SobrietyFirst

Heck Fire!! If I can't be famous now, then what's the point???

Kinda funny, even with something like writing...if only I was in a writing group. Then....

I've had some ideas for fiction stories hit me over the years, and writing essays and analysis of stuff comes easily at times. For the most part, though, I'll bet it would flow rather easily if I just stuck to a story based loosely on my experience.

I appreciate the encouragement. What did your father write about? What's the name of his book? Is it fiction, non-fiction, or something else?

Chy

Thank you for that Phoenix. As a newcomer now only 15 days into my program , I am a sponge trying to absorb information, enlightenment, and help myself by learning from those here that have many more hours of sobriety then myself.

I am obviously not well versed in the Big Book yet, but I am learning. I've read: and I'm paraphrasing here, "take from this what you can use and apply it towards the betterment of yourself, as it applies to oneself."

That is what I am trying to do. I don't know what to call this, disease, allergy, lack of well , unacceptance of spiritual need, I don't know.

What I do know is as I visit the various threads of this forum. I see in a few that I thought I could benefit from, lambasting of interpretations against each other, while I see it as various personalities expressing what they feel to be correct.

..... and this is very intimidating to me. How can I express an opinion be it fact or just interpretation or even ask a simple question without feeling members who are very experianced and knowledgable in the program, those that have been there done that, without feeling that they'll come at me with nostrils flaring, and guns blazing?

I'd much rather "switch the channels and find something else on". This forum as helped me soooooo much! It got me to my first AA meeting, I am sober 15 days for the first time in over 20 years, and I rely on positive interraction in these forums.

Granted we all have bad days, I guess I just wish when in conflict with other members
it could be done a bit more privatly. Via emails, or PM's.

Us newcomers are very fragile as you old timers once were. I only hope that can be put in perspective before you hit that "submit" button after critisizing one anothers belifs and opinions.

Like I said, I am new here, and am looking up to all here with better insight on my alcholism to help me so that someday I can return the gift a lot of you have given me.

I simply ask we be a bit more sensitive to each other, and what we have to say or express.

Thanks for listening!

justaround

...Not a disease but an illness. The definition of an illness is 1)chronic 2)progressive and 3)potentially fatal if not treated. Alcoholism is all of the above so I know that it fits that category. Just what we are going over right now in my outpateint program.

phoenix

The effect on newcomers is my concern as well.Luckily,for the most part people here are able to express themselves without being critical of others.Now and again we get someone who has difficulty with doing that,but it doesn't usually last long.

Threads of the "Disease or Not' type are actually pretty rare here.Most of us find it best to stick to sharing our experience,strength and hope with each other.It should always be kept in mind that what works well for one person may not for another.

Once in a while...not often...you may notice a person who seems to post just to try to get people upset.There is nothing to be gained by responding to such a person and it's best not to take what they say personally.We have an "ignore this user" option which makes an individual's posts invisable unless you choose to open them.It shows they have replied,but you don't have to see what they said.As I said,such behavior here is rare,but it's nice to have the option of ignoring it.Any person creating a serious disturbance by abusive posting can be reported and may be banned.That's a last resort and one we have seldom needed to use.Most folks here are very supportive and friendly.

Congrats on the 15 days and keep posting.Don't hesitate to ask questions or talk about whatever is on your mind

phoenix

crb108

coincidence often seems much more than just that... so it seems very serendipitous to see someone discuss putting their story on paper.

in an attempt to give myself some more motivation and discipline, i recently decided to turn my trek into sobriety into a book... and this discussion will play a prominent role... do i need to quit? can i quit? is it a disease? if so, do i have it? etc... it's an internal debate many of us seem to have, especially newcomers like myself.

and although i haven't put pen to paper yet, i've been recording my thoughts on cassette and have found it very cathartic...

so SF, whether or not you plan on doing anything with it or not, you might want to just write everything down... the least it can do is give you the peace of mind it's given me in the past... and not just with drinking, but with any internal conflict you may have... nothing opens your eyes more than seeing the thoughts, fears and concerns you have sitting on a piece paper in front of you... i know it's worked -- not only me, but for others i've met as well.

just an idea.

Ninerfan

My initial concern was for the newcomer. What must they be thinking? Here we are arguing over the disease concept, and some of it not very nice. But I forgot how tough alcoholics are. I forgot how onery and stubborn I was (am?) when I came into the program. And I forgot that disease, no disease it just didn't matter. AA had a solution to my living problem. As we say, it works if you work it. And it is not for everyone but you wont know that until you try. And if it is not for you then try something else. And if you feel the need to tell us about it then TRY to be respectful.

