Mercedes1

I am 6months sober...never thought I could do this..God and the program have been awesome... I wanted to get some feedback on something that happened Tues of this week. I thought when I put down the drink I'd never have that awful feeling of "oh my gosh, what did I just do..., embarrassment.."..You know the feeling..usually it has been because you drank or were doing something wrong...end result you made an &*^ of yourself in some fashion. But again, the net of it was something you did or "were" wrong. Wrong state in other words.

I was at an anniversary party for a gal I met in AA ..she has 17yrs. It was kinda boring in the beginning but a hour later it picked up where we were all enjoying eachother's fellowship and laughing, etc. I was very greatful to have such wonderful friends..even reflected how different my life was before AA. NEVER thought Id be sitting in a tiny, super hot (no air conditioning) apt in Cedar Knolls, NJ on a holiday evening shooting the breeze...with no drink...!

Well, the party started to break up..but we were all sharing about the gal who was celebrating what we liked most of her...something came up on her disposition..she never changes...which is even more amazing since she had such a wild past...hanging with acid rock and rollers, etc. I commented that is why I love her so much that even with that past...to me, she is a true example of "positive and REAL change"....the fact she lives "in the light" (so to speak) now. IOW, it is a real shocker for those that know her..or been around her to hear of her past. She doesn't live that at all anymore..so you don't see it.

I commented that people that you can see the black and white of their lives are not people IMHO are truly living in the solution. You can't be both. That doesnt mean that we don't have the dark side,,we just choose to not let that over power us.

Well, this guy that was at the party...questioned that...he said something about well I disagree..you have to have both to be real..yada yada. Another girl chimed in..and it became a discussion on religion. Fast fwrd and everyone else cleared the room and us 3, (me, the guy and this other woman who was highly religious) were in this debate. End result is people thought we were fighting. Every time I tried to pull the conversation back ...it just became real emotional. He (the guy) kept coming back asking questions like..who created God..and where did evil come from..questions for those of us with faith..you cannot answer intellectually. The bottom line..all my new "friends" came back in and looked at me with total shock. And yet, I was never yelling..or even fighting .I was simply trying to answer this dude's questions. In hindsight I realize it was a losing battle for he was looking for an intellectual description of God. The other gal...was worse than me..she was too confrontational..but all of us..really just got passionately in a discussion that turned alittle argumentative.

So, why this thread? Well, I left the party..hugged the guy...told him I get concerns..sorry for the emotional "debate" it turned to be..apologized to scaring the others with our loud voices..and left. Anyway, I thught about apologzing but really had mixed emotions the next day. What did i do wrong? anyway,,,,I felt i was honest,,I didn't go to this party to brawl..HE (the guy) asked the questions...I kinda resented all my friends leaving and not helping....not at any time did anyone tell us to stop....so...why should I go back and apologize. That, and the fact I really did not "need" this.

Anyway...the result is I feel very squirrly, very upset...as if I did something wrong. So I guess we can get ourselveds into prediciments w./out planning on it. I can learn what not to say now..stopping conv's around this topic..but I am not one to back down on tyring to help which was my intent.

So why did I feel so bad. a day or so later I called the host (the anniv girl) and apologized but to be honest not sure why i was apologizing. We are peoplee..the conv took off..it was more than me. But then why did I feel so depresses, so beaten.

I guess I thought to feel like this you purposely need to do something wrong. I resented having to go back and re-apologize. Not even sure I needed too as I did say I was sorry for the loudness (btw, that was not just me..that was all 3 of us not yelling so to speak but loud enought to talk over eachother trying to make our points)...it scared a few people to hear our voices.

But..I did apologize and some how feel it is overkilll...kinda like the whole conv.

Anyway..what can I learn from this..is there a lesson other than I screwed up? I was trying to do everything right..to even be there and not isolating.

laurie6781

Naaaaaaaa you didn't screw up. One thing I learned years ago when still drinking, two subjects that are taboo. Religion and Politics.

Learned it sober real quick too, conversation heads to one of those two topics, I politely say "Nope, not going there" and walk away.

You did absolutely nothing wrong. You will learn in recovery as you continue to grow and change, hopefully lol, how to be passionate about a topic and not raise your voice, it takes lots and lots of practice.

