30-Day Drinking Test for Alcoholism??????
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When I was in the Air Force the 'powers that be' said if I didn't have a drinking problem then it shouldn't be any problem for me to go 30 days without drinking.
I said it wouldn't be any problem at all, I was certain that I could go 30 days without drinking, but that I didn't want to go 30 days without drinking because I 'enjoyed it'.
In other words... I was in denial, I had a problem, and I really didn't care at the time to do anything about the problem.
So, I was offered a test but I declined to take it.
I said it wouldn't be any problem at all, I was certain that I could go 30 days without drinking, but that I didn't want to go 30 days without drinking because I 'enjoyed it'.
In other words... I was in denial, I had a problem, and I really didn't care at the time to do anything about the problem.
So, I was offered a test but I declined to take it.
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Originally Posted by CarolD 
I am curious.....
I personally never took any test for my drinking concerns/problems/addiction.
I wonder if any of y'all did?
I personally never took any test for my drinking concerns/problems/addiction.
I wonder if any of y'all did?
The other controlled drinking test I did. I thought if I drank 1 beer an hour .. I wouldn't blackout and get in trouble. That test lasted 2 hours.
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I will just defer to the AA literature...same thing as I described.
Funny how non-AA members have very strong opinions of other's experience with AA.
The Doctor's Opinion describes the physiological manifestation of an allergy that occurs in alcoholics (sets them apart as a distinct entity)..this allergy manifests as a craving for more alcohol - Silkworth's suggestion and only suggestion is total abstinence.
Summing up the Doctor's Opinion:
" In this statement he confirms what we who have suffered alcoholic torture must believe—that the body of the alcoholic is quite as abnormal as his mind. It did not satisfy us to be told that we could not control our drinking just because we were maladjusted to life, that we were in full flight from reality, or were outright mental defectives. These things were true to some extent, in fact, to a considerable extent with some of us. But we are sure that our bodies were sickened as well. In our belief, any picture of the alcoholic which leaves out this physical factor is incomplete."
So in their (AA) belief - leaving out the physical factor is not comprehensive.
(Chronic alcoholics)"they cannot start drinking without developing the phenomenon of craving. This phenomenon, as we have suggested, may be the manifestation of an allergy which differentiates these people, and sets them apart as a distinct entity. It has never been, by any treatment with which we are familiar, permanently eradicated. The only relief we have to suggest is entire abstinence."
The big book suggests trying to drink and stop abrubtly - even says to do it more than once. Now - if someone was having doubts if they had the physical aspect (craving) of alcoholism - this test would be valid, eventually you would get drunk.
Once again - when it was presented to me, all I had to do was run it through my mind...it was never suggested that I actually take a drink. But obviously there are those to whom it is suggested - hence the reason for this thread.
The other test the book suggests is to leave alcohol alone for one year (not 30 days) - a progressed alcoholic will not make it.
I didn't pull this out of my arse - and I do know what I am talking about. If your experience is different than that's all it is - different. It was an AA question and I gave the AA response - there is a whole book that confirms everything I have posted in this thread.
The OP asked specifically about this, granted it should have been posted in the twelve step forum - but I responded nonetheless.
Bugs- you are right. To most the actual picking up of a drink and doing the test is not done. My sponsor told me of ONE guy he had take the test - so that makes it less than 1% of the guys/gals he has sponsored. But when I was curious I was asked "What does the book say?" - ooooh, step over to the nearest barroom! I am amazed that you spent 10 months as a member of AA and are not familiar with the allergy as the source of craving once alcohol is consumed.
Dee - if you have/had a sponsor and gone through the steps than I apologize for the comment about commenting on things you have no experience with (it was directed at your comment "the addition of the sponsor seems...I'll be polite...and say...unnecessary" .
fwiw - the guy who actually took "the test" has been sober for 11 years.
All references to AA material taken here: Big Book On Line
Funny how non-AA members have very strong opinions of other's experience with AA.
The Doctor's Opinion describes the physiological manifestation of an allergy that occurs in alcoholics (sets them apart as a distinct entity)..this allergy manifests as a craving for more alcohol - Silkworth's suggestion and only suggestion is total abstinence.
Summing up the Doctor's Opinion:
" In this statement he confirms what we who have suffered alcoholic torture must believe—that the body of the alcoholic is quite as abnormal as his mind. It did not satisfy us to be told that we could not control our drinking just because we were maladjusted to life, that we were in full flight from reality, or were outright mental defectives. These things were true to some extent, in fact, to a considerable extent with some of us. But we are sure that our bodies were sickened as well. In our belief, any picture of the alcoholic which leaves out this physical factor is incomplete."
