A.A. and our modern society.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,002
A.A. and our modern society.
Every day I remain sober, and every day I watch our society, whether it be through the media or my interaction with my fellow humans, I'm starting to compile a theory as to why AA doesnt work for more people and the statistics for success are not higher.
We live in a time where we want problems in our lives taken care of right now. We want a pill to make us thinner rather than spend the time and effort to eat a balanced diet, and exercise. We want our problems solved with the latest product claiming faster results, and little effort. We expect the latest technology to take care of all our problems.
Even when our problem is the potentially fatal disease of alcoholism, and drug addiction some of us still have the mindset of wanting the quick, painless, and effortless solution.
I'm not saying that I'm against other programs of recovery. But, I am saying that I am suspicious if these other methods claim it's easier, and quicker.
"Keep coming back, IT WORKS IF YOU WORK IT". In our modern lifestyle, is WORK becoming a bad four letter word?
This thread is not made to sound like a rant, and I'm not resentful against those who do not like AA. I'm just voicing a theory based on what I observe out in our world. I know AA works for me, and if I keep putting in the effort, I will continue getting all the amazing results .
Tom
We live in a time where we want problems in our lives taken care of right now. We want a pill to make us thinner rather than spend the time and effort to eat a balanced diet, and exercise. We want our problems solved with the latest product claiming faster results, and little effort. We expect the latest technology to take care of all our problems.
Even when our problem is the potentially fatal disease of alcoholism, and drug addiction some of us still have the mindset of wanting the quick, painless, and effortless solution.
I'm not saying that I'm against other programs of recovery. But, I am saying that I am suspicious if these other methods claim it's easier, and quicker.
"Keep coming back, IT WORKS IF YOU WORK IT". In our modern lifestyle, is WORK becoming a bad four letter word?
This thread is not made to sound like a rant, and I'm not resentful against those who do not like AA. I'm just voicing a theory based on what I observe out in our world. I know AA works for me, and if I keep putting in the effort, I will continue getting all the amazing results .
Tom
Awaiting Email Confirmation
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Worcester
Posts: 789
AA has worked for me also. However, it has never been proven to work better than any other methods, including spontaneous remission. I think a lot of people have issues with members of AA claiming that the program is the only sure-fire way to stay sober.
You may want to check out the http://www.orange-papers.org/ web site for more information on statistical analysis done on AA's efficacy over the years. The author really does not like AA but he is thorough in his documentation and honest in his criticism. IMHO we need people like this to keep the program humble and honest.
You may want to check out the http://www.orange-papers.org/ web site for more information on statistical analysis done on AA's efficacy over the years. The author really does not like AA but he is thorough in his documentation and honest in his criticism. IMHO we need people like this to keep the program humble and honest.
Forum Leader
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Scottsdale, AZ, one big happy dysfunctional family!
Posts: 23,047
Originally Posted by Signal30 
This thread is not made to sound like a rant, and I'm not resentful against those who do not like AA. I'm just voicing a theory based on what I observe out in our world.
I'll take another 24 hours please!
Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: on to bigger & better things
Posts: 4,122
AA is what works for me. Tried just doing church years ago. . .nope, tried it on my own. . .nope, for a few years I was doing both NA/AA, but here in my town NA is not that strong and AA is. My doc ended up being heroin but I know I'm an alcoholic too! And. . .to add if it weren't for AA there would be no NA.
trying to get it..
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: California
Posts: 286
Yes, well I am currently into a book that lists aa success rate as 30% over 2 years regards folks remaining sober.....okay then, but what is better? the book states that THIQ a chemical created in the brain when we ingest alcohol and certain ways our brains process chemistry regards alcohol has an effect as well and that alcohol abuse ( or that is the craving) may be hereditary ..if only it were that easy the one big boffo in the book is helllo, do not drink and start a diet that enhances your bodies process AND AA...so AA will always be there....humans need contact we are tactile and social creatures..
CindeRella is proof that a new pair of shoes can change your life!
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Spreading my wings
Posts: 7,163
Originally Posted by Signal30
Even when our problem is the potentially fatal disease of alcoholism, and drug addiction some of us still have the mindset of wanting the quick, painless, and effortless solution.
I'm not saying that I'm against other programs of recovery. But, I am saying that I am suspicious if these other methods claim it's easier, and quicker.
"Keep coming back, IT WORKS IF YOU WORK IT". In our modern lifestyle, is WORK becoming a bad four letter word?
