
Guest
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Birmingham, AL
Posts: 1,924
Originally Posted by jjaaam 
Rufus,
I am not debating what you said. I KNOW that the truth is always better than a lie.
I just can't rationalize destroying not only my wife but my kids, my in-laws, my parents...over one slip up.
Put yourself in my situation. Would you really risk losing everything you have for the sake of following the program?
I am pretty damn sure that is what would happen. It wouldn't be a matter of her just getting pissed at me. I think she has gotten beyond that point.
This is just like a friend of mine that is in the program. He told me that he cheated on his wife a few times...and that he has no intention of ever telling her. He regrets it immensely and says he will never do it again. What would the point be in telling her? Would it really do any good? Sure, he would get it off his chest, but at what cost to others?
The thing is, this person seems to me to be one of the strongest AA'ers out there right now; he follows the program to the point of almost complete obsession.
Maybe I am wrong, but I don't think that you could ever be 10000000% honest with everyone about everything. My wife and I even discussed this recently.
Things have not been the best for us during the last few years. There were periods when we were definitely going to split up. For whatever reason I told her things that really hurt her feelings, and she will be scarred for life. She said that there were a few things that she does not like about me that she will NEVER tell me, just for the sake of not hurting my feelings. Sure, I wonder what they are...but I have decided not to press her on it.
I am not debating what you said. I KNOW that the truth is always better than a lie.
I just can't rationalize destroying not only my wife but my kids, my in-laws, my parents...over one slip up.
Put yourself in my situation. Would you really risk losing everything you have for the sake of following the program?
I am pretty damn sure that is what would happen. It wouldn't be a matter of her just getting pissed at me. I think she has gotten beyond that point.
This is just like a friend of mine that is in the program. He told me that he cheated on his wife a few times...and that he has no intention of ever telling her. He regrets it immensely and says he will never do it again. What would the point be in telling her? Would it really do any good? Sure, he would get it off his chest, but at what cost to others?
The thing is, this person seems to me to be one of the strongest AA'ers out there right now; he follows the program to the point of almost complete obsession.
Maybe I am wrong, but I don't think that you could ever be 10000000% honest with everyone about everything. My wife and I even discussed this recently.
Things have not been the best for us during the last few years. There were periods when we were definitely going to split up. For whatever reason I told her things that really hurt her feelings, and she will be scarred for life. She said that there were a few things that she does not like about me that she will NEVER tell me, just for the sake of not hurting my feelings. Sure, I wonder what they are...but I have decided not to press her on it.
Ok, Cool. Do as you think best. I not only think you can be 100% honest, but in order to build personal intregrity, I think you must be. When you begin to compromise your intregrity why not go ahead and drink? To me it is the same old ideas, the same old behavior. All of your examples are bologna; this is about you not others in the program. When you decide to trust in a Higher Power instead of trying to be one, life situations like this will be eliminated.
Let me spell it out so there is no mistaking my beliefs; I act as if my Wife can read my mind. Do I fall from the beam in my behavior, yes, do I tell her, yes. Why? Because that is a promise I made during our Wedding vows, it is what love in marriage represents. In this new life, honest is my only real currency in trade, why would I give that up?
You are not unique. Get honest or not, your decision. Best to you!
It`s ok to stay sober
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Central NC
Posts: 20,902
well,I believe step 9 has nothing to do with this situation cause you have not harmed her ...yet
but I do have several questions for you
question number one-how long do you think you are going to stay sober with all that crap bugging you?
Besides,she will know something is wrong,believe me,the girls will know...I have been there before
question number 2-are you willing to go to any lengths to get sober and stay sober?
you are worried about your wife leaving you,but you ought to be worried about living and dying,because alcoholism will kill you
might want to get your priorities in order
but I do have several questions for you
question number one-how long do you think you are going to stay sober with all that crap bugging you?
Besides,she will know something is wrong,believe me,the girls will know...I have been there before
question number 2-are you willing to go to any lengths to get sober and stay sober?
you are worried about your wife leaving you,but you ought to be worried about living and dying,because alcoholism will kill you
might want to get your priorities in order
Another Day in Paradise
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Upland, CA
Posts: 900
“Would I tell on myself knowing that I would get fired just for the sake of being "honest"?
