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True reason why I won't go to AA

Old 09-13-2007, 11:06 AM
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Wow, so many answers, thanks all when I have a bit of time I will read everything through!
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Old 09-13-2007, 11:16 AM
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nakur

Our book has a section of stories under the heading of; "They nearly lost all". Many did not have to lose everything to see they had a problem and needed a solution.

Some of us have had to hit a bottom..For me I crashed through the bottom floor of the elvator...However because the tradition states "the only requirement for membership is a desire to stop" there are amny who stopped because they knew they were headed for a dark place....Many of my friendas here did not hit bottoms..many suffered what is described as a high bottom...It really doesn't matter how a person gets here..What matters most is the journey upon arrival.
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Old 09-13-2007, 12:32 PM
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well, it dose say " a god of my understanding"...which I don't fully
understand half of the time.

but the way i understand my HP is....I don't have to belive or
understand my god...that's how it got expresses in my conscious.
That's why god is god..becuase if god is so powerful and IS perfect love.
well, i read somewhere. Perfect Love demands nothing. So if god should demand
that i beliving in god..then that's a fualt god. So I guess, that would mean
i should change my mind or perception of what god is.
God is prefect not I, i'm just an ex-drunk.lol
And i read somewhere, GOD's stregnth is perfect in my perfect weakness.

you know how some people say god is not lost.
The way I process that is...maybe I'm not supose to figure god out,
I'm supose to figure me out..lol step #4 rather, rather...lol

but as i get closer. I belive god works through people.
That how it gets express in my consciousness today...who knows
I might have to change my perceptions of what god is tommorrow.
it's a conception.

I also remember people telling me...if I don't comprehend the current step
then I need to work the steps backwards...
meaning if i have a hell of a time with step #3, i should go back to step#2.
If I have a hell of a time with step #2 then I should go back to step#1.
If I have a hell of a time with step#1 then i should go back to the nearist
bar.

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Old 09-13-2007, 02:28 PM
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Hi nakur, you say you don't want to go to AA because you cannot do step 1. Does that mean you have no desire to stop drinking? Because thats all they ask from you at AA. So why are you in SR?

Although I don't go to AA now, I have been to AA and I did get alot out of it. It helped me alot. (If you're socially phobic I found the bigger meetings better as you can be more anonymous.) I found listening to the main share at the beginning of a meeting extremely helpful. You hear about peoples experiences and theres always something you can identify with - you'll hear why people have taken so long to put the bottle down - often the same reason as yourself - they think that one day they can drink normally. Over and over again, alcoholics have been saying/thinking the same thing. I think I'm just getting it now, it seems ok now for me to just accept it and at present it doesn't seem such a big deal anymore.

I don't go to AA anymore, I don't like the local one in this town and would have to go further afield, though I do still recognise that while I disagree with alot of AA, there is alot of good in it too, alot that is too valuable to ignore or just not go to, so I would never rule out going again.

If anything, I found the program or atleast the meetings I went to, weren't spiritual enough! To go to a more spiritual meeting I had to go further afield to a meeting known locally as the "God Squad". One of the many things that AA gave me was my new found faith - I became a Catholic last year. Yes I know there are atleast as many faults in the Catholic Church as there are in AA and I'm not suggesting that anyone else should join! I just know that if I work the Catholic 'program' it will work for me, if I do it properly, just as if I do the AA program, that will work too - if I do it properly.

If you want to give up drinking, in my experience, (on the whole) AA is a good place to go, if you don't like it, you don't have to go again.
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Old 09-13-2007, 04:24 PM
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rite all..
hope alls well an every1's ok
justbakfrom my AA f2f meeting
well mmmm as i sed in my earlier post my own father is sober tru AA and a solid AA
ambassodor so 2 spk...
i decided 2nite fully that im havin a break from AA
mabye it s my downfall(as they say!) or mabye its my beginning who knows
ill tell u who knows GOD ALMIGHTY and no1 else
mi sponsor or so-called sponsor talked absolute garbage 2nite
hes a gudman an sober nearly20yrs but hes in bondage to meetings
no disrepect all...but im gunno be dealing with my addictions/alki/dope/ with yeshuaJC and reading bible daily
another thing that has made me decide is they say
PERSONAL recovery depends on AA UNITY
and as im a christian(not worldly christian do)(no denomination etc etc)
well my faith is my recovery depends on my daily FULL surrender 2 god
and nothing else
my will -gods will
me drinkin or not dunt depend on other peeps(or im deluded as some in AA say)
and last but not leastly...this is gunno **** alot of peeps off but gotta say it
checkout the 12step success rates 5% stay sober
somert like 48% never return afta their first meet
and somert like 70% of peeps leave AA afta being in AA around a yr or so
anyhows im a little down on AA at min(i mite hav a change of heart who knows only GOD!)
also my father wont like my decision(hes 10yrs sober in AA approx)
however its MY decision

