Sponsorship Qualities
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Southern New Hampshire
Posts: 746
Sponsorship Qualities
Good Evening Folks I found this, and felt compelled to share, 10+11 particularly resonate with me.
1. I will not help you to stay and wallow in limbo.
2. I will help you to grow
3. I can not give you dreams or "fix you up" simply because I can not.
4. I can not give you growth, or grow for you.You must grow for yourself by facing reality, grim as it may be at times.
5. I can not take away your loneliness or your pain.
6. I can not sense your world for you, evaluate your goals for you, tell
you what is best for your world; because you have your own world in which you must live.
7. I can not convince you of the necessity to make the vital decision of choosing the frightening uncertainty of growing over the safe misery of remaining static.
8. I want to be with you and know you as a rich and growing friend; yet I can not get close to you when you choose not to grow.
9 When I begin to care for you out of pity or when I begin to lose faith in you, then I am inhibiting both for you and for me.
10. You must know and understand my help is conditional. I will be with you and "hang in there" with you so long as I continue to get even the slightest hint that you are still trying to grow.
11. If you can accept this, then perhaps we can help each other to become what God meant us to be.
Qualities of Sponsorship
1. I will not help you to stay and wallow in limbo.
2. I will help you to grow
3. I can not give you dreams or "fix you up" simply because I can not.
4. I can not give you growth, or grow for you.You must grow for yourself by facing reality, grim as it may be at times.
5. I can not take away your loneliness or your pain.
6. I can not sense your world for you, evaluate your goals for you, tell
you what is best for your world; because you have your own world in which you must live.
7. I can not convince you of the necessity to make the vital decision of choosing the frightening uncertainty of growing over the safe misery of remaining static.
8. I want to be with you and know you as a rich and growing friend; yet I can not get close to you when you choose not to grow.
9 When I begin to care for you out of pity or when I begin to lose faith in you, then I am inhibiting both for you and for me.
10. You must know and understand my help is conditional. I will be with you and "hang in there" with you so long as I continue to get even the slightest hint that you are still trying to grow.
11. If you can accept this, then perhaps we can help each other to become what God meant us to be.
We Do Recover
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Texas
Posts: 2,619
Originally Posted by Rob B 
7. I can not convince you of the necessity to make the vital decision of choosing the frightening uncertainty of growing over the safe misery of remaining static.
Hopeful to change--a day at a time.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: in the present moment
Posts: 2,060
Originally Posted by Rob B
Good Evening Folks I found this, and felt compelled to share, 10+11 particularly resonate with me.
1. I will not help you to stay and wallow in limbo.
2. I will help you to grow
3. I can not give you dreams or "fix you up" simply because I can not.
4. I can not give you growth, or grow for you.You must grow for yourself by facing reality, grim as it may be at times.
5. I can not take away your loneliness or your pain.
6. I can not sense your world for you, evaluate your goals for you, tell
you what is best for your world; because you have your own world in which you must live.
7. I can not convince you of the necessity to make the vital decision of choosing the frightening uncertainty of growing over the safe misery of remaining static.
9 When I begin to care for you out of pity or when I begin to lose faith in you, then I am inhibiting both for you and for me.
10. You must know and understand my help is conditional. I will be with you and "hang in there" with you so long as I continue to get even the slightest hint that you are still trying to grow.
11. If you can accept this, then perhaps we can help each other to become what God meant us to be.
Qualities of Sponsorship
1. I will not help you to stay and wallow in limbo.
2. I will help you to grow
3. I can not give you dreams or "fix you up" simply because I can not.
4. I can not give you growth, or grow for you.You must grow for yourself by facing reality, grim as it may be at times.
5. I can not take away your loneliness or your pain.
6. I can not sense your world for you, evaluate your goals for you, tell
you what is best for your world; because you have your own world in which you must live.
7. I can not convince you of the necessity to make the vital decision of choosing the frightening uncertainty of growing over the safe misery of remaining static.
9 When I begin to care for you out of pity or when I begin to lose faith in you, then I am inhibiting both for you and for me.
10. You must know and understand my help is conditional. I will be with you and "hang in there" with you so long as I continue to get even the slightest hint that you are still trying to grow.
11. If you can accept this, then perhaps we can help each other to become what God meant us to be.
Thank you Rob, for posting this list for our discussion.
Ironically, today I was asked to be a person's sponsor for whom I have great affection and respect. She is 8 and a half years sober with a strong program.
