Number vs Mentality
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1
Number vs Mentality
A co-worker and I were having this debate. I got pretty pissed about it, but I don't think he noticed. Does the number of drinks a person has define them as an alcoholic? Or is it their mentality? I'm firmly set in the mindset that it's merely the mentality. I don't mean whether or not you think you are, I mean why you drink.
Let me start by talking about myself. I'll drink whenever, as long as there's beer in the fridge. When I drink, it's usually just a 12 pack, and it's over the weekend. But my drinking is usually spread throughout the day. I might have one when I wake up, one at lunch, one at dinner. Maybe a couple more that night. Then the next day, if I feel like it, I'll have the rest throughout the day. Alternatively, I'll wind up with about 7 or more left over during the week, which I'll just drink whenever. Sometimes I like to get wasted, but not very often. I really enjoy drinking, but I don't consider it something I HAVE to do. Nor even something I really look forward to. I mean, it's nice to drink, and it's sort of a good topper to a meal, but I don't, like, crave it.
I might have a problem, but if I do then it's news to me. :-)
Now, my co-worker believes that if you drink x amount of drinks a day it makes you an alcoholic. Or "you can drink only on the weekends and still be an alcoholic." He says that's why he doesn't like to drink very often. I find this truly absurd! Someone doesn't want to drink for fear that they might be an alcoholic. Not for fear that he might BECOME an alcoholic, but fear that by drinking to much he qualifies as an alcoholic.
I hope this makes sense, it's kinda' late here (Japan) and it's sort of a strange question even when I'm awake. If it doesn't, I'll try to clarify as much as possible. And if you think I have a problem, please let me know. The only people that have told me that I have a problem are people that just plain out don't approve of alcohol in any way, shape, or form. Thanks!
~Iidhaegn
Let me start by talking about myself. I'll drink whenever, as long as there's beer in the fridge. When I drink, it's usually just a 12 pack, and it's over the weekend. But my drinking is usually spread throughout the day. I might have one when I wake up, one at lunch, one at dinner. Maybe a couple more that night. Then the next day, if I feel like it, I'll have the rest throughout the day. Alternatively, I'll wind up with about 7 or more left over during the week, which I'll just drink whenever. Sometimes I like to get wasted, but not very often. I really enjoy drinking, but I don't consider it something I HAVE to do. Nor even something I really look forward to. I mean, it's nice to drink, and it's sort of a good topper to a meal, but I don't, like, crave it.
I might have a problem, but if I do then it's news to me. :-)
Now, my co-worker believes that if you drink x amount of drinks a day it makes you an alcoholic. Or "you can drink only on the weekends and still be an alcoholic." He says that's why he doesn't like to drink very often. I find this truly absurd! Someone doesn't want to drink for fear that they might be an alcoholic. Not for fear that he might BECOME an alcoholic, but fear that by drinking to much he qualifies as an alcoholic.
I hope this makes sense, it's kinda' late here (Japan) and it's sort of a strange question even when I'm awake. If it doesn't, I'll try to clarify as much as possible. And if you think I have a problem, please let me know. The only people that have told me that I have a problem are people that just plain out don't approve of alcohol in any way, shape, or form. Thanks!
~Iidhaegn
Follow Directions!
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Fredericksburg, Va.
Posts: 9,730
It is not the amount one drinks or how often one drinks that determines if one is an alcoholic or not, it is what happens to one when they drinks that determines that.
Here is a quiz to take, Alcoholics Anonymous : be perfectly honest with your self in answering the questions keeping in mind that alcoholism is a progressive disease, if you are an alcoholic your disease will get worse with every drink, never better.
Here is a quiz to take, Alcoholics Anonymous : be perfectly honest with your self in answering the questions keeping in mind that alcoholism is a progressive disease, if you are an alcoholic your disease will get worse with every drink, never better.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 170
Welcome to SR its good to have you, great question. I have asked the very same thing many times. Thank you for bringing it to the forum. I do have a way you could end the debate but it may require some reading.
