3rd Try
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: England
Posts: 108
3rd Try
Last night I had been drinking and tried to post a thread, it was honest and gritty but I got down on paper how I felt, I just needed to share it. This morning , sober and no hangover I dont feel that I can be as blunt.
I am angry, I had a strict Catholic upbringingwith plenty of mental and direct pain. I am angry with my parents, the church ,God in particular ( which is why I struggle with AA) stuff in general.
I have a great wife , 3 good kids a good job really what should be a good life.
But I drink, total self destruct. I drink because I cant let go of the past, I so want to erase the old stuff and move on. There are so many better things in my life than the old stuff. Why is it that old guilt is stronger than the good stuff.
Anyway thats pretty well my rant. like others I am going for blood tests tomorrow to see what I have done to my liver and then try and stop again, I really want to , I just seem incapable.
Its nice to be back
Peter
I am angry, I had a strict Catholic upbringingwith plenty of mental and direct pain. I am angry with my parents, the church ,God in particular ( which is why I struggle with AA) stuff in general.
I have a great wife , 3 good kids a good job really what should be a good life.
But I drink, total self destruct. I drink because I cant let go of the past, I so want to erase the old stuff and move on. There are so many better things in my life than the old stuff. Why is it that old guilt is stronger than the good stuff.
Anyway thats pretty well my rant. like others I am going for blood tests tomorrow to see what I have done to my liver and then try and stop again, I really want to , I just seem incapable.
Its nice to be back
Peter
Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 17
That's unfortunate. From the sounds of it you've got a lot of positive things going on, it could be much worse.
I understand the guilt part, even if it wasn't necessarily your fault, guilt is a difficult burden to bare. Still, you've got to look at the positive and prove your worth. Sometimes retrospective thinking can help propel you into the future.
If we learn nothing from our past, then we've learned nothing at all.
I understand the guilt part, even if it wasn't necessarily your fault, guilt is a difficult burden to bare. Still, you've got to look at the positive and prove your worth. Sometimes retrospective thinking can help propel you into the future.
If we learn nothing from our past, then we've learned nothing at all.
Follow Directions!
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Fredericksburg, Va.
Posts: 9,730
Welcome back Peter, the past darn near killed me, that and my constantly trying to quit drinking my way! Like you I could not let go of the past, I spent more time in the past feeling guilty and worrying about the future then I did anything else except drinking, drinking for many years took care of both my past and my future.
I finally reached a point where I saw my own slow death due to alcoholism in my future and admitted to myself that I had to quit drinking but I did not know how because my way always failed me miserably after trying it for 10 years.
I had no idea what to do, but I had become willing to do what ever it took to get and stay sober! I went and saw a doctor and told him the whole truth about my drinking. He sent me to detox, in detox after about 3 days I started to understand that they were telling me if I wanted a chance to stay sober when I got out I needed to go to 90 AA meetings in 90 days and get a sponsor.
Well I was at the point where I was willing to do anything to stay sober so I did that.
I found out very quickly that there is no church or religion in AA, that the God spokken of in AA was not some religions God or some one elses God, the God spoken of in AA is simply a Power Greater then myself that I understand!
I do not have to tell anyone else what the Power Greater then myself that I understand is! No one ask me about him, I could call my Higher Power Charlie if I wish, as long as I beleive that he is more powerful then me or alcohol that is all I need.
Spirituality is the key to sobriety, not religion! If religion was the key there would be a ton of recovered alcoholics going to church becoming religous!
I found a solution to my alcoholism, but I had to be willing to do what ever it took to get and stay sober, because I came to the realization that my way did not work, I needed to follow the same path to sobriety that millions of alcoholics before me followed.
Now if AA is not for you then try other recovery programs, they are there because they work for folks who work them, just like AA works for those who work it.
Just be willing to try any program to get and stay sober, AA worked for me, it may not work for you, another program might.
I finally reached a point where I saw my own slow death due to alcoholism in my future and admitted to myself that I had to quit drinking but I did not know how because my way always failed me miserably after trying it for 10 years.
I had no idea what to do, but I had become willing to do what ever it took to get and stay sober! I went and saw a doctor and told him the whole truth about my drinking. He sent me to detox, in detox after about 3 days I started to understand that they were telling me if I wanted a chance to stay sober when I got out I needed to go to 90 AA meetings in 90 days and get a sponsor.
Well I was at the point where I was willing to do anything to stay sober so I did that.
I found out very quickly that there is no church or religion in AA, that the God spokken of in AA was not some religions God or some one elses God, the God spoken of in AA is simply a Power Greater then myself that I understand!