Actually sounds to me you did good for you. You got out, didn't isolate, enjoyed yourself for the most part, etc.

One other little tidbit I have learned, that as long as I am being the "best" me I can be (even when that particular 'me' may not be as good as the one the day before) than what other people think of me IS NONE OF MY BUSINESS. I cannot live my life based on how or what other people think. My sponsor taught me how to develope my 'own moral code' and then to live that code.

Please do not feel bad, sounds to me like you handled yourself very well!!!!!

Love and hugs,

SaTiT

"Rocketed to the 4th into the spirit of the sunlight."
I can't remember exactly what page it's in the BB.
It says that about how recoverying alki haning out
together and having a good time...not chaos.

mmm..it dose say "a god to my understanding", in step #3.
BW inserted that into step#3 becuase Abby suggested
to BW about the steps. BW had a heck of a time understanding
god or religion...so Abby just made a simple suggestion.
That's how and why AA is a program of suggestions.

I don't really understand my HP fully and my perception
of what god is changes as I change or grow. I came to
belive or hope there's a loving god..that's about all can
say...so i wouldn't expect anyone to understand something
i don't fully understand.

And there's that love, patient and tolerance.
Sometimes I'll just sit and stair at my shoes in meetings.
At first, it seem like i wasn't getting anything out of those
meetings. Not true...I was getting to practice love patient
and tolernce..I guess that's how my HP works in my life
sometimes. I get to a piont in my recovery of feeling okay
living under my own skin..so I don't like to be around others
much...but that's not too good..becuase now there's no balance
or I became to sentitive to humans. Through AA i've learned
that I don't have to like or agree with everyone..but it's okay..
why ???...because outside the rooms of AA and in my life
I not going to always to like or agree with everyone.
The tolerance i gain from sitting and stairing at my shoes
and trying to hear the message.

So whatever you are going through or went through is a lessen
you've gain already or you're going through a learning curve
of how to handle youself.

True to be spiritually mean that I'm pretty easy going,
but also at the sametime being spiritaul dosn't mean
being spineless.

For me..whatever happens, happens...it is what it is.
So there's not really a resenment building up inside of me.
There's no judgement like i use to have.
True i might not like what happens on the surface, but
there's always somthing for me to learn if I look beyound
the surface..it's like i have a sixth sence going or I'm more
awear...

In other words...I've learned to live life on life's terms
without fighting it..i surrender everything as I did with
alcohol. I've learned to trust on my HP.
Sometimes i feel like my HP droped me on my head..lol
but oh well...don't need to drink over it.
if I build on that attitude...no need for me to get angery either.lol

Mercedes1

Wow, thanks guys. I always know I can come here and dump crap like I did above and get a blessing from it. Truly a gift.
Very well said..both of you...it has helped me. Thanks.

Laurie...AWESOME:

..."One other little tidbit I have learned, that as long as I am being the "best" me I can be (even when that particular 'me' may not be as good as the one the day before) than what other people think of me IS NONE OF MY BUSINESS...."

satIT: THERE IS ALOT OF WISDOM IN THIS....."So whatever you are going through or went through is a lessen
you've gain already or you're going through a learning curve
of how to handle youself..."


thanks again

CarolD

Always good to see you here!

Well Done on your sober time Mercedes

Blessings

parentrecovers

6 months is great, mercedes! k

Nuudawn

Congrats on enduring your first couple seasons of sobriety! We have about the same amount of sober time. What I'm learning here in my "sobriety infancy" is that "relating" with others can be hard work and emotions can simply run high. As Laurie noted, yep religion is or can be a very "emotional" subject. And surprise, surprise...that can get real awkward, maybe "especially" for those in "recovery".

My first few month of sobriety were all about "getting sober". It's only in the last few couple months where some real work is starting to take place for me...or maybe I'm just identifying that it is indeed work to rebuild or perhaps build your new way of living and coping and emoting and relating. It's foreign territory.

I had a very confusing conversation with a dear friend of mine just this morning ....we both seemed angry and snapped at each other...no sure why. That'll take some figuring cuz I suspect there are some layers there. Actually, I KNOW there are.

