NOMOMERLOTMAMMA

My sponsee has PTSD, and was 13 stepped right from the get go when she came into the rooms. Needless to say, this predator saw how vulnerable she was and ran with it. Thankfully, the folks in the meetings that he goes to, that she is at, run interference and keep him away from her.

There's a lot of emotional cleanup involved with this dude, and that really makes me ticked off. For her. Like she doesn't have enough to deal with. She's a trooper though.

I am EXTREMELY careful getting to know the men in the rooms. I have a few male friends, but I ALWAYS make sure that we keep it at an appropriate distance. Makes it harder to get to know someone, but better to err on the side of caution.

Cathy31

Bugs

Just like you gave Garryw on the NA forum another point of view which you thought he'd appreciate, I am going to give you another point of view.

Someone you attended AA with (so, in other words, knows you are an alcoholic and knows that alcoholism kills) asks how you are doing 'outside'? Says he is concerned.

What is the problem precisely? Why lambaste someone who is asking after your welfare. Off with his head I say! LOL!

I guess he left thinking you're not too serene, hey?

I would also worry about an alcoholic I hadn't seen in the rooms, only because so many - including dear friends - see my dead friends thread - go out and die. Fact.

Perhaps you could take the beam outta your eye before removing his or any other person's splinter...but then I guess I should take that suggestion too!

If you are indeed doing so well, what's the problem? Could you not have just said fine thanks and led by example.

What do your kids think now- that this was some bad man daring to ask after your wellbeing.

I think you could have handled it better. I also to be perfectly honest find your aa bashing almost ridiculous, and as a result have to wonder about the 13th stepping incident.

JMHHO

Cathy31
x

Dee74

WOW nice womanly solidarity there, Cathy.
this is rabid - certainly beyond a reasonable response.

is this another great advertisement for AA for newbies do ya reckon, Cathy?

D

navysteve

We can only go by what was posted:

Doesn't sound like concern at all, sounds like assholism( pardon the language) at its best. I have heard this said many times. I went on deployment for 6 months a few years ago, when I came back, someone I didn't really know in the rooms ( my friends knew where I was and sent letters, my home group also knew) approached me while I was out eating dinner with my kids and said the same thing. When I politely explained where i was, they responded with something like " Well, the first thing you put before your recovery will be the second thing you lose!!! And then quickly walked away" ( Guess a meeting was more important than spending time with my kids who I hadn't seen in almost 7 months/ NOT!!!)That is not concern for my well being, that is someone in the rooms being a jerk. AA/NA whatever, we have people there that are not all here. We don't have to defend them

Tazman53

What this man said was wrong whether he was from AA, IOP or any type of group recovery session, I am thankful I have not seen 13th stepping but one time in the thousands of AA meetings I have gone to in the last 21 months. I have been to AA meetings in Fredericksburg, Fairfax, and Chincateague Va. along with the Va. State AA convention and another AA convention in Virginia beach. In just a 2 week time period I attended over 42 AA meetings in Baltimore and never saw any or heard of any 13th stepping.

I would be a fool to say 13th stepping does not happen in AA, I would be just as big a fool to claim it is rampant in AA.

To say 13th stepping is rampant in AA because we hear of it happening to some folks is just as wrong as someone claiming pedophelia is rampant among preist in the Catholic church. Yes it happens, but the percentage of pedophile priest is extremely small.

I run into hundreds of AA folks around Fredericksburg, I have yet to be "outed", but it does happen on occasion to some folks. So on the mere chance that some one may hit on me or out me should I just forget AA?

Bugs sorry to hear that happened to you, but the odds are just as good to be outed by some one in a group therapy for alcoholics (probably better) as an AA person.

stone

Someone blowing your anonymity is not cool at all.

And the comment, "I haven't seen you in a while has life gotten better out there?", just adds insult to injury.

Very annoying!

Tazman53

Stone sadly there are people in AA that believe that if ones stops going to meetings they are drinking again. This is not the case some times, but the majority of folks who quit going to meetings in my expereince have started drinking again. Most of these folks are ones that stay sober through meetiings it seems.