thx all 4 gud posts n topic's
nite an god bless
dan30 UK
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Old 09-13-2007, 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted by boogiedan View Post
i decided 2nite fully that im havin a break from AA
mabye it s my downfall(as they say!) or mabye its my beginning who knows
ill tell u who knows GOD ALMIGHTY and no1 else
I hope that what ever method you use to stay sober you are successful. I truly believe that there is more than one way to tame the tiger.

mi sponsor or so-called sponsor talked absolute garbage 2nite
hes a gudman an sober nearly20yrs but hes in bondage to meetings
no disrepect all...but im gunno be dealing with my addictions/alki/dope/ with yeshuaJC and reading bible daily
I am sorry you were unable to find a sponsor that had what you were looking for. I have had 4 different sponsors (one was a temporary sponsor), over the past 7 years. I think I have finally been able to find one with the qualities I am seeking in my life. One that knows how to live life both in and outside the doors of A.A. I believe that the people who live in meetings are there for a reason but in my life right now it is just as important for me to be able to live in the world outside the doors of A.A.

another thing that has made me decide is they say
PERSONAL recovery depends on AA UNITY
and as im a christian(not worldly christian do)(no denomination etc etc)
well my faith is my recovery depends on my daily FULL surrender 2 god
and nothing else
my will -gods will
me drinkin or not dunt depend on other peeps(or im deluded as some in AA say)
So much of any book is dependent upon personal interpretation of the information. When I read personal recovery depends on A.A. unity what it says to me is that my recovery is more important than my personal feelings about someone elses personality. I am there to stay sober not fight with anyone or worry about their side of the street. Ironically, my issues with organized religion (particularly Christianity) is the many different interpretations of the interpretations of the interpretations of the original Bible. I think a lot has been lost in the translation and too many times it is used to beat someone over the head rather than lift them up. Too many people use it to justify their feeling superior to someone else. But that is just my opinion and reasoning for staying away from organized religion.
I do agree that surrender is very important. In fact it is a part of Step Three "Turning our will and lives over to the care of God as we understand him". Without surrender there would be no sobriety for me.

and last but not leastly...this is gunno **** alot of peeps off but gotta say it
checkout the 12step success rates 5% stay sober
somert like 48% never return afta their first meet
and somert like 70% of peeps leave AA afta being in AA around a yr or so
Ironically I have heard those statistics over and over but have searched for the source in vain. The only place I can find much about them has been on anti A.A. sites. Which leads me to question the validity of the statistics. Who were the people polled? (I know I wasn't one of them). When was the poll done? Since A.A. does not keep formal records on its members (anomynity) then how can anyone determine the rate of success or failure, people only attending one meeting, leaving after a year or so? What are the success rates of other programs? I never hear anything about the success or failure rates on them, only read the statistics against A.A. on their sites? I think that anyone who reads statistics on anything needs to question the validity of the statistics as they are too easily manipulated to portray what the person posting them wants them to portray whether it be positive or negative. I no longer let those statistics bother me. What bothers me is when they are thrown out there to justify someone's reasoning that A.A. does not work since they chose to drop out. I think it is quite misleading and really can harm someone who wants to find a way to get sober. There are enough misgivings and fears when an alcoholic seeks help but unverifiable statistics only make things more difficult. I only hope that anyone wanting to try A.A. will take those statistics with a grain of salt.


anyhows im a little down on AA at min(i mite hav a change of heart who knows only GOD!)
also my father wont like my decision(hes 10yrs sober in AA approx)
however its MY decision
I hope things work out with you and your father and I truely wish you the best. I hope you continue to post here as this is not an A.A. site it is a recovery site and all are welcome here. I hope you take my comments with a grain of salt. They are not intended to be hurtful just provide some insight and questions. Take care.
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Old 09-13-2007, 06:11 PM
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Nandm, I really like your viewpoint, and particularly I very much agree with what you said about statistics. Statistics of any kind always lead me to wondering all the things you said.. who conducts the survey?, Who benefits from the results? Who is polled, where are they polled.. etc., etc.

I've seen addicts stay in AA and stay clean/sober
I've seen addicts stay in AA and relapse over and over
I've seen addicts quit without AA
I've seen addicts quit/relapse without AA
And I've seen addicts who have worked their little touchies off with AA, their bible studies and still relapse.