So in their (AA) belief - leaving out the physical factor is not comprehensive.
(Chronic alcoholics)"they cannot start drinking without developing the phenomenon of craving. This phenomenon, as we have suggested, may be the manifestation of an allergy which differentiates these people, and sets them apart as a distinct entity. It has never been, by any treatment with which we are familiar, permanently eradicated. The only relief we have to suggest is entire abstinence."
The big book suggests trying to drink and stop abrubtly - even says to do it more than once. Now - if someone was having doubts if they had the physical aspect (craving) of alcoholism - this test would be valid, eventually you would get drunk.
Once again - when it was presented to me, all I had to do was run it through my mind...it was never suggested that I actually take a drink. But obviously there are those to whom it is suggested - hence the reason for this thread.
The other test the book suggests is to leave alcohol alone for one year (not 30 days) - a progressed alcoholic will not make it.
I didn't pull this out of my arse - and I do know what I am talking about. If your experience is different than that's all it is - different. It was an AA question and I gave the AA response - there is a whole book that confirms everything I have posted in this thread.
The OP asked specifically about this, granted it should have been posted in the twelve step forum - but I responded nonetheless.
Bugs- you are right. To most the actual picking up of a drink and doing the test is not done. My sponsor told me of ONE guy he had take the test - so that makes it less than 1% of the guys/gals he has sponsored. But when I was curious I was asked "What does the book say?" - ooooh, step over to the nearest barroom! I am amazed that you spent 10 months as a member of AA and are not familiar with the allergy as the source of craving once alcohol is consumed.
Dee - if you have/had a sponsor and gone through the steps than I apologize for the comment about commenting on things you have no experience with (it was directed at your comment "the addition of the sponsor seems...I'll be polite...and say...unnecessary" .
fwiw - the guy who actually took "the test" has been sober for 11 years.
All references to AA material taken here: Big Book On Line
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If you can drink and control the amount, you are probably not alcoholic, if you do not have a physical reaction that manifests as craving, again probably not alcoholic.
The test Adam is referring to can be attributed to Marty Mann, one of the first women pioneers in AA and founder of the National Council on Alcoholism.
Learn more here: NCCA: Counselling Alcoholics by Marty Mann
As far as I'm concerned it's a great way to find one's truth.I try to stay current with my 1st step experience. I recently brought to meditation what it would be like to have 2 drinks a day for a period of time, it brought up a lot of tension within myself.
The test Adam is referring to can be attributed to Marty Mann, one of the first women pioneers in AA and founder of the National Council on Alcoholism.
Learn more here: NCCA: Counselling Alcoholics by Marty Mann
As far as I'm concerned it's a great way to find one's truth.I try to stay current with my 1st step experience. I recently brought to meditation what it would be like to have 2 drinks a day for a period of time, it brought up a lot of tension within myself.
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Join Date: Aug 2007
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test
well i have to respond to this iam the guy that suggested this test. which was through my sponsor 27 years sobriety and his sponsor 35 years sobriety, for one purpose and one purpose only, we were offering a solution to her road block in alonon which she is doing wonderfully at and only if she thought it would help her in her recovery. I also suggested posting here first and thought this might do it for her, all i can say is i hope this helps everyone who reads this and mainly patt555 , as i know this is helping me. Wish everyone another 24.
peace:ghug2
peace:ghug2
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There is an AA brochure
that contains 10 or 12 questions were you can diagnose your self alcoholic or not. I always thought it was a tad unfair as it does not allow you to score very high before it suggests maybe you are an alcoholic.
I sponsored an al anon woman for awhile since I am also an al anon member too and I have no doubt in my mind that she is an alcoholic. As soon as she stopped talking about her husband long enough to tell me her story, I knew. She loved AA woman and meetings too. Not enough to stop drinking though. And like the person who started this thread she'd had periods of her life where she'd hit the booze, got real bad, but then usually met a guy who saved her or got pregnant.
I think the other thing Alkies have that Al Anoners don't have, is a certian kind of attitude that being they are generally reckless with their own lives. Quite in your face kind of people. Not always, but this is something I've noticed on occasion.
I also know when I first got sober and went to Al Anon I wondered how they knew all this stuff about 'my family'.