When I read this list, I had a hard time with it. My instinct was not so much to challenge the spirit of it's message, but the way it's worded. It comes across as quite negating, if not negative, whereas I work better with affirming agreements in sponsorship.
Specifically, I find that, in order for my program to be one of attraction, not promotion, to someone asking for guidance in the steps,
it is crucial for me to raise my own level of relating, to one of higher and better examples, in my deeds, when possible, and, if not, by my truthfulness in my words.
My own list of sponsorship qualities might list what I CAN and WILL do, rather than with those behaviours I will not employ. Something kinda like this:
1. I will be present to you and listen to your decision-making processes, offering feedback and clarification as I am able.
2. I will help you to see that all of your life's experiences, both easy as well as painful, are here to help you grow
3. I will share my experience, strength and hope with you, including my evolving dreams and hopes.
4. I am committed to growing along spiritual lines and being open with you as to how that works for me.
5. As long as you maintain a desire to not drink and to recover, I will support you in your painful, confused and lonely moments as much as in the lighthearted times.
6. You are free to live your own life and make your own choices at all times.
7. Through my own experience, succeses and and mistakes, I can serve as an example of the importance of attentiveness, vigilance and honesty as far as emotional growth is concerned.
8. I will "stay in the day" with our relationship, neither prestructuring my response to you nor preplanning what we shall discuss or keep an agenda for your progress.
9 I respect your value and your worth
10. You must know and understand my help is conditional upon your desire to remain sober and to grow.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Pugetopolis
Posts: 2,384
Thanks Rob,
I practice these principles with the people I sponsor. Just yesterday I let a sponsee go because they had drawn some hard and fast lines about what they would do and what they wouldn't do. Basically it was about their unwillingness to take some action to grow beyond the safe misery of their situation. I meet with people early in the am, with a few exceptions. This person hasn't worked in years, stays up all night and sleeps all day, sees a therapist to collect money from the state for some "disabilities," and has been sober twenty years. They are unwilling to meet the conditions that are required.
In AA they that "we will love you until you can learn to love yourself." Well I have seen AA's damn near love an alcoholic to death. It is not about so-called "tough love," but rather the highest form of love, which is called detachment. Actually those principles that you posted Rob are principles Al-Anons practice. In fact, an Al-Anon friend had given me a copy of what you posted years ago.
In addition to the principles listed in Rob's post, here is what it looks like from my perspective:
1. If you want to get well, I will walk to the gates of hell with you. If you don't want to
get well, you will to go there by yourself.
2. I will not be held hostage by your threats of drinking.
3. I love you so much that if you want to go drink yourself to death, I will not get in you
get in your way.
4. If you don't care, I can't care. If you show me that you care, even a little, I can't
help but care.
Additional principles and directions for sponsorship can be found on page 18 and in Chapter 7 of the book, Alcoholics Anonymous.
Jim
I practice these principles with the people I sponsor. Just yesterday I let a sponsee go because they had drawn some hard and fast lines about what they would do and what they wouldn't do. Basically it was about their unwillingness to take some action to grow beyond the safe misery of their situation. I meet with people early in the am, with a few exceptions. This person hasn't worked in years, stays up all night and sleeps all day, sees a therapist to collect money from the state for some "disabilities," and has been sober twenty years. They are unwilling to meet the conditions that are required.
In AA they that "we will love you until you can learn to love yourself." Well I have seen AA's damn near love an alcoholic to death. It is not about so-called "tough love," but rather the highest form of love, which is called detachment. Actually those principles that you posted Rob are principles Al-Anons practice. In fact, an Al-Anon friend had given me a copy of what you posted years ago.
In addition to the principles listed in Rob's post, here is what it looks like from my perspective:
1. If you want to get well, I will walk to the gates of hell with you. If you don't want to
get well, you will to go there by yourself.
2. I will not be held hostage by your threats of drinking.
3. I love you so much that if you want to go drink yourself to death, I will not get in you
get in your way.
4. If you don't care, I can't care. If you show me that you care, even a little, I can't
help but care.
Additional principles and directions for sponsorship can be found on page 18 and in Chapter 7 of the book, Alcoholics Anonymous.