It's almost like a toin coss (I don't mean that to sound callous)

As for all the ones that seem to make meetings their life, again I have to say if it works for them that's great, some people need to have the ongoing life long support. My xhb keeps asking me when I am going to stop going to my therapist and group therapy.... my answer: When I feel like it or can no longer afford the $20 copay
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Old 09-13-2007, 08:45 PM
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I haven't hit "Rock Bottom" yet. When it comes down to it, none of us really have. There is a brand new "Rock Bottom" out there for each and every one of us. I know it's out there and I know it will wait patiently. Therefore I have not hit it and God willing I never will. That is why I don't drink. Not because of what has happend, but more like what will happen. I didn't like the last one and I'm certain I won't like the next one, which with no doubt will be worse.
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Old 09-13-2007, 09:09 PM
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Originally Posted by nandm View Post
.

Ironically I have heard those statistics over and over but have searched for the source in vain. The only place I can find much about them has been on anti A.A. sites. Which leads me to question the validity of the statistics. Who were the people polled? (I know I wasn't one of them). When was the poll done? Since A.A. does not keep formal records on its members (anomynity) then how can anyone determine the rate of success or failure, people only attending one meeting, leaving after a year or so?
Excellent points, nandm. Even if people leave AA after a year, there's no way of knowing if they fall off the wagon. And if a lot of people go, figure its not for them, and don't come back - that's hardly a self-evident failure.

Not saying AA's perfect - and I'm only really a toe-dipper into the fellowship anyway, but a lot of anti-AA stuff which claims to be objective or reasonable is just thinly disguised ax-grinding. (I don't mean this thread at all.) There are things about (and people in) AA that makes me want to bang my head off the wall, but there are a lot of things and people that are wise and noble and helpful to everyone.
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Old 09-14-2007, 02:07 AM
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Pincuda wrote:
I haven't hit "Rock Bottom" yet. When it comes down to it, none of us really have. There is a brand new "Rock Bottom" out there for each and every one of us.
Dead on the bathroom floor is pretty much an ultimate for a bottom, hon.
Not trying to be contrary, but there's some bottoms ... you don't come back from.
I know for a fact that I don't get another chance.
I was the one on the floor, you see.
I won't be allowed to come back again.

I always have the knowledge I have another drink in me.
It rides around in my head with me all the time.
I also have the advantage of knowing, without doubt or hesitation ...
I do NOT ... have another recovery.
That .. rides around in my head as well.
That one - I pay attention to.

This is my last chance.
You can't fall out of the basement.
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Old 09-14-2007, 03:26 AM
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Short and to the point Jon, for the most part it looks as though every one agrees that if it works for anyone then it is a good thing!

Like I already said if kissing a goat every morning keeps even one alcoholic sober then I fully support kissing goats for those that wish to, I will not come here or anywhere else and say people that kiss goats to stay sober are weak, or sick in the head, or following the herd!

Alcoholism is a disease that kills people, if a program works I will not knock it, I will respect it.

If some one is looking for a way to get and stay sober and in addition become happy, joyous and free, I will share the solution I found..... AA.

If some one is looking for a way to get and stay sober and in addition become happy, joyous and free, and some one else says "Well I kiss goats every morning and as a result I am sober, happy joyous and free, I am not going to say that kissing goats is bad in my opinion, hey it works for him, who am I to say it will not work for others?

We are all here to share how we have recovered or are recovering with people who are seeking sobriety.

We are not here to bash any method of recovery, we are here to look for a way out of a hole and if we have found a way out of the hole to share how we did it.

BTW I may go out and buy a goat if I relapse and see if that works!!! LOL

There is an old saying in my area that "there is more then one way to skin a cat" and if the cat gets skinned then who cares how it got skinned.
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Old 09-14-2007, 04:29 AM
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Hey Boogie

I can relate to what you're going though and certain feeling about
AA. i went through a simular stage..I was really, really have a heck
of a time with life. So i went to church again. it was a church of
my childhood. it also felt like i was going home . it was a great
help to me. My minister help me a great deal also. i have one on one
bible study. The bible had to be translated to me in a different
way than I was percieving before. It was healing for me. Through
AA i was able to do that...establish a realtionship with god again.
My minister also passes on living spitiaul tools that i can apply to
my life. Tools and ideas that i havn't heard before. so it was also
a learning and growning experince as will. Yeah..I guess i was going
through growning pains.

