doing research?
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: in the present moment
Posts: 2,060
doing research?
when someone who has been sober a while goes back "out there" , or goes back to drinking, it has also been referred to as "going out and doing more research".
whatever its called, I have never heard from those returning to sobriety, that it was any better "out" there, or that drinking again had improved, in any way or form, the quality of their life.
in fact, hearing the war stories of the rare and lucky ones who DO make it back to sobriety confirms for me how fatal and progressive alcoholism is. these horror stories keep it green for me, for if i ever forget my last drunk, chances are, it isnt my last.
what I have found very helpful in my own sobriety, rather than focus solely on the war stories of the drinking days, is to ask those folks who DID go out and who DID come back to sobriety, to tell me what was going on BEFORE you went out?
Did you stop going to meetings (if in a program)?
Did you stop talking to your support system (sponsor/home group if in AA)?
Did you have a spiritual crisis?
Did you have some great success in your life?
I'd love to hear from people here, what was going on with you in the days and weeks before you picked up a drink? What have you learned from the "research"?
whatever its called, I have never heard from those returning to sobriety, that it was any better "out" there, or that drinking again had improved, in any way or form, the quality of their life.
in fact, hearing the war stories of the rare and lucky ones who DO make it back to sobriety confirms for me how fatal and progressive alcoholism is. these horror stories keep it green for me, for if i ever forget my last drunk, chances are, it isnt my last.
what I have found very helpful in my own sobriety, rather than focus solely on the war stories of the drinking days, is to ask those folks who DID go out and who DID come back to sobriety, to tell me what was going on BEFORE you went out?
Did you stop going to meetings (if in a program)?
Did you stop talking to your support system (sponsor/home group if in AA)?
Did you have a spiritual crisis?
Did you have some great success in your life?
I'd love to hear from people here, what was going on with you in the days and weeks before you picked up a drink? What have you learned from the "research"?
Obsessed Pug Momma
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Probably at Wal-Mart
Posts: 1,331
Yeah, I had 2 long-term relapses and each time it was a worse kind of hell than I ever thought would happen.
Before I relapsed, I guess you could say I worked the steps backwards.
i.e. 6. was entirely ready for god to relieve all those m'fers defects of character.
5. Told God, myself and anybody else that would listen about everyone else's wrongs.
4. Daily took a searching and fearless moral inventory of everyone else (and copped a bunch of resentments which I was unwilling to work on).
3. I stopped relying on God.
2. Decided I was cured and had no need for any higher power, but YOU sure did.
1. Forgot my powerlessness and unmanageability. Quit living the program at all.
Before that last relapse 8 years ago, I went through all 12 steps. For a couple years I was really living the program and had good recovery. But as happens with many other people, I started getting frustrated with crap going on in the group and did NOT use spiritual principles to deal with it. Without realizing it, I gradually got out of the routine of calling upon spiritual principles and guidance from others when i encountered problems. I had also isolated myself from people. I let those old feelings of inferiority creep in and take root. Even though I was in meetings, I had emotionally withdrawn from all but maybe 2. I got depressed and felt like I wasn't good enough for other people to be my friend. I was feeling overly stressed with work and meeting attendance and did NOT talk with my sponsor about it or apply spiritual principles. To put it simply, I GOT LAZY. I let these resentments fester and with the added excuse of how tired I always was from working and raising a young child, I finally called it quits. At that point I felt like I had a good relationship with God, but did not recognize that it was just a feel-good relationship and not me actually relying on God taking action I thought God wanted me to take. So I finally had what I thought was a grand epiphany: I decided that it had been God keeping me clean all along, that I didn't need meetings to stay clean. I can't believe I bought into that BS. Maybe it was God that helped me stay clean, but that was while I was willing to use a shovel, ya know? So I quit meetings fully intending to stay clean. Within 3 months I was so full of hostility, so resentful, so lonely, that I picked up.
This time around I try to go forward, not backward. For most of my life I have struggled with PTSD and the depression that comes with that, stemming from childhood abuse. I am aware that failing to deal with those is part of my relapse pattern. So long as I remain vigilant and recognize when those issues or other issues such as boredom with meetings or resentments crop up, I can use recovery tools to get through them with my recovery intact. But it takes vigilance, it takes commitment. It would be far too easy to just slip into those negative forces and relax, but I know where that road takes me. Just recently I posted in SR that I was frustrated with crap in meetings, resentful, wanting to quit going, that I had lost my passion. Well, I wrote that post because in my 10th steps I recognized what was happening. I took action by posting, sharing it with my homegroup and sponsor, by following their suggestions. And now I'm in a better mindset. Still in meetings, working on another step, still doing the things that have kept me clean this long. Disaster averted again, LOL.
Before I relapsed, I guess you could say I worked the steps backwards.
i.e. 6. was entirely ready for god to relieve all those m'fers defects of character.