-jjaaam
I really don't care what you do with regard to telling the wife or not, that is between you and her, but I do hate to see the logic that is being misapplied.
Your quote that seeks to rationalize "being honest" as somehow being the source of damage to you or others is flawed on its face!
You would not get fired for being honest; you would potentially get fired for your misdeed. You will not have the problem with your wife, family, or anyone else for "being honest", you will POTENTIALY have the problem because you drank and misused the wife and family’s trust that you would not drink.
There is no conflict between honesty and results; on the contrary it is between DISHONESTY (including lies by omission) and the representation of whom and what we are. Your reference to the 9TH step is not to protect you from the discoveries of others, but rather if your "honesty" drags an uninvolved individual, such as the spouse of a person with whom you cheated into the damage.
I am not passing judgment on you, you are absolutely free to reveal or hide any action you want, but don't delude yourself that you are doing so for the "noble" cause of protecting others. Simply said, you don't want to jeopardize your relationship with your wife because you don't want to lose her!
jjaaam, hell man you are human and you did a dumb thing. You are obviously sorry and you obviously love your wife and don't want to lose her. What if you told her that and that you are learning this sobriety thing one day at a time? Do you RESPECT her enough to tell her the truth or are you "protecting" her because you don't trust her enough to place her trust in your sincerity in really being sorry and trying to be better next time.
I suppose it really comes down to WHEN does being honest become a part time behavior? Are we going to be honest tomorrow, just like we are going to "quit drinking" tomorrow? Webster’s Dictionary says HONESTY: adherence to the facts: freedom from subterfuge or duplicity. It doesn't place conditions on the behavior or a time that it is practiced and a time that it is not.
In closing let me share this with you. The above rant is almost verbatim what I was told several years ago by my sponsor when I was preparing to protect someone from my drinking. That individual listened to my TRUTH and rolled her eyes and told me how worthless I was, but then added, "AT LEAST YOU ARE LEARNING TO ACT LIKE A MAN INSTEAD OF HIDING YOUR DRINKING." Her support was invaluable in helping me to finally face my problem sometime later.
I realize this sounds like a lecture and perhaps it is, but it is the truth.
Jon
-jjaaam
I really don't care what you do with regard to telling the wife or not, that is between you and her, but I do hate to see the logic that is being misapplied.
Your quote that seeks to rationalize "being honest" as somehow being the source of damage to you or others is flawed on its face!
You would not get fired for being honest; you would potentially get fired for your misdeed. You will not have the problem with your wife, family, or anyone else for "being honest", you will POTENTIALY have the problem because you drank and misused the wife and family’s trust that you would not drink.
There is no conflict between honesty and results; on the contrary it is between DISHONESTY (including lies by omission) and the representation of whom and what we are. Your reference to the 9TH step is not to protect you from the discoveries of others, but rather if your "honesty" drags an uninvolved individual, such as the spouse of a person with whom you cheated into the damage.
I am not passing judgment on you, you are absolutely free to reveal or hide any action you want, but don't delude yourself that you are doing so for the "noble" cause of protecting others. Simply said, you don't want to jeopardize your relationship with your wife because you don't want to lose her!
jjaaam, hell man you are human and you did a dumb thing. You are obviously sorry and you obviously love your wife and don't want to lose her. What if you told her that and that you are learning this sobriety thing one day at a time? Do you RESPECT her enough to tell her the truth or are you "protecting" her because you don't trust her enough to place her trust in your sincerity in really being sorry and trying to be better next time.
I suppose it really comes down to WHEN does being honest become a part time behavior? Are we going to be honest tomorrow, just like we are going to "quit drinking" tomorrow? Webster’s Dictionary says HONESTY: adherence to the facts: freedom from subterfuge or duplicity. It doesn't place conditions on the behavior or a time that it is practiced and a time that it is not.