If my sobriety is not attractive to newcomers then I need to do some more work on myself or maybe another approach will work. We dont need to sugar coat things for the newcomer nor do we need to make things any harder than they currently are. Life happens, sometime it is good and we are all in agreement and singing songs and holding hands and just having a grand time. Other times are very difficult and nothing seems to be working out and there doesn't seem to be a reason why. I just need to remember that a drink will not make things better. I need to be convinced of that. Life, over time evens out. We learn to accept life on lifes terms, not ours.

This thread has challenged my thinking and that is good. It has tested my program with mixed results I must admit. But the AA idea has survived because it is based on tried and true experience. What the big book says is as true today as when I read it and when it was written. I am gratified that many newcomers are reading this thread and taking away positive feedback from it. Like one of them said and this applies to me, 'Take what you can use and leave the rest.'

solotraveler

I haven't yet read this entire thread - It's really long and my eyes are really tired.

From what I gathered, the original subject has to do with

Alcoholism – Disease, Illness or Sickness?

If I've missed the point, let me go back and re-read the entire thread after a good nights sleep.

What is the opinion here about Alcoholism being something you are born with? My dad was one, my mom drank enough, but not as much as my dad. Both probably wouldn't admit it even if they were. I can't remember my older brother ever drinking as much as a beer.

All I can say is I am one. At the very least I have a problem with it. And I have excessive behavior in everything I do - good and bad. I'm of the opinion it's an inherited disease.

Now, let me put on my body armor, before I hit the submit button....ok I'm ready.

God Bless,

Sit Tight

Chy

I'd like to take a moment and welcome you here at SoberRecovery. Work on the site and the myriad other tasks that I have doesn't always let me greet each new member here. But welcome, welcome, welcome!

I wanted to comment on what you mentioned as far as newcomers reading the many different ideas on recovery, as well as the occasional argument here.

I am an alcoholic. I am sober. I am human. That last one is the key to this type of site. Although many of us have achieved long-term sobriety using many of the different disciplines available - AA, RR, AVRT, SMART, etc., I will occasionally write something that someone else may disagree with. Of course that wasn't my intent, but each of us comes from a different walk in life and our experience, strength and hope may be different. In part, this is what has helped me stay sober. I take what I can use and leave the rest behind.

Human nature being what it is, there will always be those that disagree and some with a great passion. This really is okay. I'd bet that if those that tangled here ever met in person, they might actually like one another. I don't take it personal. I do what works for me. I embrace what works for me. And I appreciate what has worked for others. Regardless of the differing opinions, many of us here share the same goal - sobriety.

With so many different personalities and with the anonymity that the internet provides, some people just run at the mouth. Some DO go out of their way to be controversial and contrary. Some people like drama in their lives; some are know-it-alls and some are preachers - others are absolutely wonderful - from my perspective. But who am I to say? it's all part of the journey.

As a newcomer, try not to feel as if your recovery is threatened by those that disagree here. YOU will embrace recovery as it works for you and if you can't stay sober after reading some of the stuff that gets thrown around here then perhaps an on-line community isn't right for you just now. This would apply to anyone.

It can be tough as a newcomer wondering what to believe, who's opinion to trust, what am I getting into? If THIS is what recovery is about, why would I want it? Well, because recovery has taught me that there are a lot of sober drunks that I just can't tolerate and I stay away from them People are people and this is just how life goes at times. I'd love to live in a world with peace and harmony, but Utopia doesn't exist. I drank and drank hoping to find it, but it just ain't there. I'll tell you this - my life is so much better without a bottle. Perhaps this is my Utopia. The real world, not one clouded by booze.

Please keep coming back and please keep going to meetings. I truly welcome you here and encourage the journey that you have set out on. I pray that you are finding that recovery isn't just about putting the bottle down, but a whole new way of life and how we deal with life in general.

I'm okay, you're okay. We're in the right place. One more thing - if the AA way is what you prefer, the AA forum is more in tune with the AA method of recovery without other recovery methods interferring. We don't allow non-AA discussion in that forum. Alcoholism and General are wide open.

Keep coming back!!!

screen3

When I first started posting here, I did so in an over-zealous and self-righteous way - wanting to convert people to my way of thinking (RR as opposed to AA). Through this process, I have learned the following:

It does not matter very much whether abusing alcohol is officially classified as a disease or not. While I prefer to think that it is not a disease, there is definitely something askew, whatever it is, with a person who chooses to poison themself on a daily basis and centers their life around obtaining their particular substance knowing the damage it does to them. My major qualm with the disease concept is that in thinking you have a disease, it gives you an excuse TO relapse and an excuse FOR relapsing, saying you couldn't help it because you have a disease. I may be wrong in thinking that.

