doorknob

It's comforting to know that alcohol is not a drug.

As far as my DOC goes I'm 50/50 with alcohol and THC, and I wouldn't consider myself clean or sober if I was doing one and not the other.

psyk0

I'm from the Netherlands where, as you probably well know, cannabis is legal.
It's my personal opinion that cannabis does a lot less damage than alcohol. But being an alcoholic I might be biased as far as that's concerned.
I do think however that the mind-altering qualities of cannabis might get an alcoholic to start thinking lightly about his/her alcohol problem (cannabis tends to do that...) and therefor I'd advise you not to take the risk, especially if you know you have an addictive personality....

lizw

Maybe I should start this in another thread but how do others feel about party pills?

Party pills come out after I go sober or at least become popular after I got sober, so I've never taken any.

What's peoples opinion on these?

One of my AA friends (whose 1.5 years) had a $80 a day habit for party pills. She told me how many that was but I can't remeber. I just thought it was really funny and couldn't stop laughing. She was laughing too of course. Insanity is only funny in hindsight.

jimhere

Don't know about stopping the obsession to drink alcohol, but pot sure used to make me hungry.

Actually I hate the effect marijauna has on me. I stopped smoking pot ten years before I stopped drinking. It makes me go into my head and it really got me involved in the noise and crap that was going on in there, when I really want to get away from that and quiet it down. Plus it makes me useless like a slug, I hate that.
Jim

Texasblind

I hate to admit that yes, I smoked weed for awhile while getting "sober" I realized that it wans't just alcohol, it was any mood altering drug. I used it as a "cooling off" drug. I didn't work for me. I just wanted to get high instead of drunk.

I can't do any of the above. I have to stay sober. Real sober.

tiburon88

For me, smoking pot instead of drinking would be a big improvement. Would I get a sobriety chip? Yep sure would and feel darn proud not drinking for 60,90 ect... days. The thing is though that pot does absolutely nothing for me. I swear it doesn't really get me "high" and doesn't make me hungry.


tib

bugsworth

This thread and Jim's comment makes me think about all the meetings I use to attend. I always thought it rude how people would get up during a share to grab more cookies. I mean how hungry can you be...the meetings only an hour. In retrospect and with many of the comments here I am beginning to think there were alot of people with the munchies attending aa. LOL

Dee74

Bugs. Be Fair.
They might have been really really good cookies.



D

Tazman53

DK I do not recall any one saying alcohol was not a drug, it is, I used to feel the same way as you and mentioned that to my sponsor. He asked me if I had done drugs, I said yep. He then asked what, and I told him I smoked dope and I said yep.

He asked me after you got high what did you do? I said I just chilled.

He then asked me if when I got high drinking did I just chill?

At that point in time I saw the difference between a drug addict and an alcoholic because when I drank, I drank! If I was high of booze, I wanted to get higher, then I would drink for oblivion. When I drink I drink until I pass out, I am out of money, out of booze, or I fall asleep, I was not that way with drugs.

With drugs I did enough to get high and would do no more until I started to come down and then I would do just enough to get back up there again, with booze there was never enough.

Is alcohol a drug? You betcha, but let us look at it another way.

If every day a person, ANY person shot up heroin for 3 months they would become a heroin addict.

Now if a non-alcoholic drank a 12 pack every day for 3 months would they become alcoholics? Would they drink the 12 and still want more? Would they continue to drink a 12 pack or more every day after the 3 months is up.

Look how many folks partied their way through school drinking and then simply grew up and became social drinkers. Think some one could shoot dope all the way through school and then just use occasionaly with no problems?

If you did the same thing to certain people (alcoholics) they would want more, they would continue to drink that 12 long after the three months is up.

There is a difference even though alcohol is a drug.

jimhere

True, but now that she mentions it, you know I never really thought of it. But you know, bugs may have something. Just when I was getting past my cynicism in AA meetings too.

