GreenTea

I'm sorry folks, but the rest of the thread is lost... I can't seem to find a copy of the remaining posts anywhere... This is the best I can do as far as reconstructing it.

I hope you find this thread helpful.

If you are reading this and think you might have a problem with alcohol, then please remember the following... You are not insane... You've merely gotten caught up in something that has been trying to kill you... That's all... Its never too late to start recovery.

You Are Not Alone!

CarolD

Thanks again, GT

The last time I checked....Amazon dot com
carried both
"Under The Influence" and "Beyond The Influence"

There is also a lot of solid information on nutrition
and vitamins/minerals that promote healing there.
I followed it for about 6 months with good results.
Check out....
Guide for a Hypoglycemic Diet is on page 220, Appendix C.
"Under The Influence" Milam & Ketcham


Sooo...I strongly suggest anyone choosing recovery
...Read the book!

KenL

I have read Under the Influence and it is a wonderful book that started my education about alcohol. I have found another and I am sure you know of it. If not then here is the title, Beyond the Influence: Understanding and Defeating Alcoholism. It is written by Katherine Ketcham and William Asbury (an admitted alcoholic). This is a wonderful fount of information as well and should be read by anyone who thinks they may have alcoholism.

Dime

I received my copy of "Under The Influence" and finished it in two days also. I had a hard time putting it down. I highlighted a lot of the text just like I did in the Big Book and I am making note of page numbers as I am going to use this as a reference. This is the most detailed fact filled description on alcoholism that I have ever seen. It literally changed my whole concept of the cause of alcoholism. Here's the clinker; every sentence and page of this book made sense immediately and I could identify with everything. No need to study it or read it a second time.

If you have a drinking problem or are already an alcoholic this should considered required reading!

din

I am going online to buy this book now........

I am a firm believer, with ANY addiction........start with education ~

thanks GreenTea

Jewels83

This thread has helped me so much! Thank you CarolD and those who've added to it.

I went to Greenteas public profile and noticed that he/she hasn't posted since '08. Does anybody know what has become of he/she?

Much love,
Jewels

GreenTea

I haven't left. I'm right here, just dealing with a continuing stalker problem.

I'm glad people have found this thread to be so helpful. Don't thank me though -- thank our Higher Power!

BobGT

I read "Under the Influence" and had a question.

The book said that certain races, mostly Asian, have high acetaldehyde levels when drinking, and that fact could explain why they drink sparingly or not at all. That's from page 44.

Yet the book says that alcoholics also have metabolic abnormalities that result in high acetaldehyde levels and alcoholics drink excessively.

These two points seem to disagree. Can anyone explain what is happening? Thanks.

CarolD

Sorry Bob....
I don't have a clue what was meant
Perhaps others with more knowledge than I can explain.

For me....the explanations of blackouts and how
my mind and body no longer processed alcohol correctly
were the important parts of "Under The Influence"

I also followed the eating program + supplements for
about 6 months. I credit that for getting me
back in physical and mental balance sooner.


I can tell you....since I read that book
re connected to my God and AA.....
I've not had another drink......

I do so hope you will find your way

LaVallette

Have ordered both from Amazon. Thank you so much for putting this together.

WakeMeWhenSober

I just finished reading this entire thread. On the way home all I wanted with dinner was a glass of wine. I actually felt 'sorry' for myself that I could not have one.

Then I read this thread and remembered WHY I could not have one and the disgust and shame returned. My ice tea has never tasted better.

I'll be getting both books tomorrow.

I am so very, very grateful I found this place.

BobGT

Answering my own question…

“Beyond the Influence” answers this question in chapter 4, The Addicted Brain. The explanation is too complex for me to try to summarize here. But it involves the different ways that acetaldehyde reacts in an alcoholic brain as opposed to a non-alcoholic brain.

GettingStronger2

Awesome book. I just stumbled upon today at the bookstore, and just started reading it. I did notice this thread before, so that is why it jumped out at me (actually, it was almost literal. I was looking in the section, and it fell off the shelf. Go figure).

