teej

wozz this made me about pee!!!

queenteree

Taz, Thanks, and I know you care. I am in no way offended by what you say, I admire what you have done and value your advice and opinions. As I have said before, you have helped me out so much in the past and I do so appreciate it. I never was in denial about AH's health issues, I was the one who knew he had a liver problem (all the symptoms of cirrhosis), made him go to our GP (who thought by the tests and physical characteristics he had cirrhosis) who referred him to a liver specialist, made AH go to two of them (he didn't like the first one)(both of which really thought he had cirrhosis) made him go thru with the liver biopsy and follow up on the appointments to the point where his liver dr. did not even like me cause I made him stress to my husband that it could kill him to keep drinking (which the dr. did say would happen at the first few visits). Do you know what, after the biopsy and diagnosis, that dr. wouldn't even go into the prognosis and dangers as I requested because I'm "not the patient" and AH could drink "once in a while" even though that same dr. diagnosed him with "alcoholic liver disease" and AH kept pushing about being able to drink. (I think that dr. is in denial about AH's alcoholism). After that, I threw my hands up in the air and gave up on his health. But he seriously, the liver dr. said his liver is functioning "normally, for now".
Again, thanks Taz for being there for me.
QT

Debaucher

There is an oldtimer at the AA meetings I go to who ways the same thing every time... (the last 1 minute of his talk)... one of the things he says is that...

"When I came in here I said I would lick this with will power... and they told me to try will power when you have diarrhea!"

I see alcohol in that light!... I have the will to choose not to drink but once I have 1 it is like someone trying not to go when they have diarrhea!

NoelleR

Amen Debaucher ----

"...I have the will to choose not to drink but once I have 1..." LOL (to the rest of that statement) and absolutely right.........up to that point

For me, I love that First Step.....it's written in PAST tense......YES, i WAS powerless over alcohol/drugs (when I put then in my system), and YES, my life WAS unmanageable..........

BUT

Today, I have power over alcohol/drugs; I don't put them in my system.....at least not like I used to.....NO alcohol (unless it's mouthwash, etc.....it doesn't bother me in such small quantities)....and ONLY prescribed meds (for this poor old body of mine)....and often waaaaay less than prescribed.....AND my life IS manageable, and it's good, good, GOOD..... (o:

As for the 'disease/not disease/will power/weak willed/control' debate...........I'll leave that to........whomever.... LOL


NoelleR
DOS: 6/23/86

Tazman53

You know deep down it is will power, but it is not will power to stop drinking, it is the will power to humble our alcoholic ego to a point where we are "willing" to use our "willpower" to make our selfs ask for help from a Power greater then our selfs.

It is using "willpower" to keep our selfs humble enough to work the steps, to work them with a sponsor, to go to meeting, and to help other alcoholics follow the same path we have followed to a "Solution" to our alcoholism.

To say an individual who is an alcoholic can use "willpower" alone to stop drinking can only be said by some one who has never walked in our shoes.

BP44

Will Power is Bill Power's brother and I got drunk with him often. Disease... not disease. It's really a mundane question. And the power of choice? In active alcoholism I have absolutely no choice but to drink. The only way I get any sense ofchoice is by working the first 3 steps. When I go to bed here shortly I will have chosen to do whatever it took to stay sober today. For me that was getting up this morning and hitting my knees and asking God to help me stay sober today, calling my sponsor and discussing step work we are doing, going to a meeting at lunch and a step study tonight, and in a few I'll thank God for helping me stay sober today. it really is that simple. But for this 24 hours that's how I got a choice to stay sober. The chronic and progressive nature of alcoholism is what makes it a disease for this alcoholic. To drink is to die. For those that don't understand or are having a difficult time grasping the disease concept, the doctor's opinion and the chapter more on alcoholism can be eyeopening. I know I have family memebers and maybe some friends who don't think I have a disease. Some have absolutely no idea about alcoholism, nor do they wish to learn. That's really not my problem. What others think say or do is really none of my business. My business is doing whatever it takes to stay sober. And only I was able to diagnose myself an alcoholic. When the person has lost control over alcohol and has had all he/she can take, then and only then will they seek help. It took what it took for me, and I suspect for your loved one it will be much the same. My wife attended some Al Anon meetings and I think posted here some time back when I was sobering up again. There is alot of support not only for us drunks, but for the family that has lived through the wreckage we create. Hope this helps

IO Storm

Yep yep yep....

For me to have one drink and stop would be for me to not only

have diarrhea but Ebonic. It wouldn't stop until I was dead.

I had already been miraculously healed of cirhhotic liver disease

and yet picked up again. In a few weeks my eyes were turning

yellow again...and my skin greyish.

I stopped in time..2/8/06...

New liver again..thank God.

Cunning, baffling, powerful, progressive and fatal.

I AM a living testimony of the effects of this condition called

Alcoholism , this disease.

Love,



IO

GlassPrisoner

WTF?!?!

Double WTF ?!?!?!

I'm usually pretty laid back, but I'm afraid you're way of base here medically speaking. Alcohol can, and DOES kill. It happens all the time. His liver WILL shut down, and if that doesn't kill him something else WILL, most likely WAY before he reaches 75. It will be slow and painful, and he'll put YOU through hell the entire time. Go over to the friends and family forum and search around, I remember reading at least 3 or 4 threads where men and women died....(I've only been here 6 months)

You can argue the point whether he is alcoholic or not until you're blue in the face. The fact is, accepting it or not accepting it will not change a thing. It will not simply go away because you have concluded that he is not an alcoholic.

You can't help him, but AT LEAST learn about the disease, and get some help for yourself.

Mercedes1

Alchoholism is a disease of an unhealthy DESIRE. 2 people are given a tootsie roll. both say no. the one person that says no doesnt like the taste, gives her a headache and she can think of much better options to chocolate than a hard, tasteless tootsie roll. The other person says no but unlike the first gal, LOVES the chocolate, gets a rush when she eats it and can't put it down. BOTH have a choice, but both don't have the same temptation.

The choice is to not drink period. So yes, your hubby does have a choice. But not to manage it. Managing it like you and your son do is like trying to tell a shark in a frenzy to save some for later. It is much harder and not the same experience

To get the same result as a moderation drinker does (drinking responsibly) an alchoholic can't drink. Just like sugar, you do with out it awhile it becomes more tolerable.

Disease is an over done term. I don't believe in it like a medical condition, but do in the mind and spirit.