Nors

How does the 12 steps help you? Would you say its important in helping to recover, and why?

The Jay Walker

Nors

the steps have been key to my sobriety for several reasons. starting at step one, and going through the rest of the steps, I have come to know myself better, I now know that I can never drink like a normal person, also I had hurt a lot of people during my drinking years, and working the steps guided me on how to make amends to these people and also how to forgive myself,
I now also have a Higher power in my life today, that I never had before, but thats personal so I wont go into that, I no longer have to fight alcohol or urges to drink, the obsession has been removed. and the final steps I inventory my actions daily and share my experience with anybody who want to quit drinking.

it took a while for the steps to work in my life, but it was worth the wait, I can't imagine living without them now.

Peter

I work The Steps because it is my best guarantee against a relapse.

The Steps are all based on Spiritual Principles.......Principles such as Honesty , Openmindedness , Willingness , Trust , Faith ,Humility, Acceptance.

These are all principles I exercise when I work the steps and for me after a lifttime of dysfunctional behavior many of these principles were being introduced into my life for the very first time.

Nothing will keep me sober for any length of time besides a profound change in my values and attitudes and for me working The Steps proved to be a very good way to go about this.

Something happens to all of us when we can learn to live a life based on these principles........a new sense of awareness results and living in the world as it really is becomes a little simpler.....

If you have trouble grasping this take The Principle of Acceptance for instance.......true acceptance over things which we are powerless brings with it a sense of peace.......powerless over the weather...powerless over traffic....and powerless over alcohol....

Try another one....Honesty for example......try living a life based on lies, deception , deceit and manipulation and tell me if you feel comfortable every time the phone rings or someone knocks on your door......or the boss tells you he wants to see you in his office first thing tomorrow morning....

There are little "gifts" we recieve every time we practise one of those principles and learning to apply these principles in my everyday life is the secret to staying sober.

Step Eleven says:"Having had a Spiritual awakening as the result of these steps....." which in my opinion pretty much sums up why working the steps is a good idea.

For me a new spiritual awareness of myself and the world as it really is has removed my desire to drink.

Nors

It sounds like something I Really need and want, thank you for explaining it so
well.
About 14 years ago I was sent to rehab twice, 3 or 4 years apart, and I thought I wanted to stop but didn't really take everything seriously like I should of.I guess I must of liked the attention spent on me or something. Everyone else seemed to know more than I did that I was going to drink first thing when I was done both times, and I was mad about that, but they were right. I didn't understand Why I was in such a denial after all that I went through, and now it's like Im finally aware of how destructive and out of control I get with myself and others when I drink, every single time. The last time that I drank I felt like I was about to step in hells door knowingly, and I was going to go ahead and take that chance, even after all that I've been through, and put others through, it just can't be! I can drink, and everything will be okay. So I ended up with a big gash on the side of my head from a police officer slamming me against my car after stopping me for driving reckless, speeding, improper lane change, ignoring a street device, and Obstruction of an officer. I didn't remember giving him a hard time. As drunk as I was he didn't give me a DUI. I got lucky. Then I ended up getting the big stuff dropped cuz of my injuries, husband made me persue it, even though I didn't want to, I was too embarassed, and was afraid to explain myself since I was in such a blackout most of the time. It's weird that I remember certain things like blood all over me, and the officer stopping on the side of the road eating his lunch, luckily, I atleast remembered that, and the blood splatter on the side of my car, from the top to the bottom. Husband took a picture. And my face was all swollen, I even had a concussion, finding out later. It was an awful experience! that I don't ever want to go through ever again, and put my husband through.
Sorry for the long story!
The Big book and 12 steps, I just went through it all without really getting into it back then, I just didn't want to go through any effort. Not ever thinking about the reason for it and caring. Complete denial I guess.
But I really want to now, I want to be happy, and live that way. Thanks, I might just put your responses in my favorites.

Music

Hi Nors,
There's one characteristic about alcoholism that's different from other diseases and that's the denial factor. Most diseases have undeniable symtoms: rashes, headaches, etc. Alcohol has many of these same symtoms but because, in my case, drinking had become such an important and all consuming part of my life, I couldn't see the forest for the trees.
The AA Big Book talks about alcohol being a symtom of the real problem. I learned that the real problem was/is me. Unless and until I'm ready to acknowlege the real problem, there's scant chance of success. The steps accomplished this for me. Step one is the only step with the word alcohol in it. The rest of the steps involve me finding out what changes have to be made, setting myself straight with my fellow human beings and then making the needed changes in myself.
The reason I drank was because I didn't like me within my own skin. AA is not about not drinking; it's about learning to like me for me and learning to live with me.

