Think I'm Hardcore?..read this
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Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: scottsdale az
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Sorry Peter
I'm sorry Peter for replacing your name in the the place of whiskeyquicker. And whiskeyquicker if you are going to hop on my bones, I want to let you know that I respect your point of view. It's yours. I have mine. I'm worrying about me today. As you should be worrying about you today.
But Very, Very Bruisable...
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Palm Springs, Ca.
Posts: 548
Originally posted by whiskysquicker
As always I stand by my experience,and informed opinion to attempt to give practical advice
As always I stand by my experience,and informed opinion to attempt to give practical advice
Hmmmm...I've always been taught by the oldtimers that as far as AA my opinions don't matter and that we don't give advice...
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Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Berkeley, California
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Whom should I reply to first? My name is Marilyn not Marylin by the way whiskyman. Actually, the only one I want to reply to is Jon, thanks for clarifying the quotes I didn't have strenth to get through. You restored my faith. Thanks.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: pacific beach,ca
Posts: 42
I'm sorry I made amistake in the spelling of your name I am not much of a typist and was getting a little carried away.
I still want to be helpful if I can
Here is the quote regarding giving advicepg. pg.
96
He has read this volume and says he is prepared to go through with the Twelve Steps of the program of recovery. Having had the experience yourself, you can give him much practical advice.
pgs. 18 &19 and the concerning opinions
Most of us sense that real tolerance of other people's shortcomings and viewpoints and a respect for their opinions are attitudes which make us
Page 19
more useful to others. Our very lives, as ex-problem drinkers, depend upon our constant thought of others and how we may help meet their needs.
I still want to be helpful if I can
Here is the quote regarding giving advicepg. pg.
96
He has read this volume and says he is prepared to go through with the Twelve Steps of the program of recovery. Having had the experience yourself, you can give him much practical advice.
pgs. 18 &19 and the concerning opinions
Most of us sense that real tolerance of other people's shortcomings and viewpoints and a respect for their opinions are attitudes which make us
Page 19
more useful to others. Our very lives, as ex-problem drinkers, depend upon our constant thought of others and how we may help meet their needs.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: pacific beach,ca
Posts: 42
Well I 've done my part made my amends it's water over the dam.I was hoping to give some practical advice,but as was pointed out to me this forum,is not Alcoholics Anoymous ,and that's ok,but the it is my opinion of the many who have happy sobriety that the best shot at sobriety in AA is following the program outlined in the book precisely.I ,and noone that I associate with would ever suggest that AA is the only way,I have personally witnessed my best freind recover by receiving Jesus Christ as his personal Lord and Saviour and he is far happier than a lot of folks I have come in contact with on this board,but I certainly wouldn't say that you do what my freind did.
Again AA is just an approach that worked with us,so my intent is to stay as close to the letter of the law,without forgetting the spirit of the law.The watering down of AAs message within the fellowship is causing problems,so that all I am saying if you don't agree with the AA program go elsewhere and do some other method,instead of deriding people who are attempting to pass along the precise instructions contained in the book,I mean is
that unreasonable? I nevr have been an advocate of running people out of AA,if there not serious they weed themselves out anyway.But I feel you might as well be upfront with them what AA is from the beginning,not my opinion or yours,just what's in the book the AA program,hey it's not for everyone
Again AA is just an approach that worked with us,so my intent is to stay as close to the letter of the law,without forgetting the spirit of the law.The watering down of AAs message within the fellowship is causing problems,so that all I am saying if you don't agree with the AA program go elsewhere and do some other method,instead of deriding people who are attempting to pass along the precise instructions contained in the book,I mean is
that unreasonable? I nevr have been an advocate of running people out of AA,if there not serious they weed themselves out anyway.But I feel you might as well be upfront with them what AA is from the beginning,not my opinion or yours,just what's in the book the AA program,hey it's not for everyone
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Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: The Basement
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That's just it, you're intent is to try to stay to the letter of the law. You're saying that you follow the big book exactly but it is possible to have different perceptions of what is written in the big book. Alcoholism is a disease of perception. I do believe that line is in there, right.