doorknob

Taz, I don't believe that every alcoholic experiences their addiction exactly the same. I can go for months drinking only 2-3 drinks a day without much effort (but I have a very hard time quitting altogether). But if my emotions are messed up or if I'm in an uncomfortable social situation I may not stop. And after 5 or so I black out. I've had 3 DUI's in my life. Now, I can go to places with people drinking around me and not drink (assuming I'm trying to stay sober). Sometimes it's very uncomfortable and I have to leave. Other times it doesn't bother me a bit and I might even be happy that I'm not drinking, especially when people start getting drunk and acting stupid. I can't stand being around really drunk people, even when I'm drinking! Now pot, if someone were to spark a bowl in front of me I would NOT be able to turn it down. My not smoking right now has a lot to do with my location and unavailability. I do believe pot is the lesser of 2 evils and I have used it to stop or atleast curtail my drinking. By your criterion, I would have to say I'm not an alcoholic, but I know better. For months I was starting my day with a Tilt energy drink, the 8% ones. How many non-alcoholics would do that? Oh, I've been to treatment twice too. The first time by choice, the second by force. Maybe there are different types of alcoholics. I would suggest this is true. I went to a meeting the other day and told someone that my DOC was split between pot and alcohol. He didn't believe that and said "more will be revealed." I thought "Ok thanks for the patronizing slogan." People vary in their succeptability to addiction to different chemicals. I'll tell you from personal experience crack cocaine was incredibly addictive for me. I dipped my foot in for a very short period and ran like hell, literally, I left the state. I'm talking about maybe a dozen times or so. It's been well over 10 years since I've done crack and I still have the occasional crack dream. People crawl around on the floor looking for crumbs in the carpet. How many straight men have prostituted themselves for a bottle of booze? Even now, if I think about smoking it my heart starts racing. So yeah, I think peoples experiences vary. And I think many, if they drank every single day for 3 months would develop some physical addiction. In treatment they presented a formula equating the probability of addiction as a function of genetic predisposition, degree of exposure, and attitude or beliefs regarding use of the substance. To me that made sense.

doorknob

Tib, I agree that smoking pot instead of getting drunk would be a significant improvement and have gone that route myself. But for the life of me, I can't understand you obsession with those damn chips! It's about making your life better and more manageable, getting healthier and happier, not getting chips.

DK

Tazman53

DK I agree, we are not all the same, but imho there is a difference even though both are drugs.

DK well said, picking up chips is simply a way of giving hope to newcomers, it is no a ranking system. Do not get me wrong, there are folks in the rooms that think it is.

doorknob

I'd qualify that with "for some individuals." Obviously for you and many others there is. I've known people who never had any control over their drinking. The very first time they drank they continued until they blacked out. And that pattern continued until they quit. Obviously some genetic pre-disposition going on. I drank for years before I started having blackouts. I just hate when people, non-addicted people included, separate alcohol from other drugs. Many do so, I believe, because it is legal and socially accepted and doesn't carry the stigma of drug use (I'm not saying that applies to you). People who, with a beer in their hand, will condemn pot smokers. And as far as pot, alcohol and consequences go, I'm in full agreement that alcohol is different and definitely much worse. If I were to write down all of the consequences the two have had for me in my lifetime, alcohol would require atleast an 8 1/2 x 11 (DUI's, emergency room trips, extremely irresponsible and unexplanable behavior) where pot I could fit on a sticky note. Just curious, Taz, by my description (which is honest), would you say I fit into the 'Real Alcoholic' category? Don't worry, your answer will not affect my motivation to stay sober.

Tazman53

DK in my book and everyone I know if you say you are an alcoholic, you are an alcoholic! LOL I never heard of a "Fake" or "Wannabe" alcoholic. Let me throw a BB quote in regards to alcoholics and you tell me if you are a "REAL" alcoholic.

1. Can you control your drinking once you start every time?

2. Have you ever thought you were regaining control and did not?

There is more then one type of alcoholic, basically I feel if one looks over their life and the majority of the time they have gotten into trouble or had problems in thier life and alcohol is tied into it they should consider strongly the possibilty they may be an alcoholic.

I know plenty of drinkers who view addicts as less then.... I don't, the ones I have seen the most adamant about it though are non-alcohoics.

LOL I sure hope not!!!! LOL

BTW I am sure you are aware that the medical community breaks down the stages of alcoholism into either 3 or 5 stages, I have always been a bit envious of folks who stop and stay stopped in the early stages.

tiburon88

I think if I had a 1 year chip people would take me more serious in the rooms.
Instead they call me names like "retread" and "rerounder". IMO alcohol is much more damaging than pot, however, as Taz pointed out it's illegal. In my area a persons 2nd DUI is a bigger deal though than possession of a small amount of pot. I heard they only issue tickets in California now for pot.
I too have run like hell from crack cocaine. It is a drug that I don't really like but if I take a hit I NEED more. My body is more addicted to King Alcohol and opiete type drugs. This past last year I have found the world of prescription pills which I seem to enjoy. I discovered it's much easier to march into an ER with a "injury", get a script for pain and fill it at the pharmacy than go to the "ghetto" and buy dope. The problem is mixing alcohol and Vicodin seems to land me back into the ER every time.

tib

CarolD

FYI Everyone...