Nors

That really makes sense, that explains a lot of things to me and my behavior, even when I am not drinking. Even when I read self help books, I always give them up before the main part of the book comes up, I have all these half read self help books on my shelf, same thing with getting fit and eating right. I could never understand it, but yet I can get pretty compulsive with the stuff thats bad for me and takes no effort. To much Playstation2, to much tv, eating too much, shopping, etc. All these temp. fixes that just gives me a bad feeling of my self afterwards. You know, I never had the influence of hard drugs, but if I did, Id be dead for sure. Even sex was a problem back then, only under the influence. I really don't know me at all! And I really really want to know me now, and start to let others in, before the end of my life, I don't want to die feeling this lonely and sad. Thanks So much for caring! and sharing with me

MootPoint

I've been told many times "the thinking has been done.. now its time for you to do it" re the 12 steps.

I fought about that, because an alcoholic is "self will run riot"

But, the Steps seem to work. I'vd only made it to 5 so far because I'm having trouble with the spirituality of steps 6 and 7. But that's my problem and my progression.

So I can tell you about the first 5.

I can tell you that the 1st step was an immense relief... like a weight lifted off my shoulders.

I can tell you that the 2nd step was another relief (I have been using the Fellowships as my highter power). I KNEW that a power greater than myself could restore me to sanity. I BELIEVED in the 12 steps and knew they could restore me to sanity.

Step 3 ( again using the fellowship as my HP and GOD is being Good orderly direction).. I could easily turn my will and life over to it.

Step 4 was a bit tougher...... I had to make an inventory of myself. However, I knew that "cleaning house" was essential to progress.

Same with step 5.... I knew that it was right. That I had to tell another human about the wrongs (and rights) dredged up in step 4.


As for the rest, which I have not reached, I can see how turning it over to a HP would be essential to recover, and how continuing to clean house is essential.

I hope this helps

Nors

I will have to go to an AA meeting to buy myself the Big Book and 12 steps. My first one was way to intimidating, so I am looking for another one, maybe at a church or hospital. I really wanted to get the New beginnings coin from them, but I held myself in the seat, I'll get it at the next one. I look forward to changing my negative behavior with myself. Thanks
I think I may have a hard time with #5 also, cuz how am I going to ask for forgiveness from another alcoholic (my mom), she's in complete denial. I may not have to cuz she thought I was normal, even though I crashed three of their cars and had to be picked up when I was found floating in the ocean, plus being gone til the next day or two without calling. She thought that was all normal adolecent behavior! I did apologize about all that before to her.
Im sure Ill understand what I need to do when the step comes up.
Thank you.

Peter

The Steps are all laid out in a particular order and each one we work brings an increasing sense of understanding.

The steps must be worked with a sponsor who will help to guide us through them.

Finding the right person to sponsor us usually takes a little time and careful consideration.

The most important thing right now is to keep going to meetings and reading the literature.As we continue to grow and me continue to make new friends much more will be revealed to us.

Keep up the good work.

MootPoint

Although I actually enjoyed reading the Big Book, I see how it can be intimidating to some people.

Read the free literature for now

As Peter said, get a sponsor. Then do what s/he says. Simply find someone you are comfy with and ask. The worst they can say is "no" and anyone who said no would be very gracious about it because being asked is an honor.

Again, as Peter said, you need a sponsor to work the steps.

Nors

Actually, I meant the first AA meeting I went to was intimidating to me, it was an all womans meeting, but about 98% of the woman were court appointed and were talking mostly about street walking and stuff that seemed more related to hard drug addiction. Most of the woman seem to have grown up mostly in the hard parts of the city. I just had a hard time relating and understanding. There were no Big books or 12 step books to use while there or read cuz they were all stolen, then the leader of the group said that is the result of the addiction and the way we know how to do things. I didn't agree with that one. Not to be so judgemental. I'd just rather go where everyone that goes is mostly going on their own, atleast for now, until I get stronger with my sobriety, you know what I mean.

MootPoint

Sounds like you have the solution on your own.

Go to a different meeting I'm sure there are plenty. You may not get an all women meeting, but I find the mixed meetings quite good (I'm a woman).

Music

Hi again Nors,
This is what Peter wrote:
"The Steps are all laid out in a particular order and each one we work brings an increasing sense of understanding."

If you were studying math and knew absolutely nothing about it, I handed you a math book and told you to turn to the division section, what would be your first thought? Divisioin??? I can't even do addition yet. Start at the beginning of the book and like Peter suggested, get a sponsor. That's what sponsors are for.
As for your meetings; being as new as you are, I would suggest you go to a meetings where you can get some help. That wouldn't be a meeting with nothing but street walkers unless you want to pick up a couple bucks the old way. You might stay sober doing that but, well....
My favorite meeting(my home group)is in a church. There are a lot of good meetings where you don't have to put up with negative attitudes. Like they say...."Stick with the winners."

