Why? What is the solution?
Life the gift of recovery!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Home is where the heart is
Posts: 7,061
Why? What is the solution? I am really confused about something and would like to hear some other perspectives rather than the committee in my head.
I have noticed (and it is just my perception here, may not be fact) that there is a significant conflict with recovery programs. Why? Why would anyone who really cares about others run down any recovery program? What ultimate good does that do?
Just my thoughts on this:
* If a method of recovery truly works then there is no reason to compare it to another program. It should be able to stand on its own merits not on the back of another program that the people promoting is run down.
* There are many roads to recovery. Unfortunately, many people do not find a way to live on these roads before the disease kills them.
* Wouldn't everyone be better served if all of us learned how to work with each other? How can we find a way to do this?
* Running down a program that works for others is absolutely non productive. Why discourage someone from trying a recovery method that might save their life?
* Isn't recovery difficult enough without those who have found it playing the "my program is better than your program" game?
* Ultimately, who cares what program is worked as long as it works for the person working it?
* Posting supposed statistics on the "success" or lack there of for recovery programs is also something I do not understand. How can anyone obtain accurate statistics on recovery? AA for example is an ANONYMOUS program, so how can someone gain accurate statistics from people that are anoymous. I for one have never been polled and don't know of anyone who has. Even within each program the recovery rates vary. In AA for example the recovery rates vary from meeting to meeting, town to town, state to state, country to country and person to person.
Ok enough of my rant. I truly want to know what are your thoughts, is there a solution that could bring the different recovery programs together working for a common good, helping the alcoholic who still suffers?
The majority of the time I do see this happening here at SR. Although every now and then a war will start or an individual will feel the need to go on a tangent about how horrible someone elses recovery program is.
I have noticed (and it is just my perception here, may not be fact) that there is a significant conflict with recovery programs. Why? Why would anyone who really cares about others run down any recovery program? What ultimate good does that do?
Just my thoughts on this:
* If a method of recovery truly works then there is no reason to compare it to another program. It should be able to stand on its own merits not on the back of another program that the people promoting is run down.
* There are many roads to recovery. Unfortunately, many people do not find a way to live on these roads before the disease kills them.
* Wouldn't everyone be better served if all of us learned how to work with each other? How can we find a way to do this?
* Running down a program that works for others is absolutely non productive. Why discourage someone from trying a recovery method that might save their life?
* Isn't recovery difficult enough without those who have found it playing the "my program is better than your program" game?
* Ultimately, who cares what program is worked as long as it works for the person working it?
* Posting supposed statistics on the "success" or lack there of for recovery programs is also something I do not understand. How can anyone obtain accurate statistics on recovery? AA for example is an ANONYMOUS program, so how can someone gain accurate statistics from people that are anoymous. I for one have never been polled and don't know of anyone who has. Even within each program the recovery rates vary. In AA for example the recovery rates vary from meeting to meeting, town to town, state to state, country to country and person to person.
Ok enough of my rant. I truly want to know what are your thoughts, is there a solution that could bring the different recovery programs together working for a common good, helping the alcoholic who still suffers?
The majority of the time I do see this happening here at SR. Although every now and then a war will start or an individual will feel the need to go on a tangent about how horrible someone elses recovery program is.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 558
Gee NandM thats a lot of questions. Why don't we all just get along and work together – well haven't humans been working on that for a very long time? Finding faults in another recovery program shouldn't affect anyones sobriety if they're already on that program and its working for them. Of course it might affect them if they're already uncertain and questioning things. I'm in AA now and if anyone finds faults in the program of AA, it doesn't put me off my program at all, in fact I can probably identify with them because I've felt like that before. So rather than take criticism of a program that one is on, as a personal attack, which it usually isn't, it would probably be better to try to see that persons opinion without getting upset and discuss what their difficulties with the program might be, perhaps offer another point of view.
