A little bent...
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,372
not an effective member no...but as an outsider, I naturally wonder how *indicative* a member this bonehead might be
and I'll edit to indicate that I hope he's not representative of any great sample.
still a good question tho.
D
and I'll edit to indicate that I hope he's not representative of any great sample.
still a good question tho.
D
Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Medina, Ohio
Posts: 372
Bugs,
Hi, I'm sorry for what happened to you. You have a great Son! The AA meetings I have been to are nothing as you describe but I cannot judge your experience. I do suppose there are idiots in AA just like everywhere else, I just haven't met many of them, of course I am not a woman.
I believe your experience is precisely why there are woman's only AA groups, I would suggest giving AA a try again in a women's only setting. The program works if it's worked.
John
Hi, I'm sorry for what happened to you. You have a great Son! The AA meetings I have been to are nothing as you describe but I cannot judge your experience. I do suppose there are idiots in AA just like everywhere else, I just haven't met many of them, of course I am not a woman.
I believe your experience is precisely why there are woman's only AA groups, I would suggest giving AA a try again in a women's only setting. The program works if it's worked.
John
Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Bethlehem, PA.
Posts: 1,781
Originally Posted by Texasblind 
I'm still new at all this AA...what is 13th stepping? Is it putting 12 into practice?
It`s ok to stay sober
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Central NC
Posts: 20,902
aa has some critics that call it a cult.Some meetings are good meetings,some are not,Some want you to depend on people and meetings,instead of God for your sobriety.These are the ones who fallen into the cult category.They usually are the "anything goes" type of meetings.
I assure you bugworth,my home group doest`t pull that kind of crap.If they did,I would go elsewhere.I have better things to do with my time.
13th stepping is often referred to sex.It really goes on at a bigger scale and includes more than sex.Bottom line is,a drunk will find sex or God.
Anytime I use people,places,or things for my own selfish personnel gain,to feed my ego,or anything else,it is really 13th stepping.It causes more confusion to the alcoholic,and they get sicker and sicker.Women do just as much as men.
what you hear here stays here.....my home group tells you to "feel free to discuss any ideas and thoughts you may have gained"....that what you hear here stays here is nonsense.
I assure you bugworth,my home group doest`t pull that kind of crap.If they did,I would go elsewhere.I have better things to do with my time.
13th stepping is often referred to sex.It really goes on at a bigger scale and includes more than sex.Bottom line is,a drunk will find sex or God.
Anytime I use people,places,or things for my own selfish personnel gain,to feed my ego,or anything else,it is really 13th stepping.It causes more confusion to the alcoholic,and they get sicker and sicker.Women do just as much as men.
what you hear here stays here.....my home group tells you to "feel free to discuss any ideas and thoughts you may have gained"....that what you hear here stays here is nonsense.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,876
Thanks to all for the kind words and sharing similar experiences.
I was a member for 10 months and do see people all the time, most play by the rules, by that I mean simply smile and walk on by when seen outside the rooms.
This guy however did not, thankfully my son knew about my involvement in aa and quickly realized the direction this was going and removed my daughter from ear shot.
bballdad, while you may have the upmost confidence in your home group and that all the members are recovering (recovered) yours is just one group, in one town, in one state.
My experience in aa has shown me many people in many stages of recovery...some just don't understand that many people do not wish to be approach outside the rooms...especially if the tone of the conversation is demeaning. I didn't leave aa to "go back out there" and didn't appreciate the accusation at all. His concern was fake and his actions inappropriate.
As far as the 13th stepping....it happens all the time. If it didn't it would not be one of the first things most women are warned about upon entering the program. It is not a new problem in aa as Bill Wilson was accused of doing it himself many times. If it was something rare the phrase "13th stepping" wouldn't even exist. This guys conduct towards me in the rooms was laughable, I have been hit on before, it was his disregard for my privacy outside the rooms that disturbed me. Is it common in aa? Seems to me by some of the responses the answer to that is yes.
I was a member for 10 months and do see people all the time, most play by the rules, by that I mean simply smile and walk on by when seen outside the rooms.
This guy however did not, thankfully my son knew about my involvement in aa and quickly realized the direction this was going and removed my daughter from ear shot.
bballdad, while you may have the upmost confidence in your home group and that all the members are recovering (recovered) yours is just one group, in one town, in one state.