I’m an alcoholic of the hopeless Varity meaning I’ll pretty much drink myself to death, go insane, or have to be locked up if I am to live somewhat of a normal life. Doesn’t sound very normal does it? Well I have found a solution and that solution is found in Alcoholics Anonymous.
We have a basic text called the Big Book and you can find them at your local library or at a meeting in your area. Well maybe not the library because the books have been put on the most likely to be stolen list. By reading the book or at the very least browsing through its pages you may find an answer to your problem.
There are 42 personal stories in the back of the book. The first 10 stories deal with what could be called the Pioneers of this fellowship. All ten people now passed away and have remained bone dry their entire life all have died of natural causes.
The next 17 stories are about today’s incoming members and many of these members have never reached the advanced stages of alcoholism. I guess you could say they stopped in time. These people kept their jobs, kept their health, family, and friends. I have always been baffled at this type of person after all why bother with AA. Well these 17 people do their best to answer that question.
The last 15 stories deal with alcoholism at its miserable worst. These 15 stories tell of the hopelessness I have already spoken. Nothing worked and these stories prove it is never too late to join Alcoholics Anonymous.
If you are interested I can go into a much broader detail regarding the physical and mental stages of alcoholism. If you are interested your inquiry would greatly benefit me more than it would you but I will do my best to help.
It is best however if you come to your own conclusion regarding your current situation that is why I outlined the stories for you. If you find you can relate and want to give it up all together then there is a program of action outlined within the first 164 pages. I look forward to hearing from you and again welcome there is a solution.
I’m an alcoholic of the hopeless Varity meaning I’ll pretty much drink myself to death, go insane, or have to be locked up if I am to live somewhat of a normal life. Doesn’t sound very normal does it? Well I have found a solution and that solution is found in Alcoholics Anonymous.
We have a basic text called the Big Book and you can find them at your local library or at a meeting in your area. Well maybe not the library because the books have been put on the most likely to be stolen list. By reading the book or at the very least browsing through its pages you may find an answer to your problem.
There are 42 personal stories in the back of the book. The first 10 stories deal with what could be called the Pioneers of this fellowship. All ten people now passed away and have remained bone dry their entire life all have died of natural causes.
The next 17 stories are about today’s incoming members and many of these members have never reached the advanced stages of alcoholism. I guess you could say they stopped in time. These people kept their jobs, kept their health, family, and friends. I have always been baffled at this type of person after all why bother with AA. Well these 17 people do their best to answer that question.
The last 15 stories deal with alcoholism at its miserable worst. These 15 stories tell of the hopelessness I have already spoken. Nothing worked and these stories prove it is never too late to join Alcoholics Anonymous.
If you are interested I can go into a much broader detail regarding the physical and mental stages of alcoholism. If you are interested your inquiry would greatly benefit me more than it would you but I will do my best to help.
It is best however if you come to your own conclusion regarding your current situation that is why I outlined the stories for you. If you find you can relate and want to give it up all together then there is a program of action outlined within the first 164 pages. I look forward to hearing from you and again welcome there is a solution.
