RufusACanal

Paulos, Man up! You don't have to leave, simply get to work on you! Keep coming back it works if you work it!

Jokerman

"Sober For Good" - by Anne M Fletcher was a good one to show that AA is not necessarily the way.
"The Thinking Persons Guide to Sobriety" by Bert Pluymen is also good.
I don't know of any helpful video games but try reading something that suits you. You may find it a big help.
Willpower is the key - you will find it somewhere inside you.

Dee74

if someone could explain to me the difference between tough love and invective, I'd be much obliged...as alkies we all already know how to beat ourselves up...that's not what we need help with here, IMO...

I hope you keep coming back here Paulos, and I hope you search out all your options and find help

D

paulmh

It's a fair question Dee.

If we all agree that everyone has to hit their own bottom, and nothing that any of us can do will either speed up that process or delay it, are we telling tough truths? Or are we showboating?

sugErspun

I will save you the time and money, it says right in the big book that AA is not necessarily the way.

"Upon therapy for the alcoholic himself, we surely have no monopoly"

Big Book On Line - Foreword to second edition


Did someone say that it was?

stone

I hope you stick around Paulos, nearly all of us wanted to quit for years before we did it, nearly all of us wanted to do it our own way for years too...my only advice is to try something different, whatever it is.

nandm

Dee you pose a very relevant question. IMHO tough love is saying I will no longer stand by and watch you kill yourself, I have offered to help you, offered my experience, offered different solutions but you still refuse to change the behavior that is killing you. When you are ready to change and reach out to the hands that are offered I will be here but until then I can no longer offer anything to help you. The intent here is good will not ill will. The person wants the best for the individual and can no longer stand by and watch them destroy themselves.

Invective is done with bitterness and ill will. It is accusatory and mean. It is insulting and abusive by nature. It has nothing to do with helping someone it is about tearing them down. It is a violent denuciation. Personally I have not seen any of that here. Everyone here wishes Paulos only the best and truly hopes that one day he finds the help he needs.

Personally, I am at the tough love phase of all this. I can no longer be a part of watching the insanity of him doing the same thing over and over again and then wondering why he keeps getting the same results. If one is unwilliing to take the hands of help offered then how long are the hands supposed to just hang their waiting. If and when Paulos is ready to participate in finding sobriety rather than the insanity of it I will gladly extend my help and support. Until then I am done.

splendra

(((((paulos))))

I am sorry you are having a hard time right now. Basically recovery is up to the individual. I have to want to stay clean ya know. My H is sitting out in the driveway getting high right now and it really pisses me off ya know. My siblings are all living off my mom and dope is the only thing they care about.

That does not mean I ought to go get some tequila and some crank and join them. At first it was hard for me to stay clean but every day became easier and before I knew it I was a year sober. A long time ago the voice of my addiction was a snarling growling monster now it is a pathetic sniveling coward. It has been over 20 years for me now and I know I feel better and look better than all the others in my life who are still active. People think my sister who is 14 years younger than me is my older sister. I know it is because I am clean and she is not.

Hang in there we need you here.

LosingmyMisery

I wanted sobriety to just happen. I wanted to wake up one day and have all of my problems solved, then reality hit. If I want change in my life, it is up to me to make it happen.

We all want that. Then we realize we couldn't do it on our own. Time for plan B. There comes a point in our lives when we have to quit running away from what we don't like, hear, or don't want to face. If we want to get better, we must face our demons. It is as simple as that.

softerlouder

Ok Paulos. I have been reading your posts for a few weeks. I am going to give you my story. Maybe it will offer some insight in yours.

8 years ago I went through some heavy heavy traumatic life changing events. I had always been an anxious person/borderline so called anxiety disorder occasional OCD type thinking. Guess what, it was labeled a disorder so it could be treated with medicine. In the past it was just called stress.

Unfortunatly I was put on meds. Each one I took I just got sicker. I was a total experiment and I was getting sicker. The funny thing is I had no idea that I was getting sicker because of the meds. I thought WOW I am done, my life is over I am broken, even the drugs aren't working and I am getting sicker.

Eventually one of the drugs stuck and I improved. It was slow. But soon 4 years went by and I realized, I gained weight, I eat horrible food, I am emotionless, I sleep 18 hours a day and still feel tired. I realized 4 years went by and I was a blur of nothing.

I told my doc, he changed meds and I got a little sick and then felt great but couldn't sleep, was always hyper. So they added in more meds. Soon I was drinking and had no idea why.

I was mixing at this point anxiety meds with a few drinks. Then one day I realized I hate this way of living. I hate feeling so tired and worn out. I hate being a zombie. So i quite C/T the anxiety med. The drinking wasn't everyday so that wasn't a big deal.

I then went through agony and terror and fear and weird obtrussive thoughts like I never ever knew. I was constantly stuck in this weird depressive scarey moment. It kept happening. I was feeling so mentally challenged. I was feeling suicidal but had no reason for it. I wanted to live but felt an urge to not. It was overwhelming and scarey. I felt trapped in my body, spaced out, I felt like I was getting these very OCD kind of thoughts. I couldn't relax. I couldn't breath. I couldn't do anything but crawl up and hide in the dark, all day, everyday, scared.

soon I took up drinking again. Instantly it was healing my pain. Instantly it was making me feel normal. I got sucked in and everyday I was drinking a few drinks. It worked. I kept at it.

At this point I finally realized the drugs were making me like this. I did some experiments and when I took the drugs I was better. I took it away and I was seriously messed up. I followed my doctors orders and it was all wrong.