I do not have to tell anyone else what the Power Greater then myself that I understand is! No one ask me about him, I could call my Higher Power Charlie if I wish, as long as I beleive that he is more powerful then me or alcohol that is all I need.
Spirituality is the key to sobriety, not religion! If religion was the key there would be a ton of recovered alcoholics going to church becoming religous!
I found a solution to my alcoholism, but I had to be willing to do what ever it took to get and stay sober, because I came to the realization that my way did not work, I needed to follow the same path to sobriety that millions of alcoholics before me followed.
Now if AA is not for you then try other recovery programs, they are there because they work for folks who work them, just like AA works for those who work it.
Just be willing to try any program to get and stay sober, AA worked for me, it may not work for you, another program might.
Attitude of Gratitude
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Dayton, Ohio
Posts: 2,305
First of all, Tazman, well said my friend!
Pete, Welcome Back! I could identify with so much of what you said. I too was raised Catholic and it seemed to also put a difficult twist on trying to find a God of My Understanding when I first went into AA in 1980 and throughout my many, many times I tried up until I finally surrendered on July 25, 2005. I had to let go of the God that I was taught to fear in Church as a child. A God of your understanding is just that, of YOUR UNDERSTANDING! You create this God in your mind, what kind of God would you feel loved, accepted, forgiven by? You can even visualize Him however you want. I had to change my visual image of my God. I had always pictured God to be Jesus, the long haired guy with the beard and moustache. When I got into Recovery in 2005, I had to change that. My ex husband looked like that and I had worshiped him for many years. I'm not saying that for laughs, it's the truth. I visualize my God as someone when I'm feeling alone and afraid, He takes on the form of a Grandfatherly figure. I invision climbing into His lap like a child would when they need comforted. When I need to feel as though He is protecting me, I invision Him as a huge, rock of a man. When I need my God to just be my peaceful, serene Being, He takes on the form of beautiful clouds.
Now, I'm sure many, many people can laugh at this or think that I'm nuts. But you know what?
THIS IS A GOD OF MY UNDERSTANDING!
He is there for me, and only me. My God.
I will Pray that you will find the God of Your Understanding very soon. Once this happens, you will be able to face anything. You will be able to let go of the hurts and pain from the past, just like I have in order for me to move on. The Promises of AA will come true. They have for this alcoholic/addict.
God Bless & Thank God . . . Just for Today
Judy:ghug
Pete, Welcome Back! I could identify with so much of what you said. I too was raised Catholic and it seemed to also put a difficult twist on trying to find a God of My Understanding when I first went into AA in 1980 and throughout my many, many times I tried up until I finally surrendered on July 25, 2005. I had to let go of the God that I was taught to fear in Church as a child. A God of your understanding is just that, of YOUR UNDERSTANDING! You create this God in your mind, what kind of God would you feel loved, accepted, forgiven by? You can even visualize Him however you want. I had to change my visual image of my God. I had always pictured God to be Jesus, the long haired guy with the beard and moustache. When I got into Recovery in 2005, I had to change that. My ex husband looked like that and I had worshiped him for many years. I'm not saying that for laughs, it's the truth. I visualize my God as someone when I'm feeling alone and afraid, He takes on the form of a Grandfatherly figure. I invision climbing into His lap like a child would when they need comforted. When I need to feel as though He is protecting me, I invision Him as a huge, rock of a man. When I need my God to just be my peaceful, serene Being, He takes on the form of beautiful clouds.
Now, I'm sure many, many people can laugh at this or think that I'm nuts. But you know what?
THIS IS A GOD OF MY UNDERSTANDING!
He is there for me, and only me. My God.
I will Pray that you will find the God of Your Understanding very soon. Once this happens, you will be able to face anything. You will be able to let go of the hurts and pain from the past, just like I have in order for me to move on. The Promises of AA will come true. They have for this alcoholic/addict.
God Bless & Thank God . . . Just for Today
Judy:ghug
Forward we go...side by side-Rest In Peace
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Serene In Dixie
Posts: 36,740
Hi again Peter....
...Welcome back!
Ok....no AA for you?
Then get another recovery program for support.
Please check out the 3rd sticky post for a list.
I've always thought SMART has an interesting approach.
Keep posting with us....good to see you here.
...Welcome back!Ok....no AA for you?
Then get another recovery program for support.
Please check out the 3rd sticky post for a list.
I've always thought SMART has an interesting approach.