In closing let me share this with you. The above rant is almost verbatim what I was told several years ago by my sponsor when I was preparing to protect someone from my drinking. That individual listened to my TRUTH and rolled her eyes and told me how worthless I was, but then added, "AT LEAST YOU ARE LEARNING TO ACT LIKE A MAN INSTEAD OF HIDING YOUR DRINKING." Her support was invaluable in helping me to finally face my problem sometime later.
I realize this sounds like a lecture and perhaps it is, but it is the truth.
Jon
Member
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 410
It kind of sounds like you are walking on eggshells at home. If so, I'm sorry. I hope you are not at the point that one mishap, which you feel guilty about, amended and were honest about would mean the end. It's up to you, but by posting a thread, discussing with other people at meeting and your sponsor... why let it eat at you. Be honest, see what happens. Someone who knows your non-drinking side, who I assume she has been seeing for 2.5 months, should be learning to understand the difficulties and efforts that you have already overcome. Forgiveness is a sign of trust, and I'd hope she would have both.
On the other hand, IF she does find out and you were not honest... well... that's probably a guaranteed negative result.
The decision is still yours.
On the other hand, IF she does find out and you were not honest... well... that's probably a guaranteed negative result.
The decision is still yours.
where the light is
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 2,763
Personally, I would tell my wife but I know that something like this would not result in divorce. While my wife would be disappointed and concerned, she knows enough about the nature of alcoholism to appreciate how difficult it is to quit. As long as I didn’t give up, I believe that I would eventually be forgiven.
There are other things that I have kept from my loved ones. I have talked these situations over with my sponsor and he basically thought that I would only be making myself feel better at the expense of others. My sponsor knows many details about my relationships and situation and can provide objective advice. He also tells me to pray for the right answer and for forgiveness.
I am wondering if this, in part, falls under steps 4 and 5? One of my major character defects is dishonesty. I only found this out how big of a problem it is by doing step 4. I also had to be selective in choosing who I did my step 5 with:
“We often find such a person quick to see and understand our problem. Of course, we sometimes encounter people who do not understand alcoholics.
If we cannot or would rather not do this, we search our acquaintance for a close-mouthed, understanding friend. Perhaps our doctor or psychologist will be the person. It may be one of our own family, but we cannot disclose anything to our wives or our parents which will hurt them and make them unhappy. We have no right to save our own skin at another person's expense. Such parts of our story we tell to someone who will understand, yet be unaffected. The rule is we must be hard on ourself, but always considerate of others.”
I would love to be able to say that I am a completely honest person but this would be a lie. I still find myself withholding information or my thoughts from co-workers (don’t want to create conflict) and my spouse (don’t want to hurt her feelings). I also take advantage of my employer to some degree (eg. Taking extended lunches, playing on the internet when I should be working). For me, it’s a work in progress.
If I were in your shoes, I would go with the advice of my sponsor. He knows your specific situation, has experience, and is more objective. While I do believe that honesty is the best policy, I still have to check my motives and ask myself at what cost?
All BB quotes are from the First Edition of the BB
There are other things that I have kept from my loved ones. I have talked these situations over with my sponsor and he basically thought that I would only be making myself feel better at the expense of others. My sponsor knows many details about my relationships and situation and can provide objective advice. He also tells me to pray for the right answer and for forgiveness.
I am wondering if this, in part, falls under steps 4 and 5? One of my major character defects is dishonesty. I only found this out how big of a problem it is by doing step 4. I also had to be selective in choosing who I did my step 5 with:
“We often find such a person quick to see and understand our problem. Of course, we sometimes encounter people who do not understand alcoholics.
If we cannot or would rather not do this, we search our acquaintance for a close-mouthed, understanding friend. Perhaps our doctor or psychologist will be the person. It may be one of our own family, but we cannot disclose anything to our wives or our parents which will hurt them and make them unhappy. We have no right to save our own skin at another person's expense. Such parts of our story we tell to someone who will understand, yet be unaffected. The rule is we must be hard on ourself, but always considerate of others.”
I would love to be able to say that I am a completely honest person but this would be a lie. I still find myself withholding information or my thoughts from co-workers (don’t want to create conflict) and my spouse (don’t want to hurt her feelings). I also take advantage of my employer to some degree (eg. Taking extended lunches, playing on the internet when I should be working). For me, it’s a work in progress.
