kindablue

You know for those of us chronic relapsers,it appears as though by giving in so many times ,it's like we have this failure mechanism
built by our own subconscious design.there are those with a strong will,and when they decided to quit that was it,and thier will is in tact.what about those whose will is easily blown over like a leaf in a breeze?it's no longer a reliable bastion,the sentry is easily overpowered at his post and the savage hords just come in and raid the city.such is my analogy,so how does one with an eroded will actually make a good decision about anything
especially something like quiting drinking,which i've done a thousand times but i gave in eventually.so we have people that want to quit,know that it's in their best interest yet have given in sooo many damn times that their will is broken.so how can one finally fortify the broken will and make a final stand turning back those demons at the gate and stand victorious?this is my dilema
as a chronic relapser,it's so easy to say screw it and pick up a drink when i've sworn it off..i've done it a thousand times....

D_L

Strength of will did not lead me to the path of recovery just the opposite was true, inabilty to stop drinking on my will alone brought me to this program. Admittance of alcoholism and acceptance that moral fiber could not help me but spirituallity could, has kept me sober. So you see it is not about strength it is about being willling to go to any length, to work a program without reservation that has kept many an alcoholic clean and sober. That is HOW it works

Honesty....I am an alcoholic and my life is unmanageable.
Openmindedness....I may not have all the answers.
Willingness.....I need to work and do what it takes to maintain my recovery one day at a time.......


M

screen3

Chronic "relapsers" do not REALLY want to quit. They may say they do, but their behavior proves their words false. In that moment that they drink against their better judgment, they are making a conscious decision to choose weakness over strength, stupidity over wisdom and vileness over morality. They prefer the deep pleasure of alcohol and escape over reality. They tell themselves that they are powerless over it and, therefore, they are.

Many people have simply made a commitment to stop drinking forever and have done so because they recognize the benefits of a clear mind over drug-induced stupidity and health over a poisoned mind and body. Some may say that those people are not "true" alcoholics, but we know better. At least that's my opinion.

DeaconAA

Mr. Blue...

Don here, recovered alkie. I'd like to share with you a couple paragraphs out of a book I read quite often, "Tools For Fools" which goes as follows:

"I don't believe I would have to fight the world's heavyweight boxing champ, even once, before I would be willing to tip my hat, and admit he was a better man in a fight that I was. But I fought the bottle, a thousand times, and it whipped me worse than the world's champ could have, and I came back and fought it a few thousand times more. That isn't proving manhood. All it proved was that I was incapable of whipping alcohol. So who cares? No one cared that I couldn't beat it; but everybody close to me cared that I kept on trying. Now I believe the reason why I was so stupidly stubborn was this: MY RESISTANCE TO ACCEPTING ALCOHOLISM AS A DISEASE, IS PART OF THE DISEASE.

One of the tools I use for staying sober is this. Once it was established that I was an alcoholic, or at least had a drinking problem, two things became true. One, if I didn't take a drink, I had all the rights of every other citizen...no one could push me around. Two, if I took a drink, I didn't have any more rights than a rabbit."

The author concludes..."I don't believe that I will take a drink in the next twenty-four hours, unless I forget two things. One: I have a progressive, incurable, terminal illness. I don't care whether any of the other six billion people in the world believe this or not. Two: I'm incapable of understand how to live longer than 24 hours at a time."

Mr. Blue....you might want to give these words some thought.

Don A.
d.o. s. 11/19/70

Recovering

Hi Kindablue,

I agree with D_L. My will alone was not enough to make me stop drinking. I simply
did not know how to do it. When I finally received the "gift of desperation", I
became willing to do whatever was necessary to stay sober. I may not have had the
will to stop drinking but I had the will to become willing to learn how not to
drink. I turned to those that had already been taught and I LET them teach me.

I had to drop all preconceived notions of what would work and not work for me. If I
did that, I would just be placing conditions on my sobriety. I would have been
telling myself that I knew how to stay sober. I had to accept the fact that I
didn't have all the answers. I just did what they suggested and tried not to analyze
it.

I asked many questions and when I didn't understand their answers, I was told to be
patient as the answers would come to me in time. They were right. It was like I wanted
to have the knowledge of the teacher on the first day of school.

My willingness to go to any length had to become my number ONE priority if I wanted
to stay sober. Everything else came second because without sobriety, nothing else
was possible.

I understand that there are different programs available to those who want to quit
drinking. I can only suggest that you pick one and put your heart and soul into it.
I only know what worked for me through AA.

I know that you will get sober when you are finally ready. You will find what you
need inside of you to take the UNCONDITIONAL steps toward your goal of sobriety.

I wish you all the best.

MootPoint

Chronically relapsing makes it that much easier to relapse. So, indeed, you've built yourself a relapse mechanism. Remember, however, that failure at abstinance does not equate to your being a failure at life. I felt that way about my life and it made me drink that much more.

Now, your drinking.... do you admit that you are powerless over alcohol? Not powerless over everything in life, just over alcohol? If so, you are already on Step One in AA. If you choose that route (AA) get thyself to a meeting and LISTEN. And, if you're up to it, talk.

