leviathon

Just a follow up, I posted to raise awareness to this issue, not to engage in a debate about the "sickness" of those that engage in this type of conduct.

The point is just to remind newbies and oldbies alike that not everyone approaches this with a pure heart and that we are each responsible for maintaining our own safety and security... our recovery demands that of us.

For example, I find being around others drinking makes me want to drink, so I stay away from bars. That is a way to ensure my safety and security. Make sense?

Dee74

always here for you Sherry...and prayers as requested ? You betcha.
thanks for your lovely words. Sorry I took so long. Needed to feel the sun on my face today...it worked...I'm back refreshed and reenergised...and still 'stopped'.

I'll be there with you tomorrow
D

Tazman53

Sherry prayers for the court date thing.

I agree that in the end we are resposible for our selfs, but I feel that there is a degree of responsibility that people who are further along in the walk in sobriety to help those who are just starting to walk down the path of sobriety to help them avoid pit falls that those with a more mature sobriety are aware of.

The amount of time one is sober is not a good yard stick to use in who we can trust, we were all sick when we started walking down that path of sobriety, some of us much sicker then others.

Some of us can do an awful lot of healing in a short amount of time in many areas, some of us can have many years of sobriety with very little true healing. Some can still be very sick and be sober for a very long time.

We all need to be aware that just because some one has not drank for a very long time and talks the talk very well, that they may not be walking the talk.

You know right now I am rambling because I am flustered, having been a master manipulator for 40 years I should have been able to spot what was going on here, instead I was decieved by the web some one was weaving, looking back I can see the web being wove, but hind site is 20-20, I have a long way to go.

Dee74

having been on the net - forums, usenet, and the like - for many years, I've developed my own set of checks and balances that help me sort out the genuine folk from the grifters...

I'm pleased to say the good friends I've made here in SR are amongst the best I've found on the web...but I think it's important we all remember we're dealing in relationships based on words here...it can be very easy for someone to construct things that don't actually exist...very easy for someone to portray themselves as something they're not...very easy for us to be fooled....very easy to destroy reputations in an single post.

I'm not trying to scaremonger...it's an emotive issue and can be overdramatized...but we all have common sense and we're all capable of using it.

Give of yourself as freely as you want...that's what makes this place great... but don't give yourself away...that's something too precious to gamble with.

peace y'all
D

miss communicat

thank you Dee

chrisj728

I was aware of the thirteenth step through reading parts of orange papers, but it only refered to it as Bill Wilsons thirteenth step as he was allegedly a ladies man.
But I for one have to say that I was totaly blind to the shamefull things that were carrying on here by an individual supposidley in the name of AA.
I went to a meeting tonight and couldn't stop thinking if there were any similar peeps within the room, but thankfully I reached the conclusion that the majority of AA members are there for recovery only and to pass the messege on without ulteria motives.

Peter

There will always be others looking to exploit the weaknesses of others. This is true in perhaps every aspect of life.

In my ten years as a member of AA I have seen maybe three cases of 13th Stepping, and on all but one occasion it was nipped in the bud.

Despite these unfortunate instances AA still remains a place of safety, inspiration and hope for me.The majority of the people I know in AA are fine individuals who work hard to carry the message to other suffering alcoholics.

Use prudence in your dealings with others at all times but don't let the fear of betrayal stop you from seeking the help that you need.

jimhere

As has been said, there are 13th Steppers of both sexes, but based on my observations, it is usually a man preying on the newly sober women. So this is mostly for the women-you ladies beware the wolves in sheeps clothing.
Jim

IO Storm

Hmmmm....I used to drive girls from the local 90 day in patient to outside meetings...

They talked about all the cute guys including my BF, but I saw it for what it was...

So Let's keep it THAT EVERYONE SHOULD BE AWARE........

My gosh....last year when BF and I reuntied we Both had to tell one girl to

get lost...she stalked him even when we were back together...begging for

-------. I had to politley tell guys I was not available as well.

It works both ways.

Open your eyes.

You men need to stay on guard also...some women are sicker than others too.

Save yourself some grief...and find a healthy date.

Love,

Sherry

IO Storm

Uhh that reunited not untied...lol.