I am sure I could stay sober today if I quit going to meetings as long as I continued to apply the steps to my daily life, I go to far fewer meetings then I did when I first got sober, the main 2 reasons I go to meetings today is the fellowship and the joy I find in helping another alcoholic achieve sobriety.

The last thing I would insinuate to someone who quit going to meetings is that they must be drinking again. Heck Dr. Bob even mentions a lady who quit going to meetings and stayed happily sober.

stone

How would you know, unless they they come back?

I have a feeling that a lot of people who are entering into recovery try AA out...and I think that is a good thing, some of them won't like it and are never seen again...who knows what they then do?

Anyway, I wasn't arguing with you Taz, it's the guy Bugs met who was doing the insinuating.

Tazman53

Sadly Stone there are folks like that.

And you are right, the majority of the folks I know that quit going to meetings I know went back to drinking because they came back into the rooms and said they did. There are a few that come to a few meetings and don't come back that I have no idea about, I hope they did not go back to drinking, I am sure some of them did not go back to drinking. I know one guy who has not come back that is back to drinking, he stayed sober for about 4 months, we got pretty close...... then he just dissapeared, I tried calling him a few times but he didn't answer, a few months later I saw him...... pretty sad.

I wanted to go up and hug him, but I had a feeling that is not what he would have wanted me to do, he is a good man and it broke my heart to see him drunk. We have another guy who has been in and out of the rooms for well over 5 years now according to him. He has come in and gone back out at least 3 times since I have been going, he is a great guy as well, every time he comes back he looks worse then he did the time before, he stays sober just long enough to where he is really getting his health back and out he goes again. I hope he is sober today, but his track record for the last 5 years is not really good, hopefully he has found another way that works for him.

navysteve

I stayed away from meetings for 7 years ( not entirely true, I went once a quarter or so) I stayed sober. I wasn't happy, AA attendance had nothing to do with it however, and my problems were nothing a meeting would have helped, probably would have made worse ( all the unqualified advice masked as sharing experience). I know many who stopped going and stayed sober without AA. We are not the only game in town. What we do have, is the chance to help someone else stay sober. I can only give that away by attending AA meetings( at least that is the easiest way). Today I don't need meetings, I need to be of maximum service to my fellow man. As an alcoholic, I spent alot of time taking from others, in order to stay in fit spiritual condition, I need to give today. No where is that service needed more than in a meeting. I left because of all the BS I heard, sobriety gave me back a brain, and there is alot of nonsense said in meetings, that is unfortunate. There are also bad people who take advantage in many ways in the rooms ( we should redefine 13th stepping as more than sex, it is about controlling a weaker person). But the one thing I couldn't justify was the unconditional love that I did receive in some meetings, by some AA's. Their message, which was often a simple hand shake was more powerful than all the other crap.

Emimily

how it works with us is like this- i know that my friends (or fra-quaintances) get shout outs when i see them out and about, and vice versa. i don't say "hey joe from AA, how are ya?!" but i do hug them and tell them i'm happy to see them. if they're kids i haven't seen in a while, i ask how they're doin. tell 'em i miss 'em, if i do. if (and when) people ask how we know each other, i say the same thing i always have - mutual friend.

i get being creeped by an awkward moment in a grocery store, esp. with kids there, but to throw it all down on AA is ******* ridiculous. 13th steppers? yeah, they're out there, they're crazy drunks. not everyone has your best interest in mind, but that's not a trait exclusive to AA, that's a human condition. you think every robber, thug, murder, rapist is also an alcoholic? not so much. it sucks, and it happens, and it's dealt with and that's why women stick with women and men with men.

it frustrates me to hear someone who's pretty smart make an ignorant blanket statement about an entire group of people.

stone

Yes AA is just a microcosm of society, Em.

Someone told me this once, 'the bad thing about AA is that it is full of alcoholics, even worse, it is full of people'.