Speaking from experience, I have found that by criticising something, seeing the negative in it and voicing that, I can begin to resolve my own conflicts and come to a solution. I think it would be a very bad thing to see only the good in something and not be willing to discuss someones negative thoughts and experiences. Its like saying their thoughts are invalid and you don't want to hear them unless you agree with them and they say only good things.
Anyway, something like that, these are just my first thoughts, perhaps I should spend more time thinking about it. I'd better not go on.... and on... and on...
Speaking from experience, I have found that by criticising something, seeing the negative in it and voicing that, I can begin to resolve my own conflicts and come to a solution. I think it would be a very bad thing to see only the good in something and not be willing to discuss someones negative thoughts and experiences. Its like saying their thoughts are invalid and you don't want to hear them unless you agree with them and they say only good things.
Anyway, something like that, these are just my first thoughts, perhaps I should spend more time thinking about it. I'd better not go on.... and on... and on...
Forum Leader
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Scottsdale, AZ, one big happy dysfunctional family!
Posts: 23,031
The short, simple answer: I just know that AA works for me, and I see it working for others. CoDA and Al-Anon also work for me, but I also see people attending CA, GA, NA, FA, Nar-Anon, CMA, SLAA, OA, etc. so I'm assuming they've found something that works for them.
I'm not sure it's possible to bring all the programs together for a common good, I mean let's face it, we're all unique individuals who've found something that works for us, but it seems like we needed a variety to choose from.
As far as I'm concerned if you've found something that works for you, and keeps you clean and sober, then why change, and the heck with what anyone else thinks. It's your recovery, not theirs.
Stepping down off my soapbox
Thanks for a thought-provoking topic Judith!
I'm not sure it's possible to bring all the programs together for a common good, I mean let's face it, we're all unique individuals who've found something that works for us, but it seems like we needed a variety to choose from.
As far as I'm concerned if you've found something that works for you, and keeps you clean and sober, then why change, and the heck with what anyone else thinks. It's your recovery, not theirs.
Stepping down off my soapbox
Thanks for a thought-provoking topic Judith!
No more merlot, more mamma
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Hills, Ct
Posts: 2,139
Thank you for this Judith.
I've been skipping a lot of the threads lately when I see trouble brewing..it works for me, though it makes me sad that we can't focus on why we're really here at SR..which is to help folks find recovery..whatever/whichever way that is.
I've been skipping a lot of the threads lately when I see trouble brewing..it works for me, though it makes me sad that we can't focus on why we're really here at SR..which is to help folks find recovery..whatever/whichever way that is.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Vancouver BC
Posts: 386
Agree Nandm,
Any and all programs should be embraced, the point is sobriety, not whose program is better. "The roads to recovery are many".
I have friends who are sober from AA, NA, Smart and WFS, many of them have decades of recovery under their belts. They are all good people who choose to share what worked for them.
To each his/her own, use a program or don't, it's a choice, allowing others to have their choice, minding our own sobriety, is vital to a healthy recovery.
Thanks
Seren
Any and all programs should be embraced, the point is sobriety, not whose program is better. "The roads to recovery are many".
I have friends who are sober from AA, NA, Smart and WFS, many of them have decades of recovery under their belts. They are all good people who choose to share what worked for them.
To each his/her own, use a program or don't, it's a choice, allowing others to have their choice, minding our own sobriety, is vital to a healthy recovery.
Thanks
Seren
Another Day in Paradise
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Upland, CA
Posts: 900
This is an interesting thread. I too have wondered why the need to establish the validity of one approach by invalidating all others? Suffice it to say that on its best day a program for recovery is only as valuable as the efforts of the individual using it.
Tiger Woods and I both have golf clubs and in their basic configuration they are for the most part interchangeable. However, it is at that point the Mr. Woods and my golf experience begin to part ways. He has somehow managed to grasp the concepts and utilize the "steps" of golf with much greater success than have I. I can't accurately tell you his rate of success as opposed to mine, but I have begun to believe that it may not be related to his clubs. I suspect him of "cheating" by practicing all the principals and concepts much more thoroughly than I am. I have considered the idea that he may not have been as "bad" a golfer as I was, and therefore he was able to make an inherently "inferior" program of golf work for him. I can't stand those "smug" golfers that hang around the better courses, always telling me that I haven't spent enough time playing yet to know if I really am a golfer. Golf is all these fools talk about, I really don't want their advice on how to be a golfer. I can do it by myself!!