Bad experiences all around with this stuff anyhow.

Gonna go find Bee 62 a new avatar.....

And reach out to Newbies on the bus.

This thread makes my tummy sick.

Love,

:

Sherry

Borrowing from RZ....

"Give only love"

WalkOfFaith

Just my 2 cents. I've been told by a rehab social worker, a doctor, and a counselor that the attraction to other people in the program is almost a given. After all - there is so much in common to share that they can each relate to. There's also that wishful thinking "Oh, I've found someone who really, really understands me....", that pink cloud thing "oh, maybe I'm not as sick as my SO thinks I am b/c this person thinks I'm really together, strong, whatever".

But, the reality is that yes, there is a vulnerability in the newcomer but there can also be a stalking affect in the newcomer too. So, you could very likely have a sober and actively recovering addict/alcoholic whose offers of assistance, help and friendship are misinterpreted by the newcomer as something more than what it realy is. It's like replacing one addiction for another. I think that members of a recovery group should make themselves aware of the potential for this type of imbalanced relationship to be created, get honest with each other and themselves, and communicate honestly with another recovery member if they observe a potentially "dangerous" situation brewing... I just don't think that all 13th Steppers or rehab romances are about preying on the sick.

My alcoholic SO got caught up in a supposed "rehab romance" when his friendliness and openess was misinterpreted by a woman in his group as being an intimate "friendship". Ultimately, they graduated, he stayed sober, she didn't, and she continued to contact him incessently when she was drunk and rambling, etc. He told me that he just couldn't jeopardize his recovery by remaining friends with her when she obviously wasn't working her program. When she wouldn't heed his requests to stop calling, he resorted to having a friend tell her he was in jail so she would go away. Sure, sounds extreme, but there was apparently a one-sided thing going on here that he wasn't even aware was being interpreted as such.

Who knows? We each are responsible for our own recovery. Hanging with healthy people or people who are truly working their program are our best mentors.

I hope I have not offended anyone......

Tazman53

Walkoffaith I do not see how you could have offended anyone, what you shared is true, however it is not by the defenition used in my area of AA of what 13th stepping is, 13th stepping is someone with a good deal of sobriety taking advantage of a newcomer or folks in AA for nothing more then to take advantage of newcomers. Both of them are predators, very sick disgusting predators!

Newcomer romance is a tough one for sponsors to try to convince newcomers to avoid, some times we succeed, some times we fail.

Dee74

Thanks for your post Walk of Faith...OK, it may not be 13th stepping as understood by AA, but that doesn't diminish the issue, and I'm glad it was raised here.

D

leviathon

Taz, you raise a very good point. 13th stepping is not limited to those seeking dates, it extends to those using others in AA for their own benefit or amusement.

I want to be clear, in my time, I have seen it very infrequently. It is not a common thing. Most people in AA really frown on it and will actively deal with the 13th steppers when they show up.

Just more of my 2 cents.

Levi

IO Storm

Who knows? We each are responsible for our own recovery. Hanging with healthy people or people who are truly working their program are our best mentors.

Ditto Walk of Faith....

Good advice for anyone...male or female....if this is kept in

mind....safety is then a given.

But folks should keep this in mind as well...there are no heroes

or "sober gods" in the Programs...a person is to work their

own ..or take their Steps...and not rely 100% on any "expert".

One dear old old timer lady who sponsored countless people

in AA.....always told her protege's...

Don't even tell your sponsor everything...tell it to God..or

a minister...because your sponsor is apt to go out and get drunk

and then your story might be all over town!

"We are all one drink away from a drunk"...

Love,

:

Sherry

Ten Chips Down

Hi everyone

Ok well here's my assessment. First, I'm a dude not a lass. I hang out mostly at Substance Abuse, but I'm actually a pureblood alkie through and through. I just amassed 11 years sober on April 15th.

Go me.

This posting is not directed at Leviathon, believe it or not. lol I don't know her/him. I am only addressing the issue, which is an interesting one. (So no offense, Levi!!) My reaction to the PSA was identical to Communicat's--overdone, especially in light of the PSA already sticky'd forum-wide.

