Right Or Wrong ?
Paused
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: pacific beach,ca
Posts: 42
Right Or Wrong ?
I seem to find as I go along the path, that, from time to time I come up with someone or something that I do not agree with.Now that in itself is fine, I can't possibly agree with everyone and evrything.The problem is this,if I disagre,with you,YOU are wrong, and I am right.I don't know if it just me or alcoholics or everyone who goes through this,but the minute I shift from,oh I disagree with you, to ,NO!! YOU ARE WRONG AND I AM RIGHT!My mind snaps shut,and it starts to eat my insides,and unless I can pause and ask God to help me,and to take some action I experience the wosrt kind of mental and physical and spiritual pain describable.That is the thing,these resentments that I cannot afford to let live in me.It comes down to this.Am I willing to die drunk,to be right? God please let me have an open mind and an open heart,and let me not forget the Grace that pulled me back from the gates of insanity and death.
WE humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings
Man,I got a long way to go
WE humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings
Man,I got a long way to go
Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Leaving Sparta
Posts: 2,912
You are not alone WQ.I too suffer with the "I am right you are wrong" syndrome.
It is Spiritually damaging, it alienates people and it very often causes me to hurt the ones I love.
Real recovery for me means changing my old ways and behavior.
Step 10 asks me to promptly make amends for hurting others and for a long time I used to think it was ok to simply apologize and beg forgiveness.I would walk around thinking I had done my part and was following the spiritual path but I was repeating the same mistakes over and over,pushing people further and further away.
To really apologize means I not only have to say I am sorry but I have to change my old ways and behavior so I need never have to harm anyone again.
If I am unwilling to change and recover I will only dig myself deeper into isolation until one day the phone stops ringing or I open my mailbox and there is nothing there.
Recovery is not a myth and it is not a spectator sport.
Peter.
It is Spiritually damaging, it alienates people and it very often causes me to hurt the ones I love.
Real recovery for me means changing my old ways and behavior.
Step 10 asks me to promptly make amends for hurting others and for a long time I used to think it was ok to simply apologize and beg forgiveness.I would walk around thinking I had done my part and was following the spiritual path but I was repeating the same mistakes over and over,pushing people further and further away.
To really apologize means I not only have to say I am sorry but I have to change my old ways and behavior so I need never have to harm anyone again.
If I am unwilling to change and recover I will only dig myself deeper into isolation until one day the phone stops ringing or I open my mailbox and there is nothing there.
Recovery is not a myth and it is not a spectator sport.
Peter.
Paused
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Austin TX
Posts: 55
Hmmm...
Good topic and posts. I, too, have trouble with this one from time to time. I literally bristle at times on particularly sensitive subjects.
Amends has crept in here, and I confess, I am a bit confused what a true amends is all about. I have read the section in the book about it several times. and I find these guiding principles (forgive the book quotes here, but that's all I have to go on):
Pg 76:
"As we look over the list of business aquaintenances and friends we have hurt, we may feel diffident (lacking in self confidence) about going to some of them on a spiritual basis." (e.g. approach them on a spiritual basis)
Pg 77:
"We go to him in a helpful and forgiving spirit, confessing our former ill feeling and expressing our regret."
Pg 79:
"...we are not to be the hasty and foolish martyr who would needlessly sacrifice others to save himself from the alcoholic pit."
Pg 83:
"We should be sensible, tactful, considerate, and humble without being servile or scraping. As God's people, we stand on our feet; we don't crawl before anyone."
I've looked up various words and derivations, and I can see that what is meant to be addressed by amends are actions that have harmed, impaired, negatively affected another's emotional state, or commercial issues. Now, here's my experience.
I went to make an amends today, and lo and behold, when I checked my motives, I was feeling rather guilty and was really looking for forgiveness from the person I believe I had harmed. Fortunately the person was busy, and the amend has been postponed.
Doesn't really seem like a true amends here as my motives were centered in selfish fear, and perhaps ego (My God, Look what I have done!!!)
How am I supposed to know if or how I have actually harmed someone? I am confused here and would like to know your experience with this step.
Blessings
Amends has crept in here, and I confess, I am a bit confused what a true amends is all about. I have read the section in the book about it several times. and I find these guiding principles (forgive the book quotes here, but that's all I have to go on):
Pg 76:
"As we look over the list of business aquaintenances and friends we have hurt, we may feel diffident (lacking in self confidence) about going to some of them on a spiritual basis." (e.g. approach them on a spiritual basis)
Pg 77:
"We go to him in a helpful and forgiving spirit, confessing our former ill feeling and expressing our regret."
Pg 79:
"...we are not to be the hasty and foolish martyr who would needlessly sacrifice others to save himself from the alcoholic pit."
Pg 83:
"We should be sensible, tactful, considerate, and humble without being servile or scraping. As God's people, we stand on our feet; we don't crawl before anyone."
I've looked up various words and derivations, and I can see that what is meant to be addressed by amends are actions that have harmed, impaired, negatively affected another's emotional state, or commercial issues. Now, here's my experience.
I went to make an amends today, and lo and behold, when I checked my motives, I was feeling rather guilty and was really looking for forgiveness from the person I believe I had harmed. Fortunately the person was busy, and the amend has been postponed.
Doesn't really seem like a true amends here as my motives were centered in selfish fear, and perhaps ego (My God, Look what I have done!!!)
How am I supposed to know if or how I have actually harmed someone? I am confused here and would like to know your experience with this step.
Blessings
Paused
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: pacific beach,ca
Posts: 42
Calm Dowm
Ask God for an intiutive thought or decision ask to be given strength to do the right thing,then relax and take it easy.
Remember our real purpose it to fit ourselves to be of mximum service to God and our fellows.