In all seriousness, sobriety for me has been a difficult, but rewarding trip. I went with AA because my insurance agent was the only sober drunk I knew and that was what he did. He actually first discussed it with me on that damned golf course. AA works for me, but I know a few others that have used other ways and they seem to be alright. I have never felt that it was the program anymore than the golf clubs; it seems to always come back to the level of desire, commitment, and persistence of the individual pursuing the path of sobriety.
With regard to statistics I always felt that AA refers to their "estimated" rate of recovery as an indicator of just how difficult sustained recovery really is. Not based on the viability of AA, but on the level of commitment required to stay sober. I suspect that "Dr. John's Snake oil and Hot Rock Therapy" can have a certain amount of success if the adherent doesn't drink and finds a way to develop an attitude that provides the necessary replacement for what the alcoholic sought from his booze.
I will say that it seems the disputes over the value of a particular method of recovery seem to come from individual's needs to "explain" to themselves as much as anyone else, the reason that a particular program is the problem and not their own lack of effort.
Anyway, happy trails to everyone and I will say that the only person whose program I really feel qualified to comment on is mine. I will gladly give assistance to another, if ASKED, but on the whole I am too busy trying to figure out this golf thing.
Jon
Tiger Woods and I both have golf clubs and in their basic configuration they are for the most part interchangeable. However, it is at that point the Mr. Woods and my golf experience begin to part ways. He has somehow managed to grasp the concepts and utilize the "steps" of golf with much greater success than have I. I can't accurately tell you his rate of success as opposed to mine, but I have begun to believe that it may not be related to his clubs. I suspect him of "cheating" by practicing all the principals and concepts much more thoroughly than I am. I have considered the idea that he may not have been as "bad" a golfer as I was, and therefore he was able to make an inherently "inferior" program of golf work for him. I can't stand those "smug" golfers that hang around the better courses, always telling me that I haven't spent enough time playing yet to know if I really am a golfer. Golf is all these fools talk about, I really don't want their advice on how to be a golfer. I can do it by myself!!
In all seriousness, sobriety for me has been a difficult, but rewarding trip. I went with AA because my insurance agent was the only sober drunk I knew and that was what he did. He actually first discussed it with me on that damned golf course. AA works for me, but I know a few others that have used other ways and they seem to be alright. I have never felt that it was the program anymore than the golf clubs; it seems to always come back to the level of desire, commitment, and persistence of the individual pursuing the path of sobriety.
With regard to statistics I always felt that AA refers to their "estimated" rate of recovery as an indicator of just how difficult sustained recovery really is. Not based on the viability of AA, but on the level of commitment required to stay sober. I suspect that "Dr. John's Snake oil and Hot Rock Therapy" can have a certain amount of success if the adherent doesn't drink and finds a way to develop an attitude that provides the necessary replacement for what the alcoholic sought from his booze.
I will say that it seems the disputes over the value of a particular method of recovery seem to come from individual's needs to "explain" to themselves as much as anyone else, the reason that a particular program is the problem and not their own lack of effort.
Anyway, happy trails to everyone and I will say that the only person whose program I really feel qualified to comment on is mine. I will gladly give assistance to another, if ASKED, but on the whole I am too busy trying to figure out this golf thing.
Jon
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,373
Thanks Judith. You've articulated many of the questions I've been struggling with lately.
There is clearly not just one road to recovery - SR proves this.
I find it sad some get stuck on the minutiae of the journey rather than the destination
D
There is clearly not just one road to recovery - SR proves this.