I was going through drug withdrawal. I was in tolerance and then withdrawal as I tried to quit. I craved alcohol as a way to treat my pain. It worked. Eventually I did a slow taper off the drugs and drank the whole way through to aid my discomfort. It worked but I now realize the alcohol made the taper harder and made the recovery harder.

Here I am today, 4 years later. I have now spent the last 1 year doing the same thing. I got put back on anxiety medicine and got hooked and went into withdrawal and craved alcohol and seeked it out to help me thought the tough times.

Its all a trap. The problem is doctors do not know about withdrawal or they pretend it doesn't exist. You follow their instuctions on how to quit a medicine they put you on and usually its too too fast and puts you in withdrawal.

For me this led to drinking.

I am now alcohol free for 5 days. I never drank much. Just 3-4 beers max, usually just 2. I tapered down the alcohol and now plan on tapering slowly off the medicine without the aid of alcohol.

My complaint is simple. The medicines made me sicker, due to poor advice from a doctor. This led me to being scared and lost and seeking out ways to self medicate. Its all I could do as I had no idea what was happening.
Now I know what happened. I went too quickly off prescription drugs and in return went through torture. This scared the hell out of me and led to drinking.

My advice, stay away from the alcohol. Find a NEW doctor and then get a second opinion. Then do your own research. Make sure you taper slowly off a medicine, if you went too quickly maybe talk to a doctor about reinstating and then trying a super slow taper. Its possible that on top of your alcohol problems your taper from prescription was too fast and has left you ultra vulnerable. You seem lost and you keep trying to find a solution with a drink. The drink worked for me but in the end it was a band aid. It worked in the moment but prolonged the agony. In the end I just needed to do the safe way of getting off the medicines. I wish I never started them but thats another story. Get a few medicial opinions and do some homework.

I do have to say for me, I was in counseling all through this and tried AA and church. None of it worked. It didn't work because I was confused I had no idea what was wrong. The advice I was given I kept trying but yet I was still failing. I confused every professional around me.

I have now researched the medicines I have been taking and all the problems I was having fit 100% with the withdrawal side effects. These side effects led me to drink and kept me drinking.

The counseling did help in one way. It gave me someone to talk to so I wasn't so trapped within myself.

Its taken a lot of work but I think I am on the right path and in time I will heal. You can too.

lovingseren

Paulos,
I have never written to you before, but I have watched your progress/time here with interest.
I am going to be completely honest with you, I think you have a lot more issues than just plain old alcoholism, I think you need more help than this forum, or any other forum can give you.
I think you need to be on proper meds, and remove yourself from booze, drugs and your computer. I think you need professional help from the mental health community, and I think you need it ASAP.
I think that nothing changes if nothing changes, and if all these fine people, especially Taz, have put so much time and energy into helping you and guiding you, and you still can't see what you must do for yourself, then it's time for a COMPLETE CHANGE.

Please Re Read Tazman's posts.

There is a whole new life out there waiting for you Paulos, but YOU must open the door.

Seren
( who has seen too many alcoholics bleed out.)

Aysha

You hit that one right on the head.
If everyone gave up on me after my countless attempts..attention seeking...false starts..no starts...giving up...F it all to hells..
Boy I sure wouldnt even be alive.
Thank God for the patience of my grams. Without her unconditional hope and support. I surely wouldnt be here typing this.
I dont know about you guys..But I spent alot of time on that pity trip. Any attention was good enough for me when I was feeling like I wanted to end it all right there.
SO what...Eventually I did get it. And I am not on a stable path but I am holding up pretty well.
And it took me all of my adult life.'
I spent many a days in my grams bed. Only place I felt safe.
I dont know or care what the real deal is. I just know someone obviously is in need of help.
And if I cant do nothing more than just nod and say its ok..than whatever.
If it makes that person feel just a tiny bit better. Than my purpose was served.
There is no requirment to read or post anything here.

chip

Paulos,
Everyone here wants to see you get better. Many of us suggest getting help because we know how hard it is to do it alone. I don't know any sober member on this forum who did it all by him/her self. If there is, I hope he/she will *speak up*.....

Admitting defeat, and surrendering can turn your greatest weakness into your greatest strength. If you don't believe me, there are millions of people who stay sober with the help of some sort of recovery program.

You are a good person, and you DESERVE to live better. Nobody does this alone. You are not alone, Paulos...there are pepople here and in your local recovery community who would love to help you.
chip

Freedom1990

One of my first sponsors was a crusty little old lady already in her 70's, and she volunteered full-time at a nursing home with social activities for the residents.

She believed in staying active in all aspects of her life, and giving back to others for all the years she had taken from society.

She gave me a lot of tough love, and I am grateful for that today.

I clearly remember stopping by her house one day, just brimming over with self-pity, and looking for someone to feel sorry for me.

She sat and listened to me till I was done talking.

She looked me straight in the eye and said 'Do you know where you can find sympathy? It's between sh*t and syphillis in the dictionary."

That old gal was wise beyond her years, and knew this was a life or death situation for me. She did not sugar coat anything.

Sitting on the pity pot does put a nice ugly red ring on your hind end.

Personally I'd rather have a ring-free hind end myself!

unigirl

Paulos i would like to say that my post was just my personal opinion - everyone is different and i although i stand by my opinion with regards to my own recovery- i realise everyone is different. Action is the key though- getting up and doing something about this - whatever it is- (and not alone as it isnt working for you, and hasnt for most alcoholics i have heard).

FightingIrish

Ohmygod, my father used to say that. (He was an unrecovered alcoholic...)

It actually came to mind in this situation...