Jim
Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 226
Thanks Rob,
My sponsor took me through the 12 steps. That’s the relationship I now have while working with other alcoholics and newcomers and if I stick to that and don’t mix in my own seasoning sometimes it works out fairly well. It's really easy to forget that I have nothing to do with someone else’s recovery. My job is to lay the simple spiritual tools at someone’s feet it’s their job to pick them up. I don’t buy into any of it except number 11 and if you can accept that, then perhaps we can help each other to become what God meant us to be.
No human power could have relieved my alcoholism but god could and would if he were sought.
My sponsor took me through the 12 steps. That’s the relationship I now have while working with other alcoholics and newcomers and if I stick to that and don’t mix in my own seasoning sometimes it works out fairly well. It's really easy to forget that I have nothing to do with someone else’s recovery. My job is to lay the simple spiritual tools at someone’s feet it’s their job to pick them up. I don’t buy into any of it except number 11 and if you can accept that, then perhaps we can help each other to become what God meant us to be.
No human power could have relieved my alcoholism but god could and would if he were sought.
It`s ok to stay sober
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Central NC
Posts: 20,902
good thread
when I get new man,I usually ask one question,are you weilling to go to any lenght to get sober and stay sober?If they say no,I usually say no,if they say yes,I say yes..and then I go over this phamplet with them
(Here is a copy of a hand made phamplet by a oldtimer in our area.He hands this out to prospective sponsees.He is well loved and respected by many here.)
I`ve decided to put together a new set of personel suggestions for those that I sponser.
Some of the suggestions are:
*I don`t accept sponsership of everyone that asks me
some I decline,some I farm out,I allways try to help with the selection process.
*I don`t sponser guys who don`t go to meetings.
*I want frequent contact with them
a- calls
b- perferably one on one
c-better yet at meetings
*call me before you drink,not after
*watch me,hopefully I can set a reasonably good example to follow
* I perfer 8:00 PM meetings(as a majority of those that I attend)
seems to be a more representive group of members
*I get to meetings early because:
*I have a chance to greet everyone eyeball to eyeball,handshake or hug
*I have a chance to see who`s new-who I recoginize
a-make a special effort to greet them all,especially the newcomers
b-I try & make them feel welcome
c-introduce them to others
*I am in my seat early so that I`m sure not to be disruptive when the meeting starts
*when the meeting starts I go into a mood of total commitment
a-no talking
b-no moving around
c-no cell phone on
d-if a call on my cell phone is of such importance,I may want to stay home and take it there.
*-I look at the secetary,the readers,right straight in the eye
*If they look up I want our eyes to meet so they know I`m interested in what they are doing or saying
*I don`t look around to see who just came in the door late
*When we break in smaller groups
a-I look at whomever is sharing right in the eye
b-I won`t talk outside the sibject
c-no crosstalk for me
d-no peeing
e-no getting coffee
*If peeing became a problem for me:
I`d cut down on my liquid consumption befiore and during meetings
if it continued to be a problem,I`d look into some sort of catheter
f-stay sommitted and reverent
*when we reconvene,to give out chips and close
a-I don`t talk
b-I don`t move around
c-I look at whose reading or giving out chips
* want to know who gets chips so I can congradulate them
* want whoever is talking or reading up front to believe I`m really interested in whats being said or whats going on.
Craigs Sponsership Talk
Craig L.,a fellow who visited me here from California a couple of years ago gave me a tape of his sponsers talk.His sponser said God may have selected one person to be at that meeting and it was their one and only chance and God futher necessiated that that person hear something at a specific moment.
Because of a distraction that person misses what they are supossed to hear,they drink and they die.
*If I am in a position to close the meeting with the Lord`s Prayer-when they get ready-I`ll say:
"Our Father....
Amen"...period!
dictionary says "amen" is the end of a prayer to express approval
it dosen`t suggest that any futher comments are needed or suggested
*I want the secetary to know I`m available to help clean up and put stuff away
a-after myself
b-I`m good at it
c-I`ve had a lot of practice
*What happens if the guys I sponser ignore these things?
a-I`m probally going to bring it to their attention
b-if it continues then I may give them a chance to pull the sponser plug
c-I usually do this with the "one more chance" philosophy.You fire yourself!
*I`m told I have and that the group has but one primary purpose : to carry the message.....
*the sponsership suggestions are pretty simple and help me be very sure I do my best to carry out this primary purpose.
*
when I get new man,I usually ask one question,are you weilling to go to any lenght to get sober and stay sober?If they say no,I usually say no,if they say yes,I say yes..and then I go over this phamplet with them
(Here is a copy of a hand made phamplet by a oldtimer in our area.He hands this out to prospective sponsees.He is well loved and respected by many here.)