I find it sad some get stuck on the minutiae of the journey rather than the destination
D
Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Northern California
Posts: 57
I agree completely that we shouldn't carelessly "run down" anyone's program, that we should accept that there are many roads to sobriety, and so on. And I've seen some nasty posts here and elsewhere that aren't productive.
That said, I also think that people are sometimes suspicious of recovery programs for legitimate reasons. If the program is peddling false information as factual (as a program run by Scientology was doing in CA schools before it was yanked) or leads to cult-like behavior (see Synanon--which wasn't a totally bad program by all accounts), the good it might do to those who get sober may be outweighed by the damage it does in the long run.
People coming to recovery are often absolutely desperate, at their wits' ends--I know I was--and the potential for abuse of these desparate people is huge. They also might have some desperate relatives who are willing to spend a small fortune on rehab--and, as a result, some rehabs are in it for the money.
As I just posted on another section of the boards, some people also feel trapped by a lack of options, and I think that feeling is often valid; there really are some areas where AA seems to be the only viable choice, and even if it works for me, I understand that it doesn't work for many others. That doesn't mean it's OK to come here and write about how stupid AA is, but I do think it's OK to share some frustration.
That said, I also think that people are sometimes suspicious of recovery programs for legitimate reasons. If the program is peddling false information as factual (as a program run by Scientology was doing in CA schools before it was yanked) or leads to cult-like behavior (see Synanon--which wasn't a totally bad program by all accounts), the good it might do to those who get sober may be outweighed by the damage it does in the long run.
People coming to recovery are often absolutely desperate, at their wits' ends--I know I was--and the potential for abuse of these desparate people is huge. They also might have some desperate relatives who are willing to spend a small fortune on rehab--and, as a result, some rehabs are in it for the money.
As I just posted on another section of the boards, some people also feel trapped by a lack of options, and I think that feeling is often valid; there really are some areas where AA seems to be the only viable choice, and even if it works for me, I understand that it doesn't work for many others. That doesn't mean it's OK to come here and write about how stupid AA is, but I do think it's OK to share some frustration.
Forward we go...side by side-Rest In Peace
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Serene In Dixie
Posts: 36,740
Hmmm..
SR has several functions in place for offensive post.
Here is the link for posting rules
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...-posting-tips/
You can use the Ignore User
as recently discussed in the Troubleshooting Forum.
You can Report a Post...look at the middle icon
left bottom of your user name. This brings the
problem to the attention of our Fourm Team.
You can PM any Forum Leader at any time.
Our names show in dark blue...also noted at
the botom right of each Forum.
In this Forum it's Peter and CarolD
This is from Peter about this Forum
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...rit-unity.html
That's more options than you get in person.
The interesting thing about discussion boards is
the scope of diversity of information and sharing.
Forward we go...side by side
SR has several functions in place for offensive post.
Here is the link for posting rules
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...-posting-tips/
You can use the Ignore User
as recently discussed in the Troubleshooting Forum.
You can Report a Post...look at the middle icon
left bottom of your user name. This brings the
problem to the attention of our Fourm Team.
You can PM any Forum Leader at any time.
Our names show in dark blue...also noted at
the botom right of each Forum.
In this Forum it's Peter and CarolD
This is from Peter about this Forum
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...rit-unity.html
That's more options than you get in person.
The interesting thing about discussion boards is
the scope of diversity of information and sharing.
Forward we go...side by side
*Grateful*
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Midwest
Posts: 2,619
I guess I missed something, but in my opinion ppl usually run things down to make themselves feel better. Insecurity maybe? Human nature? Just look at politics, or other organizations. Some people are extremely opinionated and have not reached the point in life where they can agree to disagree peacefully. In my opinion that is wrong. While we do not need to agree w/ everyone, my goal in life is to "If possible be at peace with all men as far as it depends on you....Romans 12:18" :-)
blessings, Sheila
blessings, Sheila
Member
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Arizona
Posts: 872
I only know what works for me, I don't criticize other programs, but you can bet that I will be singing the AA praises, hopefully through my experience, strength and hope, and through those I can hope that others see something they want...