Keep posting with us....good to see you here.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Born in Long Island NY/Mtns of N.C Is my home now
Posts: 405
Pete, kinda harsh but the past and guilt of drinking and the wake of crap i left behind is a ugly ******* that i deal with each and everyday, i go to a thearpist for that , and it seems to help me. I started drinking when i was 15 and i am now 40 yrs old, i have a rather large bucket of s@#& that i carry and i know that if i am not carefull it will bring the old booze back.
Just talk to someone you can trust with you past and guilt , it seems to help just talking about it..
Take care,
John
Just talk to someone you can trust with you past and guilt , it seems to help just talking about it..
Take care,
John
Life the gift of recovery!
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Home is where the heart is
Posts: 7,061
Pete, I can totally relate to the angry at God and the intolerance of the God stuff. I was in the same boat. Today I still struggle with some of the same issues except what I have done different is finally realized there is a difference between religion and spirituality. I still do not consider myself religious in any way but consider the program of AA a lifesaver. That is because I am spiritual and that is what I utilize in my program of AA. I still have very little use for organized religion. I have no problems with others believing what ever they need to believe to stay sober and if religion is what it takes for them, then more power to them.
AA still may not be the program for you. Check out our secular boards, lots of sobriety there. Also as Carol said check out the sticky at the top of the Alcoholism forum it has links to many recovery programs some of which do not have the Higher Power thing. Good luck on your quest for sobriety.
AA still may not be the program for you. Check out our secular boards, lots of sobriety there. Also as Carol said check out the sticky at the top of the Alcoholism forum it has links to many recovery programs some of which do not have the Higher Power thing. Good luck on your quest for sobriety.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,697
Originally Posted by icecream pete 
I am angry with my parents, the church ,God in particular ( which is why I struggle with AA) stuff in general.
That is all AA says...be willing to believe, even if you have no understanding of God - that is all the better, you are open to experience (that's where it's really at anyways - the experience, not the knowledge).
I was raised catholic, I found God in doing the twelve steps.
I am at peace with the Church, even though I am not a member.
All things good come this way....
Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Vancouver BC
Posts: 386
Peter,
Prior to getting into recovery I focused all my anger and resentment on my past, on the people in my past and on myself.....you know I did that for a great many years, and it didn't get me anywhere....except throwing up blood and losing my self and my soul....closely followed by my family.
What I did do finally, was to start looking for help....I went to my doctor...I attended some meetings of 2 different programs, I went on line and found a program that spoke to me and my angry,sad heart.
I embraced it, and I learned to embrace myself, and as time went on, I began to lose the anger, the resentment....sure I had to name it, claim it and then reframe it, but I put it away....where it belongs.....in the past.
I am alive right here and now, so are my kids and those I love, I am growing in leaps and bounds, now that I am no longer living in the shadows.
It's time to come out now, open the door, let the light in, in whatever way speaks to you best.
This is your time now Peter.
Seren
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...-programs.html
Prior to getting into recovery I focused all my anger and resentment on my past, on the people in my past and on myself.....you know I did that for a great many years, and it didn't get me anywhere....except throwing up blood and losing my self and my soul....closely followed by my family.
What I did do finally, was to start looking for help....I went to my doctor...I attended some meetings of 2 different programs, I went on line and found a program that spoke to me and my angry,sad heart.
I embraced it, and I learned to embrace myself, and as time went on, I began to lose the anger, the resentment....sure I had to name it, claim it and then reframe it, but I put it away....where it belongs.....in the past.
I am alive right here and now, so are my kids and those I love, I am growing in leaps and bounds, now that I am no longer living in the shadows.
It's time to come out now, open the door, let the light in, in whatever way speaks to you best.
This is your time now Peter.
Seren
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...-programs.html
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: England
Posts: 108
What is the trigger that makes the difference? The difference between you guys who are getting on with recovery and me , wallowing around wanting to change but actually seem incapable or maybe scared of the unknown, a future sober , at least I know where I am today even if its c**p. I really appreciate the responses you guys have given me and I have looked at the other programmes available in the last couple of days. Maybe I will always find a reason to drink and an excuse not to stop, I really dont know, its sad. thanks for being here. Pete
Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Michigan
Posts: 1,381
Hi Pete
I to had so much guilt from the past. I know I cannot change a thing about it. But every stupid, messed up thing I did. I was drunk when I did it. I would not even dream of doing what I did back then today.
Having a clear mind I do not make the bad choices anymore. I have been sober almost as long as I was drinking. Thanks for your thread because it has shown me the difference in myself.
Hope you stick around.