I moved 4 posts from here to here

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ml#post1870595

I did not want to de rail this thread
and sooooo..
I moderated myself.

lizw

Recently I had a conversation with someone about alcoholic vrs addict.

I got sober young (20) and have been sober/clean 10 years now and in my ESH I am part of the new generation of AAers. I don't mean that in an exclusive, I'm better than everyone else kind of way, but in the sense that these days when younger people like myself get sober/clean we have used anything, alcohol included, to get wasted.

As a friend of mine says, my favourite number is lots.

Not only was I drinking but I was smoke pot 24/7 (I can never understand how anyone can smoke it any other way) and I also had a period of sniffing paint, prior to going to treatment. I was pretty surprised by the whole paint think myself.

I think mybe 20 years ago people in AA came in addicted only to alcohol. However the question I was told to ask myself was, what did I start doing first (and besides men and cigs) alcohol came first.

I sponsored a lady for awhile who was an international drug trafficer. She also used the drugs she trafficered (is this even a real word?). But she said she always felt the biggest sense of relief being able to buy a ton of duty free booze because of her travels.

I think what I am trying to say is that alcohol impared my judgement in such away that it lead me to be smoking pot and sniffing paint but that doesn't mean I had to be drunk to do those things. Alcohol made me do things I wouldn't normally do etc... Just like that woman I sponsored.

least

THis debate between alcohol and pot - which is worse? - could go on for centuries and never be resolved. I've smoked pot on and off for the last 40 years. When I didn't have any that was it - I didn't go out looking for it. There were days and weeks and months I never smoked it at all. No withdrawals or agitation or anything like the hell I went thru in quitting alcohol. I only started drinking wine in March of last year but within six months I was a raving addict and thought about drinking all the time.

I agree, sober means more than just 'not drinking' it's a whole 'nother way of thinking and living. But if I can take it or leave it, regarding pot, I don't consider it a problem - not counting the illegality. What I find so interesting about pot is the many non-mood-altering uses for it: energy, nutrition, paper, etc etc. But cause it's illegal these uses aren't happening. I'd love to see it replace our oil dependance! I'd like to see it replace our love affair with cutting down so many trees for paper and lumber. But since it's primarily thought of for its mood altering properties it's not likely its medicinal uses and other uses will happen any time soon. What a shame.

Just so no one accuses me of not being 'truly' sober - I'm not smoking it cause I can't afford it. Don't have the money and can't afford to get busted. But I don't see it as the poison alcohol certainly is to me. I'd be waiting til the grocery opened at 7 am to get my first bottle of wine to stop the shakes. Pot never affected me so addictively. Maybe it's just me, I dunno. Also never drove while stoned cause I knew I shouldn't be driving so I stayed home! Yet while drinking I often drove to get more wine and was quite certain I was "alright to drive"!! I'm just lucky or blessed by God that I never killed anyone!

I guess it's a matter of personal experience and preference. Funny too, but I used to use pot medicinally for anxiety in very small amounts. Small amounts like two tokes. And then stopped. I could never drink in small amounts, I always wanted more and more. Told my shrink that and he said "off the record" that if I had to "do" something, he'd rather I smoked a bit of pot than take benzos, which I grew way too dependant on.

HOpe I haven't started a war or anything. I'm such a pacifist I'd hate to think I started some serious conflict!

:ghug

SelfSeeking

It's funny... I smoked pot in college and shortly thereafter, maybe 1-2x per month, often less frequently. I can honestly say the only neg. consequence I experienced was a mildly scratchy throat the next day, and not every time, either. (Once I combined it with alcohol... I was binging and a pipe was going around. That was the first and last time, I got so so sick.)

I never craved it... never got so high I was incapacitated.. just sat around with friends, chatted about music and spirituality, giggled, and munched. For me, it was basically harmless.

BUT: it's illegal. The closer I get to being out of school (grad school now) and starting a career, the more aghast I am at how risky my little pot parties were. In a lot of states it's just a ticket, but anything like that showing up on a background check can be disastrous.

It sucks that the legal consequences for weed are so out of proportion to the actual consequences of using the drug. For me, it just does not trigger my brain in an addictive sense, and I don't feel it would have an impact on my avoidance of alcohol, but I wouldn't smoke anyway. Can't have it showing up in a job-related pee test.

It is interesting to contemplate a social life with zero chemical buffers though...