5. Told God, myself and anybody else that would listen about everyone else's wrongs.
4. Daily took a searching and fearless moral inventory of everyone else (and copped a bunch of resentments which I was unwilling to work on).
3. I stopped relying on God.
2. Decided I was cured and had no need for any higher power, but YOU sure did.
1. Forgot my powerlessness and unmanageability. Quit living the program at all.
Before that last relapse 8 years ago, I went through all 12 steps. For a couple years I was really living the program and had good recovery. But as happens with many other people, I started getting frustrated with crap going on in the group and did NOT use spiritual principles to deal with it. Without realizing it, I gradually got out of the routine of calling upon spiritual principles and guidance from others when i encountered problems. I had also isolated myself from people. I let those old feelings of inferiority creep in and take root. Even though I was in meetings, I had emotionally withdrawn from all but maybe 2. I got depressed and felt like I wasn't good enough for other people to be my friend. I was feeling overly stressed with work and meeting attendance and did NOT talk with my sponsor about it or apply spiritual principles. To put it simply, I GOT LAZY. I let these resentments fester and with the added excuse of how tired I always was from working and raising a young child, I finally called it quits. At that point I felt like I had a good relationship with God, but did not recognize that it was just a feel-good relationship and not me actually relying on God taking action I thought God wanted me to take. So I finally had what I thought was a grand epiphany: I decided that it had been God keeping me clean all along, that I didn't need meetings to stay clean. I can't believe I bought into that BS. Maybe it was God that helped me stay clean, but that was while I was willing to use a shovel, ya know? So I quit meetings fully intending to stay clean. Within 3 months I was so full of hostility, so resentful, so lonely, that I picked up.
This time around I try to go forward, not backward. For most of my life I have struggled with PTSD and the depression that comes with that, stemming from childhood abuse. I am aware that failing to deal with those is part of my relapse pattern. So long as I remain vigilant and recognize when those issues or other issues such as boredom with meetings or resentments crop up, I can use recovery tools to get through them with my recovery intact. But it takes vigilance, it takes commitment. It would be far too easy to just slip into those negative forces and relax, but I know where that road takes me. Just recently I posted in SR that I was frustrated with crap in meetings, resentful, wanting to quit going, that I had lost my passion. Well, I wrote that post because in my 10th steps I recognized what was happening. I took action by posting, sharing it with my homegroup and sponsor, by following their suggestions. And now I'm in a better mindset. Still in meetings, working on another step, still doing the things that have kept me clean this long. Disaster averted again, LOL.
Last edited by daydream; 05-12-2008 at 12:11 AM.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: in the present moment
Posts: 2,060
wow, daydream, what great insights! I LOVE the reversal of the steps as the road to relapse. This is exactly the way it went for me, too. After 7 years I started stepping out.....
Belgian Sheepdog Adictee
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: In Today
Posts: 6,101
I believe to this day that HP picked my sponsor for me. You see I got Beverly Douglas (I use her last name with her permission long before she passed) and with Beverly you got her Husband Hugh Douglas (again I use his full name with his permission long before he passed).
Now Hugh had 9 years of sobriety when he decided that he was 'cured.' He went down so fast, it did shock him and he was usually unshockable. By the time he returned he was living in a card board box under a freeway, and this was a man who had made millions as an Electrical Contractor. His second time around he finally got honest and all of his shares whether just at a meeting for his own continuing sobriety or from the podium at one of his many speaking engagements, he talked a lot about what was happening before he went out, and the differences and what he learned upon his return.
At his passing in July of '92 he had 22 years of continuous sobriety. That man taught me a lot, I stil can hear his voice in me head to this day when working on a solution to something.
I cannot dwell on those that have to go back and drink some more, like you Miss C I am more interested in those that do make it back, to find out what was or was not being done with their recovery prior to them picking up the booze again.
That in itself can be an excellent learning experience for me, and has continued all these years to be another deterent to 'trying it one more time.'
Thanks for starting this thread, I will be interested to see the responses.
Love and hugs,
Now Hugh had 9 years of sobriety when he decided that he was 'cured.' He went down so fast, it did shock him and he was usually unshockable. By the time he returned he was living in a card board box under a freeway, and this was a man who had made millions as an Electrical Contractor. His second time around he finally got honest and all of his shares whether just at a meeting for his own continuing sobriety or from the podium at one of his many speaking engagements, he talked a lot about what was happening before he went out, and the differences and what he learned upon his return.
At his passing in July of '92 he had 22 years of continuous sobriety. That man taught me a lot, I stil can hear his voice in me head to this day when working on a solution to something.
I cannot dwell on those that have to go back and drink some more, like you Miss C I am more interested in those that do make it back, to find out what was or was not being done with their recovery prior to them picking up the booze again.