Nors

Funny, on that one, naa, I think I'd rather go to the ones that want to do good for them selves. The church meeting should have Big books and 12 step books for sale shouldn't they?
It's really weird but, even though I want this So bad, every once in a while, especially after seeing a commercial or people drinking, a favorite drink would just pop right up in my head, and I can almost taste it, I'd have to really fight it off and think of Mr (Ms) Hyde or the Hulk that comes out if I was to do it. Im just so convinced about that, but I don't want to catch myself feeling that way in a state of anger or hurting from something that may have happened, it's almost like in the heat of anger or hurt feelings that's only I can think of, and nothing else matters, and thats only if the one I love makes me feel that way, or I feel like I've had it with all the baggage that just fills up and is ready to burst with just a few more negative interactions from strangers or just feeling discusted with myself for how I handled something wrong. I have this post truamatic stress syndrome kinda thing where when someone insults me or is angry with me (someone that I don't know very well), I have to make up some type of reaction that seems like the right thing to do, cuz the emotions for it come out later, then I get really angry later for not handling it right and not having control of myself to react appropriately at the time that it happens. And sometimes I'd just cry uncontrollably, like I just want to let it all out, I'd get So embarrassed! That's another reason why I don't interact with people, I don't know how to stand up for myself in anyway. But I do know how to show anger with my loved ones, and it's very bad. I have to live my life keeping myself within limits, and that's a bit reason why I don't let people in. It that a part of the alcoholic symptom?

Don W

Hi Nors, The 12 steps to me has sort of a set of directions to live. Some of my behavior when drinking became so automatic that I would lie or steal even if I didn't have to. Even now, sometimes my wife will ask something and I will lie automaticly. Afterwards, I feel bad and get upset with myself. In the past things like this would convince me that I haven't changed, so I'd drink. This may sound strange but, I am learning things about proper behavior that I should have learned as a child watching my parents. I came from a troubled childhood so some of the bad things I learned. Anyway, in my case I use the steps as an example as the way I want to live.
I try to follow the good examples spoken of in the 12 steps. The bottom line is that if I, or others stop drinking and continue to live as we did our
impression of ourselves will not change. I feel, and this is only my feeling, I speek of. That is one of the biggest changes we need for sobriety is
not how others view us but, how we view ourselves.
The 12 steps help me change that view if I try my best to follow the examples written. Hang in the I
am pulling for you. Don W

Juls

Hi Nors,

For me, the 12 steps just made alot of sense. It was also a way I could think about in terms of how to live my live. Guidelines that helped me define boundaries for myself.

It's great that you are asking these kinds of questions. It gives me an opportunity to think about the meaning of these things.

Thank you,

Juls

Nors

I quit, it's 3 am (compulsive here), and I accidently deleted my message 2 times already by laying my hand down and making it disappear, and they were SO long the both of them! And I explained myself so well I know, kinda goofy and tired.
Goodnight everyone:o

Nors

I look back now when I went to rehab ( 2 times), the first time was in the Philippines on Subic Bay Naval base. I had to write a journal every day on my day and how I handled what came my way, and the councilor would sit with me and write little notes with question marks above my sentences trying to get me to see, I guess, the way my thought process worked and how I was manipulating myself and others. I couldn't figure it out no matter how they tried. I guess it was just too hard since it was all I know and learned, and I had nothing to compare it to. The only time I was able to start seeing how I was, was after getting married to someone who was brought up in a much healthier lifestyle seeing how I reacted to situations and how I interpeted things, I was able to see what he was talking about, and now that I look at it, I really was and still am completely messed up in my thought process, more so with strangers. I feel like Im stuck at age 16, when I started drinking heavily. And I have to change the behavior and way of thinking that I made for myself since then, I also stopped getting to know people in a real way since then. Im in my late 30's now. That's another reason why I don't let people know me cuz I feel like Im still a kid that can't handle mature adult relationships and communication. And because I feel like a child, I have a hard time understanding how to handle independent stuff like figuring out how to take a train places, getting stuff done on my own, like how to get to an appointment without thinking that I can't trust in my ability, so I have my husband show me ahead of time, just to not mess up on the time of appointment. Not all the time. And asking him what to say if this happens or that happens, cuz I'm afraid to sound riduculous.
I don't know if any of this has to do with drinking only, I know I was sheltered a lot growing up with learning how to deal with my own problems, it was always taken cared of for me. Never really learned how to cope and handle obsticals that came my way. Anything uncomfortable I just gave it to my parents, except for coping with teasing in school, that was a very tough time! I just took it, even though I was so hurt by it, and it made me angry a lot.
Okay, Im done. Hope Im not boring everyone too much
:o , I tend to go on with stuff like this, like I've been isolated for too long or something, I guess I have Thanks. Hope I don't sound too scrambled.