For example, when you first quoted the Big Book in regard to giving advice, I read that to mean that as someone's sponsor or as a sought out party you have been asked to guide someone through the 12 steps. The practical advice part seems to me to be what we would be giving in regard to how we went about working the steps based on our interpretation of them and our sponsor's direction.
For example, when you first quoted the Big Book in regard to giving advice, I read that to mean that as someone's sponsor or as a sought out party you have been asked to guide someone through the 12 steps. The practical advice part seems to me to be what we would be giving in regard to how we went about working the steps based on our interpretation of them and our sponsor's direction.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Dreaming Summer
Posts: 821
Originally posted by justaround
Whiskey, AA is for anybody who has a desire to quit drinking. The only requirments to attend a meeting is to be sober "right now".
Whiskey, AA is for anybody who has a desire to quit drinking. The only requirments to attend a meeting is to be sober "right now".
The Third Tradition states that the only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking.
Anyone with an alcohol problem is welcome to attend a meeting.
phoenix
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Hmmm...I bellieve that the homegroup I attend does not accept someone who is admittedly drunk or drinking in the group. They usually are told to sober up, leave, and that in a couple hours there is another meeting! I don't believe there has been a single meeting I have been to where someone was allowed to be drunk, high on junk, or stoned at the time. What they do after the meeting is their choice..
And Phoenix quick question....if a requirment is the desire to quit drinking, don't you think that allowing someone that is drunk in a meeting is kind of contradictive? I mean, are they really showing a desire to quit? Yes, they got off their ass to go to the meeting, true, but they could wait until they sober up and then show their desire. How I seee it, that is just plain rude.
"And next to the man with a burning desire to quit, with only two days sober, sits down next to him a drunk man with alcohol on his breath." I feel bad for that guy.
Ohhhh but that man had a desire to quit so if he relapsed because of that then he really had no desire to quit.....so if I was a crackhead with two days sober and some other crackhead passed a crackpipe to me, I would have the courage to say no? Possibly, but the point is, aallowing someone who is drunk into a meeting, brings nothing theraputic.
All I know is that I haven't been to a meeting where you are allowed in to be intoxicated at a meeting, last week a girl was booted out because she was 60 DAYS SOBER FROM ALCOHOL!! Oh yes, but she had smoked a big ol joint before heading in. She was not obnoxious, but I think we all know how somebody looks when they are stoned, and when they are drunk.
And Phoenix quick question....if a requirment is the desire to quit drinking, don't you think that allowing someone that is drunk in a meeting is kind of contradictive? I mean, are they really showing a desire to quit? Yes, they got off their ass to go to the meeting, true, but they could wait until they sober up and then show their desire. How I seee it, that is just plain rude.
"And next to the man with a burning desire to quit, with only two days sober, sits down next to him a drunk man with alcohol on his breath." I feel bad for that guy.
Ohhhh but that man had a desire to quit so if he relapsed because of that then he really had no desire to quit.....so if I was a crackhead with two days sober and some other crackhead passed a crackpipe to me, I would have the courage to say no? Possibly, but the point is, aallowing someone who is drunk into a meeting, brings nothing theraputic.
All I know is that I haven't been to a meeting where you are allowed in to be intoxicated at a meeting, last week a girl was booted out because she was 60 DAYS SOBER FROM ALCOHOL!! Oh yes, but she had smoked a big ol joint before heading in. She was not obnoxious, but I think we all know how somebody looks when they are stoned, and when they are drunk.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: pacific beach,ca
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Not only that , but at open AA meeting anyone and everyone is welcomed to attend,no requirements,no pressure,I know of many people who went to open meetings with a freind who had a problem,and ended up finding out that they were one of us,and getting sober.
And even if they aren't one of us,and I "quote"
Foreward To First Edition pg.xiii,Third Edition
"And besides, we are sure that our way of living has its advantages for all. "
And even if they aren't one of us,and I "quote"
Foreward To First Edition pg.xiii,Third Edition
"And besides, we are sure that our way of living has its advantages for all. "
Member
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Riverside, Ca.
