caraway

The subject of communication and internet communication (and of course phone texts) came up in a conversation the other day. I can't remember the actual percentages said in the discussion so I found this quote from a book on body language by Barbara and Allan Pease. Just thought it was interesting as it can be so easy to take things in a way that they are not intended when reading and writing them on a forum. "Like Mehrabian, he found that the verbal component of a face-to-face conversation is less than 35 percent and that over 65 percent of communication is done nonverbally. Our analysis of thousands of recorded sales interviews and negotiations during the 1970's and 1980's showed that, in business encounters, body language accounts for between 60 and 80 percent of the impact made around a negotiating table and that people form 60 to 80 percent of their initial opinion about a new person in less than four minutes. Studies also show that when negotiating over the telephone, the person with the stronger argument usually wins, but this is not so true when negotiating face-to-face, because overall we make our final decisions more on what we see than what we hear."

caraway

Actually I should have spent more time looking for a better quote as that talks about body language but doesn't mention tone of voice and the way things are said, things which aren't always conveyed when written down.

Tazman53

Caraway I concur, the written word alone leaves may things open to misinterpatation.

I love you!
Face to face that can mean anything!!! It all depends upon the tone used and the exression used.

This is one big reason I think so many little tiffs arise here and many other places where there is nothing but the written word.

Expressing ones full meaning via strictly the written word is similar to trying to lace up and tie a pair of boots with one hand tied behind your back and a mitten on the other hand.

best

All the more reason to get our butts to a face to face meeting...in person.

SR may give you the whole 35% we can gain from written but a face to face meeting...even if you don't gather in the whole amount... 70% of 60 would still be more then 35%.

caraway

Yes I agree, I've found I need meetings.

Signal30

I have received job related training on reading others body language as well as tone of voice, etc. Most of this training is for safety reasons, and interrogation purposes. Verbal Judo by Thomposn is a good book on how to descilate hostile situations. The man who wrote the book I was trained by, and though he's a bit goofy, his program is excellent.

Now as far as communicating with the newcomer in AA, I simply lay out the spiritual tools, tell them of my expierence, and success. I mostly let my actions do the communicating.


Tom

NoelleR

Well ----

Here I go with my minority opinion again....I'm one of those who prefers the written word over face-to-face.....

I feel that in today's world we've become so entrenched in listening to intonation; looking at body language; hand movement; eye movement....etc. we've stopped listening to the words being said.....and I see that as such a shame.....we interpret what we think a person may have meant instead of just listening to the words.....and speakers are not as careful when they speak because they figure folks will figure out what they mean.....

One reason I prefer the written word, is that if I write something, and someone says, "Well, you said xxxxxxxxx," I can then go back and reprint exactly what I typed.....this often gets that certain someone to say, "Well but you meant....." To which I always (well, almost always....lol) reply, "No, I meant exactly what I wrote." ....and I try to be as concise as possible when I write.....although, lately, I must admit that my senior moments seem to be getting in my way.....lol

Along with my writing, I also try to read only what a person writes, and not assume that they might have meant.....something else....? Unless of course if it seems ambiguous....or if I'm confused at the time....at which point, I will usually ask for clarification.....

I hope I have made myself clear here.....I guess I prefer text over f2f because I'm such a visual person (when it comes to words, anyway), and I luv the written word....also, listening is a very tough skill to master, and takes a lot of deep concentration.....with doing all that to its fullest, who really has time for all this 'body language' etc. analysis....not me, anyway.


NoelleR

Tazman53

Noelle I see your point in a way, but can you tell the difference between a hug that is done just to give a hug or one that is meant from the heart via written word?

Would you rather your mother have handed you a note with this written on it ((((((Nolle)))))) when you fell down and scraped your knee or to give you a real loving hug?

XOXO on a piece of paper from the one you love or a real kiss and hug? Which says I care more?

A sincere look that says "I have been through that myself" or a written "I know what you mean?

Am I a man or a woman? Am I a boy or a man?

Can you tell by what I am typing right now if I am happy or if I have tears running down my face.

If I type nothing can you tell whether I am here and very sad or simply not here?

Can you see pain or anguish in my face if I do not write down I am hurting?

Yes the written word can express emotion, but it has to be written down, face to face one can read anothers real thoughts and feelings.

Signal30

With my job, if I don't pay attention to someones body language, I can get myself killed. With the training and experience from my job I have benefited from it in AA and life in general. From what I have learned in AA I have benefited dramatically when at work. When talking with another, I now do my best to listen rather than wait for my turn to speak.

