FightingIrish

Hey to any of you practicing Christians out there. I am curious to hear from people who have dealt with this situation.

This morning I went back to church for the first time since before I got sober almost five months ago. I actually went with a new friend from AA and his wife.

It was a great experience, great service, etc., but it occurred to me that when I took communion (since I was 15 I have always dipped the wafer rather than sip from the cup), the wafer had been dipped into what was definitely real wine, with alcohol, and I then ate same wafer.

I could taste the alcohol afterward, but it honestly didn't even occur to me until I got back to the pew and noticed the faint odor emanating from those who had sipped. I wanted to ask my aa friends about it afterwards (what do they do) but we were in coffee hour and these friends are totally anonymous about their programs, so it will have to wait until I see them at the meeting tonight.

I feel I am working a pretty solid program and this didn't phase me much at all, but I wonder what others' experiences are?

Part of me wants to obsess over whether this was technically a relapse and another part is saying "let go let god". (Please note I am looking to hear about similar experiences and what you did/thought, not a sermon...got that one already this morning.)

M

Miss Pink

what was your motive?

To *have a drink*?

or to participate n your religeon?

If it was the former, then Id say you had a relapse, if it was the latter AND you didnt know it was alcoholic, Id say it was simply a mistake.

As a catholic, and an alcoholic, you know youdont *have* to drink the sacramental wine. God will give you a pass on it.

caraway

At our church the priest just has wafers - no wine - don't know why that is but its handy for me. I have an AA friend who has been sober over 10 years and is a practising catholic. She takes the wine at her church and doesn't consider it a relapse - and shes pretty strict about things like that.

PrettyViolets

I was completely wondering about this--communion at church. I took my recovering alcoholic husband to my church for the first time a couple of weeks ago. This was the first time that we went together as a couple to my church. They have communion after the sermon--take the piece of bread and dip into juice or wine cup. I did not even participate because I was there with my husband. I was not sure if he had done communion before in a church. I did not want to put him into a position where I was watching him--whether he would dip into the juice or the wine.

Anyway, if we go again to my church, I will talk to him about it--just that it is his choice if he wants to dip in the wine or juice. I have grown up most of life with communion being juice and bread/crackers, so I normally dip the bread in juice.

lostmdboy

I have thought of this problem my self. At my church we use grape juice. So I do not have the problem. This alcky would have to refuse the wine. I think if you cross your arms the priest will just say a preyer for you. Also If you have the opportunity go talk to the priest, and see what your options would be. It still all comes down to your motives. If they are pure I think you are OK.

CarolD

Hmm...
As I consider taking Communion to be an act
symbolically connecting me to the body and blood of Christ...

it does not matter
if it's bread or wafers.....juice or wine.

Nothing to do with a relapse.

JMO

FightingIrish

I am Episcopal, which I've heard people say was the religion of functional alcoholics. Guess I proved them wrong! In any case I guess there's some truth to at least half that statement because I have never seen juice used in services except when I was working as a chorister for other denominations.

Thanks to all who responded. I feel solid with my motives, and seeing as I stopped sipping directly from the cup (the tall silver one anyway) twenty years ago, I'm not about to start now.

I also suppose I'm grateful to my sponsor for helping me through what I now see must have been a pretty solid beginning on the first step, because I've had very few physical cravings or temptations. And any I do have immediately bring to mind thoughts of all the horrible things that came along with having a drink. The days of glamorous cocktails among well-coiffed company are long gone...

serenityqueen

In my opinion, you did not Relapse. I have always felt that Relapse is a process, not an event. I have heard people say that they were working a solid program and doing everything they were supposed to do and wham, in a split second they relapsed. I have been around people in the Program who I have seen their actions, behaviors and hear their thoughts and know that they are in the process of Relapsing. I know I have watched the process take place. And I really don't think an individual goes to Church to pick up. I know years ago when I relapsed, the final step of the process, the actually picking up took place where I intentionally put myself into a situation where I knew alcohol was going to be available. I always went to have dinner in "a nice restaurant" that just so happened to serve alcohol. I convinced myself I was going to the club to only hear this new band or just to dance, that's all. That's the kind of situations I picked up in. Not Church. I admire you for being so observant and putting the thought into this situation that came up. Again, I do not feel you relapsed. If the simple taste and smell made you uneasy, maybe avoid communion for awhile. I think God will understand.

tennis71

Relapse does not necessarily start with the actual drink Relapse can start when people forget just how "cunning, baffling, and powerful" alcohol is. If it doesn't kick your butt with physical cravings, alcohol can kick your butt by convincing your brain that a small amount is OK, then it will convince you that a little bit more is OK, and so on.