The best recovery program? The one you work...
The best recovery program? The one you work...
Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: New Whiteland IN
Posts: 41
Everybody has different issues these days, I mean really, how many recovery groups are there. AA set up it's traditions to deal with alcoholism. Some of my "old school" recovery buddies, wont even allow narcotic talk in meetings. The message just gets to diluted. Some people just straight up have drinking problems, and that's all they want to deal with.
In my case, having worked the steps, can deal with anybody that is suffering from any mental disorders. I would love for there to be a program for spiritually recovered people. All of us could just deal with this messed up world as a whole. Nice post though. Keep it real!!
In my case, having worked the steps, can deal with anybody that is suffering from any mental disorders. I would love for there to be a program for spiritually recovered people. All of us could just deal with this messed up world as a whole. Nice post though. Keep it real!!
Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Pugetopolis
Posts: 2,384
As I have stated before, I am for any method or approach that helps an alcoholic to recover.
Alcoholics Anonymous itself never claimed to be the only way. In fact, to do so would not be in the spirit of AA's Tenth Tradition of having no opinion on outside issues. I may have an opinion, but AA does not. I won't state my opinion, because as an AA member, to the public I am AA.
There is no right way or wrong way. For all of us, there is a best way. The way that works for the individual. Even in AA there is no right way or wrong way, but a best way for many of us. The way laid out by our founders, embodied in the Twelve Steps.
Jim
Alcoholics Anonymous itself never claimed to be the only way. In fact, to do so would not be in the spirit of AA's Tenth Tradition of having no opinion on outside issues. I may have an opinion, but AA does not. I won't state my opinion, because as an AA member, to the public I am AA.
There is no right way or wrong way. For all of us, there is a best way. The way that works for the individual. Even in AA there is no right way or wrong way, but a best way for many of us. The way laid out by our founders, embodied in the Twelve Steps.
Jim
Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 170
This was a Big One, thank you for putting this together. I’m having some trouble sleeping and wanted to talk about my experience with some of your thoughts.
The only time in my life I was pretty agreeable is when I drank and or did drugs. However for the most part I was argumentative I always had a better way of doing things and knew just about everything there was about everything. If you had a nice car I had a nicer car, if you had a nice home I had a nicer home, if your wife was a supermodel I had her before you did.
Is it surprising to anyone at all that a life filled with this type of behavior would spill over into my sober life. I had a spiritual experience and the change I experienced was incredible. However those defects of character that I had been acting on my entire life needed to be worked on one day at a time. These behaviors are what caused me to fail my drinking was just a symptom of a far greater problem, me.
After many years of working on me I realized my job wasn’t to recreate this spiritual experience in you but rather give to you what was so freely given to me, love and tolerance. My experience through the steps is my own journey. Whatever path is chosen by others is of their own design and that of the God of their understanding. People are all at different levels of recovery I know this to be true because I am.
You also mentioned statistics and I’m of the opinion at this point that Alcoholics Anonymous is 100% effective. However if I decide to cut corners and don’t do what’s suggested I am guaranteed to get 100% intoxicated. At one time as Bill wrote in the Big Book the best way of treating you to a glimpse of your future will be to describe the growth of the fellowship among us. This was a pretty convincing tool to bring in the newcomer. However you’re right there is no longer a way to do this and to try good bad or indifferent is not for me. So personally all I can say is what already has been said Alcoholics Anonymous has been 100% effective in my life.
That being said I am interested in any recovery program, religions from all over the world. Programs that are new, old, or unheard of. Give it all to me because if it helps me better understand the new comers and can improve my life and the lives around me then it helps me serve God and this is the only reason I am here today.
The only time in my life I was pretty agreeable is when I drank and or did drugs. However for the most part I was argumentative I always had a better way of doing things and knew just about everything there was about everything. If you had a nice car I had a nicer car, if you had a nice home I had a nicer home, if your wife was a supermodel I had her before you did.