That in itself can be an excellent learning experience for me, and has continued all these years to be another deterent to 'trying it one more time.'
Thanks for starting this thread, I will be interested to see the responses.
Love and hugs,
Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 18,299
I stopped going to meetings and working my program, I also was suffering with daily chronic headaches-so bad all I could do was go to bed and wait for the pain to pass. This pain went on for months and depressed me a lot.
I had been sober 6 months and attending meetings, trying to work the steps, I had a sponsor and a home group...but in a way I was detached from it all, I was doing it because I believed it was the right thing to do but I struggled with understanding the program as it applied to me. I treated it as a chore even though I could feel the benefit at times.
It reminds me of something I read about Buddhism and meditation, it was something like...it isnt an Eastern trip, some kind of add-on to your life, it is YOUR trip.
Now I am 19 days sober again and am starting to think of the program in that way too, its not Bill Ws trip or my AA friends trip or my sponsors trip...it is mine and I am only responsible to myself as far as my own recovery goes.
Although I havent been back to a meeting yet I have been following the program in my own way, this way happens to correspond to my Buddhist practice. I dont care if certain people in AA think that is wrong. That thought is freeing to me and I think I will be attending a meeting soon...because I want to.
I had been sober 6 months and attending meetings, trying to work the steps, I had a sponsor and a home group...but in a way I was detached from it all, I was doing it because I believed it was the right thing to do but I struggled with understanding the program as it applied to me. I treated it as a chore even though I could feel the benefit at times.
It reminds me of something I read about Buddhism and meditation, it was something like...it isnt an Eastern trip, some kind of add-on to your life, it is YOUR trip.
Now I am 19 days sober again and am starting to think of the program in that way too, its not Bill Ws trip or my AA friends trip or my sponsors trip...it is mine and I am only responsible to myself as far as my own recovery goes.
Although I havent been back to a meeting yet I have been following the program in my own way, this way happens to correspond to my Buddhist practice. I dont care if certain people in AA think that is wrong. That thought is freeing to me and I think I will be attending a meeting soon...because I want to.
One Day At A Time
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: U.K.
Posts: 195
I've been going to meetings since sept 2007. For me it was all about unacceptance. I could admit i was an alcoholic but accepting it was another sotry. I believe being 20 had something to do with it - but my mum got sober at 18 and my dad 27 so i knew this disease didnt discriminate against age etc. I guess i was just still mentally obsessed. Despite getting on the program i let my 'stinking thinking' overwhelm me and didnt share. I was resentful and full of major self pity! So in december i went out to prove i could drink normally.
Needless to say it was a disaster from the get go. One of the valuable things i learnt it just how progressive the illness is - i went from being a binger to a drinking every day. I knew deep down i was an alcoholic but didnt want to face up to it. For me im glad i went bakc out for those 6 weeks because when i got back to AA in jan 28 2008 i had no doubts - and dont today. I know now im an alcoholic. It would have been nice if i could have stayed in AA and just believed all the YETS could happen to me, but im defiant and it was simply my journey to go back out and get some first hand experiences of those YETS! Im eternally grateful i got back though- and i have a chance of sobriety, i have a wonderufl fellowship and an amazing program. So many ppl- including ppl i've known have to die from this. We really are the lucky ones. When i start feeling sorry for myself i remember that.
Needless to say it was a disaster from the get go. One of the valuable things i learnt it just how progressive the illness is - i went from being a binger to a drinking every day. I knew deep down i was an alcoholic but didnt want to face up to it. For me im glad i went bakc out for those 6 weeks because when i got back to AA in jan 28 2008 i had no doubts - and dont today. I know now im an alcoholic. It would have been nice if i could have stayed in AA and just believed all the YETS could happen to me, but im defiant and it was simply my journey to go back out and get some first hand experiences of those YETS! Im eternally grateful i got back though- and i have a chance of sobriety, i have a wonderufl fellowship and an amazing program. So many ppl- including ppl i've known have to die from this. We really are the lucky ones. When i start feeling sorry for myself i remember that.
Follow Directions!
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Fredericksburg, Va.
Posts: 9,730
I think I will be attending a meeting soon...because I want to.
This is a great thread Miss C, I have not relapsed since I got into AA. that is not to say that another program may not have worked for me, but AA is the program that has worked for me.
I always pay really close attention to anyone who shares about a relapse whether they are in AA or another program, or doing it on thier own.
The one thing I have seen in all cases of relapse is a slipping away from doing what ever it was that got and kept them sober.
Forward we go...side by side-Rest In Peace
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Serene In Dixie
Posts: 36,740
Each time I drank again.....I was not paying attention to
H.A.L.T.
I was hungry...angry...lonely or tired
2 or 3 of these elements were in place...:burned
H.A.L.T.