Hey, I was taught stranger-danger when I was four. lol And I have absolutely no less confidence that the female counterpart of my species can protect themselves just fine...

I am unaware of the "rash of recent slayings"... lol as a result of meetings originating on SR. As such, I think this is creating a boogey'man' (with the VERY sexist emphasis on man).

Another issue no one has thought of... Just who are we to tell others "don't have sex" or "don't talk to people who want sex, they are all baaaad."

lol Give me a break now--that's a 12-Step guideline. It is none of SR's business to dictate this level of behavior, regardless of the intentions behind doing so.

I seriously agree with IO Storm and others here that people are going to do what they damned well want behind closed doors, and it is not the role of this forum to report, snoop, or otherwise babysit its members. Not in this area. I am sorry, that is my opinion.

Cheers, though everyone! I hope everyone is doing ok

Ten

Midas

So what you're saying, is that it's perfectly OK for women to be harassed (either sexually or otherwise)? I think you need make an appointment to get your head removed from your anus, Ten. SoberRecovery does not aspire to control the behavior of its members. Our emphasis is on handling inappropriate behavior.

historyteach

Always has been, Midas. I agree!

And, there are women and men both who can become vulnerable at times. Especially when dealing with drugs and alcoholism by the self or others.

When those PEOPLE get illegally harrassed, threatened, verbally or physically assaulted, and let us know, it *is* the responsibility of the forum mods and admins to do their jobs.
Regardless of anyone's opinion.

Shalom!

best

Ya want to know my opinion Ten? Well I will give it anyway.
My opinion "as a member here not as a mod"

With 11 years sober as of April 15... I don't think you need the services that SR provides. SR is not AA and they can do as they please and I do know that anyone who does not agree with what goes on here for any reason can stop showing up any time they so choose. For someone who says they have 11 years... in my opinion... you don't show it so well and if you were to never come back it wouldn't bother me one bit.

Now speaking as a mod...

We are a mix of many people here and some people are sicker then others. Some people are more vulnerable then others and I see it as my job as a fellow human and a mod to help protect in any way I can those who are the prey of the people who seek to take advantage of the weak and vulnerable.
As a mod that is human and because of my opinion of your sharing... I stand aside when it comes to dealing with you and your opinion but don't you ever get in my way if I am trying to protect someone who is hurting and vulnerable because PMs will fly and admin will either have you leave or have me leave because there are some things that I as an individual will not tolerate at all.

Luckyv2

Wow!

We have rules to go by here at SR also just in case no one has read them I will post them!



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Now this is my OPINION since I am not suppose to use upper case letters
But if you know me and my personality than I am not shouting but just trying to make sure that I am heard.

For one and I don't want to get into it a lot, but 13 steppers is no where in the program of NA/AA!

The old preamble as it was written states that we probably shouldn't listen to anything said that isn't mentioned in the AA Big Book. No where in the first 164 pages does it talk about 13 steppers and is a matter of fact no where in the first 164 pages of the AA Big Book does it talk about sponsorship.

HOWEVER

In the NA Basic Text it does talk about sponsorship all over the first 103 pages. It also talks about in the IP that men with men and women with women when it comes to sponsorship. That is it.

We are all human, let us not forget that. One part of the Big Book that I love but it is so hard to live by.....

"IF I complain about you or I complain about me I am complaining about Gods Handy work this is saying that I know better than GOD!"

Who am I to judge someone for what they are doing. I have a checked past just like the rest of us here. NONE of us have been degraded enough to join in the Spirit of Love and to show respect! What is the message behind the 12 Steps? My sponsor told me that it is RESPECT!

Respect for who? EVERYONE! I am sorry but I don't like the sarcastic remarks that are being made. That isn't proper nor is it suppose to happen on the forums according to the rules of SR!

I don't want to hear that if they knew back then about the so called 13 step that it would have been in the big book either. Bill W. from what I understand had a affair also, so should we belittle him as well? Come on guys,

WHO HASN'T SINNED CAST THE FIRST STONE TO ME PLEASE!

With Love and Respect

Vic

OH BTW "I am not responsible for my disease but I am responsible for my own recovery"

That is a quote out of the NA Basic Text which tells me that I am no longer a victim