But here's that kicker...my minister is an old, old timer of AA..lol
that had just moved into town and i had never seen in meetings
before.lol
God works in mysterious ways..lol
well when stuff like happens..it gets me thinking.
you know, not in wildest ideas did i ever imagine a minister being in AA.lol
And to have it happened like that..
that's why i belive god works through people.
it was a message being expressed to me.

She never forced me to do anything..she did suggest that I still should
try to attend AA, NA again..why ? becuase I'm an alcoholic/addict
and i need all the help i can get.

I learned a lot from AA that dosen't really have anything to do with god.
Reamining teach able..has no god mentioned in it.

I think once i think i have all the answers already, I'm not going change
or grow. it's kind of ironic that a drunk usually thinks he has all the answers
already and see his life going down the tubes and thinks he/she is in total
control...yet..their actions remains the same..they can't stopped drinking.lol

it's simple...if drinking f-up your life then stop.
I think most people can intellectaully figure it out and most people do comprehend it.
it's picking a drink after knowing that data, that makes makes it INSANE.lol

Last edited by SaTiT; 09-14-2007 at 04:48 AM.
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Old 09-14-2007, 05:18 AM
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you know, not in wildest ideas did i ever imagine a minister being in AA.lol
SaTiT we have a retired minister in our rooms, great guy.
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Old 09-14-2007, 05:21 AM
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priest here. he's a trip.
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Old 09-14-2007, 05:24 AM
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Hi nandm, couldn't resist a comment on your last post! You say that alot of Christians use their religion to justify their feeling superior. I thought the Catholic Church was a church for sinners! - thats why I go. I find it uplifting because in church you get your sins forgiven, you are encouraged to hand over your problems, to let go. And you can do that everytime you go, hopefully so that things don't build up and then you can go and try again. I am lucky of course, our local church has a great priest who to me is a very good example of what a human being can be (no doubt if he was an alcoholic in AA I would think the same thing). Its funny really, because I find AA has a similar affect on me as christianity does on you. I feel that all the AA people are looking down on me - standing poised and ready to attack should I say anything derogatory about AA and ready to come out with things like, you are not being honest with yourself, you haven't got it, its your sickness talking... its like some of them can't wait to point out that I haven't been sober for long and therefore haven't anything of any value to say, or if I say something they don't like then obviously I'm heading for a drink. I don't like talking about non-alcoholics as 'normal', as I consider myself as normal and don't want to belong to some elite and 'special' group even if it is supportive.

I know the bible has undergone many translations, but I don't take it literally, but tend to look for what I feel is a truth that runs through it. How I enterpret it is up to me, I look for the God that is within me, I look for what feels right, ok I don't always do it but I try and need to keep reminding myself to do that. Its more of a guidance for me and religion just provides some structure for my spirituality. I don't even know the nature of God really, its an on going quest.

Sorry to have gone on so long, I'm reacting again and being oversensitive, paranoid and thinking everyone hates me. I'm trying to cope with these feelings, probably not very well.
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Old 09-14-2007, 06:14 AM
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Its funny really, because I find AA has a similar affect on me as christianity does on you. I feel that all the AA people are looking down on me - standing poised and ready to attack should I say anything derogatory about AA and ready to come out with things like, you are not being honest with yourself, you haven't got it, its your sickness talking... its like some of them can't wait to point out that I haven't been sober for long and therefore haven't anything of any value to say, or if I say something they don't like then obviously I'm heading for a drink. I don't like talking about non-alcoholics as 'normal', as I consider myself as normal and don't want to belong to some elite and 'special' group even if it is supportive.
I THINK like others have told me this depends on which meeting you go to, I experienced very similar experiences as you mention in the meetings I have attended which as a result has led me to seek out another recovery path..
When I shared my story for the first time I was not interrupted HOWEVER afterwards I was greeted and told "I had not hit my bottom" , "I wasn't done", etc.
all because I had just a simple light bulb moment to stop drinking for good (yes I had setbacks like everyone else) I did not have the war stories as many in those meetings had, I had no list of ammends as I only hurt myself, and I did not feel it necessary to turn my will over to a higher power, surely I will ask for guidance when I need to but to the AA members I met and spoke to, I was bound for failure, If I didn't Work "the program" I was going to fail.. period. I am not a computer, I am a human being and the word "program" is NOT in my recovery what-so-ever, that is MY opinion and may not be right for others but it is for me .. again.. TODAY.
My God as I understand him, did not give me a floppy disk along with instructions on how to "run" my life, however he did give me the will, the faith, and the wisdom to make choices and through bad choices I learn.
Let me again re-iterate this is just my path and experience with the meetings I have attended. I attended AA in three states, I have also made friends for life in Al-Anon which initially gave me the starting point I needed to take the focus OFF of my then addict husband and onto me.. I found a great deal of support in Al-Anon and I also found again I needed to continue on in a different manner which I was comfortable with. I'll always be grateful however to the stepping stone I got from Al-Anon.