Ananda

yes - 13th stepping is an ambiguoius term. I would say that I have seen alot of people who abuse thier power over a newcomer and it comes in many ways. I have also seen people who meet, date, etc. in AA. It's the taking advantage of that is the problem.

It has been important to me not to isolate myself from 1/2 of the world's population, but womens meetings also have a place in my life and at one point they were the only meetings i could attend...today i find that only women becomes a form of isolation....but i really mean that is just for me and my pattern.

bugsworth

Wow this thread turned ugly there for a second...once again thank you cathy31.

To those in aa that shared incidence of being "outed" and 13th stepped, which by the way I stated was really secondary to the comment, I thank you for being forth right. It seems that it does happened as is evident by the shares on this thread, however as a former aa member my credibility and integrity is questioned. Had this thread been started by an active member of aa I wonder if the negative responses might have not been included. Oh well what is done is done.

Thank you everybody for your participation. It's a new day and looking forward not backwards is a part of my recovery!

Dawn

RufusACanal

Bugs,

I apologize for not getting to this thread sooner. Years ago, I too was a 13th stepping man. I was inclined to believe that a woman could fix me and solve all of my life issues and so I was available for fixing in the AA clubs around the country for many years. I stayed sick for so many years as a result of this form of thinking and living. Today, I do not need to be fixed, because I found that I was worthy enough to have a new life through the power and gift of grace that only God can offer. I despised the way I was. I am not that man today.

Dawn, through hard work and faith you have a miraculous new life and I am so proud of you and the journey you continue today. Faced with the same circumstances, I do not know how I could have handled it; doubtful that I would have accomplished anything positive. More importantly, the guts you show by sharing your ESH here concerning this event helps others and that is the ticket to keeping your new life. You have nothing to prove to anyone; accountability is between you and your Higher Power.

I was not amused by the comments of a posting member here. I would hope that some of this member’s peers would take the time to speak with her concerning simple consideration.
Otherwise, much love to you. Your example, your life is a blazing torch for those who have stumbled in the dark. I am grateful for you.

Ron

bugsworth

Ron, my dear friend, words escape me except to say that I too am grateful for you, for your presence in my life has changed it forever.

LosingmyMisery

We share our experience, strength and hope. My experience wasn't so pleasant. Why does it seem like I should be shamed for mentioning it? It happened. It was real. Unless it has happened to you, you don't know what it is like or how you may react. I came in weak and pickled. My mind was not thinking clearly. It was all I could do to go to attend meeting and I never in a million years thought I would be treated the way I had. I may have been down and out, but I'm know push over. The problem being is he wouldn't take no for an answer. It is over now, what's done is done.

I'm not real clear of what blanket statements we are speaking of here, but are we not allowed to share our experiences? The behavior was very inappropriate. It happened and I shouldn't have to refrain from talking about it.

I think bringing robbers, thugs, murders, and rapists is pretty blanket and ridiculous. Wrong is wrong, period. Yes there are bad people every where. Silly me. Being a naive drunk, I never expected to be stalked by a man who should have know better. Now what? Do I lock it in the vault to never be discussed again.

I don't think anyone was trashing the program for our experience. H*ll, I kept going back. I wanted to get sober. To h*ll with him and his inappropriate behavior. A few of us were offering up our experience. Why all of the hullabaloo?

bugsworth

LM, I am truly sorry for what you experienced and thank goodness you stayed on your path to sobriety. I too was confused by the robbers, thugs, murderers...etc comment but everyone has their opinion. I made no blanket statement of aa as a whole other than to say that this behavior happens maybe more frequently than we realize...evident by posts that followed. Any criticism of aa always leads to the accusation of bashing aa and then leads to the lashing out at the one who brought the point to light. Why this happens is something I can't answer, just another fact of the aa program.

I thank you for your candor and admire your sobriety. Thanks for your story.

miss communicat

??????????????

bugsworth

Miss C.....To answer your ?????????

If one speaks out against aa or points out any fault in the program almost without fail that person will be perceived as bashing aa and will be subjected to unkind behavior.

As I stated before I don't understand why...but it happens.