My experience in aa has shown me many people in many stages of recovery...some just don't understand that many people do not wish to be approach outside the rooms...especially if the tone of the conversation is demeaning. I didn't leave aa to "go back out there" and didn't appreciate the accusation at all. His concern was fake and his actions inappropriate.
As far as the 13th stepping....it happens all the time. If it didn't it would not be one of the first things most women are warned about upon entering the program. It is not a new problem in aa as Bill Wilson was accused of doing it himself many times. If it was something rare the phrase "13th stepping" wouldn't even exist. This guys conduct towards me in the rooms was laughable, I have been hit on before, it was his disregard for my privacy outside the rooms that disturbed me. Is it common in aa? Seems to me by some of the responses the answer to that is yes.
Forward we go...side by side-Rest In Peace
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Serene In Dixie
Posts: 36,740
I have been hit on before, it was his disregard for my privacy outside the rooms that disturbed me. Is it common in aa? Seems to me by some of the responses the answer to that is yes.
Pperhaps because I am proud to be AA recovered?
Perhaps because by living the AA Steps ..Serenity is mine?
Go to AA...Don't go to AA
I certainly hope everyone can learn how to
"Live Well and Prosper" ....
Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: in the present moment
Posts: 2,060
being a jerk is not an AA issue, its a human issue. It happens everywhere. Self centered, insensitive, unconsciuos jerks are everywhere. Blaming the group that 1 jerk belongs to is probably a mistake in judgement that hurts your own growth by pouring your negative energy in that direction. The most positive part of your experience, one that I would focus on more than AA, is how sensitive, tuned in and mature your son is. How free you are to walk away and move forward. How lucky you are to have the choices you have.
But this is not really an AA issue. I mean, I work in the helping profession. It is sacrosanct that we professionals have ethics, as people are vulnerable when we see them. Yet, occasionally, an unskilled, unpolished personality defect will show up on the part of a colleague, and it is destructive to the trust and safety of the therapeutic relationship and to the profession as a whole, yet it is not accurate to paint the whole field with that wide brush of saying the entire field of helping professionals is icky, gross, inappropriate and predatory when one jerk steps over a sacred line with another person.
So, with your AA experience, please keep a balanced perspective. This is YOUR experience of this one man. Does it help anyone to paint AA with a big fat negative brush, otherwise known as smearing? Maybe it feels better for a while but let reason prevail and return, please.
I'm so sorry that you encountered a gross man. Sadly, gross men are everywhere.
So are gross women, dogs, kids, teachers, priests, etc. What I do about them is this: Nothing. I carry on.
Have a wonderful day, its a new one.
But this is not really an AA issue. I mean, I work in the helping profession. It is sacrosanct that we professionals have ethics, as people are vulnerable when we see them. Yet, occasionally, an unskilled, unpolished personality defect will show up on the part of a colleague, and it is destructive to the trust and safety of the therapeutic relationship and to the profession as a whole, yet it is not accurate to paint the whole field with that wide brush of saying the entire field of helping professionals is icky, gross, inappropriate and predatory when one jerk steps over a sacred line with another person.
So, with your AA experience, please keep a balanced perspective. This is YOUR experience of this one man. Does it help anyone to paint AA with a big fat negative brush, otherwise known as smearing? Maybe it feels better for a while but let reason prevail and return, please.
I'm so sorry that you encountered a gross man. Sadly, gross men are everywhere.
So are gross women, dogs, kids, teachers, priests, etc. What I do about them is this: Nothing. I carry on.
Have a wonderful day, its a new one.
Today's Muse
Join Date: May 2007
Location: West end
Posts: 1,081
I came into AA in utter desperation, as a last ditch effort to save my life. My decision to attend meetings was a long time coming and it was very difficult to finally admit I needed to go and getting there was just as difficult.
I had recovery on my mind and not men. However, I was approached by a man with 14 years of sobriety after being in the program only a few weeks. He sat me down and said he had something he wanted to talk about. I thought he wanted to talk about recovery, silly me. He told me that he had been watching me for several years. He knew I had a drinking problem and was hoping one day I would walk into the doors of AA. Well, voilą, here I came and he thought it was fate. I thought yuck. He explained that AA recommended that we not date for a year, but he was willing to wait. I declined his interest as politely as I could and I thought that would be that, wrong.