If not AA, here are some other programs that might help...
***edited by forum director***
http://soberrecovery.com/links/12stepalternatives.html

As for what "cured" me (a chronic relapser)

I went through the cycle of chronic relapse, to the point where my health and relationships (well, relationship, I had only one) were damaged. Still I drank, even telling my s/o that I was going to quit. I wasn't sure I wanted to live or die.

Then I almost died, wound up on a ventilator for alcohol poisening. THey said it was a miracle that I 1) came off the vent and 2) had any brain cells... they were sure I would have significant brain damage.

Still wasn't sure I wanted to live, but decided to go to an AA meeting, so I went the day I got out of the hospital. And kept on going. After a week without drinking and going to AA every night, I decided I didn't want to leave my s/o with a dead body so I decided to continue absinance. Another couple weeks passed and I wanted to live. So, I am not drinking and am going to AA every night.

Peter

For years I litened to people telling me that "My will power must be weak" because I could not stop drinking.

The world of ignorance surrounding this statement helped to keep me in misery because I believed it and kept trying by own unaided will to stop on my own.

However I sat in an AA meeting and for the first time in my life I HEARD THE TRUTH.


BIG BOOK QUOTE pg 45
We coulld wish to be moral, we could
wish to be philosophically comforted, in fact, we could
will these things with all our might, but the needed power
wasn't there. Our human resources, as marshalled by
the will, were not sufficient; they failed utterly."


Having heard that I came to realize that a Spiritual experince that began with my admission of POWERLESSNESS over alcohol was the only thing that was going to help me.


BIB BOOK QUOTE pg 44
"We hope we have made clear
the distinction between the alcoholic and the nonalcoholic.
If, when you honestly want to, you find you cannot
quit entirely, or if when drinking, you have little control
over the amount you take, you are probably alcoholic.
If that be the case, you may be suffering from an
illness which only a spiritual experience will conquer."


Just as Recovering said.I had to choose a course of action and persue it with all my heart.

Other programmes may or may not be able to help you but I believe it will only happen if the Spiritual elements of Courage,Faith,Honesty,Willingness and Trust are embraced.

Peter.

The Jay Walker

originaly posted by Screen3

quote
__________________________________
Chronic "relapsers" do not REALLY want to quit. They may say they do, but their behavior proves their words false. In that moment that they drink against their better judgment, they are making a conscious decision to choose weakness over strength, stupidity over wisdom and vileness over morality. They prefer the deep pleasure of alcohol and escape over reality. They tell themselves that they are powerless over it and, therefore, they are.

_________________________________

I know were all different, and I could not imagine posting something like this, this is grouping so many people into one catagory and I find it very irresponsible, and don't see how it could possibly help anybody, most of us here do understand the helplessness of alcoholism, as we have lived it.
it is imposible to explain it somebody who has not been there.

Kindablue

First you are a sick person trying to get well, not a bad person trying to get good, it took courage to post here for help,
most everybody is here for the same reason, to stay sober and hopefully pass something on that will help another.

have you tried A.A, or any other recovery program?
I know a lot of people who have been able to stop without relapsing, and there life has changed to the point were they actually help people, I know its hard to stay stopped, but there are several methods that can teach you some valuable tools to combat your drinking, find one that you can agree with and go for it with all you have, that is what it took for me,

Don S

Thank you, Jay. Of course chronic relapsers want to quit. False, weak, stupid, vile? How about human?
Drinking is easy; quitting is hard--especially if we tell ourselves over and over that it MUST be hard because we CAN'T do it. We have to work at things that are hard, but that doesn't mean they are impossible.

Once we start making moral judgments about behavior we will lapse into a cycle of blame, guilt, helplessness, and continue the behavior because we don't think we can break the pattern. "Might as well drink, I'm a f**k up anyway...""Everybody expects me to drink...."

You are not your behavior. You have value as a person, no matter how desperate your situation. The decision to drink is conscious, but it is so thoroughly engrained that it is ALMOST automatic.

I've never been a smoker, but I come from a whole family of them. What could possibly make them want to keep putting those burning leaves in their mouths when they KNOW how bad it is for them and everyone around them? It is a thoroughly irrational thing to do, and every smoker on the planet knows it by now. So why do they continue? Because it has become a physical habit with a psychic reward.

Alcohol has an even more powerful psychic reward, because it relaxes parts of the brain that can become very annoying otherwise. You know, the parts that remind us of what we need to be doing, or how awful we're feeling. We might actually have to face those things if we remain sober. Planning for reality can be an important part of sobriety, as anyone who has experienced anxiety or depression can attest.

