Highlander99

"A disease is an abnormal condition of an organism that impairs function." It goes on to say "Classifying a condition as a disease is a social act of valuation, and may change the social status of the person with the condition." For me this hits the nail on the head, an alcholic gets to rationalize every thing they do because they have a "disease". If you get VD you can't rationalize it by saying its a disease and it is legitamitly a disease if you go by the afore mentioned definition. So instead of being a selfish and thoughtless drug abuser, they have a "disease" and everyone should feel sorry for them because "its not there fault" and they have "no control over their "disease". I appreciate what AA does but I think this train of thought is a load of crap. My wife has substituted her alcohol with AA meetings. She goes to 1 to 3 meetings a day and before she left I hardly ever saw her. Alcoholisim is a symptoms of other issues mostly low self esteem and an inability to think rationaly. If you ever go to an AA meeting you will find people outside smoking which is just another addiction. I touched on the fact that alcoholics are very selfish, its all about them. When she first quit all I heard was how it was so unfair that she could not drink and why everyone else was able to have fun and she wasn't. When I asked why she drank, she told me it made her feel happy. It made me miserable, worried and if we were not home, embarrassed. She got to do what ever she wanted and drink until it was all gone but I had to make sure she got to bed ok and/or got home in one piece. If she was out and I was home I would call to check and make sure she was ok. if she did not answer the phone I would get worried and keep calling until she answered or called me back. I got in trouble for that because I did not trust her which to a point was true but I was really worried about her. Well I guess the best part about my situation is that I won't have to worry any more.

Peter

[QUOTE=Rumi;1326531]Again some of the same individuals use that argument to stay in the "victim" role which I believe destroys any chances of reaching a healthy state of existence./QUOTE]

I dunno' Rumi. I'm pretty healthy

paulmh

Welcome "my name here" - well done on a decade sober!

I'll be thinking of you come Monday - and wishing you well. Thanks for your post.

Rumi

"I dunno' Rumi. I'm pretty healthy "

Great, then you have not chosen to stay in the "victim" role. The key word in the statement I made is "some" and not everyone or all.

I hope those people take the route you took regardless of how they define the "problem" but unfortunately many don't. It is not to say that those who don't believe it is a disease are all succeeding in their struggles but I think the likelihood of success increases if you don't blame an external factor for your prior state of being.

parentrecovers

nice to meet you, mynamehere! blessings, k

Boater62

I'm no doctor or scientist, but for me it's totally unhelpful for me to think of my drinking as a disease. If I did, it would give an additional reason to rationalize drinking because "I'm sick and can't help myself." I think usually think of diseases as conditions that can only be cured or treated by doctors with drugs and therapies, which would eailly allow my mind to to absolve myself of personal responsibility. No doubt like many of you, my mind is quite clever in thinking up reasons to drink.

But I suppose if you look on your condition as a disease, and can thoroughly convince yourself that the ONLY cure and treatment is for you to stay completely abstinute or you'll die, then I can see how it may help you. As the old saying goes, whatever works.

Personally, I do think it's important for me to recognize that there is something unusual about me, genetic, mental or whatever, that makes me want want to drink to excess. Otherwise I revert to the thinking that I can drink in moderation like most other people.

JR

Tazman53

Highlander I know you are not in AA by your post, it leads me to think that you feel AA leads an alcoholic to beleive they can lay the blame for thier problems and actions at the feet of their disease. That is the furthest thing from the truth about AA that I have seen in quite a while.

In AA when working the steps one accepts full responsibility for every action they have taken in thier life! They do not use their disease as any sort of excuse!

No where in the book Alcoholics Anonymous will you find one statement that in any way says an alcoholic has the right to blame his disease for his actions.

Highlander I highly reccommend you take at least a few minutes to learn the basics of AA is before you speak about it as though you know some thing about it, because your post demonstrates almost a 100% total lack of knowledge on AA.

The only thing you got right about AA in your post is AA does beleive alcoholism is a disease, (Just like unbiased scientist who know a whole lot more then you or I know) other then that one thing, every thing else you said was dead wrong.

Well said rumi, in AA even though we agree with the scientific community that it is a disease, we do not use that fact as an excuse for our personal actions, we are taught that we are totally responsible for all of our actions and accountable for them.

Most of the alcoholics I know that beleive it is a disease and blame all thier problems on the disease are still drinking and sitting on thier pity pot, not in the rooms of AA.

parentrecovers

another newcomer! nice to meet you, boater - keep sharing, k

NYCGirl

Studies show that some people's livers process alcohol differently than others. This is a contributing factor to becoming an alcoholic, since it makes us like it more and for longer.... but does that make it a disease... or an infatuation...