Shaneo20

Conversations about things in general can be pretty argumentative, especially about religion. I personally don't shy away from such conversations but I do try to prevent coming across as dogmatic. More than once I have been confronted by a group of people who don't believe in God and they try and ridicule my "mythical" concept of a higher power. This is analogous to the believer forcefully evangelizing to people who aren't interested in knowing about God. Either way someone is trying to convince other people that their fundamental beliefs are faulty.

If this was done to ensure that the non-believer would be saved or alternatively that the believer stop wasting their time and concentrate on other things, than it might have some merit. This doesn't occur 99% of the time. Instead people try and defend their viewpoint from being attacked or try and attack others to enhance their own feeling of self importance. At times I've become uncomfortable with these conversations but I've always found that if I just talk calmly and explain that I feel that God is a part of my life then so be it. There is no possible way to prove that He exists. If they think I'm irrational there is nothing I can do.

One thing I have found to be really helpful in such conversations is to be absolutely quiet when others are talking and wait until they are finished and pause and think about what they say instead of interrupting (not saying you did this), they will have no choice but to stop and listen to what you have to say and you will be better prepared to express your viewpoint. If they cut you off, calmly point out that you let them finish and you'd like the same courtesy. This has never failed for me personally. It is so easy for discussions that center around a persons fundamental belief system to become heated (understandably) such as religion, politics and homosexuality, or to a lesser extent, sporting events or make of car. But I've found if you don't become too emotional about things and try the tip mentioned above, not only can a heated discussion be prevented but an already heated discussion can be diffused without anyone storming off disgruntled and bearing a grudge. Also, whatever point of view you are trying to convey will carry far, far more weight when presented in a logical manner which I think is only possible when calm.

Just my 2 cents,
Shane.

BP44

I hear people say....do I want to be right or do I want to be happy. Well, I'm an egomaniac with an inferiority complex...I want to be both. And most times it just isn't possible. For example, yesterday I woke up and did my morning meditation and prayers. I did not plan on having a bad day, but I quickly got agitated at work. Things were not going as I had planned. As I saw it, I had justification to be agitated. Afterall, I had asked two weeks ago for help on Fridays. It didn't matter that help wasn't available. In my alcoholic mind, I felt like help should have been made available. So, I was angry. My little ego was being hurt. So, I called my sponsor and had a chat. He told me acceptance was the key. And that of course, was NOT what I wanted to hear. He went on to tell me that I was being self centered and self absorbed and that I could sit in my high chair or I could start the day over again. Well, of course, being a good alcoholic, I decided to stir the crap....all day long. I stepped in it and tracked it all over the place until by the end of the day I was exhausted. I dug a hole until I was ready to put down the shovel. It took last night's meeting to do that. I have no idea what the discussion was because people were going in an out of the meeting....which agitated me. My sponsor leaned over to me and said....acceptance. I laughed out loud. And I realized that my alcoholic thinking and behavior yesterday was no different than a binge. I took it to the point were I couldn't put anymore effort into it. And I couldn't stop it. I need a power greater than me to change my thinking and my behavior. And it will not change over night. Here's the thing....I'll do it again, but I have faith that if I keep coming,, and talking to my sponsor and other alcoholics....maybe I won't sit in and stir the crap as long. I'll get more tools in the toolbox and learn which ones work for each situation. I spent some time reading pages 60-61 and 449 in the BB last night. Just beacuse I quit drinking doesn't mean I'm going to quit acting and thinking like an alcoholic immediately. It takes work.

Peter

There is nothing wrong with an intelligent debate , however there is a time and place for it, Having a loud discussion about religion at somebodys anniversary celebration may not have been the most appropriate place.

Usually if I feel bad after a rousing discussion of that sort it is because I allow my self will and ego to get the better of me. Being "right" and getting the "last word" becomes more important than discussing the pros and cons of the issue itself.

I still enjoy a good debate every now and then but I have to remember to keep my ego in check. I also have to remember that when it comes to topics such as "religion" and "politics" there is never usually a winner.

SaTiT

oh yes..love chapter 16 " accpetence is the anwer" in the 4th edition
Chapter 17 " Doctor, Alcoholic, Addict" in the 3rd edtion.
It's the same chapter or story.
There's so many answers in there for me. it covers alot of territory.