If I were in your shoes, I would go with the advice of my sponsor. He knows your specific situation, has experience, and is more objective. While I do believe that honesty is the best policy, I still have to check my motives and ask myself at what cost?
All BB quotes are from the First Edition of the BB
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,416
You would not get fired for being honest; you would potentially get fired for your misdeed. You will not have the problem with your wife, family, or anyone else for "being honest", you will POTENTIALY have the problem because you drank and misused the wife and family’s trust that you would not drink.
I'm not suggesting you do anything jjaaam - I simply detailed what I would do - but lets not BS here...whatever may or may not happen happens because you screwed up. All these motivations about not wanting to hurt anyone are a bit late, aren't they? Your wife's already been hurt - she just doesn't know it yet...probably.
I've been here - it's something we're all a drink away from - but I wouldn't compound the problem.
I'd man up. Your marriage sure as hell won't be saved if she finds out from someone else first.
D
bona fido dog-lover
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: SF Bay area, CA
Posts: 99,772
Wow! You're really in a jam aren't you? I can't speak for your wife but as for myself I would always take honesty over any attempt to 'protect' my feelings. My feelings would be a whole lot madder and a whole lot more disappointed to find out from someone else that my spouse had fallen off the wagon. I can see your dilemma. You are afraid she'll leave you for drinking when you were staying sober. But don't you think she'd be just as inclined to leave you for being dishonest with her? Speaking only for myself, I would rather hear the awful truth from my husband/bf/whoever than from a third party... cause hearing it from someone else means that hubby has been hiding it from me. And that would really p!ss me off. Much more than the slip itself, the dishonesty would put me into a state of shock and grave disappointment.
All I know is what you've told. I don't know you or your wife or your current situation. I only know what I would want, if I were in her place. As Shakespeare put it, "to thine own self be true, and it will follow... thou can'st not then be false to any man." Smart man, Will.
just my opinion
All I know is what you've told. I don't know you or your wife or your current situation. I only know what I would want, if I were in her place. As Shakespeare put it, "to thine own self be true, and it will follow... thou can'st not then be false to any man." Smart man, Will.
just my opinion
Eddie Van Halen wannabe
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Gaines, Michigan
Posts: 51
jfanagle:
"Your quote that seeks to rationalize "being honest" as somehow being the source of damage to you or others is flawed on its face!
You would not get fired for being honest; you would potentially get fired for your misdeed. You will not have the problem with your wife, family, or anyone else for "being honest", you will POTENTIALY have the problem because you drank and misused the wife and family’s trust that you would not drink."
No ****. I'm not stupid.
I'm not saying that being honest is the source of the damage. Read my posts. I KNOW that I screwed up. I am NOT trying to simply get away with it.
Hell, if that was the case then I would be drinking all the time and not even trying to get better, right?
It's kind of amazing to me that everyone here is just so damn righteous and perfect. You all can't tell me that you don't have any skeletons in the closet. Maybe not about drinking, but about other things.
I applaud everyone that can be that honest.
My situation is about alcohol, true enough, but I think this TOPIC relates to a hell of a lot more than just that.
Look, sorry for the rant. I'm just pissed at myself about the whole thing, that's all.
"Your quote that seeks to rationalize "being honest" as somehow being the source of damage to you or others is flawed on its face!
You would not get fired for being honest; you would potentially get fired for your misdeed. You will not have the problem with your wife, family, or anyone else for "being honest", you will POTENTIALY have the problem because you drank and misused the wife and family’s trust that you would not drink."
No ****. I'm not stupid.
I'm not saying that being honest is the source of the damage. Read my posts. I KNOW that I screwed up. I am NOT trying to simply get away with it.
Hell, if that was the case then I would be drinking all the time and not even trying to get better, right?
It's kind of amazing to me that everyone here is just so damn righteous and perfect. You all can't tell me that you don't have any skeletons in the closet. Maybe not about drinking, but about other things.
I applaud everyone that can be that honest.