Posts: 388
I attend some meetings at clubhouses, and have seen people drunk at times in the meetings, we have no problem with it in this area, every group can take a group concience and set there own rules, I guess thats why we see the way groups differ so much.
I've also been on 12 step calls were we worked with wet drunks, and took them to meetings, or had our own meeting, this is what A.A. is about, and why we have the traditions to guide us.
I've also been on 12 step calls were we worked with wet drunks, and took them to meetings, or had our own meeting, this is what A.A. is about, and why we have the traditions to guide us.
But Very, Very Bruisable...
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Palm Springs, Ca.
Posts: 548
I have been to literally hundreds of meetings where people who were intoxicated were welcome. If they began to act out or disrupt the meeting, they would be asked to leave, but it was always done with love.
I remember a very big speaker meeting with a circuit speaker of over 40 years named Ron. A drunk was walking around the back of the room, bobbing and weaving. He eventually ended up at the foot of the podium.
Some members of the meeting got up to remove the man and Ron told them to sit down. He explained that we were here for that man, not to have a "pretty" meeting.
When we start excluding drunks from AA meetings we may as well be in a Bridge Club...
I remember a very big speaker meeting with a circuit speaker of over 40 years named Ron. A drunk was walking around the back of the room, bobbing and weaving. He eventually ended up at the foot of the podium.
Some members of the meeting got up to remove the man and Ron told them to sit down. He explained that we were here for that man, not to have a "pretty" meeting.
When we start excluding drunks from AA meetings we may as well be in a Bridge Club...
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Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Dreaming Summer
Posts: 821
Originally posted by justaround
Hmmm...I bellieve that the homegroup I attend does not accept someone who is admittedly drunk or drinking in the group. They usually are told to sober up, leave, and that in a couple hours there is another meeting! I don't believe there has been a single meeting I have been to where someone was allowed to be drunk, high on junk, or stoned at the time. What they do after the meeting is their choice..
Hmmm...I bellieve that the homegroup I attend does not accept someone who is admittedly drunk or drinking in the group. They usually are told to sober up, leave, and that in a couple hours there is another meeting! I don't believe there has been a single meeting I have been to where someone was allowed to be drunk, high on junk, or stoned at the time. What they do after the meeting is their choice..
Originally posted by justaround
And Phoenix quick question....if a requirment is the desire to quit drinking, don't you think that allowing someone that is drunk in a meeting is kind of contradictive? I mean, are they really showing a desire to quit? Yes, they got off their ass to go to the meeting, true, but they could wait until they sober up and then show their desire. How I seee it, that is just plain rude.
And Phoenix quick question....if a requirment is the desire to quit drinking, don't you think that allowing someone that is drunk in a meeting is kind of contradictive? I mean, are they really showing a desire to quit? Yes, they got off their ass to go to the meeting, true, but they could wait until they sober up and then show their desire. How I seee it, that is just plain rude.
And yes...with treatment centers and all that today,many people are physically clean/sober before they hit their first meetings.But it isn't a requirement.If a group chooses to kick people out of meetings that is a reflection on that group only...not on AA or NA as a whole.
Tradition 4:Each group should be autonomous except in matters affecting other groups or AA as a whole.
That means groups run themselves.But hopefully the Traditions guide them.
Tradition 5:Each group has but one primary purpose-to carry it's message to the alcoholic who still suffers. (italics are mine)
Now how are you gonna carry the message if you won't let them in the door??? You might want to attend a variety of meetings...maybe some around skid row and the soup kitchens,where people don't always have the luxury of treatment facilities and they get sober the old fashioned way.It's a real eye opener.Might open your heart as well.
phoenix
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Join Date: Jan 2003
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Originally posted by justaround
Ohhhh but that man had a desire to quit so if he relapsed because of that then he really had no desire to quit.....so if I was a crackhead with two days sober and some other crackhead passed a crackpipe to me, I would have the courage to say no? Possibly, but the point is, aallowing someone who is drunk into a meeting, brings nothing theraputic.