It came to the point he was stalking me. There was only one meeting in town so a woman's meeting was not a luxury. He was incensed by my refusal of his interests and I was punished by doing so. He would make rude comments and verbally chastise me in meetings and by phone calls. I felt like I had no where to go. I cut off all phone calls, but had to continue with the abuse at meetings. I found it odd that no one would step up to him in meetings. Luckily, he left the group after much drama and after many disruptions.
The point is, it may not be the norm, but it does happen. It can be very traumatic to those that have endured it. I did not ask for it and do not appreciate the damper that was put on my very important recovery. Stating that this sort of thing doesn't happen at your meeting or this meeting, should not minimize that fact that it does happen. I have only one experience in AA so being thirteen stepped is the only experience I know. If I only have one experience, from my point of view, it happens 100% of the time.
I understand this is not AA's problem, but an individual problem. However, AA as a group is not always prepared to handle the situation appropriately. I had a woman approach me after the fact and ask how I ever survived the treatment I received. She was surprised I didn't run or crumble. Actually, I did run in my early days, it was an excuse to leave the group and I did eventually drink, but I sucked it up, went back and the treatment became worse until he finally left the group. I dealt with the behavior because I was in survival mode.
I survived. I'm sober, but what a horrible way to take advantage of someone who is weak and not thinking clearly. I'm well aware of the fact that there are sick people out there. I understand that, but it did not make my experience any easier at the time. All I can ask is that we look at for one another. If we see this happening, step up and try to stop it. It is the right thing to do.
I had recovery on my mind and not men. However, I was approached by a man with 14 years of sobriety after being in the program only a few weeks. He sat me down and said he had something he wanted to talk about. I thought he wanted to talk about recovery, silly me. He told me that he had been watching me for several years. He knew I had a drinking problem and was hoping one day I would walk into the doors of AA. Well, voilą, here I came and he thought it was fate. I thought yuck. He explained that AA recommended that we not date for a year, but he was willing to wait. I declined his interest as politely as I could and I thought that would be that, wrong.
It came to the point he was stalking me. There was only one meeting in town so a woman's meeting was not a luxury. He was incensed by my refusal of his interests and I was punished by doing so. He would make rude comments and verbally chastise me in meetings and by phone calls. I felt like I had no where to go. I cut off all phone calls, but had to continue with the abuse at meetings. I found it odd that no one would step up to him in meetings. Luckily, he left the group after much drama and after many disruptions.
The point is, it may not be the norm, but it does happen. It can be very traumatic to those that have endured it. I did not ask for it and do not appreciate the damper that was put on my very important recovery. Stating that this sort of thing doesn't happen at your meeting or this meeting, should not minimize that fact that it does happen. I have only one experience in AA so being thirteen stepped is the only experience I know. If I only have one experience, from my point of view, it happens 100% of the time.
I understand this is not AA's problem, but an individual problem. However, AA as a group is not always prepared to handle the situation appropriately. I had a woman approach me after the fact and ask how I ever survived the treatment I received. She was surprised I didn't run or crumble. Actually, I did run in my early days, it was an excuse to leave the group and I did eventually drink, but I sucked it up, went back and the treatment became worse until he finally left the group. I dealt with the behavior because I was in survival mode.
I survived. I'm sober, but what a horrible way to take advantage of someone who is weak and not thinking clearly. I'm well aware of the fact that there are sick people out there. I understand that, but it did not make my experience any easier at the time. All I can ask is that we look at for one another. If we see this happening, step up and try to stop it. It is the right thing to do.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico
Posts: 565
Goddamn! I'm naive as hell. I would have never though of AA as a place to hit on women. I'm sitting here shocked right now, not kidding. I thought AA was supposed to be a safe place.
Yes, I'm a man and I would never even consider going after a woman in the group. That's not what we're there for right? I'm so happy when women come into my meetings because I like to hear their story and be assured that it's human, not just male. I would never consider hitting them up for a date afterward. Hell, I'd be too scared and awkward just to go to coffee with them, it wouldn't seem right. We're in AA to help each other right? Not to be friends.
I just feel like I found out there was no Santa Claus all over again.