My situation is about alcohol, true enough, but I think this TOPIC relates to a hell of a lot more than just that.
Look, sorry for the rant. I'm just pissed at myself about the whole thing, that's all.
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,416
I know you addressed your remarks to Jon, but I'll take advantage of my timezone
I'm not righteous or perfect jjaaam - I've made a lot of mistakes to get where I am, you know?
I got a lot of 'shoulda dones' - all I offer is opinions and advice borne of experience - and you know what they say about opinions....
they're like kittens and sometimes you can't give them away.
I hope it all works out.
D
I'm not righteous or perfect jjaaam - I've made a lot of mistakes to get where I am, you know?
I got a lot of 'shoulda dones' - all I offer is opinions and advice borne of experience - and you know what they say about opinions....
they're like kittens and sometimes you can't give them away.
I hope it all works out.
D
Guest
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Birmingham, AL
Posts: 1,924
jjaaam,
You have courage my friend to stand here and tell us what you have. Of course I have crap in my closet; isn't that where you keep it?
Your new life is more than not drinking, true?
Use the same courage you have displayed here in all of your affairs. You can do it!
You have courage my friend to stand here and tell us what you have. Of course I have crap in my closet; isn't that where you keep it?
Your new life is more than not drinking, true? Use the same courage you have displayed here in all of your affairs. You can do it!
Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 26,425
well....I feel compelled to post again....
I have 2 questions I ask myself when I want to tell someone the "truth"...Is it the truth? and is it helpful?
One of my expereinces....I was honest and told some people about a situation. It was was the truth, and put a stop to a lot of lies in my life and the lives of others. This truth was about someone elses actions....It was their actions that "caused the problem" not my honesty...HOWEVER....My honesty ended up truley harming a half a dozen people in a very very bad way. If I had said nothing, that harm would not have happened. Because of my action of honesty...others were harmed badly.
I made the decision to be honest based on what I believed at the time. I'm ok with that, but might not make the same decision today.
A lot of people have walked across the room to let me know the "truth" and be "honest" in cases where doing so was not helpful to them, to me or to anyone else...they just got a glow from "being honest".
To have concerns about others when I am considering being honest about something is a very helpful thing for me. If I drink again, I would probably choose to tell my family because although it hurts them, the damage of finding out later some other way or from someone else would be too great. I would not tell my boss. Frankly, she doesn't even think it is any of her business...my work is her business (though she is very supportive of my sobriety).
God....almost everything I say seems like a lie later down the road...and honesty is definately not my stron suit.
I have 2 questions I ask myself when I want to tell someone the "truth"...Is it the truth? and is it helpful?
One of my expereinces....I was honest and told some people about a situation. It was was the truth, and put a stop to a lot of lies in my life and the lives of others. This truth was about someone elses actions....It was their actions that "caused the problem" not my honesty...HOWEVER....My honesty ended up truley harming a half a dozen people in a very very bad way. If I had said nothing, that harm would not have happened. Because of my action of honesty...others were harmed badly.
I made the decision to be honest based on what I believed at the time. I'm ok with that, but might not make the same decision today.
A lot of people have walked across the room to let me know the "truth" and be "honest" in cases where doing so was not helpful to them, to me or to anyone else...they just got a glow from "being honest".
To have concerns about others when I am considering being honest about something is a very helpful thing for me. If I drink again, I would probably choose to tell my family because although it hurts them, the damage of finding out later some other way or from someone else would be too great. I would not tell my boss. Frankly, she doesn't even think it is any of her business...my work is her business (though she is very supportive of my sobriety).
God....almost everything I say seems like a lie later down the road...and honesty is definately not my stron suit.
Eddie Van Halen wannabe
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Gaines, Michigan
Posts: 51
Hey, I'm sorry for getting grumpy.
I'm just pissed off. Not just because of this situation.
Why me? Why do I have this disease? Why am I going to have to fight it for the rest of my life? Why can't I just be the person I am supposed to be?
It's not fair.
I'm just pissed off. Not just because of this situation.
Why me? Why do I have this disease? Why am I going to have to fight it for the rest of my life? Why can't I just be the person I am supposed to be?