Tom
I know as a "codie" I wished in the start that there was an easier quick painless way to get to the solution! (Did not work really well for me not being in Al-Anon or seeing my counselor)
(Not bashing those who are not in a program either) but with my own brother I have seen more results with him now being in AA then when he was not and trying other ways/methods to stop drinking on his own. (Kind of suspicious of those other ways myself-) I do not think IMHO that they are as they claim "easier" or "quicker"
I feel that he is now
"WORKING"
Member
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Murrieta, Ca
Posts: 2,683
Orange Papers ? Sorry, but that web page is joke. Why anyone would spend that much time and effort to reveal the secret "dangers" of AA is beyond me. One of my favorite arguments by him is defending logic and reason (which, BTW, the Big Book supports as God Given gifts). Paraphrased by the Orange Papers web page "Hey, logic and reason work for the Vulcans ! "
Anyway, Signal, I agree. We all want a quick fix. A pill to solve everything.
Anyway, Signal, I agree. We all want a quick fix. A pill to solve everything.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Seattle, Washington
Posts: 118
Tom - I agree with you that our society is definately in the "quick fix" mode. However that is not why I'm opposed to AA. I can't even get past the first step- but maybe you can help me understand:
We admitted we were powerless over alcohol—that our lives had become unmanageable.
To me this sounds like a cop out. Are we supposed to just absolve ourselves of responsibility? I just don't believe that anyone/anything but me is choosing to drink - that would be a little to easy wouldn't it? As human beings, I think we need to take responsibility for our own actions - I am not powerless over alcohol - I choose to drink or I don't. It's as simple as that. I think the fellowship of a support group is a very positive thing, that can help make you stronger in your choice to not drink. But I just refuse to believe that I have no control over my own life, and the choices I make - I think that is a cop out.
Have I totally missed the point of step 1? Please let me know - I'm writing this as an opening to a discussion, not to upset anybody!
FallGirl
We admitted we were powerless over alcohol—that our lives had become unmanageable.
To me this sounds like a cop out. Are we supposed to just absolve ourselves of responsibility? I just don't believe that anyone/anything but me is choosing to drink - that would be a little to easy wouldn't it? As human beings, I think we need to take responsibility for our own actions - I am not powerless over alcohol - I choose to drink or I don't. It's as simple as that. I think the fellowship of a support group is a very positive thing, that can help make you stronger in your choice to not drink. But I just refuse to believe that I have no control over my own life, and the choices I make - I think that is a cop out.
Have I totally missed the point of step 1? Please let me know - I'm writing this as an opening to a discussion, not to upset anybody!
FallGirl
Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 1,415
Tom, great idea for a thread, thanks for starting it. I find I really need to be able to talk about AA, anout why it works and why it doesn't. I find I need to be able to examine it, and find parallels between recovery and healthy living within the fellowship and as a result of working the programme, and people who're not alcoholics and living healthy lives. But AA threads are almost always all or nothing - and I think that's what I would like to add to your thread.
In my case AA only began to work when I was wholehearted in my approach to it. At that time, I'd never heard the phrase "half-measures availed us nothing". But I personally had suffered as much as I was able to bear at that moment, and so I became wholehearted in my commitment to AA, and lo and behold, it worked.
That wholeheartedness can still appear as zealotry. But that's the nature of my illness. I'm an all or nothing type of perosnality. Unfortunately for me, after 4 years of sobriety - or dryness - my wholeheartedness is not quite as wholehearted! I'm trying to find my way back through my programme again, with a view to progressing my recovery - and this time round it's effort, not enthusiasm, like you say. But the only way that AA was going to work at the start, and will work now, is if I can commit. Until I could commit, half-measures. At the moment, three-quarter measures. People for whom it fails? They just haven't suffered enough. And maybe, and hopefully, they never will.
Fallgirl, I've been listening to the Joe and Charlie tapes, couple of oldtimers in AA sharing their ESH. They say, quite plainly - you don't do step 1 in AA, or in your head. You do it in the pub. Once you've drunk enough, you'll get it. If you can stop drinking, then you'll never get it!
In my case AA only began to work when I was wholehearted in my approach to it. At that time, I'd never heard the phrase "half-measures availed us nothing". But I personally had suffered as much as I was able to bear at that moment, and so I became wholehearted in my commitment to AA, and lo and behold, it worked.
That wholeheartedness can still appear as zealotry. But that's the nature of my illness. I'm an all or nothing type of perosnality. Unfortunately for me, after 4 years of sobriety - or dryness - my wholeheartedness is not quite as wholehearted! I'm trying to find my way back through my programme again, with a view to progressing my recovery - and this time round it's effort, not enthusiasm, like you say. But the only way that AA was going to work at the start, and will work now, is if I can commit. Until I could commit, half-measures. At the moment, three-quarter measures. People for whom it fails? They just haven't suffered enough. And maybe, and hopefully, they never will.