Yes, I'm a man and I would never even consider going after a woman in the group. That's not what we're there for right? I'm so happy when women come into my meetings because I like to hear their story and be assured that it's human, not just male. I would never consider hitting them up for a date afterward. Hell, I'd be too scared and awkward just to go to coffee with them, it wouldn't seem right. We're in AA to help each other right? Not to be friends.
I just feel like I found out there was no Santa Claus all over again.
Forward we go...side by side-Rest In Peace
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Serene In Dixie
Posts: 36,740
Texas Blind...
The men and women who do 13 Step actions
are not following the AA program.
The 3 AA home groups I've been a member of
nip this destructive behavior quickly.
For instance....if I see a man sit down after
a meeting talking to a new woman...I join them.
I'll also invite the woman for coffee
giving us a chance to get better acquainted.
Please scan your meeting. Watch and see
how rarely this goes on.
But yes...it does happen just as predators are
in the bars...schools...churches...neighborhoods.
They latch on to the most fragile.
It's never acceptable behavior.
The men and women who do 13 Step actions
are not following the AA program.
The 3 AA home groups I've been a member of
nip this destructive behavior quickly.
For instance....if I see a man sit down after
a meeting talking to a new woman...I join them.
I'll also invite the woman for coffee
giving us a chance to get better acquainted.
Please scan your meeting. Watch and see
how rarely this goes on.
But yes...it does happen just as predators are
in the bars...schools...churches...neighborhoods.
They latch on to the most fragile.
It's never acceptable behavior.
It`s ok to stay sober
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Central NC
Posts: 20,902
I have been talked about and piratically cussed out because I have stood up for the right thing and the newcomer before,and thats ok,lets all just keep doing the right thing!
best wishes Bugsworth!
best wishes Bugsworth!
Forward we go...side by side-Rest In Peace
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Serene In Dixie
Posts: 36,740
LM...it really :burns me when I know this has happened.
Your horrific experience makes me hopping mad
If I can do nothing else...
I can call a Group Concious meeting and expose predators.
And I have done so.
I'm following the example shown to me
by the powerful successful women I met in early recovery.
Forward we go...side by side....
Your horrific experience makes me hopping mad
If I can do nothing else...
I can call a Group Concious meeting and expose predators.
And I have done so.
I'm following the example shown to me
by the powerful successful women I met in early recovery.
Forward we go...side by side....
Member
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,861
Hey Dawn, I haven't seen you in a while has life gotten better out there?"
Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico
Posts: 565
I'm still in my honeymoon phase I guess...
I guess my mind doesn't work that way. I never even considered the possibility that there might be predators in AA. Now, that I sit back and think, I say yes...it is possible that someone would come into a place full of vulnerable, sick and sad people. That's a damn shame. That someone would take advantage of the disease.
Again, I am so happy when a female comes to a meeting I'm in. It reassures me that I'm not just a diseased man, but a diseased human. It may sound silly, but I am a traditional kinda guy I guess and something about that female share makes me feel it's alright. I would never ask her out though! She's there for the same reason as me, to get healthy. I feel bad that "13th stepping" might be turning women off to open meetings. I don't want to hang around a bunch of bums like me. I want a United Nations of different people sharing. That's what's inspiring to me.
Carol: Thank you. Honestly, I've never seen anything unbecoming at a meeting. I guess that's why I was so shocked. I'll shut up now.
I guess my mind doesn't work that way. I never even considered the possibility that there might be predators in AA. Now, that I sit back and think, I say yes...it is possible that someone would come into a place full of vulnerable, sick and sad people. That's a damn shame. That someone would take advantage of the disease.
Again, I am so happy when a female comes to a meeting I'm in. It reassures me that I'm not just a diseased man, but a diseased human. It may sound silly, but I am a traditional kinda guy I guess and something about that female share makes me feel it's alright. I would never ask her out though! She's there for the same reason as me, to get healthy. I feel bad that "13th stepping" might be turning women off to open meetings. I don't want to hang around a bunch of bums like me. I want a United Nations of different people sharing. That's what's inspiring to me.
Carol: Thank you. Honestly, I've never seen anything unbecoming at a meeting. I guess that's why I was so shocked. I'll shut up now.
Member
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,861
It's when AA members (usually men) take advantage of newcomers or other members for a relationship or sexual favors.
Member
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,861
Again, I am so happy when a female comes to a meeting I'm in. It reassures me that I'm not just a diseased man, but a diseased human.
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