CarolD

Wow! it was meant for you then.....

The nutrition supplement section is excellent I did that for about
6 months ...I consider it helped me heal easier and faster.

Nettaja

I'll have a go at this. Perhaps what they feel upon their first few drinks is as bad as the hangovers alcoholics get. However what they don't have are the memories of the fun times that alcohol once brought back when it wasn't serious. Therefore for them the sensible thing for them to do is stop, whereas the unthinking "sensible" thing to do for the alcoholic is to medicate away the negative feelings with more drink chasing the elusive fun times that are not going to around the corner. It's the progression that matters here IMO.

GreenTea

Since we're discussing the progressive nature of alcoholism, here are some of my experiences being a weekend warrior during my drinking years. More than anything, it helps me remember the progressive nature of alcoholism and the effects of that progression on my life.

I used to be a weekend warrior. It started out innocuously enough -- Saturday nights I'd go hit a pub or two with my friends, maybe shoot some pool or throw some darts, chase a few skirts, have a good old time.

At first it didn't keep me from functioning on Sundays. I'd still get up a little early and take care of things. I might have been a little tired from lack of sleep, but a short afternoon nap would take care of that and I'd still have a wonderful, refreshing day.

Then the progression took hold. Over time I'd steadily consume more beer on my "Saturday party night". $10-$20 used to be enough -- a couple beers, some quarters for the table, maybe buy a friend a drink, perhaps grab a burger afterwards.

Over time, the amount I was spending kept steadily increasing. "Gee, it must be inflation and the rising cost of everything everywhere" -- yeah, right. I ignored the fact that I was buying myself more beer whenever I went out. I also conveniently failed to notice that I was buying other people more drinks so that they'd sit and get drunk with me, thereby enabling me.

I remember one time in particular. I was talking with my friend the next day. "I don't get it -- I had $80 in my pocket when I went out -- now that's gone and it looks like I hit the ATM around midnight, and that's gone too" ... "Dude, you kept buying pitchers -- no one else wanted any more beer, but you kept ordering more and drinking them yourself".

About that time, I discovered credit cards. "Its not *real* money and it doesn't deplete your cash". About that time I also discovered "instant friends". My actual friends had steadily put some distance between us. Of course I didn't notice it. I just thought they were moving on and didn't have time anymore. They didn't stop partying -- they just stopped partying with *me*.

One day I realized that my Sundays had become a "recovery day" for me. I kept missing them. I'd sleep in until late in the afternoon, wake up feeling like total crap, and basically spend the night trying to put myself together again in time for Monday so I could face the work week. I had to "protect the supply", you see, and that meant earning money.

"I work hard and I play hard" -- "I play hard so that I can work hard" -- self-cons, it was my disease talking, of course.

No big deal, I thought. I'm trying to get too much partying done in one night. Work is soooooo stressful, and people just don't understand all the things I have to deal with. I simply need to "spread it out a little". Lots of folks start their weekend at "drink-thirty" on a Friday -- I don't *need* to stay late at work to catch up, or go straight home for food and rest. Two nights a week will be more fun than one night a week anyway.

By this time, pretty much no one would hang out with me. I stopped being invited to parties. If I'd try to throw a party, no one would show up. Also, the staff at my regular haunts started to know me too well, but that's okay because those places were getting boring anyway. Time to find some new places.

So I'd start my weekend on Friday night. If I could find a way to leave work early and hit the bar that much sooner, then I'd do it. By this time I had discovered "pre-drinking" -- hit some hole-in-the-wall gin mill first, have a few quick ones to get into the mood, and then start bar-hopping at the *real* joints, where the people are.

Still no one would hang out with me except for any "instant friends" I could find for the night along the way. Forget about playing some pool or tossing some darts -- I was *drinking* -- that was the activity. Even if I would try a game or two, I couldn't hardly shoot straight, let alone hold the table for any length of time.

