Forced treatment
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Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Fredericksburg, Va.
Posts: 9,730
TinLizzy hopefully your sister will remember those AA meetings when she wakes up and realizes she can not stop drinking even though she wants to. I have noticed that the court ordered folks for the most part fit into one of 2 groups:
1. Non-alcoholics who screwed up and are usually pretty quiet and courtious.
2. Alcoholics that have not figured out they have a problem yet and usually can be a bit disrespectful.
1. Non-alcoholics who screwed up and are usually pretty quiet and courtious.
2. Alcoholics that have not figured out they have a problem yet and usually can be a bit disrespectful.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: oh
Posts: 757
want if they willingly go for loved ones?
the therapist told me that ANY reason ah has for going to treatment is a good valid reason, no matter if it is just for me and no other reason cause i questioned her on this too.
of course, outpatient was not effective for my ah and i believe it is for the fact he went only because it is what i wanted him to do. now, he seems to forget most of what he learned there. sigh...
of course, outpatient was not effective for my ah and i believe it is for the fact he went only because it is what i wanted him to do. now, he seems to forget most of what he learned there. sigh...
cunning. baffling. powerful.
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: NY
Posts: 183
I think every addict/alcoholic has a breaking point where they say "enough is enough!" - whether they find it through an internal means (like Taz's story) or via some external catalyst that invites the need for real change (like Taz's story).
I know that my mother didn't give up 40+ years of addiction and alcoholism because she was: in danger of losing yet another job, actively stealing from and lying to her family, clearly seriously impaired 24/7/365, in poor health, or anything else you can think of.
My father spent years as her enabler, but towards the end was clearly completely lost in regards to what was wrong with his wife.
She went though 4 rehabs and relapsed each time. Each rehab stay was preceeded by some kind of drug/alcohol related crisis that made her say "This is really it!", but it never was.
Finally, it was the loss of her Driver's License that made her serious. She went back to rehab because "the stupid state took away her ONLY freedom and she was going to show them and get it back from them!" She wasn't interested in being sober, in loving her family, or any other "good" reason to go into rehab. It was a big dramatic thing and clearly the way her mind was working at the time was that she just wanted her license back so she could go back to sneaking around like she'd done before.
But for whatever reason, during rehab she decided to listen and has over a year and a half sober now. It became more than just getting her driver's license back when she realized she was getting her life back as well.
So, as selfish as her motivation was and as totally catalyzed by an outside action - for whatever reason, that rehab trip woke something up inside.
This isn't to say that that's going to work for everybody. A few weeks ago I drove a man to the hospital so he could check into a detox program. He had been living on the streets for over a year and clearly was beyond any kind of bottom I could ever imagine for myself. While I waited with him in the ER he started going through the DTs and asked me to go to the vet school to get some euthanasia solution and kill him quickly. When I said "no" he alternated between planning complex and bloody suicides and suggesting we just leave and he'd go back to killing himself slowly with alcohol. (He was probably the most articulate drunk I've ever talked to. He knew exactly what was going on, where it was leading, and even intoxicated could describe his feelings on the matter quite vividly.*)
Apparently he was quite a regular at the local ER and they only checked him in because I was there - usually they just kicked him back to the street. A few days later I found out that he'd left on his own. He was a veteran and they wanted to transfer him to the VA's alcohol and drug detox facility and he refused. He thought that the "poorly trained unskilled" staff at the VA would be the death of him.
Funny how instant death via animal euthanasia solution or a slow (but apparently gratifying) death by alcoholism was okay. But face the possibility of death where he might actually find some help? No way.
I guess everybody's mind works differently.
-e
* This lead to a rather wierd phenomena though. As articulate as he was in my presence, the minute a doctor, nurse, social worker, or anyone else who actually mattered walked in the room, he instantly transformed into a beligerant, raving, drunk who made no sense at all. It was uncanny and made for a difficult time getting him admitted.
I started to feel like that guy in the Warner Brother's cartoon with the singing frog.
I know that my mother didn't give up 40+ years of addiction and alcoholism because she was: in danger of losing yet another job, actively stealing from and lying to her family, clearly seriously impaired 24/7/365, in poor health, or anything else you can think of.
My father spent years as her enabler, but towards the end was clearly completely lost in regards to what was wrong with his wife.
She went though 4 rehabs and relapsed each time. Each rehab stay was preceeded by some kind of drug/alcohol related crisis that made her say "This is really it!", but it never was.
Finally, it was the loss of her Driver's License that made her serious. She went back to rehab because "the stupid state took away her ONLY freedom and she was going to show them and get it back from them!" She wasn't interested in being sober, in loving her family, or any other "good" reason to go into rehab. It was a big dramatic thing and clearly the way her mind was working at the time was that she just wanted her license back so she could go back to sneaking around like she'd done before.
But for whatever reason, during rehab she decided to listen and has over a year and a half sober now. It became more than just getting her driver's license back when she realized she was getting her life back as well.
So, as selfish as her motivation was and as totally catalyzed by an outside action - for whatever reason, that rehab trip woke something up inside.
