PurpleReign

Ted,
I'm confused, please help me out.

Suppose you found the "answer" to your question on how you could help your brother stop...

How then, do you convey this "answer" to your brother? How do you *make* him stop drinking?

How can I *make* you go to Al-anon, knowing that if you give it a chance with an open mind, it will help you to recover?

Peace,
PR

GrouchoTheCat

Thanks for the reality check Music.

I think I'll stop this endless circular discussion.

My home group meets tonight. I'll be there and talk to some drunks about what is going on TODAY, (in reality land).

G

Tazman53

Ted that is correct, but there is only one person who can do this in an alcoholics case, and that is the alcoholic them selfs. Being an alcoholic I can tell you that no matter what others said or did, the idea and reason to change those factors had to be mine and mine alone.

Ted if you really want to help your brother do not give him any help of any sort, no food, no shelter, no money, no car payments..... NOTHING!!!! Let him hit his bottom, the longer any one helps him in any way with anything except dropping him off at detox the more damge he is going to do to his liver and other organs.

Ted if you want to help your self go to Alanon and learn from others how they have dealt with where you are at now.

CarolD

Pulllseee
Ted is giving HIS opinions on a book he
has not read
on a disease he does not have
and on a solution he has not experienced.

I do hope the shares here are benefitting
Ted and others cause they are becoming
redundent to this member...

Tazman53

Music you are right, this is whipping a dead horse.

miss communicat

amen!

tedseeker

Thanks to everyone here for sharing your experiences and ideas, and challenging me to think differently. In the end, I think most of us are saying the same thing only in different ways.

I had a long post prepared which replied to several people, but the server went down, so I'll keep this short, and leave you with these last thoughts, which I think reflect the views of most here:

I believe that we all do whatever it is we want (some prefer the word "have", but that takes away choice) to do given the choices we think are before us, guided by our most important values at that given moment. Or, if you prefer, we all avoid doing whatever it is we don't want to do and instead will sometimes do the same thing over and over and over again, even if it is self-destructive in the long run. This is human nature. This is alcoholism.

In some ways it isn't mysterious at all-it is mundane. Simple human nature--we respond to our feelings, values and beliefs based on many factors--some physical, some environmental. In other ways it seems very mysterious--we don't know why we do what we do sometimes--especially when our values are in conflict, and we often don't understand why others do what they do because we aren't in their shoes--we don't know HOW they feel, how strong their values and beliefs might be in response to things, including alcohol, or other things that originally had nothing to do with alcohol, but can greatly influence their choice to use or not use.

But just because we don't always understand the heart and soul of another person doesn't mean they are fundamentally non-human, only under the spell of alcoholism with no hope for a future, and not guided by SOME group of feelings, values and beliefs, or as Paulm pointed out--the LACK thereof. And, not able to harness their values and beliefs to change when their bottom is hit.

Nor does it mean that they are beyond external influences and the compassion and help of another person who cares. Sometimes others CAN influence the values and beliefs of a nother. Other times, a person is not going to be receptive no matter what others do.

It's not a mystery how this works in general. What is a mystery is how it is going to pan out for any given person. Thanks to everyone here who has helped me see all of this more clearly through our discussions.

I began this thread with saying that the choice to quit is VERY difficult, but is still a choice. I don't KNOW that to be the case because some people do not choose to quit and will die from it. However, many here have confirmed that they chose to quit for whatever reason--even if it was to live one more day, or to let go of pride that says they need not quit because they can control something so powerful, or both.

I think we are really saying the same things except that I see no reason to couch this as some mysterious disease over which no one has any control, and prefer to acknowledge that while the struggle with alcohol can be profound, it is still governed by many factors which affect our personal interpretations of what we want at any given moment vs the alternatives we see before us.

If you wish to discuss this any more, please feel free to send me a pm.

take care everybody,

ted

Music

Thanks ted, but uhhhhhh NO! Have a nice day.

tedseeker

Gmoney

On 6/7/07 , I wrote:

May this thread rest in peace.

CarolD

Let's all move on
Thanks Everyone!