We found that when we put our lives in God's hands things worked out better than we could have ever planned,or something to that effect
Ask God for an intiutive thought or decision ask to be given strength to do the right thing,then relax and take it easy.
Remember our real purpose it to fit ourselves to be of mximum service to God and our fellows.
We found that when we put our lives in God's hands things worked out better than we could have ever planned,or something to that effect
Member
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: The Basement
Posts: 724
The important thing to remember in the ninth step is that the amends are for you. It doesn't matter if you harmed this person or not. The deal is that it's bothering you so there is some kind of disharmony here from your perspective. Making an amends will make it right with you and you don't have to carry it around anymore. Carrying around resentment, shame, regret, whatever it is, can be very dangerous for an alcoholic.
Checking your motives is always smart. You say you had a selfish motive here of wanting to be forgiven. It's very hard for us to determine what is an appropriate amends and one that is self seeking. I have learned that this step is best done with a sponsor. My sponsor took people off my list that I couldn't believe.
Finally, years later and trying to practice these principals in all my affairs. I see the amends goes back to some of the basics for me. The few things that I have found are key to my staying sober. Willingness and humility.
I don't know what page it's on I always just remembered it. I am not quoting it exactly but the premise is this. If I am disturbed by something in someone most likely it has to do with something within me. When I was using if someone disturbed me I would probably have done something I would owe an amends for later. I would never have seen what they did as having anything to do with me.
Today I can use the tools and realize that my perception may have been off and I should not have acted that way. It's ok to act out sometimes. It's progress not perfection. As long as I make the amends, my side of the street is clean and I can go to sleep with a clear conscience and do it sober. Going to sleep sober with a clear conscience is one of the main reasons the amends are for us.
Checking your motives is always smart. You say you had a selfish motive here of wanting to be forgiven. It's very hard for us to determine what is an appropriate amends and one that is self seeking. I have learned that this step is best done with a sponsor. My sponsor took people off my list that I couldn't believe.
Finally, years later and trying to practice these principals in all my affairs. I see the amends goes back to some of the basics for me. The few things that I have found are key to my staying sober. Willingness and humility.
I don't know what page it's on I always just remembered it. I am not quoting it exactly but the premise is this. If I am disturbed by something in someone most likely it has to do with something within me. When I was using if someone disturbed me I would probably have done something I would owe an amends for later. I would never have seen what they did as having anything to do with me.
Today I can use the tools and realize that my perception may have been off and I should not have acted that way. It's ok to act out sometimes. It's progress not perfection. As long as I make the amends, my side of the street is clean and I can go to sleep with a clear conscience and do it sober. Going to sleep sober with a clear conscience is one of the main reasons the amends are for us.
Last edited by Stephanie; 04-18-2003 at 11:27 PM.
Paused
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Austin TX
Posts: 55
Appreciate yor response Searching
I appreciate your response to my note and question.
My sponsor is doing the same thing with my list as yours did with yours. He has already removed several names that shocked me, and gave me something to consider in the morning times with HP.
He told me that he finds in his own experience that his own guilt over something he did actually feeds his ego, whether it be over the actions he did or the guilt he felt. That's a perspective I never considered before, and it has turned the amends process on its head for me.
I am also finding that many of the amends I see are actually all about amending my behavior in situations or around certain people. He added a principle to my list I had missed, where we are hard on ourselvves, but easy on others.
I find in some instancces where he took a name off of the list, I have to pray alot asking HP to remove the obsession in my mind and direct my next right thought and action Works well in some instances and more slowly in others, but it is working.
The final thing I am finding is that in a lot of cases, the amends I owe is to myself, either in offering honesty to someone where I have not been forth coming, not making the same mistake in an upcoming instance, that sort of thing.
Has that also been your experience?
My sponsor is doing the same thing with my list as yours did with yours. He has already removed several names that shocked me, and gave me something to consider in the morning times with HP.
He told me that he finds in his own experience that his own guilt over something he did actually feeds his ego, whether it be over the actions he did or the guilt he felt. That's a perspective I never considered before, and it has turned the amends process on its head for me.
I am also finding that many of the amends I see are actually all about amending my behavior in situations or around certain people. He added a principle to my list I had missed, where we are hard on ourselvves, but easy on others.
I find in some instancces where he took a name off of the list, I have to pray alot asking HP to remove the obsession in my mind and direct my next right thought and action Works well in some instances and more slowly in others, but it is working.
The final thing I am finding is that in a lot of cases, the amends I owe is to myself, either in offering honesty to someone where I have not been forth coming, not making the same mistake in an upcoming instance, that sort of thing.
Has that also been your experience?
Member
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: The Basement
Posts: 724
The final thing I am finding is that in a lot of cases, the amends I owe is to myself, either in offering honesty to someone where I have not been forth coming, not making the same mistake in an upcoming instance, that sort of thing.
Has that also been your experience?
I love this. You show tremendous awareness here about how doing the right thing and learning from our mistakes makes us feel good about ourselves, therefore we want to treat ourselves better. It also makes it easier to forgive ourselves for past mistakes. I definitely agree with the amends to self thing. It's very important. Guilt and shame are two things a lot of people drink over.
I also resolved to making amends to some people by just staying sober. My parents, for example. How do you tell these people you're sorry. There has been too much pain and too much damage. I was told to just stay sober and eventually that will be amends enough.
Has that also been your experience?
I love this. You show tremendous awareness here about how doing the right thing and learning from our mistakes makes us feel good about ourselves, therefore we want to treat ourselves better. It also makes it easier to forgive ourselves for past mistakes. I definitely agree with the amends to self thing. It's very important. Guilt and shame are two things a lot of people drink over.
I also resolved to making amends to some people by just staying sober. My parents, for example. How do you tell these people you're sorry. There has been too much pain and too much damage. I was told to just stay sober and eventually that will be amends enough.
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