Our pattern of using alcohol can be powerful enough that our desire for it can overcome rational thinking. So we KNOW that we want to quit, but we keep buying the bottles and opening them and pouring them. Of course, maybe the first step in quitting is to NOT buy them...just taking a concrete action like removing all alcohol from our surroundings can be very liberating. But it will be hard to quit unless you
--find some motivation.. Others here have talked about the spiritual basis for that motivation, but it can also be simple practical concerns like, say, your wife leaving you;
--make a conscious decision to quit. Take that first step now; not later, not tomorrow.
--make a plan for how you are going to stick with that plan. Write it down, or better yet, post it here.
--plan for urges and how to combat them. Visualize your day and how it is going to go differently this time. Make up a saying that will help you NOT put that bottle in the shopping cart. Mine was "there will be no alcohol in my house or in my body." It was a promise I made to my kids, and that made it easier to keep. Say it to yourself, out loud if necessary (who cares what people think?).
--get the reinforcement that will help you with that plan. Here, at meetings, from your family and friends, or wherever you feel safe.
--practice, persist, and be patient with yourself. You're learning new ways of living.
--pick yourself up from each lapse, understand how it happened, and don't beat yourself up over it.

Take care of yourself, blue, and thanks for posting.
Don S

MootPoint

Well said, Don, Peter, and Jay!

And, Kindablue....... please keep in contact, whether you've relapsed or not. We aren't in the business of judging ppl.

Chy

Well said Moot....

Blue just know we have all been there a zillion times trying to quit. We have all lied to ourselves over and over, WE ALL WERE and some still are sick, how do you get better when you are truly sick?

Hint: You won't get better alone.

I know your time will come, when you will no longer have those chronic relapses, but continuous , blissful, sobriety, I know you deserve it as much as any off us.

Still praying for ya my friend!

screen3

Sorry. I relapsed into my old self-righteous, prickish self. You should understand, because I couldn't help it. I meant what I said, though, and I am sure it is not helpful to anyone who views her/his self as powerless, but it might help someone believe s/he is NOT powerless. As a wo/man thinketh, so is s/he. I, too, thought I was powerless over alcohol at one time, but I found out I am not. And, to whoever aked, yes I have participated in recovery groups including AA.

Please notice that I do not post on the AA forum, but only in the Alcoholics forum which is open to different viewpoints. I am simply stating my opinion.

The Jay Walker

Screen3

you have a point I guess if it helps even one person then its all good, it has worked for you.
you know we have talked on here only for a couple months and I still know so little about you , your story, hell i still don't even know your sobriety date, I hope you let us in, and share with us about your sobriety sometime, it can really help the newcomers.
and it would be nice to get to know the wo/man behind the posts.

munchdaddy

Hey screen,
Your point is very valid. I know for me, it wasn’t until I really made the leap, and made quitting a dire priority, that I finally stopped. DonS says that “of course chronic relapsers want to quit.” I know that when I was relapsing I wanted to quit. For me it was a matter of how much. How far was I willing to go. I once read a story in which a former drunk claimed that he would rather set his head on fire than ever drink again. He said this with such sincerity that it really struck me. I think that certain personalities have to take this extreme view. When the desire to stop reaches that high of a level, then finding what helps (AA, RR, SMaRT….) are much more effective. I know that I reached a point where if someone told me that if I painted myself purple and ran naked through the streets, it would help me quit, I would have. When the choice becomes the priority, the technique is that much more effective.

screen3

I have been in a bad mood lately due to some circumstances in my life and I'm sorry if it came out in my post. I do mean what I said, but I could have been nicer. Thanks for the interest in my story, but I don't see how sharing those details helps. I know that there are many people out there that have/had the same problem I had and I don't need to hear all their details to help me.

I believe God and I are the only ones who can help me and my focus is now on the present and future over which I have some control, rather than on the past which I can only learn from but cannot change. I also believe that God is inseperably within me and all other souls and that s/he (trying to be politically correct) is the source of all our lives and power.

I believe that I can only be sober one day at a time. I can also only live or do anything one day at a time - really one moment at a time. There is no other time than now. I have made a firm commitment to remain sober in every moment of now for the rest of my life and my confidence is set at 100%.

I also believe that there is no need to count days of sobriety. I don't need to count days because I simply don't drink, period. No one deserves a medal for acting like a decent person and I don't expect anyone to jump for joy because I decided not to act like an idiot. I am not sure of the exact date of my last drink, though I know it was in January of 2001.

And finally, I believe that George W. Bush can turn this country into what it once was - an arctic wasteland, covered with ice.

Regards,
Screen3 (dude)

Ninerfan

Well Screen..It does sound like you've got a lot going on in your life. Hope it all works out for ya. I was going to hammer you for that insensitive post but I wont now. Because I basically agree with your premise that kindablue still wants to drink, otherwise he would stop. And this could be semantics. But I feel we simply dont stop until the pain gets to be to much. Blue I hope you are almost there but no one knows. Maybe a Higher Power does. We have a saying in AA, 'Put the plug in the jug and leave it there.' and 'Just don't drink, no matter what.'

I mean practically speaking, nothing can be done for you or by you until YOU stop drinking. If you havent tried AA I suggest you do that right away. Why? Bedause I think you need to be around sober people, I don't think you can do this all by yourelf. You sound like you could really benefit from a treatment facility too. 28 days of enforced sobriety might be just what you need to get over the hump.

Screen, the importance of my story is simply so that the newcomer can identify with me. So that he knows that he/she is not going through this thing all alone. That they are not crazy. And most important, that if I can stay sober then maybe they can too. Your story may not be important to you but it is to me. But you know whatever you feel comfortable with.