If it is a disease than we should be researching a cure not just a way to "take one day a time".

People who have this processing issue have to work harder at not indulging in the substance. This is very unfair since those that don't do not care if they drink while those that do mourn for alcohol.... where is the justice...

If it is a disease until there is a cure we need to overcome our urges.... and if it is not a disease we need to overcome our urges....

....so in the end I leave with this question....
...............if a person who's liver process alcohol the "alcoholic" way never takes a drink are they still an alcoholic?

CarolD

Welcome to our newer members!




Blessings to you and P healing prayers

paulmh

Before I went to AA I was very much of the opinion that saying that alcoholism was a disease was a cop-out. When I went into AA what was I taught? That my condition was not one I could fix by willpower alone. That I was not a "failure" because I hadn't managed to retrain myself to drink normally. That my alcoholism was beyond my control.

So when I thought that alcoholism wasn't a disease I carried on drinking. And when I accepted that alcoholism was a disease I stopped. And that was a few years ago. So if you all don't mind, I'll carry on believing that it's a disease. I'd rather be wrong and sober!

SaTiT

Living well is the best revenage.
Justice ?....lets see...mmm I didn't get up with a hang over this morning.
Alki or not..alcohol is a depressent..and I ain't a depressed jello today.lol
I have living tools today that most normies are clueless to.
I belive, I lived and enjoy life than most people well have.
Just in the first year of my soberity..I lived more I than ever had
before that piont.

...the longer one stays sober, the more one notice...there's
not too many normies or un dysfuntional people around.
I just think they're prospect for future AA members.lol
Hell... I passed for a normie while I was drinking.
Give my a break..It just looked bad at the end.
Decade ago, when i got sober...some of you where social normal drinkers to me.lol

Everybody has a living problem..some hide it better than others
Some deal with it..some don't.
My so call normies friends...everyone of them has sometype of addiction
or problems..over eating, over gambling, over working, over spending,
over sex, over achiving. Seriousely...they're stressed and wondering wtf ???

There has to be something..when they ask me why the hell
I have a big ass smile on my face every morning.lol

Mercedes1

Its a disease of the mind and spirit. And to Steve's point, anything that controls the mind and spirit..or I should say we LET control..controls our body eventually and/or our body reacts. For example, pain rellievers don't take the physical pain away by effecting the physical source of the problem (doesn't heal you at all),,it just sends messages to your brain blocking signals that make you hurt? wallla...you get a physical result yet it has nothing to do with your "physical" body.

the problem with some people's view of the disease model is they use that as an excuse as if they had cancer and therefore they are "special". the only thing special about alchoholism is that for whatever reason you drink to manage your life. As with anything else in that proportion, everntually you will get into trouble. God is the only one that should manage you (I like the pymramid model wiht God at the top of my life's manageability). Take that out of sorts..you try to control through substances and/or take the experiences away from God...feeling the pain.. you will just delay the issue and your mind and SPIRIT become void.

For me, any "disease" in the sense of terminal is your mind once messed with enough is hard to come back (the pickle returning to be a cucumber). dulling it with chemicals is terminial to your spiritual health and has phyiscal results.

Highlander99

I am not in AA or an A and I do not consider my self to be any kind of expert on the subject but I have lived with an A for almost 5 years. She was and is a very selfish person and my point is that any kind of addiction is a selfish act because it all about their needs and to heck with every one around them. They do us the disease thing as a cop out and I think it is totally unfair. I am sick I have no will to stop my drinking, pleaseeee. Its just another way of rationalizing bad and unaccetable behaviour. I have nothing against AA and I think it is a good organization but I think the disease bit is an insult to people who have legitimate diseases and not and are not use the word as an excuse. My wife was in AA for 2 months and she left me so I am a little angry right now, that at AA but at my wife because she says that AA has taught her that it is not her fault and all she can do is apologize for past actions, and if people can't deal with that then to bad. I also like to mention she is on step 5 and professionals who I have talked to say that she is moving way to fast. She has told me that others have gone through all 12 steps in a month!

NYCGirl

Boy SaTIT, your glass is half empty.....

....too much negativity for me!

Pilgrim

OOO can I join in please? At least it keeps me from drinking! This will be all over the place because that is how my brain is working at the moment.

International Health authorities classify addiction as a mental illness. So there we go - we are all teapots.

I am addicted. I am around humans all day. Some are addicted some are not. I know now that non addicts don't care about the next drink. I can't imagine how that must be but I would sure like to know. Different planets. We both think the other group is weird.

And yes - I get "addicted" to anything else going. Gambling, smoking, computer games, SR, work, drama....anything that helps me avoid facing my past hurts.