At first, the "spread it out" strategy seemed to work. I'd have some fun on Friday night, feel a little woozy in the morning but I'd feel fine again by the time nightfall hit, certainly fine enough to go out again. Saturday night *was* the "main event", afterall, and it seemed like I wasn't drinking quite so much on Saturday as I used to. Well and good.

Water finds it own level, and a gas will expand to fill its container. Now I had two nights in a row to get blitzed, and my disease said "Wooo-hooo!". I realized that I didn't have to wait until Saturday night -- Saturday afternoon was an even better time to start because I could work on my pool game over a few beers first without being bothered about having to hold on to the table.

All of this took a matter of years. It didn't happen overnight. The progression was steady and on-going and I don't think it ever actually let up. If I'd "go dry" for a while, it "proved" that I didn't have a problem. When I'd start up again, I'd quickly find myself right back where I started. Sunday wasn't enough "recovery time". I'd still feel like crap on Monday... then Tuesday... then it took until Wednesday before I'd feel better.

Hey, its Thursday night -- the weekend it almost here, and besides, Friday is an easy day for me... Why not start the weekend a little early?

Then I joined a bowling league. What a good way to spend "hump day" night! Break up the week a little. But oh uh, I had to work the next day. "It must be Thursday" became one of my sayings. So I stopped bowling, (no one wanted to bowl with me anymore anyway) and I switch my "Wednesday night" back to "Thursday night, but not so much".

I started as a weekend binger. It was "the norm" when I began. By the time I finally stopped, "weekend" was pretty much defined as being any day that ended with "Y". Whenever I'd go out, I simply wouldn't want the night to end. I'd find a sort of "perfect moment", a state where I'd feel like a human being, and okay and "happy", and I'd want to stretch that moment out for as long as possible. I would not want the moment or the night to end. Ever.

That's just me -- I'm not saying that's you. For me the progression was steady, and real, and overpowering. It wasn't so much that it was "unnoticeable" -- it was that I didn't *want* to notice it. If someone pointed it out to me, I had any number of "excuses" (self-cons) to "justify" it. I didn't even care anymore, just so long as I could keep the night going.

Protecting my "right to drink" was very important to me for a long time. Realizing it, and realizing what it was doing to me, and finally seeing the steady progression in my life for what it was... that was a central part of my accepting the fact that I am indeed an alcoholic, which was the first hurdle I had to overcome in order to start seeking recovery.

Since accepting my alcoholism, and since starting a life of recovery, I've found other ways to "feel human" again, ways which do not involve alcohol. Its as if its a skill I've had to re-learn along the way. I no longer have that "urgent desperation" to find that "moment" and stretch it out so that it never ends. Instead, I find those "moments" along the way as I live my life. Its not all "peaches and cream", but then no one ever said life would be, either.

Those "moments" are real, however. They're not based on some chemical oxidizing in my brain, and sometimes I find them in the most unexpected places. Life is much better sober.

Thank You God for pulling me out of that nightmare!

Che

These excerpts seem like they would be very helpful for people who know alcoholics as well...

After reading it, it makes me question whether I am an alcoholic or not, however. If alcoholic is a definition of physical dependency, then I do not fall under this category. I don't seem to have any of the symptoms the excerpts are describing, I don't think I've ever had a hangover in my life. I drank a particular amount of alcohol every night for a long time (literally the same amount, the same glass, the same brand of vodka). I became more tolerant to it, of course, but when I started drinking more I had the symptoms a normal drinker has... feeling sick. It makes me think I am just a person who drank to much and for me it was psychological. Regardless, this issue particular to me means I only require different methods, not that I will ever drink again.

It makes me feel bad about some advice I've given on these forums though, because I had thought of it as an entirely psychological thing. I might have changed my posts a little if this were the case.

To continue what I was saying earlier, I quit relatively easily... I didn't experience any physical withdrawal, just a normal 'what do I do' feeling that could result from the absence of any habit.

Regardless, I will be more sensitive to those who suffer from physiological susceptibility. Maybe if I hadn't have quit as quickly as I did, I would discover the same horrible consequences.

Froglet

i love the exerts that tell me how dangerous alcohol is.