Is it surprising to anyone at all that a life filled with this type of behavior would spill over into my sober life. I had a spiritual experience and the change I experienced was incredible. However those defects of character that I had been acting on my entire life needed to be worked on one day at a time. These behaviors are what caused me to fail my drinking was just a symptom of a far greater problem, me.
After many years of working on me I realized my job wasn’t to recreate this spiritual experience in you but rather give to you what was so freely given to me, love and tolerance. My experience through the steps is my own journey. Whatever path is chosen by others is of their own design and that of the God of their understanding. People are all at different levels of recovery I know this to be true because I am.
You also mentioned statistics and I’m of the opinion at this point that Alcoholics Anonymous is 100% effective. However if I decide to cut corners and don’t do what’s suggested I am guaranteed to get 100% intoxicated. At one time as Bill wrote in the Big Book the best way of treating you to a glimpse of your future will be to describe the growth of the fellowship among us. This was a pretty convincing tool to bring in the newcomer. However you’re right there is no longer a way to do this and to try good bad or indifferent is not for me. So personally all I can say is what already has been said Alcoholics Anonymous has been 100% effective in my life.
That being said I am interested in any recovery program, religions from all over the world. Programs that are new, old, or unheard of. Give it all to me because if it helps me better understand the new comers and can improve my life and the lives around me then it helps me serve God and this is the only reason I am here today.
Last edited by 1cor13; 03-10-2008 at 09:45 PM.
Life the gift of recovery!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Home is where the heart is
Posts: 7,061
Thank you for all the responses. You have confirmed what has been my experience here at SR. Although a variety of recovery programs are worked by people here the primary concern is helping the alcoholic who still suffers. Yes, we do get the occassional person who is a little gung ho for their particular recovery method but it seems that after a while they settle in and get along.
I am grateful to have the opportunity to be part of a site where I have the opportunity to interact with people of varying recovery programs as it allows me the opportunity to benefit from what has worked for others and apply what I can use to my own program.
I am grateful to have the opportunity to be part of a site where I have the opportunity to interact with people of varying recovery programs as it allows me the opportunity to benefit from what has worked for others and apply what I can use to my own program.
Follow Directions!
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Fredericksburg, Va.
Posts: 9,730
Great topic!
Why in the world would any alcoholic who has recovered via any program bash another program that is working for someone else?
The key to recovery is imho taking action to change ones self into a better person that is able to live life happily on lifes terms sober, how one does it is not imporatant, just that they do it.
In places like here (SR) one should share what has worked for them and offer support to others no matter how they are working to change ones self into a better person that is able to live life happily on lifes terms sober.
Are we helping anyone by bashing another program? No we are hurting them!!!! They may stay away from the very program that may have saved thier lifes.
If some one came in here and said "I have been sober and happy for over 10 years because I kiss a billy goat on the lips every morning." I will be honest and say I would think to myself "That is out there!", but I sure would not trash what works for them because it may very well be the thing that saves some ones life.
I do have a problem with anyone or institution that claims to have a "Cure" for alcoholism!!!
That is simply a scam and I will not sit idly by and let any one take advantage of desperate people with a lie like that,
Trust me if there was a cure found for alcoholism the whole world would know about it!!!
WHo ever came up with a cure would be getting a Nobel prize, every rehab facility would go out of business and you would see TV ads for the cure saying FDA aproved.
Why in the world would any alcoholic who has recovered via any program bash another program that is working for someone else?
The key to recovery is imho taking action to change ones self into a better person that is able to live life happily on lifes terms sober, how one does it is not imporatant, just that they do it.
In places like here (SR) one should share what has worked for them and offer support to others no matter how they are working to change ones self into a better person that is able to live life happily on lifes terms sober.
Are we helping anyone by bashing another program? No we are hurting them!!!! They may stay away from the very program that may have saved thier lifes.
If some one came in here and said "I have been sober and happy for over 10 years because I kiss a billy goat on the lips every morning." I will be honest and say I would think to myself "That is out there!", but I sure would not trash what works for them because it may very well be the thing that saves some ones life.