It pretty much say...if I think I'm more than...then I'm playing god.
If i think I'm less than...I'm still playing god.
We're merly players in a play and god is the conductor....but
I'm a perfectionist and I like to see it my way or try to make it trun
out my way....something like that .lol

"nothing absolutely nothing happens by mistake in gos's world"

Focus on the salutions and it grows and grows.
Focus on the problems and it grows and gorws.
I have a mind of midas that truns everything into gold.

"how important is it? "

I had to put her in step #1 (wife)...in my case..my GF.

last but not least.
The dog havn't pee on me since I join AA and either have I

Zanthos

Just because you "feel" you screwed up, doesn't mean you did. And just because you felt as if you should apologize doesn't mean you should have.

With less than 3 years of sobriety under my belt, I'm aware of how much learning and growing I have ahead of me as far as learning to be myself with others. I'm still petrified that other people won't like me, particularly if I express myself strongly or reveal any of the substantial negativity I still carry around. I'm always imagining that others have all these ideas or opinions about me when the truth is I'm the only one thinking about how others think about me.

That "squirreliness" you mention, in my opinion, just means you're out there among others, without alcohol, in a new and more vulnerable way. At 6 months, everything is still new. At least it was for me. It's still still new (and if I continue to learn and grow and change, it will always be still new). So feelings of awkwardness are natural.

If it was me, I might talk to some of the people who were at the party and ask if I had made them uncomfortable or had been acting inappropriate in any way. But my guess is that you just really want others to like you and are afraid you've given some cause not to. And my further guess is you didn't. That all is well.

Mercedes1

Zanthos..thank you for getting right to the heart of "me". Yes, I was so worried what they thought of me. After I called the hostess 2 days later and reapologized which I mentioned this above in my initial note. I cont'd to spiral downwards. I actually avoided meetings for a week..as although she accepted, I still had not accepted a) that I needed to apologize; and b) that she really accepted my apology ...apology is useless w/out it being rec'd..right? ...I mean, what is she to say...now?

Anyway, as an update, i finally went to a meeting yesterday..saw one of the other gals at that party...she was kinda cold..so I was already planning to never come to these meetings again...thinking in my head I;d have to go out of my way now to go to meetings farther from my house..even though I loved these people and not because of them, but now I couldn't get past this gals disappointment that I "thought" was in her actions.

BUT, I shared at end of meeting, about being in a place you didn't plan on, didn't provoke by doing anything wrong..ie. drink or hurt someone and yet still find yourself in a position of shame.

Well, as I was leaving..guess who came to my side...this girl. I burst out crying..all this pent up emotion over that night last Tues. She told me that she never had thought any more of it...anyway. Its done.

Then today, I get an email from the guy..I guess she went back and told him how upset I was...and he sent me the nicest email.

So, it is a learning experience..I agree. I mean I told myself it was over that night..andI tried to make it over..and couldnt'. So I guess you are right.....some times "time takes time" even in the RIGHT things to do.... things you know to do but simply can't until you get through them. I could have given this advice to anyone other than me and it not be an issue.. but for some reason, couldn't get past it for myself...in terms of shame.

... I have learned how what not to say..and to Shane's point above, how right...calmness is where it is at, respect for others opinions. However we all tried doing that..we just lost focus in our passion. All of us. Try better next time...

Anyway, thanks to all of you..you truly did help me!!!

PS. I can see me and this guy becoming really better friends because of this..obviously if he wasn't forgiving it would not happen..but interesting how things work out in pain.

Zanthos

Mercedes, I'm so glad that the fears you were having were dispelled by being able to talk to the other people involved. It doesn't surprise me that it was a big deal only to you. At the same time, I know exactly what you felt like.

It's amazing how easy it can be to take our worst fears about rejection and loneliness, and really blow them up, and become panicked about what exists almost entirely in just our imagination.

For me, this kind of thing is what I have to recognize as "my disease talking". Any powerfully negative emotions involving fear and self-hatred fall into that category. And I know what it is like to have to claw back from a place of panic and despair, and find something, anything, to hang onto to help me feel that I'm OK. (For some reason, Step Three comes to mind! )

I'm so glad you shared about what you were feeling in the meeting. That's really the best possible thing you could have done. And it took a LOT of courage! I hope I have that courage the next time I need it!