Fallgirl, I've been listening to the Joe and Charlie tapes, couple of oldtimers in AA sharing their ESH. They say, quite plainly - you don't do step 1 in AA, or in your head. You do it in the pub. Once you've drunk enough, you'll get it. If you can stop drinking, then you'll never get it!
Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Colorado Springs CO
Posts: 889
I'd agree with liveweyerd on this - I've always wanted it and wanted it now, even if I didn't know what IT was. Bigger, better, faster, more, everyday, all the time.
That's not what I got out of the 1st step FallGirl. First I had to identify as an alcoholic (read first 43 pages of the big book repeatedly to do that) and then, an admission of my own limitations and incompetence in my life (pg 52, 8, some say 9 statements). If the transmission in my car breaks, I don't try to fix it myself. That doesn't make me any less responsible for getting it fixed. I take it to a transmission shop. My part is I pay the people. Their part is they fix the transmission. Perhaps this is not the best analogy as AA requires effort, not cash. At any rate, I can't fix the transmission or my alcoholism myself, I need help.
That's not what I got out of the 1st step FallGirl. First I had to identify as an alcoholic (read first 43 pages of the big book repeatedly to do that) and then, an admission of my own limitations and incompetence in my life (pg 52, 8, some say 9 statements). If the transmission in my car breaks, I don't try to fix it myself. That doesn't make me any less responsible for getting it fixed. I take it to a transmission shop. My part is I pay the people. Their part is they fix the transmission. Perhaps this is not the best analogy as AA requires effort, not cash. At any rate, I can't fix the transmission or my alcoholism myself, I need help.
Another Day in Paradise
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Upland, CA
Posts: 900
Re: Fallgirl's question about absolving ourselves of the responsibility. I see the 1st step in a completely different light, just the opposite in fact. Admission of the lack of ability and the recognition that there must be changes made to correct and if you will compensate for that inability to control are in my eyes the ultimate assumption of responsibility.
I had to come to believe that I was unable to drink, period, end of story. For so many years I wanted to slip around that fact. That is, NOT accept responsibility for my actions as an alcoholic and excuse my need to drink based on a particular problem, circumstance, etc. Crisis excused my lack of responsible approach to alcohol in MY life.
AA in my opinion works in the lives of people who really endeavor to know themselves for both their strengths and their weaknesses. That doesn't mean that non-AA adherents are less than those who choose AA, but I think because the focus of AA is so intense when someone really throws themselves into the program that one cannot help but succeed in the desire to right a life that is out of control.
Drinking was my problem, but with AA in my life the program changed so much more that I have come to appreciate the fact that I was lucky some years ago to have had a "drinking problem" otherwise I would have never really got to know me
I had to come to believe that I was unable to drink, period, end of story. For so many years I wanted to slip around that fact. That is, NOT accept responsibility for my actions as an alcoholic and excuse my need to drink based on a particular problem, circumstance, etc. Crisis excused my lack of responsible approach to alcohol in MY life.
AA in my opinion works in the lives of people who really endeavor to know themselves for both their strengths and their weaknesses. That doesn't mean that non-AA adherents are less than those who choose AA, but I think because the focus of AA is so intense when someone really throws themselves into the program that one cannot help but succeed in the desire to right a life that is out of control.
Drinking was my problem, but with AA in my life the program changed so much more that I have come to appreciate the fact that I was lucky some years ago to have had a "drinking problem" otherwise I would have never really got to know me
Member
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Seattle, Washington
Posts: 118
so glassprisoner was kind enough to explain step 1 to me - and I was totally wrong! that absolutely applies to me - once I start drinking there is no stopping until I pass out or get sick. ugh. Thank you for clearing that up!
Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: tennessee
Posts: 592
I dont think AA is the only way to get sober.I know it's only way I can stay sober.Both my grandfathers just stopped.One was the town drunk until he was 40. I can not stay sober without a program of recovery and I know AA works if you work it.Tom I think you are right work is a bad four letter word today.
Awaiting Email Confirmation
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Worcester
Posts: 789
Originally Posted by baggervance
I dont think AA is the only way to get sober.I know it's only way I can stay sober.Both my grandfathers just stopped.
I continue to go to AA because it provides me a reminder of why I need to stay sober. However, I do not buy into the occasional we-are-the-one-true-path talk I hear. It kind of gives me the creeps.
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