It's not fair.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Eh? :)
Posts: 1,410
Personally, I believe that if your wife leaves you, it isn't just because of THIS ONE TIME...but an accumulation of things she's gone through during the entirety of your relationship. No one breaks up because of one event...it's usually an accumulation of many things that culminated in one event. If the number one thing your wife wants from you is honesty...then she very well could end things with you because you were dishonest by not telling her about this event! Or, she could end things because of the fact you drank while on the medicine.
The fact is, that is HER decision to make, not yours. You need to get and STAY sober for yourself, or it will never work. She needs to make decisions for what is best for her, not just for you as a couple. I hope things work out the way that you want as well, but regardless, this is another thing life throws at us that must be dealt with...and can ONLY be dealt with while sober.
Best wishes to you.
The fact is, that is HER decision to make, not yours. You need to get and STAY sober for yourself, or it will never work. She needs to make decisions for what is best for her, not just for you as a couple. I hope things work out the way that you want as well, but regardless, this is another thing life throws at us that must be dealt with...and can ONLY be dealt with while sober.
Best wishes to you.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,697
jjaam - I don't know if you should tell your wife or not, I have never been married (yet) and there really wasn't much information given about why your wife would leave you if she found out (maybe I don't see how she is harmed by her choice to leave you). The whole post seems to be about fear rather than honesty. You know - the WHAT IF?? We acloholics are very good at building fear - once the nature of my fears was revealed to me (I won't tell you here what that is - you will find out yourself if you are working the steps - which I assume you are as you stated you have a sponsor whom you are honest with. I truly would not want to ruin that experience for you - the base of all my fears) - they lost a lot of power over me.
Maybe ask yourself - Would she want to know if you drank again? If yes - what is the best way that this news could be delivered to her?
I find, that when I harbor a secret, it just puts more cr@p on the pile between me and that power which I need to recover (yes recover) from alcoholism. This is for you to decide - my only suggestion is to pray about it.
The reason I replied was your last post - "Why me, etc etc" - that is some really good stuff to put in the first column of your fourth step. I believe, as has been my experience, that when I stopped fighting and moved into acceptance, life became a lot less complicated (I do not fight alcoholism anymore - this is absolutely true). The 'WHY' of this disease - doesn't really matter much anymore (to me), other than the fact that BECAUSE I am alcoholic, I can be of help to suffering alcoholics when no one else can. Maybe that is the only reason why - but it is not something that weighs on me anymore. I stopped being a victim somewhere in my stepwork, not really sure exactly where - but it's GONE.
I believe that you will be the person you are supposed to be once you give up trying to decide what that is. I don't mean that to sound harsh - because I felt a lot of guilt and shame too, it's natural in the healing process. When I was willing to put aside "my plans" and "my vision" - things seemed to come together and I came to be at peace with exactly who I am - a child of this universe who knows not where his life will lead, I am along for the ride- not calling the shots, or even trying to most of the time (not fighting).
This is recovery from alcoholism - it's about a lot more than not drinking alcohol - it's about being the person who are supposed to be and only God can make that decision - whatever God may mean to you.
Take care, say a prayer - even if you don't pray. The answers will come if you are willing to hear them.
Maybe ask yourself - Would she want to know if you drank again? If yes - what is the best way that this news could be delivered to her?
I find, that when I harbor a secret, it just puts more cr@p on the pile between me and that power which I need to recover (yes recover) from alcoholism. This is for you to decide - my only suggestion is to pray about it.
The reason I replied was your last post - "Why me, etc etc" - that is some really good stuff to put in the first column of your fourth step. I believe, as has been my experience, that when I stopped fighting and moved into acceptance, life became a lot less complicated (I do not fight alcoholism anymore - this is absolutely true). The 'WHY' of this disease - doesn't really matter much anymore (to me), other than the fact that BECAUSE I am alcoholic, I can be of help to suffering alcoholics when no one else can. Maybe that is the only reason why - but it is not something that weighs on me anymore. I stopped being a victim somewhere in my stepwork, not really sure exactly where - but it's GONE.