I was hungry...angry...lonely or tired
2 or 3 of these elements were in place...:burned
Member
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 12,136
I relapsed twice in the seven years I have been in recovery. Both times, although I was still going to meetings, I wasn't connecting with others, and I was involved in relationships that were not healthy. I shifted the focus from me onto my partner.
I'm in a relatively new relationship today, and I've been struggling with my sobriety. I haven't been going to as many meetings, I feel disconnected spiritually, and I've not been behaving like a person who is in recovery. I've been on a dry drunk of sorts. I've been careful to heed these red flags, and to see them for what they are. I spent time with my sponsor and another close friend this weekend, and got honest. Together, we came up with a plan to renew my commitment to recovery. I'm not out of the woods yet, but at least I can see the clearing just ahead.
I'm in a relatively new relationship today, and I've been struggling with my sobriety. I haven't been going to as many meetings, I feel disconnected spiritually, and I've not been behaving like a person who is in recovery. I've been on a dry drunk of sorts. I've been careful to heed these red flags, and to see them for what they are. I spent time with my sponsor and another close friend this weekend, and got honest. Together, we came up with a plan to renew my commitment to recovery. I'm not out of the woods yet, but at least I can see the clearing just ahead.
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: in the present moment
Posts: 2,060
Originally Posted by Rowan 
....I wasn't connecting with others, and I was involved in relationships that were not healthy. I shifted the focus from me onto my partner.
I'm in a relatively new relationship today, and I've been struggling with my sobriety. I haven't been going to as many meetings, I feel disconnected spiritually, and I've not been behaving like a person who is in recovery. I've been on a dry drunk of sorts. .
I'm in a relatively new relationship today, and I've been struggling with my sobriety. I haven't been going to as many meetings, I feel disconnected spiritually, and I've not been behaving like a person who is in recovery. I've been on a dry drunk of sorts. .
Rowan,
yup. Relationships (or my part in them anyway) have taken me down, and out, so fast i didn't see it coming. Now i DO keep my eyes wide open. one day at a time.
You sound clear and good and you deserve the very best!!
Guest
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Birmingham, AL
Posts: 1,924
If drinking is an option the Alcoholic will always drink. I could never experience sobreity until I was really to believe that drinking was no longer an option. Until I met Ron M. in the parking lot of the Washington House in Ft Wayne, IN back some years ago, I never believed there was ever going to be a time that I would have a new life. When Ron gave me the concept of "being full" I finally realized after relapsing for 25 plus years that I had always life the door open to those situations that only a drink would cure.
What really cemented the notice that the option to drink no longer existed was the concept of "being full" truly represented by the drinking history of the Fourth Step. When I honesty looked at the amount of booze I had drank and the cost to others and self over the years with available memory the choice to begin to believe that "being full" provided the firmest ground I had stood on in years. Every Drunk has to come to terms with the ABC's of a new life; I can't, He can, why don't I let Him. It's the I can't that stops many and I was one. All the excuses in the world would never fully sanction the next round of drinking, but it happens all the same if I hang on to the option to drink. This is powerlessness in it pure form. Next, I needed supreme help to stay sober. The relapser knows how to quit, but does not have the ability to stay quit. Finding something Greater than I along with my new found hope that their could be a life after booze moved me forward.
What really cemented the notice that the option to drink no longer existed was the concept of "being full" truly represented by the drinking history of the Fourth Step. When I honesty looked at the amount of booze I had drank and the cost to others and self over the years with available memory the choice to begin to believe that "being full" provided the firmest ground I had stood on in years. Every Drunk has to come to terms with the ABC's of a new life; I can't, He can, why don't I let Him. It's the I can't that stops many and I was one. All the excuses in the world would never fully sanction the next round of drinking, but it happens all the same if I hang on to the option to drink. This is powerlessness in it pure form. Next, I needed supreme help to stay sober. The relapser knows how to quit, but does not have the ability to stay quit. Finding something Greater than I along with my new found hope that their could be a life after booze moved me forward.
Follow Directions!
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Fredericksburg, Va.
Posts: 9,730
That was a powerful post Rufus and thinking back to me sitting across from that doctor and for the first time in my life telling someone the truth about how much, how long, how often, and what happened to me, in regards to my drinking pretty much convinced me I was full, because after that I was more then willing to do what ever it took to get and stay sober. Looking back on that day I am more then convinced I am full.
Speaking of full we have a gal in my area that was known as the "Queen of Relapse" It took her 5 years in AA before she finally full, she has almost 2 years know and I heard her speak one time and she said the last beer she had she only drank half of it and decided she was full!!!!
Speaking of full we have a gal in my area that was known as the "Queen of Relapse" It took her 5 years in AA before she finally full, she has almost 2 years know and I heard her speak one time and she said the last beer she had she only drank half of it and decided she was full!!!!
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