If someones words do not match someones actions, then there words usually mean nothing. Its a program of action. It is obvious when someone is doing the work, and talking about it. It is also obvious when someone is talking a good game but not practicing it. I could say "let go let God", "Don't be selfish", "Thy will not mine". But if I am saying these phrases when at the same time pointing out everyone else's selfishness, then I am obviously still going by my will and being selfish. Talkie, talkie, with no walkie, walkie. That's what I like about my sponsor. He puts me in check when needed.



Tom

NoelleR

I'm sorry....I thought we were talking about communication....and actions do speak louder than words.....hugs and kisses are actions....body language is something folks do to interpret what the other has said (to me, body language and the actions that follow what a person says, whether they match or not.....these are two different things

.....I'm a believer in say what you mean and mean what you say. Obviously not all folks do this.....and reading another's 'body language' can be a good thing.....but communication is a two-way street.....and folks need to get back to it......true communication.....Unfortunately, too many folks don't say what they mean, or mean what they say, and some may never, in which case, reading body language, voice intonation, etc. can play a very valid role....but I've found that when forced to write, and shown how to write what they mean.....communication between two ppl improves......u can't go back in a verbal converstaion and say....that's not what you said....and show them, unless of course it's taped.

inmho, if folks weren't allowed to 'get away with' ....."Oh well, I didn't really mean 'that,'" well, perhaps reading body language, intonation, etc. would not be needed so much.....after all, in legal matters, the more important, the greater the amount (usually $500. or more) things have to be written....a verbal contract can be valid, except when the importance is greater....then it must be written (contract is just one example....there's also court transcripts, and boy you better say what you mean and mean what you say there.....lolol).....hmmmmm just a thought

Plz understand, I'm not saying that reading body language, intonation, etc. is a bad thing.....just that ..... if we learn (like rigorous honesty) to say what we mean and mean what we say, and we can trust eachother, then it shouldn't be necessary.....at least in most cases....obviously, there will always be those out there who will always be liars, sociopaths, etc., but for the most part words should suffice.....On here, I take everybody 'at their word' untill their words start contradiction themselves.....and there it is in good ole black 'n white..... (o:


NoelleR

justanothrdrunk

I hate threads like this. Know what I mean?

Tazman53

LOL!!!!

Signal30

Ah yes, the wonderful diversity of personalities in these rooms. It can be showtime at the SR!!!


Tom

caraway

I like to hear another point of view even if I disagree with it, nothing wrong with that, if people didn't have their own ideas on things, we might still think the world was flat and be upset with the people who believed otherwise.

Actually the original point I was making was with day to day communication - a lot of misunderstandings come about with e-mails and phone texts, people have been sacked over inappropriate e-mails. Things they might have considered amusing have been taken too seriously.

I don't think body language is a new thing, I think its been around since before we could talk, animals do it all the time and humans do it without thinking about it, being good or bad at it depending on how sensitive we are. Certain jobs will benefit from being good at it so we have to learn to improve those skills. But its nothing new.

Saying what you mean and meaning what you say is a good thing. But people can change their minds (I do it all the time) and that is a good thing too. Its good not to be too rigid or set in ones ways, but to be flexible and see things from several points of view. My opinions aren't set in stone like the 10 commandments, they are changing all the time.

I hope no one takes what I say that seriously, by the time I've pressed the 'submit reply' button, I'm bound to think I could have put it much better, I've missed out 'important' points or said the wrong things. But I am a bit careless because its not an essay to be submitted for marking, if I felt like that I'd never get anything sent, I'd be spending hours editing and re-editing.

caraway

Oh, heres another interesting point about written language verses spoken language that I found in Wikipedia

"We will often resolve ambiguities in language by the way we place stress on words. The sentence "I never said she stole my money" demonstrates the importance stress can play in a sentence, and thus the inherent difficulty a natural language processor can have in parsing it. Depending on which word the speaker places the stress, this sentence could have several distinct meanings:

* "I never said she stole my money" - Someone else said it, but I didn't.
* "I never said she stole my money" - I simply didn't ever say it.
* "I never said she stole my money" - I might have implied it in some way, but I never explicitly said it.
* "I never said she stole my money" - I said someone took it, I didn't say it was her.
* "I never said she stole my money" - I just said she probably borrowed it.
* "I never said she stole my money" - I said she stole someone else's money.
* "I never said she stole my money" - I accused her of stealing my heart, but not my money."