I do have a problem with anyone or institution that claims to have a "Cure" for alcoholism!!!
That is simply a scam and I will not sit idly by and let any one take advantage of desperate people with a lie like that,
Trust me if there was a cure found for alcoholism the whole world would know about it!!!
WHo ever came up with a cure would be getting a Nobel prize, every rehab facility would go out of business and you would see TV ads for the cure saying FDA aproved.
God is my benzo
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Charlotte, nc
Posts: 198
this makes me think of my 4th step and resentments
i tend to resent things that highlight something I view as being "wrong with me"
insecurities I guess
i say whatever works, for me it's AA
I have a real issue with the so called success statistics
i was in a meeting the other day where several people mentioned an AA success rate of 7%. WTF? when was the aa census? how did i miss it. If I were new and I heard that in a meeting, why would I come back? this was being shared by people who have been around for quite some time.
it is not possible to quantify the success rate of an anonymous society
even if it were taken from a small cross section of drunks say a control group of 1000 or so ..... ah whatever
all I know is 100% of people who work honestly and thoroughly through whatever progam they choose stay sober
wait, i just made that up, but i'm sure it's pretty close to that
did you know that 62.37% of all statistics are made up to prove a point?
i tend to resent things that highlight something I view as being "wrong with me"
insecurities I guess
i say whatever works, for me it's AA
I have a real issue with the so called success statistics
i was in a meeting the other day where several people mentioned an AA success rate of 7%. WTF? when was the aa census? how did i miss it. If I were new and I heard that in a meeting, why would I come back? this was being shared by people who have been around for quite some time.
it is not possible to quantify the success rate of an anonymous society
even if it were taken from a small cross section of drunks say a control group of 1000 or so ..... ah whatever
all I know is 100% of people who work honestly and thoroughly through whatever progam they choose stay sober
wait, i just made that up, but i'm sure it's pretty close to that
did you know that 62.37% of all statistics are made up to prove a point?
Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 170
Originally Posted by 29a 
this makes me think of my 4th step and resentments
i tend to resent things that highlight something I view as being "wrong with me"
insecurities I guess
i say whatever works, for me it's AA
I have a real issue with the so called success statistics
i was in a meeting the other day where several people mentioned an AA success rate of 7%. WTF? when was the aa census? how did i miss it. If I were new and I heard that in a meeting, why would I come back? this was being shared by people who have been around for quite some time.
it is not possible to quantify the success rate of an anonymous society
even if it were taken from a small cross section of drunks say a control group of 1000 or so ..... ah whatever
all I know is 100% of people who work honestly and thoroughly through whatever progam they choose stay sober
wait, i just made that up, but i'm sure it's pretty close to that
did you know that 62.37% of all statistics are made up to prove a point?
i tend to resent things that highlight something I view as being "wrong with me"
insecurities I guess
i say whatever works, for me it's AA
I have a real issue with the so called success statistics
i was in a meeting the other day where several people mentioned an AA success rate of 7%. WTF? when was the aa census? how did i miss it. If I were new and I heard that in a meeting, why would I come back? this was being shared by people who have been around for quite some time.
it is not possible to quantify the success rate of an anonymous society
even if it were taken from a small cross section of drunks say a control group of 1000 or so ..... ah whatever
all I know is 100% of people who work honestly and thoroughly through whatever progam they choose stay sober
wait, i just made that up, but i'm sure it's pretty close to that
did you know that 62.37% of all statistics are made up to prove a point?
I was in a meeting the other day where several people mentioned an AA success rate of 7%. WTF? when was the aa census? how did i miss it. If I were new and I heard that in a meeting, why would I come back? this was being shared by people who have been around for quite some time.
So if you didn’t find it appropriate why are you passing it along? Do you think its helping the newcomer here?
So if you didn’t find it appropriate why are you passing it along? Do you think its helping the newcomer here?
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