The reason? I have a mental illness called addiction. But at least I am not evil. If I thought I was evil I would be drinking right now or probably dead. BUT I am not evil and I have only just learnt this and because of that, I am starting to like myself enough to not want to drink or gamble or smoke or work too hard or spend all day playing computer games. There's where the real illness in my head and body comes into play. I can stop gambling easily. It is not a good investment. I can stop playing computer games because I am happier and I want to live my life. Smoking is harder but when I was pregant, no problem. Drama? No thanks. Work? A necessary part of life but not the whole of life. I use those activities to cover feelings but I am not addicted to them. I can let them go as I get my head sorted out. Not so with alcohol. Bummer.

This is a site full of people who are struggling to recover. Most are facing up to their biggest challenge of their lives. With the demise of their ability to use alcohol to cover their problems comes a terrible necessity to face those problems. The problems can be so severe that they have caused mental health illnesses, including addiction.

I believe I was born with a potential to become an alcoholic. If alcohol didn't exist, I wouldn't be one. Just a potential one. The fact that it numbed my mental problems I think is a side issue. If someone is using alcohol to numb their feelings but they are not an addict, when they seek help for their feelings, they will find stopping drinking easy if they chose to stop. O how much I would like to be one of those people.

Or maybe it is an input output issue. My son is autistic. In a darkened quiet room with no people asking him to be sociable, there are absolutely no symptoms. We are all on the autistic spectrum. A diagnosis can only be made using mental health guidelines relating to communication and behaviour criteria. There is no bloodtest or biopsy. It is complicated but when severe, very obvious.

I think problems with drinking are also on a spectrum. At one end are people who never wanted to drink at the other end are alcoholics. It is a bell curve so most humans are in the middle. At the alcoholic end, the effects are such that it is considered a mental illness. Like autistics, take away the alcohol from the alcoholic and the symptoms of alcoholism go away.

I might be wrong though because I am pretty confused usually.

GrouchoTheCat

For me,

I am physically addicted to alcohol. I know this because I had to go through painful withdrawal when I stopped.

Alcohol altered my thinking and my brain.

My brain wanted booze, my body wanted booze. For many years they got what they wanted while I (my soul?) died a slow death.

Yes, I believe it is a disease.

The big cache is this:

Now that I know I have a disease that is potentially harmful or even fatal to others and myself - If I reactivate it I must bear the full responsibility. In other words, if I pull the trigger I am responsible for the path of the bullet.

So I do the things I need to do so I never again get behind the wheel of a car drunk.

Ted

BP44

Highlander, I'm sorry you're having a rough time. Alanon is an excellent source of support for suffering families and spouses of alcoholics. It's amazing to me how focused people get on the disease/not disease issue. And the reality is most of it is anger based. All I can say is that contempt prior to investigation, I have found, usually halts my ability to grow and progress.

Rusty G

Tazman, its not what I put in my stomach that defiles me, It's what comes from my heart. "I" only had an addiction. I don't represent all Christians, I represent me, and what I've been through and how God cured me of my addiction by changing who I am. I wouldn't get too preoccupied with the form, rules and regulations of religion and lose out on the real spiritual meaning. I'm not speaking of you but I've noticed alot of people when they hear the word sin, their first thought is hell. And that's sad. Get sober however you want but be happy and at peace. When you grab that plow, if you're not going forward you're not getting any work done.


Highlander I feel compassion for you. I'm sorry for what you've been through. I'd consider it a blessing in disguise that she's gone myself. This was my addiction cycle:


1} Pain

2] Reaching out to my addictive agent alcohol ** Some people have others like drugs, food, sex, work, dependent relationships.}


3] Temporary anaesthesia


4} Negative consequences


5] Shame, guilt, low self-esteem, back to pain.


God removed all shame, guilt, my heart was weighed down with sin. . It felt like a 100 pound horse collar lifted off of me. I phyically felt it lifted. I didn't even know I was walking around with it until it was removed. I was then surrounded by Gods love and peace. That Holy Spirit stayed with me for three months healing me until I could walk on my own. That's what happen to me. I was an evil person. They don't send you to prison for the "citizen of the month award". But that's was me. However you get there good luck. And Happy Mothers Day to all the Mothers.

IO Storm

I picked up a drink..actually I shotgunned 4 beers in 20 minutes

after 8 years of abstinence..and had cravings immedately after

the glow wore off...another descent into hell. Physical cravings

and mental obsession..whoo...

The medical profession says that Alcoholism is a progressive and fatal disease.

The last time around for me was the worst....I could NOT stop.

Until I gave up and turned it over again to my Higher Power.

That last drunk was on 2/8/06......

Just my 2 cents.

Love,

IO