Recently though, an Al Anon member asked me if I was 100% sure I was an alcoholic. I thought it was a rather odd if not a bit dangerous thing to be asking me but I told them if I had not been to a treatment centre nor became involved in the sleaze industry to support my drinking, then I may have considered the idea that I wasn't but alas I was.
The other thing that springs to mind is a story a friend of mine use to tell. He was a bit of a down and outer (lost everything) when he got sober and one night at a meeting a young girl shared about how she was drinking loads of cheap nearly non alcoholic wine and was scared she was loosing control. The girl still had a job, friends etc.. and my friend was annoyed at what she had to say. He said he thought, you're not an alcoholic, you're just a drama queen. Grow up.
So after the meeting at coffee, he was telling other members what he thought of her and one of the old timers told him that not everyone had to be as stupid as he was to get sober and that maybe if he'd sought help when he first began to lose control of his drinking (just like the girl was now) he wouldn't have lost everything....
How's that for an ouch?
I sponsored an al anon woman for awhile since I am also an al anon member too and I have no doubt in my mind that she is an alcoholic. As soon as she stopped talking about her husband long enough to tell me her story, I knew. She loved AA woman and meetings too. Not enough to stop drinking though. And like the person who started this thread she'd had periods of her life where she'd hit the booze, got real bad, but then usually met a guy who saved her or got pregnant.
I think the other thing Alkies have that Al Anoners don't have, is a certian kind of attitude that being they are generally reckless with their own lives. Quite in your face kind of people. Not always, but this is something I've noticed on occasion.
I also know when I first got sober and went to Al Anon I wondered how they knew all this stuff about 'my family'.
Recently though, an Al Anon member asked me if I was 100% sure I was an alcoholic. I thought it was a rather odd if not a bit dangerous thing to be asking me but I told them if I had not been to a treatment centre nor became involved in the sleaze industry to support my drinking, then I may have considered the idea that I wasn't but alas I was.
The other thing that springs to mind is a story a friend of mine use to tell. He was a bit of a down and outer (lost everything) when he got sober and one night at a meeting a young girl shared about how she was drinking loads of cheap nearly non alcoholic wine and was scared she was loosing control. The girl still had a job, friends etc.. and my friend was annoyed at what she had to say. He said he thought, you're not an alcoholic, you're just a drama queen. Grow up.
So after the meeting at coffee, he was telling other members what he thought of her and one of the old timers told him that not everyone had to be as stupid as he was to get sober and that maybe if he'd sought help when he first began to lose control of his drinking (just like the girl was now) he wouldn't have lost everything....
How's that for an ouch?
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Adam, I am not discounting the fact that cravings occur after drinking, I don't need any book to tell me this is true, as my own experience proves this. What I am saying is that for me at least, it is mental not physical.
I have physical allergies, to bees and certain shell fish. When I am stung by a bee or consume shell fish I have a clear physical reaction. When I drink alcohol I have a clear mental reaction I want more.
I suppose once again this boils down to semantics and personal beliefs. If you believe the Drs. opinion in the bb then the "allergy" for you is physical, most times what you believe becomes your reality.
As a quick side note...My drinking was very normal at one time....could take it or leave it....it was not an issue. I clearly remember times when I would have a beer grab another and never finish it. Did the physical allergy not exist at that time? I ask this because I have always been allergic to bees.
I have physical allergies, to bees and certain shell fish. When I am stung by a bee or consume shell fish I have a clear physical reaction. When I drink alcohol I have a clear mental reaction I want more.
I suppose once again this boils down to semantics and personal beliefs. If you believe the Drs. opinion in the bb then the "allergy" for you is physical, most times what you believe becomes your reality.
As a quick side note...My drinking was very normal at one time....could take it or leave it....it was not an issue. I clearly remember times when I would have a beer grab another and never finish it. Did the physical allergy not exist at that time? I ask this because I have always been allergic to bees.
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Bugs not disputing you reaction to alcohol being mental at all, for me after a year of sobriety I recalled my first drink clearly enough to realize that for some reason even before I was halfway through with my very first beer at the age of 11 or 12 I was already wanting another one! Mental or physical?
For me I would have to say physical, I had no experience at the time at all as to the effects alcohol had on me so there was no mental craviing for something I knew nothing about from experience. How could I crave something mentally that I had never experienced?
How could I crave something mentally that I had never experienced mentally or physically before?
The truth of the matter is physical as with me, or mental as with you, it does not matter, we both know that drinking is not something we should be doing any more.