I`ve decided to put together a new set of personel suggestions for those that I sponser.
Some of the suggestions are:
*I don`t accept sponsership of everyone that asks me
some I decline,some I farm out,I allways try to help with the selection process.
*I don`t sponser guys who don`t go to meetings.
*I want frequent contact with them
a- calls
b- perferably one on one
c-better yet at meetings
*call me before you drink,not after
*watch me,hopefully I can set a reasonably good example to follow
* I perfer 8:00 PM meetings(as a majority of those that I attend)
seems to be a more representive group of members
*I get to meetings early because:
*I have a chance to greet everyone eyeball to eyeball,handshake or hug
*I have a chance to see who`s new-who I recoginize
a-make a special effort to greet them all,especially the newcomers
b-I try & make them feel welcome
c-introduce them to others
*I am in my seat early so that I`m sure not to be disruptive when the meeting starts
*when the meeting starts I go into a mood of total commitment
a-no talking
b-no moving around
c-no cell phone on
d-if a call on my cell phone is of such importance,I may want to stay home and take it there.
*-I look at the secetary,the readers,right straight in the eye
*If they look up I want our eyes to meet so they know I`m interested in what they are doing or saying
*I don`t look around to see who just came in the door late
*When we break in smaller groups
a-I look at whomever is sharing right in the eye
b-I won`t talk outside the sibject
c-no crosstalk for me
d-no peeing
e-no getting coffee
*If peeing became a problem for me:
I`d cut down on my liquid consumption befiore and during meetings
if it continued to be a problem,I`d look into some sort of catheter
f-stay sommitted and reverent
*when we reconvene,to give out chips and close
a-I don`t talk
b-I don`t move around
c-I look at whose reading or giving out chips
* want to know who gets chips so I can congradulate them
* want whoever is talking or reading up front to believe I`m really interested in whats being said or whats going on.
Craigs Sponsership Talk
Craig L.,a fellow who visited me here from California a couple of years ago gave me a tape of his sponsers talk.His sponser said God may have selected one person to be at that meeting and it was their one and only chance and God futher necessiated that that person hear something at a specific moment.
Because of a distraction that person misses what they are supossed to hear,they drink and they die.
*If I am in a position to close the meeting with the Lord`s Prayer-when they get ready-I`ll say:
"Our Father....
Amen"...period!
dictionary says "amen" is the end of a prayer to express approval
it dosen`t suggest that any futher comments are needed or suggested
*I want the secetary to know I`m available to help clean up and put stuff away
a-after myself
b-I`m good at it
c-I`ve had a lot of practice
*What happens if the guys I sponser ignore these things?
a-I`m probally going to bring it to their attention
b-if it continues then I may give them a chance to pull the sponser plug
c-I usually do this with the "one more chance" philosophy.You fire yourself!
*I`m told I have and that the group has but one primary purpose : to carry the message.....
*the sponsership suggestions are pretty simple and help me be very sure I do my best to carry out this primary purpose.
*
Member
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: my room in ct.
Posts: 58,110
a great book to read.. and its not all doom and gloom like the title may suggest...
was given to me by grandsponser...
Prologue : The Dark Night of Recovery
and thanks rob for this thread...
rz
was given to me by grandsponser...
Prologue : The Dark Night of Recovery
and thanks rob for this thread...
rz
Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Pugetopolis
Posts: 2,384
Originally Posted by Rusty Zipper
a great book to read.. and its not all doom and gloom like the title may suggest...
was given to me by grandsponser...
Prologue : The Dark Night of Recovery
and thanks rob for this thread...
rz
was given to me by grandsponser...
Prologue : The Dark Night of Recovery
and thanks rob for this thread...
rz
I've read that little book. I agree it is a good read for anyone wanting to go further into what it is we do.
Jim
Life the gift of recovery!
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Home is where the heart is
Posts: 7,061
Originally Posted by Rusty Zipper
a great book to read.. and its not all doom and gloom like the title may suggest...
was given to me by grandsponser...
Prologue : The Dark Night of Recovery
and thanks rob for this thread...
rz
was given to me by grandsponser...
Prologue : The Dark Night of Recovery
and thanks rob for this thread...
rz
Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,697
I just ordered two. Thank you Rusty.