This isn't to say that that's going to work for everybody. A few weeks ago I drove a man to the hospital so he could check into a detox program. He had been living on the streets for over a year and clearly was beyond any kind of bottom I could ever imagine for myself. While I waited with him in the ER he started going through the DTs and asked me to go to the vet school to get some euthanasia solution and kill him quickly. When I said "no" he alternated between planning complex and bloody suicides and suggesting we just leave and he'd go back to killing himself slowly with alcohol. (He was probably the most articulate drunk I've ever talked to. He knew exactly what was going on, where it was leading, and even intoxicated could describe his feelings on the matter quite vividly.*)
Apparently he was quite a regular at the local ER and they only checked him in because I was there - usually they just kicked him back to the street. A few days later I found out that he'd left on his own. He was a veteran and they wanted to transfer him to the VA's alcohol and drug detox facility and he refused. He thought that the "poorly trained unskilled" staff at the VA would be the death of him.
Funny how instant death via animal euthanasia solution or a slow (but apparently gratifying) death by alcoholism was okay. But face the possibility of death where he might actually find some help? No way.
I guess everybody's mind works differently.
-e
* This lead to a rather wierd phenomena though. As articulate as he was in my presence, the minute a doctor, nurse, social worker, or anyone else who actually mattered walked in the room, he instantly transformed into a beligerant, raving, drunk who made no sense at all. It was uncanny and made for a difficult time getting him admitted.
I started to feel like that guy in the Warner Brother's cartoon with the singing frog.
CindeRella is proof that a new pair of shoes can change your life!
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Spreading my wings
Posts: 7,163
Originally Posted by tracee1010 
I worked in corrections/probation for a short time and it was a common rule that if you got a client with 2 or more DUI/DWI's that they needed to get into treatment, as they have a problem.
Any "normal" social drinker that gets a DUI/DWI is soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo scared and freaked out by it they NEVER drink and drive again. but if someone is naive/sick/or narcissistic enough to take the change not to get caught an drink and drive again, they are not stopping becaue they cant.
Any "normal" social drinker that gets a DUI/DWI is soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo scared and freaked out by it they NEVER drink and drive again. but if someone is naive/sick/or narcissistic enough to take the change not to get caught an drink and drive again, they are not stopping becaue they cant.
My X is facing 3 DUI's that happened all within 2 months from each other- the first one he got off because he crashed his car and walked home-so he was not in the car-so after 3 in two months, let's just say he is still drinking-
Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,351
here is my take --everyone on my forum knows it and most don't agree---action is the answer---they are incapable of caring for themselves---soooo I put my AS into many rehabs/detox/hospitals--did some good--didn't work....AA didn't work--finally he crossed the line--he did about a week in jail--I made arrangements with the Judge--madatory testing--weekly---MD and Psych--weekly.....In patient/outpatient--he did it or he would have gone to jail for 2 years--and he didnt like jail!
His doctor was one who specialised in alcoholism--Meds Camphrol for craving worked like a dream--Then med for underlying depression--even better--his councelling is done 1>1 with a psych who is an recovering A...
HE WAS FORSED
I was going to have him committed to a state mental institution if this didn't work and he is 27--yet as addicts they can be deemed incompetant--they are!!!!Some said I was wrong but yes in a year he would have been sober like it or not-in that place.I would rather that than bury him.
8 months sober now---after 14 years of trying to help--etting him help--everything we all do.....I pulled out the ''big guns'' locked him down--once he was sober long enough he could thing straight and had some clue what damage he was doing to himself and everyone around him---It was one night when I was desperate--he had lost control and assaulted me--I was in my mind planning his funeral--and it hit me NO WAY is this crap gonna take him from this life.
He was sooooo mad at me for the longest time--now he thanks me for saving his life. It was hard to do but what was the alternative?
To those who tell me over and over how wrong I am/was I only have to say--he is clean and sober--and happy--getting on with his life.
His doctor was one who specialised in alcoholism--Meds Camphrol for craving worked like a dream--Then med for underlying depression--even better--his councelling is done 1>1 with a psych who is an recovering A...
HE WAS FORSED
I was going to have him committed to a state mental institution if this didn't work and he is 27--yet as addicts they can be deemed incompetant--they are!!!!Some said I was wrong but yes in a year he would have been sober like it or not-in that place.I would rather that than bury him.
8 months sober now---after 14 years of trying to help--etting him help--everything we all do.....I pulled out the ''big guns'' locked him down--once he was sober long enough he could thing straight and had some clue what damage he was doing to himself and everyone around him---It was one night when I was desperate--he had lost control and assaulted me--I was in my mind planning his funeral--and it hit me NO WAY is this crap gonna take him from this life.
He was sooooo mad at me for the longest time--now he thanks me for saving his life. It was hard to do but what was the alternative?