For me I would have to say physical, I had no experience at the time at all as to the effects alcohol had on me so there was no mental craviing for something I knew nothing about from experience. How could I crave something mentally that I had never experienced?
How could I crave something mentally that I had never experienced mentally or physically before?
The truth of the matter is physical as with me, or mental as with you, it does not matter, we both know that drinking is not something we should be doing any more.
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Taz I could not agree more with your last statement!
My experience with alcohol was different than yours. I didn't start drinking until my early 20's and had no problem walking away from a drink. I remember my brother in law commenting one night as we were cleaning up how could I waste good vodka like that...as I was pouring my drink down the drain. LOL
I think like you say...it does not matter...clearly it is what you choose to believe that becomes your reality.
My experience with alcohol was different than yours. I didn't start drinking until my early 20's and had no problem walking away from a drink. I remember my brother in law commenting one night as we were cleaning up how could I waste good vodka like that...as I was pouring my drink down the drain. LOL
I think like you say...it does not matter...clearly it is what you choose to believe that becomes your reality.
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Originally Posted by bugsworth
Adam, I am not discounting the fact that cravings occur after drinking, I don't need any book to tell me this is true, as my own experience proves this. What I am saying is that for me at least, it is mental not physical.
I have physical allergies, to bees and certain shell fish. When I am stung by a bee or consume shell fish I have a clear physical reaction. When I drink alcohol I have a clear mental reaction I want more.
I suppose once again this boils down to semantics and personal beliefs. If you believe the Drs. opinion in the bb then the "allergy" for you is physical, most times what you believe becomes your reality.
As a quick side note...My drinking was very normal at one time....could take it or leave it....it was not an issue. I clearly remember times when I would have a beer grab another and never finish it. Did the physical allergy not exist at that time? I ask this because I have always been allergic to bees.
I have physical allergies, to bees and certain shell fish. When I am stung by a bee or consume shell fish I have a clear physical reaction. When I drink alcohol I have a clear mental reaction I want more.
I suppose once again this boils down to semantics and personal beliefs. If you believe the Drs. opinion in the bb then the "allergy" for you is physical, most times what you believe becomes your reality.
As a quick side note...My drinking was very normal at one time....could take it or leave it....it was not an issue. I clearly remember times when I would have a beer grab another and never finish it. Did the physical allergy not exist at that time? I ask this because I have always been allergic to bees.
as well, the debate over mental vs physical vis a vis "craving" is endless (pointless). All of our experiences especially in discussing health and well being, are holistic. This is a great example. With a craving for alcohol, one can easily see how one cannot tease apart the mind from the matter. Why do we always want to do that I wonder?
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Bugs I did not really choose to believe it, for me it was a fact. When I was drinking I could no more have poured a drink down the sink then I could have chosen to cut my hand off. I always thought that anyone who left a half a glass of booze or can of beer was wasteful, yet I had no problem leaving a cup of coffee or tea half drank.
If I could have poured a drink of mine down the sink in the end I would have still been drinking today!
Bugs we are both alike when it comes to having alcohol being a problem in our life, but our experiences with alcohol seem to be worlds apart, but that is cool, we have both found a solution that works for us, that is what matters.
Bugs I am happy for anyone who quits drinking before they cross that line into full blown alcoholism, it is like stepping through the gates of hell. To have a liquid control your very soul is not a place I wish upon even an enemy.
If I could have poured a drink of mine down the sink in the end I would have still been drinking today!
Bugs we are both alike when it comes to having alcohol being a problem in our life, but our experiences with alcohol seem to be worlds apart, but that is cool, we have both found a solution that works for us, that is what matters.
Bugs I am happy for anyone who quits drinking before they cross that line into full blown alcoholism, it is like stepping through the gates of hell. To have a liquid control your very soul is not a place I wish upon even an enemy.
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I can't immagine ever suggesting that someone go back and try control drinking..even though it is "in the book" For me AA is alchoholics who share their expereince strenght and hope with each other and my expereince is that when i tried "control" drinking....i was out for 8 years and almost didn't make it back. So I share that expereince with others. The big book clearly indicates that they knew that more would be learned over the years so i keep that in mind as i read the bb. So to the original poster....you don't have to try this experiment in order to decide that you are alchoholic and "belong" in AA...maybe share with some other AAs that you know and find out thier expereince as well.
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Miss C, I agree with you the debate could prove to be endless, but my experience is that my cravings are not physical...maybe someone reading feels as I do, my ability to step away from the booze after the initial detox became a mental battle, if I drink my cravings will be mental.