I to had so much guilt from the past. I know I cannot change a thing about it. But every stupid, messed up thing I did. I was drunk when I did it. I would not even dream of doing what I did back then today.
Having a clear mind I do not make the bad choices anymore. I have been sober almost as long as I was drinking. Thanks for your thread because it has shown me the difference in myself.
Hope you stick around.
Follow Directions!
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Fredericksburg, Va.
Posts: 9,730
I had to name it, claim it and then reframe it, but I put it away....where it belongs.....in the past.
Pete you ask:
What is the trigger that makes the difference?
My bottom was a moment of clarity, I was given a gift to be able to see my future if I kept on drinking, the future I was allowed to see was the lose of every single material thing I owned and all of my family in less the a years time, leaving me with nothing but my drinking myself to a slow alcoholic death!
Some peoples bottom is a lot higher then mine was, some folks was lower, it does not matter, I think most people hit thier bottom when they feel they have either lost thier very souls to alcohol or are close to doing so.
I knew I was at my bottom when I became willing to do what ever I had to do to stay stopped drinking.
Are you willing to do what ever it takes to gewt and stay sober?
Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico
Posts: 565
The past doesn't exist, only the future does.
If I let my past define my present, there would be a dead Texasblind in front of you.
I have a ton of guilt about my past. I can't get it back. I can't have my ex-wife back, I can't have my ex-life back. But I can move forward and live life positively. I can not drink and be the man I used to be. Pick it up by the bootstraps. That's my motto.
If I let my past define my present, there would be a dead Texasblind in front of you.
I have a ton of guilt about my past. I can't get it back. I can't have my ex-wife back, I can't have my ex-life back. But I can move forward and live life positively. I can not drink and be the man I used to be. Pick it up by the bootstraps. That's my motto.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: 49 degrees north
Posts: 1,036
The difference?
I think a lot of us found the appeal of gain outweighed the fear of pain.
If you keep focusing on what you will "miss" about drinking for example, you cannot focus upon what you are missing from life because of drinking.
So, a lot of it is mindset and planning. I doubt you'll wake up one morning and say "Ah, today would be a great day to fly to Japan!" Then call a taxi and head for the airport without even packing a bag. Goofy analogy? Think about it.
Set yourself up for success. Want it, then plan for it.
Good luck!!
warrens
I think a lot of us found the appeal of gain outweighed the fear of pain.
If you keep focusing on what you will "miss" about drinking for example, you cannot focus upon what you are missing from life because of drinking.
So, a lot of it is mindset and planning. I doubt you'll wake up one morning and say "Ah, today would be a great day to fly to Japan!" Then call a taxi and head for the airport without even packing a bag. Goofy analogy? Think about it.
Set yourself up for success. Want it, then plan for it.
Good luck!!
warrens
Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,002
God doesent make religions. People make religions. I had to focus on my relationship with God one on one. Not what others advised me on who or what God is. Heightening your relationship with God is a personal thing.
It helps to look at all the negative situations in our lives and focus on what our part we played into it. I too was brought up Catholic, and had issues with the church also. At one point I had to stop and think, do I have a problem with God, or do I have a problem with Catholicism, or just a specific church in general? And then ask myself, how many of these problems were of my own making?
There are really good people in all religious denominations, just like there are really bad people. It is the proactive unselfish actions of others that defines "good God loving folk".
You know, you do have the freedom to have your own concept of God. A God being simply a Power grater than yourself. You DO NOT have to put a face on God. God is not going to damn you because you did not join a "God fan club." These ideas and concepts came from people, not God. God speaks through the good and kind actions of others that act by Gods will.
As I have said before, one of God's greatest gifts he (or she for that matter) gave us was the power to make our own decisions. Some people abuse that power and decide what others need or have to do, including who they believe they need to worship. Most of us on this site live in countries that permit or should I say give us the freedom to decide who or what God is and are free to not believe in God if they wish.
Remember there are those in countries that can and have faced death for having their own concept of God. A government forced those to go to war and kill others for the sake of "their own version of God". These actions and decisions are not God's, their peoples.
England gives you the freedom of choice. Even those in countries that don't have that freedom, people can not actually make them really believe in someones elses version of God. The love and belief in your Higher Power comes from your heart and NO ONE can take that away from you.
To sum all this up, (I feel as if I'm rambling...lol) you ultimately have the choice to make your own decisions. Yes, some have made choices for us, but as we grew up and became an adults, we ultimately walk our path in life by our decision. We often have to ask ourselves, how many of our problems were actually of our own making?