To those who tell me over and over how wrong I am/was I only have to say--he is clean and sober--and happy--getting on with his life.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: SAN DIEGO, CA
Posts: 379
Sorry Parent, I don't mean to hijack your thread -
Sunflower -
I too have had severe problems with my oldest son, and took lots of flack from friends, family, and even the juvenile court system (when he was a minor) about my hard stance. I KNEW what was best for him and no one would listen. "They" did what they thought was best, and the result was an adult, living on the streets, addicted to meth. Not pretty, and a further drain on society. He is doing much better today, but everyone (my son, family, friends, taxpayers, etc.) would have been better off served had he learned his lesson when he was a minor.
I applaud you for taking a hard stance with your child, keeping the faith, and staying strong. Good parrenting is not always easy and sometimes the rewards are a long time coming. Bravo!!
TinLizzy
Sunflower -
I too have had severe problems with my oldest son, and took lots of flack from friends, family, and even the juvenile court system (when he was a minor) about my hard stance. I KNEW what was best for him and no one would listen. "They" did what they thought was best, and the result was an adult, living on the streets, addicted to meth. Not pretty, and a further drain on society. He is doing much better today, but everyone (my son, family, friends, taxpayers, etc.) would have been better off served had he learned his lesson when he was a minor.
I applaud you for taking a hard stance with your child, keeping the faith, and staying strong. Good parrenting is not always easy and sometimes the rewards are a long time coming. Bravo!!
TinLizzy
Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,351
Thanks I don't know how good of a parent I am LOL--I just did what obviously had to be done-nothing else worked...I never listen to what others ''think''--or I should say I don't follow the crowd....as a parent you know them better than anyone else I think....Sorry about your son--I do hope he is well now.
Seems everyone doesn't like taking an almost militant approach to alcohol/drugs...but I mean how long can you play games with them!
Seems everyone doesn't like taking an almost militant approach to alcohol/drugs...but I mean how long can you play games with them!
Hope3
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Upstate, NY
Posts: 2,155
Well, I just have to tell you the truth..
All the statistics, of recovery treatment from acclaimed
centers, that I have read...Books, and so fourth, most alcoholics
went into some type of treatment, weather it was just A.A., rehab, couseling and therapy for alcoholism, because of family or court intervention...
Makes sense to me, because, trust me, I never would have gone into treatment on my own,,,,my lover pushed me, and you know what...I went kicking and screaming, but that was under an altered mind, (under the influence), once the toxins were free from my body, I realized that I could, and really needed to get better...
hope3
All the statistics, of recovery treatment from acclaimed
centers, that I have read...Books, and so fourth, most alcoholics
went into some type of treatment, weather it was just A.A., rehab, couseling and therapy for alcoholism, because of family or court intervention...
Makes sense to me, because, trust me, I never would have gone into treatment on my own,,,,my lover pushed me, and you know what...I went kicking and screaming, but that was under an altered mind, (under the influence), once the toxins were free from my body, I realized that I could, and really needed to get better...
hope3
Your attitude, not your aptitude, will determine your altitude
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Oxnard (The Nard), CA, USA.
Posts: 13,955
I went into rehab after an intervention by my family. I wasn’t sure I wanted to get sober but I was interested in what constituted addiction recovery. Like Hope3 after my head cleared up I begun to believe that addiction recovery would be possible. Where as before I thought I was doomed to be an addict for life. I went in for a 90 day program and ended up completing the 9 month program. I was taught how to live free from dope and it worked.
same planet...different world
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Butte, America
Posts: 10,946
I started to feel like that guy in the Warner Brother's cartoon with the singing frog.
and - look at it again - it's also the mystery of why this works for some nd not others...
well, at least it does if you think in cartoons.
in fact, to the illustrator's mind - it's a perfect analogy... metaphor?
Hope3
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Upstate, NY
Posts: 2,155
Look at how many relapse period. Relapse is part of the journey, sadly.
There is just as much relapsing of people who seeked help on their own, than
were pushed into it...Just look on the alcoholism boards....
Nowwhat is forced treatment...I think any time someone seeks help because
a loved one was nudging them, or set boundaries, or asked them to stop, as well as the harsher interventions from family or courts..
Tazman, didn't your wife have something to do with you finally getting it....
She stopped doing your laundry, stopped being your wife, etc...
PC, I believe what he said (alcoholism counselor) is more true than not, just look at the alcoholism forum, how many of us were nudged into treatment of some sort by some one else?
I was... and I think like sunlight, todays ways of working with addicts
are different from even just 20 years ago. Thats why it's important to look
at updated information on how the family and friends can help to get an addict into treatment.....
Bless us all...hope3
There is just as much relapsing of people who seeked help on their own, than
were pushed into it...Just look on the alcoholism boards....
Nowwhat is forced treatment...I think any time someone seeks help because
a loved one was nudging them, or set boundaries, or asked them to stop, as well as the harsher interventions from family or courts..
Tazman, didn't your wife have something to do with you finally getting it....
She stopped doing your laundry, stopped being your wife, etc...
PC, I believe what he said (alcoholism counselor) is more true than not, just look at the alcoholism forum, how many of us were nudged into treatment of some sort by some one else?
I was... and I think like sunlight, todays ways of working with addicts
are different from even just 20 years ago. Thats why it's important to look
at updated information on how the family and friends can help to get an addict into treatment.....
Bless us all...hope3
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