Retired Pro Drunk
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Saint Paul, MN
Posts: 901
The "official" criteria from the healthcare community is this:
A maladaptive pattern of substance use, leading to clinically significant impairment or distress, as manifested by three (or more) of the following, occurring at any time in the same 12-month period:
1. tolerance, as defined by either of the following:
a. a need for markedly increased amounts of the substance to achieve intoxication or
b. desired effect markedly diminished effect with continued use of the same amount of substance
2. withdrawal, as manifested by either of the following:
a. the characteristic withdrawal syndrome for the substance
b. the same (or a closely related) substance is taken to relieve or avoid withdrawal symptoms
3. the substance is often taken in larger amounts or over a longer period than was intended
4. there is a persistent desire or unsuccessful efforts to cut down or control substance use
5. a great deal of time is spent in activities to obtain the substance, use the substance, or recover from its effects
6. important social, occupational or recreational activities are given up or reduced because of substance use
7. the substance use is continued despite knowledge of having a persistent or recurrent physical or psychological problem that is likely to have been caused or exacerbated by the substance (e.g., continued drinking despite recognition that an ulcer was made worse by alcohol consumption)
From: Alcohol Abuse and Dependence - Diagnosis - mentalhealthchannel
A maladaptive pattern of substance use, leading to clinically significant impairment or distress, as manifested by three (or more) of the following, occurring at any time in the same 12-month period:
1. tolerance, as defined by either of the following:
a. a need for markedly increased amounts of the substance to achieve intoxication or
b. desired effect markedly diminished effect with continued use of the same amount of substance
2. withdrawal, as manifested by either of the following:
a. the characteristic withdrawal syndrome for the substance
b. the same (or a closely related) substance is taken to relieve or avoid withdrawal symptoms
3. the substance is often taken in larger amounts or over a longer period than was intended
4. there is a persistent desire or unsuccessful efforts to cut down or control substance use
5. a great deal of time is spent in activities to obtain the substance, use the substance, or recover from its effects
6. important social, occupational or recreational activities are given up or reduced because of substance use
7. the substance use is continued despite knowledge of having a persistent or recurrent physical or psychological problem that is likely to have been caused or exacerbated by the substance (e.g., continued drinking despite recognition that an ulcer was made worse by alcohol consumption)
From: Alcohol Abuse and Dependence - Diagnosis - mentalhealthchannel
Last edited by justanothrdrunk; 03-12-2008 at 08:53 AM. Reason: forgot source...
Life the gift of recovery!
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Home is where the heart is
Posts: 7,061
Interesting debate.
Here's my experience as an alcoholic.
It is about the obsession. Mine started with the first drink.
Here is an example of what I am talking about. I can remember as a teenager, three or four of us would get a case of Mickey's Big Mouth Ale. I was the one counting to make sure that I got my fair share and hoping someone wouldn't drink all of theirs so I could have it. I "obsessed" about it. From the time I first drank I, in one way or another, was thinking, "obsessing", about my next drink. Early in my drinking these thoughts were not consuming, they did not take up every waking moment. I could think about other things without too much difficulty. But I still planned for the weekend early in the week. As time went by the thoughts, "obsession", grew. It became more and more in the forefront of my thoughts. Until it finally got to the point that I constantly "obsessed" about when I would get my next drink. I had to bring an extra set of clothes to my job so I could change out of my uniform before I left so I could stop and buy a case for the drive home. I would drink until I passed out. My mind became completely obsessed with alcohol.
The obsession can start out subtle but it is there for the alcoholic. There may be a point where the alcoholic can if they completely stop drinking early in their drinking career stop the obsession on their own. But there does come a point for any alcoholic where the obsession gets to the point where it is nearly impossible for them to stop on their own power.
That's my thoughts and experience.
Here's my experience as an alcoholic.
It is about the obsession. Mine started with the first drink.
Here is an example of what I am talking about. I can remember as a teenager, three or four of us would get a case of Mickey's Big Mouth Ale. I was the one counting to make sure that I got my fair share and hoping someone wouldn't drink all of theirs so I could have it. I "obsessed" about it. From the time I first drank I, in one way or another, was thinking, "obsessing", about my next drink. Early in my drinking these thoughts were not consuming, they did not take up every waking moment. I could think about other things without too much difficulty. But I still planned for the weekend early in the week. As time went by the thoughts, "obsession", grew. It became more and more in the forefront of my thoughts. Until it finally got to the point that I constantly "obsessed" about when I would get my next drink. I had to bring an extra set of clothes to my job so I could change out of my uniform before I left so I could stop and buy a case for the drive home. I would drink until I passed out. My mind became completely obsessed with alcohol.
The obsession can start out subtle but it is there for the alcoholic. There may be a point where the alcoholic can if they completely stop drinking early in their drinking career stop the obsession on their own. But there does come a point for any alcoholic where the obsession gets to the point where it is nearly impossible for them to stop on their own power.
That's my thoughts and experience.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,697
I do not identify myself as having alcoholism because of the amount of liqour I drank, nor the time of day I drank it, nor what form it was in.
My opinion - alcoholism has nothing to do with how much (by volume) someone drinks, nor how often they drink.
My opinion - alcoholism has nothing to do with how much (by volume) someone drinks, nor how often they drink.