There should be a thread "Other books where we see the message" - often I find it in books that have nothing to do with recovery at all. ( I also hear it in music, I see it in people's faces,...)..
Franny and Zooey comes to mind right now..
There should be a thread "Other books where we see the message" - often I find it in books that have nothing to do with recovery at all. ( I also hear it in music, I see it in people's faces,...)..
Franny and Zooey comes to mind right now..
Member
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: my room in ct.
Posts: 58,110
Rent-A-Sponsor
Are you tired of being told like it is?
Still looking for that easier, softer way?
Had enough of that same old time - tested direction?
NO READING! NO WRITING! NO DEADLINES!
STANDARD FEATURES INCLUDE:
Listening to your sniveling without constant reference to the Big Book or Steps!
Co - signing your excuses and rationalizations!
Work only the Steps YOU want, in the order YOU choose!
Learn the secret of giving it away before you even have it!
Why "walk the walk" when you can just "talk the talk?"
Why save your ass at the cost of losing your face?
Remember, it's better to LOOK good than to FEEL good
FOURTH STEP WRITING SERVICE NOW AVAILABLE! YES, WE WILL TAKE YOUR INVENTORY FOR YOU!!
At Rent - A - Sponsor we understand how UNIQUE you are!
HALF MEASURES ARE OUR SPECIALTY!
Call 1-900-O-POOR-ME
Call now and receive a free copy of "Staying Sober on War Stories Alone!"
Are you tired of being told like it is?
Still looking for that easier, softer way?
Had enough of that same old time - tested direction?
NO READING! NO WRITING! NO DEADLINES!
STANDARD FEATURES INCLUDE:
Listening to your sniveling without constant reference to the Big Book or Steps!
Co - signing your excuses and rationalizations!
Work only the Steps YOU want, in the order YOU choose!
Learn the secret of giving it away before you even have it!
Why "walk the walk" when you can just "talk the talk?"
Why save your ass at the cost of losing your face?
Remember, it's better to LOOK good than to FEEL good
FOURTH STEP WRITING SERVICE NOW AVAILABLE! YES, WE WILL TAKE YOUR INVENTORY FOR YOU!!
At Rent - A - Sponsor we understand how UNIQUE you are!
HALF MEASURES ARE OUR SPECIALTY!
Call 1-900-O-POOR-ME
Call now and receive a free copy of "Staying Sober on War Stories Alone!"
Follow Directions!
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Fredericksburg, Va.
Posts: 9,730
Originally Posted by Rusty Zipper
Rent-A-Sponsor
Are you tired of being told like it is?
Still looking for that easier, softer way?
Had enough of that same old time - tested direction?
NO READING! NO WRITING! NO DEADLINES!
STANDARD FEATURES INCLUDE:
Listening to your sniveling without constant reference to the Big Book or Steps!
Co - signing your excuses and rationalizations!
Work only the Steps YOU want, in the order YOU choose!
Learn the secret of giving it away before you even have it!
Why "walk the walk" when you can just "talk the talk?"
Why save your ass at the cost of losing your face?
Remember, it's better to LOOK good than to FEEL good
FOURTH STEP WRITING SERVICE NOW AVAILABLE! YES, WE WILL TAKE YOUR INVENTORY FOR YOU!!
At Rent - A - Sponsor we understand how UNIQUE you are!
HALF MEASURES ARE OUR SPECIALTY!
Call 1-900-O-POOR-ME
Call now and receive a free copy of "Staying Sober on War Stories Alone!"
Are you tired of being told like it is?
Still looking for that easier, softer way?
Had enough of that same old time - tested direction?
NO READING! NO WRITING! NO DEADLINES!
STANDARD FEATURES INCLUDE:
Listening to your sniveling without constant reference to the Big Book or Steps!
Co - signing your excuses and rationalizations!
Work only the Steps YOU want, in the order YOU choose!
Learn the secret of giving it away before you even have it!
Why "walk the walk" when you can just "talk the talk?"
Why save your ass at the cost of losing your face?
Remember, it's better to LOOK good than to FEEL good
FOURTH STEP WRITING SERVICE NOW AVAILABLE! YES, WE WILL TAKE YOUR INVENTORY FOR YOU!!
At Rent - A - Sponsor we understand how UNIQUE you are!
HALF MEASURES ARE OUR SPECIALTY!
Call 1-900-O-POOR-ME
Call now and receive a free copy of "Staying Sober on War Stories Alone!"
BTW good topic.
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