Some people prefer being involved with a group of people and following certain steps to stay sober. Others prefer to go it alone. Either way could work for some people and only one way works for others. Neither way is absolutely right or wrong.

People do not respond well to criticism - being told they are wrong and I am right. Neither do I.

Whatever your method of staying sober, be thankful for it and keep it up. God knows it's a hell of a lot better than being a drunken wretch. Best to all.

Screen3/Clearscreen

TimOFromChicago

Hi Screen and everyone else. My view of alcoholism as a disease is what gave me the hope that I could beat it (arrest it). It further motivates me NOT to relapse due to the fact that I consider it a deadly disease and will take the actions needed to keep it in check. If I were dying of cancer I would seek out all the treatment that I could and follow the advice of those that seem to be in the know. When I didn't view my drinking as a disease (which was the case until last year), mind over matter or will power didn't work because no matter how many times I would start out the day with, "I'm not going to drink" I would end the day with, "F*&^ it, I'm having a couple". When I learned of the concept of viewing this as a disease it made perfect sense to me and that's what I've used. Now before we all get our hackles up, I'm not defending my views or debasing screen's or anyone else's. I'm simply sharing what has worked for me. The bottom line is that we are all in this together and I hope ALL of us stay sober and find what we are looking for in life no matter which path we take.

Tim

P.S. Was that too preachy? I'm trying not to be so preachy... Something I need to work on...

SobrietyFirst

Love your post...and the question at the end. Reminds me of one of my concerns from time to time as well

No worries, as the conclusion I have reached about sharing is simply that if I am sharing from my experience, then I am simply sharing from my experience. Who it helps and how it helps them is out of my hands.

For myself, when I step into the mode of "I know something you don't. This is THE way it is," or I get attached to being right, then I am getting preachy and stepping on toes. I have been there, both in my life AND when I first started posting to this board, and perhaps I'll go there again. Who knows :-)

In any event, I sensed no preachiness in your posts, but rather, a genuine concern for being helpful.

Blessings

Chy

As usual you all have enlightened me once again. I suppose that I was being a bit sensitive to the issue of "contorversial discussion " the other day without realizing it was theraputic for some. So I apoligize for coming across as "wimpy".

I learn, heal and am begining to see what life has to offer as the fog slowly lifts. Thanks to this board and the fellowship of AA. I just wish I could learn to be a bit more patient in my recovery as I know my alcholism (have not yet decided to call it a disease/allergy etc.) is VERY patient.

You all be good and again there will never be enough thanks I could offer all of you!

Sit Tight

Chy

You really have nothing to apologize for. It has been my experience that nearly every newcomers is over-sensitive in certain areas. We found oursleves as newcomers in a totally new environment and seldom knew up from down, left from right - we were ducks out of water. EVERYTHING buckled our shoes!

I've not thought of you as whimpy at all. The fact that you keep comng back would disprove that thought. You want sobriety at any price - including putting up with the passion of others. That's awesome!!!

Stephanie

Now this is what recovery is all about for me. I am so happy we have changed our tone in this thread. Alcoholics working together connected by a common bond, helping eachother stay sober by sharing with eachother and learning from eachother's experience. It's in that I find peace of mind and hope. Thank-you Screen for your honesty. I'm glad you're here with us and feel comfortable enough to share.

SobrietyFirst

As it turns out, the meeting I came from when I read your note was about that very subject


Step 4 and 10 I see here. I, too, have found it helpful to put pen to paper. Sometimes, that's the only way I really see things clearly...actually most of the time.

Very much appreciate your note.

Blessings

Don S

A study I saw somewhere concluded that a boy whose father and grandfather drank heavily was many times more likely to drink heavily himself than a boy whose parents/grandparents didn't. But children of abstinent parents are also more likely to drink heavily than children of parents who drink moderately.

This makes sense if you view it as a compulsive, destructive behavior. You might be more likely to model the behavior--or to rebel by adopting the forbidden behavior--if your parents have an unusual focus on alcohol (pro or con). If your parents drink moderately and it's not a big part of their lives it's less likely to become a big part of yours.

Epidemiological studies may show that alcohol abuse seems to run in families, but that doesn't mean that it is inherited--or that it is learned behavior. It could be either or both. They just show a statistical link, and your behavior is not caused by statistics.
IMHO.
Don S

The Jay Walker

I saw this article that I thought was interesting, thought I would share it here.

http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v98.n374.a04.html