One Day At A Time
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: U.K.
Posts: 195
HI there, I agree with suger there, i do not think alcoholism is about quantity. It's more about the quality of your drinking if u like. Like a normal person could drink happily and relax - whereas my drinking was relaxed like this- my quality of drinking wasn't like a non alcoholics cos i was obsessed and was at disease with a drink- due to a physical craving.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,697
Originally Posted by scottnyc 
I don't join the debating society - if you work Step One, you can get a clear picture of what your drinking was like. I am an alcoholic, and have been granted a reprieve just for today
Was it how much you drank? How often?
For me, step 1 was not education about my drinking career. It was admitting that I will drink, no matter what. My experience abundantly confirms this.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 25
It's about your drinking! You need a clear picture of powerlessness and unmanagability. It's the foundation for all the remaining steps. Step one deals with drinking. the remainder deal with thinking
Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,697
Step one also deals with powerlessness and unmanageability as humans.
"Our lives had become unmanageable". The parts to step one (from my POV and experience)
1 - phsyical craving when I have a little - I need more
2 - mental obsession - I can't leave it alone
3 - spiritual malady - I am alone, different, I don't fit in - I am useless.
"Our lives had become unmanageable". The parts to step one (from my POV and experience)
1 - phsyical craving when I have a little - I need more
2 - mental obsession - I can't leave it alone
3 - spiritual malady - I am alone, different, I don't fit in - I am useless.
Forward we go...side by side-Rest In Peace
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Serene In Dixie
Posts: 36,740
Iidhaegn...Welcome to SR!
Some members are discussing Step 1....
they are talking about the program of Alcoholics Anonymous.
Just to clarify for you.
I have no clue as to the AA resources are in Japan.
Nor do I know if you are interested in AA.
As I understand your topic...
you are only asking what makes an alcoholic.
Please continue to share with us
It's good to see a new member.
Some members are discussing Step 1....
they are talking about the program of Alcoholics Anonymous.
Just to clarify for you.
I have no clue as to the AA resources are in Japan.
Nor do I know if you are interested in AA.
As I understand your topic...
you are only asking what makes an alcoholic.
Please continue to share with us
It's good to see a new member.
problem with authority
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 870
For me it's a little of both. I certainly drank habitually and to excess. My life was also unmanageable. What tripped me up was that I could "control my drinking when I wanted to." (What this really was was a mini-recovery/relapse cycle.)
But yeah, I never got too drunk at the company Christmas party or anything...I was always sure only to let my hair down alone or with friends who didn't mind my embarrassing and hurtful shenanigans.
What really sold it for me (other than being arrested) was identifying with one of the stories in the BB (a newer story, I think, by a woman) where she writes something like, "when I enjoyed my drinking, I couldn't control it; and when I controlled my drinking, I couldn't enjoy it."
That's the truth for me right there. Put one drink into me, and I go into my own head, paying attention only to what I am feeling and how and when I can get more of it. Nothing else matters at that point, unless the externals are so potentially damaging that I have to control it. But I'm never happy or content when I'm sitting there with my empty glass watching others blithely lingering over theirs.
-M
But yeah, I never got too drunk at the company Christmas party or anything...I was always sure only to let my hair down alone or with friends who didn't mind my embarrassing and hurtful shenanigans.
What really sold it for me (other than being arrested) was identifying with one of the stories in the BB (a newer story, I think, by a woman) where she writes something like, "when I enjoyed my drinking, I couldn't control it; and when I controlled my drinking, I couldn't enjoy it."
That's the truth for me right there. Put one drink into me, and I go into my own head, paying attention only to what I am feeling and how and when I can get more of it. Nothing else matters at that point, unless the externals are so potentially damaging that I have to control it. But I'm never happy or content when I'm sitting there with my empty glass watching others blithely lingering over theirs.
-M
Originally Posted by CarolD
I knew I was an alcoholic when I continued to drink
despite my efforts to abstain.
Thats my personal experience.
Again...Welcome!
despite my efforts to abstain.
Thats my personal experience.
Again...Welcome!
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