I believe that you will be the person you are supposed to be once you give up trying to decide what that is. I don't mean that to sound harsh - because I felt a lot of guilt and shame too, it's natural in the healing process. When I was willing to put aside "my plans" and "my vision" - things seemed to come together and I came to be at peace with exactly who I am - a child of this universe who knows not where his life will lead, I am along for the ride- not calling the shots, or even trying to most of the time (not fighting).
This is recovery from alcoholism - it's about a lot more than not drinking alcohol - it's about being the person who are supposed to be and only God can make that decision - whatever God may mean to you.
Take care, say a prayer - even if you don't pray. The answers will come if you are willing to hear them.
Another Day in Paradise
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Upland, CA
Posts: 900
jjaaam,
I don't want you to think that my opinion was brought down from the mount on stone tablets. It was just based on my previous FAILINGS and lessons learned the hard way. It is after all coming from an ex-drunk. As for my stating the obvious, that is the only stance that I ever am somewhat confident taking, original thought is not my forte. You will note I hope, if you read my post that I used Mr. Miriam Webster for help. I have the ex-wives to prove I am no marriage counselor and if you want skeletons, those two can provided you with a whole ossuary. (Mr. Webster again: a depository for the bones of the dead.) I would not know that word was it not for a crossord puzzle habit aquired to replace the cocktail hour a few years ago!
J,
You are shooting for a goal and sobriety is the bull’s eye in a circle and all circles have at least 360 different paths to the middle. I can only relate the path that I have found and believe me it hasn't been well worn with a straight approach.
I can't speak to what you have to deal with in your particular situation, nor do I know how many dragons come to call on you everyday. I just know that one of the best pieces of advice I have ever been given in my time in AA and sobriety was as follows.
WHEN WE ARE FACED WITH A MORAL DILEMA, THE OPTION WHICH WE LEAST WANT TO TAKE IS "USUALLY" THE RIGHT ONE.
I know that your response to me was most likely well deserved on my part. I have no way of putting myself in your place. I was just opining based on my experience which may or may not fit your particular situation at this time.
In an effort to add some levity to this serious subject and offer it as a token apology for my exercise of ego. I did attend a graduation ceremony at the Claremont colleges a few years ago where the keynote speaker admonished the graduating class to "Only lie when necessary!"
In all honesty, I have followed THAT advice much more eagerly than I have the "rigorous honesty" admonition that I have seen so often in the Big Book!
My sincere best wishes whatever your decision and my applause for asking for and reading all the advice that you have been given. Sobriety is not an easy trek, but it is worth every stone that we get in our shoe along the way.
Best wishes and keep coming back no matter what.
Jon
I don't want you to think that my opinion was brought down from the mount on stone tablets. It was just based on my previous FAILINGS and lessons learned the hard way. It is after all coming from an ex-drunk. As for my stating the obvious, that is the only stance that I ever am somewhat confident taking, original thought is not my forte. You will note I hope, if you read my post that I used Mr. Miriam Webster for help. I have the ex-wives to prove I am no marriage counselor and if you want skeletons, those two can provided you with a whole ossuary. (Mr. Webster again: a depository for the bones of the dead.) I would not know that word was it not for a crossord puzzle habit aquired to replace the cocktail hour a few years ago!
J,
You are shooting for a goal and sobriety is the bull’s eye in a circle and all circles have at least 360 different paths to the middle. I can only relate the path that I have found and believe me it hasn't been well worn with a straight approach.
I can't speak to what you have to deal with in your particular situation, nor do I know how many dragons come to call on you everyday. I just know that one of the best pieces of advice I have ever been given in my time in AA and sobriety was as follows.
WHEN WE ARE FACED WITH A MORAL DILEMA, THE OPTION WHICH WE LEAST WANT TO TAKE IS "USUALLY" THE RIGHT ONE.
I know that your response to me was most likely well deserved on my part. I have no way of putting myself in your place. I was just opining based on my experience which may or may not fit your particular situation at this time.