Taz, the gist of what I read from your post is that you feel I am not an alcoholic...forgive me if I read it wrong. I state this because of your last statement of your post. I also believe that your analogy of cutting off your hand rather than pouring out a drink to be a little extreme. Have you ever tried this? I tend to think you would pour the drink out less lose a hand.
I stated that there was a time when alcohol was not a problem in my life...then it became a problem.... a HUGE one...one which led me to consider suicide a viable option. If you feel that my problem was not full blown alcoholism thats ok...although it seems a bit like my dog is bigger than your dog. Alcohol did consume my thoughts and my life....I may have not drank for 40 years, but the 15 years that I did was a self imposed hell for me. I always find it incredible when people who do not subscribe to the bb version of alcoholism are told that they are not alcoholic just heavy drinkers....one should question that....seriously question the ideology behind the statement.
ananda, I agree with you...much has been learned in the last 70 years regarding the behavior of alcoholism, it is not black or white and the solution is no longer aa or die. I like the way you think!
Taz, the gist of what I read from your post is that you feel I am not an alcoholic...forgive me if I read it wrong. I state this because of your last statement of your post. I also believe that your analogy of cutting off your hand rather than pouring out a drink to be a little extreme. Have you ever tried this? I tend to think you would pour the drink out less lose a hand.
I stated that there was a time when alcohol was not a problem in my life...then it became a problem.... a HUGE one...one which led me to consider suicide a viable option. If you feel that my problem was not full blown alcoholism thats ok...although it seems a bit like my dog is bigger than your dog. Alcohol did consume my thoughts and my life....I may have not drank for 40 years, but the 15 years that I did was a self imposed hell for me. I always find it incredible when people who do not subscribe to the bb version of alcoholism are told that they are not alcoholic just heavy drinkers....one should question that....seriously question the ideology behind the statement.
ananda, I agree with you...much has been learned in the last 70 years regarding the behavior of alcoholism, it is not black or white and the solution is no longer aa or die. I like the way you think!
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Bugs - to answer your question. I don't know if the allergy was there or not. I drank normally for a number of years as well, it got worse over time.
I have an allergy to latex - I get a nasty reaction to it (rash etc - nurses cannot use latex gloves with me, it's in my medical history). It did not show up in my life until about 5 years ago. So, I did not always have an allergic reaction to it, but it developed somehow from repeated exposure to sports equipment with latex in the lining.
Now, did the allergy to latex not exist 10 years ago in me? I don't know. The allergist said that it was repeated exposure to latex - now I cannot touch it at all.
Alcoholism is progressive - I think everyone can agree on that. So maybe repeated exposure over longer periods time in larger amounts has some influence...there is plenty of information about acetaldehyde conversion to acetate, but that's not what this thread was about.
After all - an allergy is simply an abnormal reaction to a substance (bees, peanuts, shellfish, latex, cats, dogs). With alcohol, my abnormal reaction is that I will drink more when I have a little.
This is fact of my experience and it is shared by many others on this board it's also supported by literature much more recent than 1939.
This is not a matter of what I believe becoming my reality but I'll turn the other cheek anyhow.
Take care,
~a
I have an allergy to latex - I get a nasty reaction to it (rash etc - nurses cannot use latex gloves with me, it's in my medical history). It did not show up in my life until about 5 years ago. So, I did not always have an allergic reaction to it, but it developed somehow from repeated exposure to sports equipment with latex in the lining.
Now, did the allergy to latex not exist 10 years ago in me? I don't know. The allergist said that it was repeated exposure to latex - now I cannot touch it at all.
Alcoholism is progressive - I think everyone can agree on that. So maybe repeated exposure over longer periods time in larger amounts has some influence...there is plenty of information about acetaldehyde conversion to acetate, but that's not what this thread was about.
After all - an allergy is simply an abnormal reaction to a substance (bees, peanuts, shellfish, latex, cats, dogs). With alcohol, my abnormal reaction is that I will drink more when I have a little.
This is fact of my experience and it is shared by many others on this board it's also supported by literature much more recent than 1939.
This is not a matter of what I believe becoming my reality but I'll turn the other cheek anyhow.
Take care,
~a
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Thanks Adam...different perspective than Taz...We both didn't start out as alcoholics we cultivated the allergy...physical...mental...who cares...no need to turn the other cheek we agree...semantics stand in our way.
as always Gods Speed to you.
as always Gods Speed to you.
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