As told to me here and others in various parts of the world, I will always have a seat somewhere amongst AA and I do find some comfort in that. I will admit to putting down AA as a whole sometimes and in retrospect it is unfair. I consider myself to be very very open minded and I want to stay that way. TODAY I am on the right course, tomorrow I might decide to try another AA Room, I'm going to remain open about that. What I do know is that I am MORE comfortable NOT mixing religion with my recovery, I like science, I believe in science and I think somewhere down the line when the right addiction causation is found you, me and or our great great grand kids will see the total reconstruction of the addiction recovery model. Science is already making great progress, they have identified certain genes associated with addiction thereby lending MORE credence to the fact that addicts are born.. NOT made. I won't go any further with that except to say WE don't hear about these breaktroughs for ONE very big reason.. The addiction/recovery industry is a BILLION dollar and more industry, another discussion for another time.

My point is that I have certain things I want out of my recovery path and as long as I stay sober and make the right changes in myself I consider my way to be the right way for me.. TODAY. I am also Catholic, definately believe in God. I admit that I don't really grasp certain things of the bible and I agree with you, it is up to each person to interpret it the way they see fit to live their life. There is a reason why the Bible is called the greatest STORY ever told. Through the years it has been interpreted by so-called experts and I have just come to the realization that IN MY OPINION the bible is based on stories which were created to teach certain lessons.
There may or may not have been An Adam and Eve, A Noah's Ark, or a burning Bush, or a Kane and Able..however each of those stories has some truth in them but re-created for effect (again, this is JUST my take)

I'm getting a little off topic but I did want to thank everyone for their take on the subject as it is nice to be able to discuss things like this without getting jumped on, censored or banned. It has helped me to know that AA will have a seat there for me if I should decide to give it another try, it's also refreshing to come to that realization and LEARN something new without being told I'm flat out wrong, period.
It is very nice to know that there are AA Fellowships out there that go that extra mile, so I just may have not walked into the right rooms.
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Old 09-14-2007, 07:48 AM
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great info and posts all
i appreciate all wot's sed by all on these forums
as i sed im very glad i found this forum/recovery site
brill stuff

tekcare all an god bless
dan30 UK
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Old 09-14-2007, 08:14 AM
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Hi DoingWell, I wondered when you mentioned your being of Italian descent that you might be a Catholic. I enjoyed reading your latest post, infact I've enjoyed reading all your posts, I think they're great. I respect (and think I understand to some extent) your not wanting to mix religion with your recovery. I also understand why many people don't like Catholiscism, Christianity or any other religion. Both my grown up children are atheists and more science orientated, my mother is Church of England, my father wont go to church because while he believes in the ideals of christianity, he doesn't believe in the crucifixion and of course various other of the more far fetched and hard to believe things. (I don't know either but when I don't know I just put the stories down to symbolism to put forward a point.) We all have some good and animated conversations when we get together though and I really enjoy them!

Anyway, DoingWell, keep posting, I really enjoy reading your points of view!
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Old 09-14-2007, 08:27 AM
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No AA for you?
Here is a list of recovery programs

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...-programs.html

Pick another path and live sober..
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Old 09-14-2007, 08:50 AM
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Originally Posted by nakur View Post
So what now? Do you really have to hit the bottom to believe in step 1? Do I have to lose everything to admit I am powerless? Do I have to wake up and drink a beer in the morning? When will the moment come to admit? It's like my mind is split in half, one part constantly seeking recovery (like now) and one part telling me it's not that bad, that drinking is something that people do.

Just some thoughts on day 5.

The bottom is when you stop digging. I knew beyond a shadow of a doubt that I was powerless, the hard part was accepting the fact that my life was unmanagable. Took me six months to realize this. To answer your question, NO, you DO NOT have to lose everything, I didnt. Only bad thing is that it took me six months of NOT DRINKING to realize this. When was it my time to admit it and I was able to see that it was, When at the time my then girlfriend broke up with me. There were some other things happen leading up to that, but the next day when I woke up is when God hit me up side the head with a spiritual 2X4. And ever since that day, I have been recovering. When I got to AA I didnt believe in God, nor wanted anything to do with anyone that did. What I did was follow suggestions, do what others did, and also, I had the willingness, just enough of it not to go back to the way I was living and try something new, even if I didnt believe.
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