Ohhhh but that man had a desire to quit so if he relapsed because of that then he really had no desire to quit.....so if I was a crackhead with two days sober and some other crackhead passed a crackpipe to me, I would have the courage to say no? Possibly, but the point is, aallowing someone who is drunk into a meeting, brings nothing theraputic.
Oh....and if letting drunks into meetingss wasn't therapeutic I doubt that AA would still be around
phoenix
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Our Job is not to judge the size of desire......our job is to coddle the flame........( and I am quoting from recovery literature here).
Our meeting format allows all addicts free admittance to our meetings........we simply ask them not to share if they are drunk and most of them are always willing to comply.
In six years of constant meeting attendance I have only witnessed a drunk being removed from the rooms once for being disruptive.
Peter.
Our meeting format allows all addicts free admittance to our meetings........we simply ask them not to share if they are drunk and most of them are always willing to comply.
In six years of constant meeting attendance I have only witnessed a drunk being removed from the rooms once for being disruptive.
Peter.
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Hmmm..Phoenix sounds like you are holding some sort of resentment against me..am I correct? I mean, did you really have to quote everything I said and backlash at it, when you could have simply said, "hey, there are many other meetings out there, maybe its just the one that you attend like that, I have never been to a meeting like that because it is immoral and what not." I would have said, and still am, cool. I should check some others out.
By the way, I meant backlashing when you said "maybe you can open your heart". Hey, my heart is open. Haha, it sounds as if you may have some issues, you jumped my ass with comments right and left and ended by saying that my heart wasn't open! How about you go and quote something out of what I said that makes it look as if I have no heart, no really, I would like to know. I don't hold resentments, I would just like to know my flaws. Hmmmm...but that's not my problem. A psycholgist or maybe therapy might help with that. And how is it that you HAPPEN to know that I haven't been down to dirty downtown meetings? Have you been to downtown Phoenix Arizona?? Not a very pleasent place, seeing that it is the meth capital of the world and all, and in the top ten states with drinking problems, but I'M NOT JUDGING, I'm JUST SAYING. So I kindly ask you not to judge me.
Isn't this a message board about opinions? Come on, your a moderator correct? You should know.
Have a nice day
By the way, I meant backlashing when you said "maybe you can open your heart". Hey, my heart is open. Haha, it sounds as if you may have some issues, you jumped my ass with comments right and left and ended by saying that my heart wasn't open! How about you go and quote something out of what I said that makes it look as if I have no heart, no really, I would like to know. I don't hold resentments, I would just like to know my flaws. Hmmmm...but that's not my problem. A psycholgist or maybe therapy might help with that. And how is it that you HAPPEN to know that I haven't been down to dirty downtown meetings? Have you been to downtown Phoenix Arizona?? Not a very pleasent place, seeing that it is the meth capital of the world and all, and in the top ten states with drinking problems, but I'M NOT JUDGING, I'm JUST SAYING. So I kindly ask you not to judge me.
Isn't this a message board about opinions? Come on, your a moderator correct? You should know.
Have a nice day
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Peter, those are the words that I was trying to get at...how I "personally" feel. Just as long as they don't share. I'm sure there have been many under the influence at meetings I have attended and have not known. That's okay. Yes, acting out should be a reason to be kicked out, I BELIEVE. But that's just me. I'm just stating my beliefs. Phoenix responded as if I was attacking her...but that is cool. Everybody is entitled to their freedom correct?
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Originally posted by justaround
Peter, those are the words that I was trying to get at...how I "personally" feel. Just as long as they don't share. I'm sure there have been many under the influence at meetings I have attended and have not known. That's okay. Yes, acting out should be a reason to be kicked out, I BELIEVE. But that's just me. I'm just stating my beliefs. Phoenix responded as if I was attacking her...but that is cool. Everybody is entitled to their freedom correct?
Peter, those are the words that I was trying to get at...how I "personally" feel. Just as long as they don't share. I'm sure there have been many under the influence at meetings I have attended and have not known. That's okay. Yes, acting out should be a reason to be kicked out, I BELIEVE. But that's just me. I'm just stating my beliefs. Phoenix responded as if I was attacking her...but that is cool. Everybody is entitled to their freedom correct?