In an effort to add some levity to this serious subject and offer it as a token apology for my exercise of ego. I did attend a graduation ceremony at the Claremont colleges a few years ago where the keynote speaker admonished the graduating class to "Only lie when necessary!"
In all honesty, I have followed THAT advice much more eagerly than I have the "rigorous honesty" admonition that I have seen so often in the Big Book!
My sincere best wishes whatever your decision and my applause for asking for and reading all the advice that you have been given. Sobriety is not an easy trek, but it is worth every stone that we get in our shoe along the way.
Best wishes and keep coming back no matter what.
Jon
Today's Muse
Join Date: May 2007
Location: West end
Posts: 1,081
As as alcoholic, I realized I created my own misery. I would drink and things would go awry. I spend most of my nights and early morning hours thinking of ways to cover my path and conversations aimed to change peoples minds. I was forever worrying about the what ifs. These actions consumed my life nearly every day. I now realize that I am responsible for my own happiness. Now that I have quit drinking, I no longer have to worry about undoing what I have done. I can merely live life and make changes. I have no regrets these days. Life is so much lighter. You are on the right path. Keep moving forward...
It`s ok to stay sober
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Central NC
Posts: 20,902
how fair to my family would it be if I was to drink myself to death?
I drank all I could for 20 yrs,I brought it all on myself.How about you?
for whats it is worth,you will not have to fight this thing the rest of your life if you apply the solution
I drank all I could for 20 yrs,I brought it all on myself.How about you?
for whats it is worth,you will not have to fight this thing the rest of your life if you apply the solution
Guest
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Birmingham, AL
Posts: 1,924
jjaaam,
I would ask you to go the thread A New LIfe and read the experience, strength and hope of members reaching out to newcomers and oldcomers alike. Power, honesty, purpose are all questions each of us wrestles with in a new life as our old ideas led us to ruin, while the new ideas seemed foreign and against all reason. The thinking and feeling of an Alcoholic is distorted from years of Alcoholic use and Alcoholic behavior; common sense becomes a maze of contradiction. You are what you are because of the choices you made and continue to make. You can change the path you are on for another filled with hope for the future, but you have to come to believe that your power is now without worth.
I would see you use that anger for good. I would see you turn the page of fighting the past and the unknown probability of the future and live in today; accepting the truth of today and your place in it. You are alive, but not living. You can live free, I promise you this and by God the promise is not hollow. Tell the truth in all of your affairs my friend so you can learn to hear the sound of truth for yourself nce again. Once you hear the truth, your lies will be a distance memory.
I would ask you to go the thread A New LIfe and read the experience, strength and hope of members reaching out to newcomers and oldcomers alike. Power, honesty, purpose are all questions each of us wrestles with in a new life as our old ideas led us to ruin, while the new ideas seemed foreign and against all reason. The thinking and feeling of an Alcoholic is distorted from years of Alcoholic use and Alcoholic behavior; common sense becomes a maze of contradiction. You are what you are because of the choices you made and continue to make. You can change the path you are on for another filled with hope for the future, but you have to come to believe that your power is now without worth.
I would see you use that anger for good. I would see you turn the page of fighting the past and the unknown probability of the future and live in today; accepting the truth of today and your place in it. You are alive, but not living. You can live free, I promise you this and by God the promise is not hollow. Tell the truth in all of your affairs my friend so you can learn to hear the sound of truth for yourself nce again. Once you hear the truth, your lies will be a distance memory.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 49
Who are you supposed to be?
Why does the disease have to stop you from being you. If you want to be a man of dignity, honesty and integrity, you can. Your life is what YOU make it. Make being the word for *work*.
Just an idea on your delimma.....print out this thread, show it to her....maybe she can see how you have agonized over this and how important it is to you...perhaps it will show her your sincerity....and integrity.
PS...you might want to black out our names and website address....
Why does the disease have to stop you from being you. If you want to be a man of dignity, honesty and integrity, you can. Your life is what YOU make it. Make being the word for *work*.
Just an idea on your delimma.....print out this thread, show it to her....maybe she can see how you have agonized over this and how important it is to you...perhaps it will show her your sincerity....and integrity.
PS...you might want to black out our names and website address....
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