The last time I went to Church I made a conscious decision to avoid the sacramental wine because I do not want to help alcohol get a foothold back in my life. I can only speak for myself but I know that I cannot even have a small wafer that has been dipped in wine.

Hopefully this is not too preachy, I can only talk from experience. Keep working with your sponsor and work the steps. The steps are the strongest tools that I know of to keep an AA sane and sober.

CarolD

I need some help from members more knowledgeable
than I on this.....but I think there is a specific
word for how
the wafer/ bread and wine/juiice are turned
into His flesh and His blood.

Trans something....subjection ? glorification?

I tried looking for it on Wikipedia but no luck.

Anyway...FI
glad you posted on this Topic. Thanks!

I used to take Communion with the church
across my street. They gave a choic
of wine from a chalice or tiny glass of juice.
My church uses only juice
but does not have Communion weekly
as the other religion did.

Carol87

CarolD ... is this what you are thinking of? I did a Google for communion and it showed up in one of the sites ... I looked it up in Dictionary.com

tran·sub·stan·ti·a·tion (trān'səb-stān'shē-ā'shən) Pronunciation Key
n.

1. Conversion of one substance into another.
2. In many Christian churches, the doctrine holding that the bread and wine of the Eucharist are transformed into the body and blood of Jesus, although their appearances remain the same.

Carol87

If taking communion is considered a relapse than I would have to change my sobriety date several times a year ... I do take communion, usually by dipping the wafer in the cup; however occasionally we do use the small cup (I am Lutheran) ... for me, it is a sacred act because of what it symbolizes ...

CarolD

Thanks Carol!
By Jove! you found it!

paulmh

Wine is wine. I'm no less allergic to it because I believe it has become the blood of Christ.

I'm eternally grateful to CarolD for pointing out that I can only count my own sober time, no-one else. But for me, I would avoid taking sacramental wine. G*d understands.

Tazman53

Did you take communion to get some wine or for communion?

Just my opinion, but that is not a slip or a relapse, now if you took communion over and over again on the same day with the whole purpose of getting some wine then that is a slip/relapse.

I would not worry about it, I have asked before a service if it was wine or juice, it was wine so I did not participate, for 2 reasons, one being I am not a member of any church so to me taking communion would not have been right and 2 if I had of taken communion it would have only been to get a sip of wine. That is me and no one else.

Communion is communion if you are doing it for the right reasons, you are being honest, that is one of the keys to true sobriety.

Music

Morning Irish. I was at a meeting in 1977 with a guy by the name of Red. I'll never forget Red. Red announced at the meeting that he was asked to be a Deacon in the Episcopal Church and how excited he was. People warned him about having to drink the wine but he said, "No problem! I've got 10 years sobriety. I'm not worried about that! I can handle it." Well, the wine handled Red. He died about 10 years later, drunk. Notice Red's attitude.

In 1981, I went to mass for the first time with my sponsor. I wasn't Catholic then. I took communion and had the same experience you did. My sponsor said, "just remember where you are and why you're here." I never gave it another thought. Jump forward 27 years to today. I'm Catholic! Converted at Easter last year. The Sacrament is the same whether I take the body, blood or both. I do take the blood on two occasions. Christmas for Christ's birth, and Easter to celebrate His resurrection. No problem. I remember Red, and where I'm at and why I'm there. God bless.

RufusACanal

Morning Irish, Music and Carol have already provided you with the best experience, strength and hope. The story of Red, Music shared is powerful; denial of reality will destory a new life. I too will remember Red now. Best to you!

R

Signal30

I'm catholic, and I never took a sip from the wine, and was never pressured to do so. I don't sip, dip the wafer, or anything like that. I'm kind of a germaphobe. I still get a little grossed out when I see the priest wiping the cup with all the different colored lipstick on the white cloth he's wiping it of with. Ewwwww.


I had to throw a little humor in this thread. Rule 62!!!




Tom

Jomey

Hi Irish - I am a Catholic, and I do receive the Blood of Christ at Mass. I talked it over with my priest, and his thoughts were that it is up to me, because receiving either His Body or His Blood brings you all the sacramental graces, you need not have both. I feel comfortable with my motives, that I am receiving the Blood of Christ, and I am not concerned with the small amount of alcohol in my life. That's just me though. One other suggestion from my priest was to add this into my examination of conscience before Reconciliation. It helps me to stop and make sure my motives are remaining pure.

Miss Pink

Im really surprised to hear recovering folks actually taking wine just because its part of communion.

Scary. to each his own I suppose.