Tom
It helps to look at all the negative situations in our lives and focus on what our part we played into it. I too was brought up Catholic, and had issues with the church also. At one point I had to stop and think, do I have a problem with God, or do I have a problem with Catholicism, or just a specific church in general? And then ask myself, how many of these problems were of my own making?
There are really good people in all religious denominations, just like there are really bad people. It is the proactive unselfish actions of others that defines "good God loving folk".
You know, you do have the freedom to have your own concept of God. A God being simply a Power grater than yourself. You DO NOT have to put a face on God. God is not going to damn you because you did not join a "God fan club." These ideas and concepts came from people, not God. God speaks through the good and kind actions of others that act by Gods will.
As I have said before, one of God's greatest gifts he (or she for that matter) gave us was the power to make our own decisions. Some people abuse that power and decide what others need or have to do, including who they believe they need to worship. Most of us on this site live in countries that permit or should I say give us the freedom to decide who or what God is and are free to not believe in God if they wish.
Remember there are those in countries that can and have faced death for having their own concept of God. A government forced those to go to war and kill others for the sake of "their own version of God". These actions and decisions are not God's, their peoples.
England gives you the freedom of choice. Even those in countries that don't have that freedom, people can not actually make them really believe in someones elses version of God. The love and belief in your Higher Power comes from your heart and NO ONE can take that away from you.
To sum all this up, (I feel as if I'm rambling...lol) you ultimately have the choice to make your own decisions. Yes, some have made choices for us, but as we grew up and became an adults, we ultimately walk our path in life by our decision. We often have to ask ourselves, how many of our problems were actually of our own making?
Tom
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: England
Posts: 108
HI Guys,
Thanks for all of the above, as always. I am really ready to stop, or at least a big part of me is. Ive already dug a pretty big hole and its time to stop digging, the trouble with booze I guess is the shovel just gets bigger till you cant lift it any more. I am 24 hours sober today, no flags cos Ive been here loads of times. I really have to make changes and seek help to do that, thanks for all the links. Being a drinker I expect a quick fix, its not going to happen that way is it. I have to give it time and be patient, (not strong points of mine).
Done a lot of thinking in the last 36 hours and not much sleeping.
As for God, He or She has been around a long time and is not going anywhere soon ,so I guess I will deal with that later. Anyway my anger is probably an excuse just like all the others.
So one day down (again!) was it Mao that said a great journey starts with a single step, something like that anyway!
Thanks
Pete
Thanks for all of the above, as always. I am really ready to stop, or at least a big part of me is. Ive already dug a pretty big hole and its time to stop digging, the trouble with booze I guess is the shovel just gets bigger till you cant lift it any more. I am 24 hours sober today, no flags cos Ive been here loads of times. I really have to make changes and seek help to do that, thanks for all the links. Being a drinker I expect a quick fix, its not going to happen that way is it. I have to give it time and be patient, (not strong points of mine).
Done a lot of thinking in the last 36 hours and not much sleeping.
As for God, He or She has been around a long time and is not going anywhere soon ,so I guess I will deal with that later. Anyway my anger is probably an excuse just like all the others.
So one day down (again!) was it Mao that said a great journey starts with a single step, something like that anyway!
Thanks
Pete
Follow Directions!
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Fredericksburg, Va.
Posts: 9,730
Being a drinker I expect a quick fix, its not going to happen that way is it. I have to give it time and be patient, (not strong points of mine).
No program of any type can work with out time and work!
Heck I would be willing to bet that every program would work if people worked them!
Time takes time, we alcoholics seem to need/want instant gratification, one of the reasons we drank so long, we see that instant gratification, we do not want to spend weeks & months working towards gratification, we want it NOW!!!! LOL
When I first went to AA I wanted 10 years sobriety handed to me because the folks I saw with that much time sober sure were a whole lot happier then I was!!! I learned that time takes time, things are not handed to me because I want them, I get things by working for them, not by just not drinking!
Just not drinking I learned before getting into AA was the impossible path to sobriety for me. I had to take action and change myself.
1 bite&all resistance crumbles
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: IRELAND
Posts: 2,208
Pete
Welcome back - some never make it back, so this is good and good for you! I remember from you from over the years and some of the very happy period of sobriety you had. Someone equally famous also said " Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result!!!"
Good luck Pete! AA works for me - and millions of others.
Cathy31
x
Welcome back - some never make it back, so this is good and good for you! I remember from you from over the years and some of the very happy period of sobriety you had. Someone equally famous also said " Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result!!!"
Good luck Pete! AA works for me - and millions of others.
Cathy31
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