No...I did not respond as if anyone was attacking me.You stated that being sober was a requirement for attending meetings.I simply clarified that this is not universal,nor is it a tradition.
For the record,you weren't just stating your feelings.You said that being sober is a requirement for attending meetings.You presented that as a fact....not as an opinion. For the benefit of the newcomer ,I tried to clear up what seemed like a misconception on your part.You chose to take it personally.
And you went off on a tangent about how rude it is for drunks to come to meetings.You talked about kicking people out of meetings for looking like they might be high.Your attitude seemed pretty intolerant to me.So I suggested that you might want to expand your horizons and open your heart.And you seem to have taken a great deal of offense to that.Again,that was your choice.
The truth is that AA is for drunks...even for those who might need a couple of drinks to find the courage to get to that first meeting.Sometimes that foggy headed guy in the back row with three days stubble on his chin, and whiskey on his breath is the most important guy in the room. Maybe some think it's because he needs us,but I gotta remember it's really because we need him.
I'm not gonna stand at the door and turn him away.Nor will I stand quietly by while someone else does it.There but for the grace of God go I.
phoenix
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Originally posted by justaround
Hmmm..Phoenix sounds like you are holding some sort of resentment against me..am I correct? I mean, did you really have to quote everything I said and backlash at it, when you could have simply said, "hey, there are many other meetings out there, maybe its just the one that you attend like that, I have never been to a meeting like that because it is immoral and what not." I would have said, and still am, cool. I should check some others out.
Hmmm..Phoenix sounds like you are holding some sort of resentment against me..am I correct? I mean, did you really have to quote everything I said and backlash at it, when you could have simply said, "hey, there are many other meetings out there, maybe its just the one that you attend like that, I have never been to a meeting like that because it is immoral and what not." I would have said, and still am, cool. I should check some others out.
Originally posted by justaround
By the way, I meant backlashing when you said "maybe you can open your heart". Hey, my heart is open. Haha, it sounds as if you may have some issues, you jumped my ass with comments right and left and ended by saying that my heart wasn't open! How about you go and quote something out of what I said that makes it look as if I have no heart, no really, I would like to know. I don't hold resentments, I would just like to know my flaws. Hmmmm...but that's not my problem. A psycholgist or maybe therapy might help with that. And how is it that you HAPPEN to know that I haven't been down to dirty downtown meetings? Have you been to downtown Phoenix Arizona?? Not a very pleasent place, seeing that it is the meth capital of the world and all, and in the top ten states with drinking problems, but I'M NOT JUDGING, I'm JUST SAYING. So I kindly ask you not to judge me.
Isn't this a message board about opinions? Come on, your a moderator correct? You should know. Have a nice day
By the way, I meant backlashing when you said "maybe you can open your heart". Hey, my heart is open. Haha, it sounds as if you may have some issues, you jumped my ass with comments right and left and ended by saying that my heart wasn't open! How about you go and quote something out of what I said that makes it look as if I have no heart, no really, I would like to know. I don't hold resentments, I would just like to know my flaws. Hmmmm...but that's not my problem. A psycholgist or maybe therapy might help with that. And how is it that you HAPPEN to know that I haven't been down to dirty downtown meetings? Have you been to downtown Phoenix Arizona?? Not a very pleasent place, seeing that it is the meth capital of the world and all, and in the top ten states with drinking problems, but I'M NOT JUDGING, I'm JUST SAYING. So I kindly ask you not to judge me.
Isn't this a message board about opinions? Come on, your a moderator correct? You should know.
Have a nice day Think I was jumping your ass? Not even close....unless a simple suggestion counts as jumping on someone.Why did that one suggestion bother you so much?
Yup...I've been to Phoenix.And if you've been to the skid row meetings then you know people don't get kicked out for being intoxicated.Meetings are for people who need them.
I'd like to suggest that you calm down a bit....and that's just a suggestion
phoenix
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