MootPoint

"The church meeting should have Big books and 12 step books for sale shouldn't they?"
------------we can't expect everyone to jump on the AA bandwagon. And....... they sell the BB at the bookstore near us. I'm sure its available elsewhere.

You mention almost tasting the alcohol........ I've given in........ gonna get new glasses next month

Manipulating, etc, ppl was probably the only way you learned to do things..... don't beat yourself over it, just try to learn other coping mechanisms.

Nors, I don't think your description of PTSD sounds like the disorder.... A description of PTSD.... ". I had never even heard of the word anxiety and thought I was losing my mind. I had panic attacks so severe that I literally could not move my legs or arms. My body produced charlie horses(muscle spasms)in every muscle in my body to relieve the overflow of adrenaline that I was producing. I had agoraphobia for several years.....When my memories of childhood abuse began to surface, I had flashbacks for 5 years. I now suffer from intrusive thoughts that are negative and morbid. I am working on this at the present time."
------------this is what I undrgo and I have PTSD. There are other mental illnesses. Do not diagnose yourself!! Really, just don't!

I just had to throw that in because it is SO dangerous to diagnosoe yourself!!

"The only time I was able to start seeing how I was, was after getting married to someone who was brought up in a much healthier lifestyle seeing how I reacted to situations and how I interpeted things, I was able to see what he was talking about, and now that I look at it, I really was and still am completely messed up in my thought process, more so with strangers"
-------------I am so glad that you found someone to love and be a good role model! "someone who was brought up in a much healthier lifesyle'....... remember that the disease of alcoholism is just that, a disease. Obviously, he doesnt' have it!

". I feel like Im stuck at age 16, when I started drinking heavily...I have a hard time understanding how to handle independent stuff like figuring out how to take a train places, getting stuff done on my own, like how to get to an appointment without thinking that I can't trust in my ability, so I have my husband show me ahead of time"
-------Me too. I feel that I am either in my teens or 60 yrs old, depending upon how I'm feeling at the time! I get my s/o to help me with these things.

"Anything uncomfortable I just gave it to my parents, except for coping with teasing in school, that was a very tough time! I just took it, even though I was so hurt by it, and it made me angry a lot."
------------re teasing and giving in to parents

I ramble on with it too, so don't worry. I don't hear anyone else complaining either

Nors, it sounds like you're heading in the right direction and asking the right questions. Keep it up

Nors

I hope I am Mooti I want to be healthy.

The PTSD was actually told to me by my councilor, and a phsyciatrist ( I know I spelled that wrong) from before. I use to be mentally abused a lot from my mom, and still do once in a while even now, plus past relationships I've had, was married twice before this marriage. Both didn't last long at all, but one of the relationships was physically abusive, it was pretty truamatizing for me. And I was raped twice, once with a large knife to my throat and was going to be killed, if I didn't somehow talk him out of it. Plus growing so sheltered but seeing a lot of stuff I shouldn't of with my drunk parents not being careful, all open in the living room, and the dog even! Swingers to. And touched by a baby sitters boyfriend when I was about 5. I just don't feel alined with my emotions, espcially when Im feeling anxietic, which is usually around people besides my husband only. Someone can downright insult me and I just get confused and don't know how to handle it. The reaction is all distorted, and I get scared of myself mainly cuz I don't know how to react if it isn't there, just some confusing hurt feeling. But, when it's my husband that may have said or done something that I didn't like, I have no problem with being in touch with my feelings.
I don't really know how they determine what mental problems Im suffering from, I get more self analizing with diagnosing myself with medical problems more than anything, can be pretty scary at times overdoing things, husband gets mad at me
a lot for doing that, and councilor.
I've had 2 panic attacks, one was from a cook yelling at me to speak up about what I wanted, kinda funny, I lost my breath, I couldn't breath, my husband had to pound on my back, pretty scary. The other one was after having surgery to remove an ovary due to a cyst caused by endometriosis. I kept looking up endometriosis when I was still recovering and I started getting really freaked out about it, I had the breathing problem happen again, a long with the pounding heart and everything.
It's so awful what horrible abuse can really do to a human being, I know I've been through a lot, but some of the things I hear others have gone through, I just don't want to imagine what it's like to live with that, I really want to just grab the child within them especially if it happened at childhood, and just keep them safe in my arms.