Relapse-54 days out the window
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: scottsdale az
Posts: 118
Relapse-54 days out the window
Funny how I saw this one coming. This last week I had been thinking too much about drinking and paying less attention to my outpatient program. I knew what I was doing wrong though, I stopped the meetings and drifted away from my spirituality. I am having a hard time keeping my higher power in my life, there is so much stress that I can't keep up with it. I am still going to continue to stay sober, I figure why dwell on it and go down the hole when you can just get back up and try again.
One good thing that came out of this though was that the relapse was nothing of what I thought it would be. My relapse was two beers. I didn't even finish the second one. I had no desire to get that buzz, in fact I started to feel more sick than a buzz of any kind. The two beers were spread out within a two hour interval and I waited a couple hours to drive home so I wasn't acting out of control. It didn't start me up thinking about using those street drugs either. I have no desire to drink today. The only thing that worries me is thatat one point I thought to myself, hmmmm if I can do this maybe I'm not a true alcoholic, I've only been drinking strong for 2 1/2 years anyway. Maybe it's just the drugs. Ya right. I abuse chemicals end of story.
Well, 54 days are up. Hopefully I stick to the right path
One good thing that came out of this though was that the relapse was nothing of what I thought it would be. My relapse was two beers. I didn't even finish the second one. I had no desire to get that buzz, in fact I started to feel more sick than a buzz of any kind. The two beers were spread out within a two hour interval and I waited a couple hours to drive home so I wasn't acting out of control. It didn't start me up thinking about using those street drugs either. I have no desire to drink today. The only thing that worries me is thatat one point I thought to myself, hmmmm if I can do this maybe I'm not a true alcoholic, I've only been drinking strong for 2 1/2 years anyway. Maybe it's just the drugs. Ya right. I abuse chemicals end of story.
Well, 54 days are up. Hopefully I stick to the right path
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Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Bear DE
Posts: 31
Sorry to hear about your stumble. It happens to a lot of us. The important thing is to try to learn something from it, so that maybe it won't happen next time.
One of the hardest times for me was when I was about six months out. No real problems. I occasionally bucked the program and didn't care for the direction my sponsor was taking me. It just seemed too easy. Then I started thinking (actually not me, the evil little voice we all have) "maybe I'm not really an alcoholic." Just that. Not "let's party". Not "see we showed everyone." Not " it wouldn't hurt to try one." Just that I wasn't an alcoholic.
I'm what they describe as a "high bottom" drunk. I didn't go through a lot of the visible wear and tear some alcoholics do (i.e. arrests, divorce, car wrecks etc). That voice played on that and tried to separate me from the people in the rooms saying "See you're not like them." I struggled with it for awhile but then I asked my HP for help and turned my back on it.
I thought even if I'm not an alcoholic - what I am really losing? It gives me hangovers, upset stomachs, costs a lot of money and generally makes act like a complete idiot.
If you're serious about staying away from drinking, I would recommend getting some structure in your life in the form of meetings and a sponsor if you don't have one. Sponsors can be a real pain but they're supposed to be to keep you honest.
Working on a relationship with your HP is necessary too, but some people pick that up faster than others.
I wish you the best of luck and God Bless.
One of the hardest times for me was when I was about six months out. No real problems. I occasionally bucked the program and didn't care for the direction my sponsor was taking me. It just seemed too easy. Then I started thinking (actually not me, the evil little voice we all have) "maybe I'm not really an alcoholic." Just that. Not "let's party". Not "see we showed everyone." Not " it wouldn't hurt to try one." Just that I wasn't an alcoholic.
I'm what they describe as a "high bottom" drunk. I didn't go through a lot of the visible wear and tear some alcoholics do (i.e. arrests, divorce, car wrecks etc). That voice played on that and tried to separate me from the people in the rooms saying "See you're not like them." I struggled with it for awhile but then I asked my HP for help and turned my back on it.
I thought even if I'm not an alcoholic - what I am really losing? It gives me hangovers, upset stomachs, costs a lot of money and generally makes act like a complete idiot.
If you're serious about staying away from drinking, I would recommend getting some structure in your life in the form of meetings and a sponsor if you don't have one. Sponsors can be a real pain but they're supposed to be to keep you honest.
Working on a relationship with your HP is necessary too, but some people pick that up faster than others.
I wish you the best of luck and God Bless.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Riverside, Ca.
Posts: 388
justaround
Im sorry to hear of your setback, but hopefully we learn from these,
I know that there was a time that I manged to stay sober, without really working a program yet, these were those shaky first few months,
I would like to share what was shared with me, try to do it different this time, I am sure that it is my higher power that keeps me sober, it just took a while to see it.
Im sorry to hear of your setback, but hopefully we learn from these,
I know that there was a time that I manged to stay sober, without really working a program yet, these were those shaky first few months,
I would like to share what was shared with me, try to do it different this time, I am sure that it is my higher power that keeps me sober, it just took a while to see it.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: scottsdale az
Posts: 118
But what if I don't get hangovers, upset stomachs, spend ANY money on it, or act like a complete idiot? This voice in my head is telling me that I can stick to two beers a night if I even want to drink at all. I want to believe it but know I shouldn't. What IF I really CAN drink like a normal person?? I'm going against all my morals right now, what a shame. All I know is that what I have basically learned in the programs is that a true alcoholic will flip after that first sip and keep going until they get drunk or pass out. I seem not to, but that was just one night. I am a "high bottom" as well, maybe the reason why I think this way right now. I keep thinking, "well it was always the drugs that got you in trouble, it was the drugs that got you into rehab, out of relationships." The alcohol never got me into trouble. I have never in my life had more than eight drinks before.
Jezzz, well I sound a fool...thinking I'm not an alcoholic. I'm just angry because I saw my doctor after straining my muscle and not getting anything for it, I asked for something non-narcotic , non-addictive like a muscle relaxor or something, but got nothing. My knee hurts like a bitch too, I can barely walk. He told me to go to physical therapy. I guess that's my addict personality, wanting everything instant. Holding a resentment and self-pity at the same time.
I'm going to not drink tonight, that's all I can let myself know right now
Jezzz, well I sound a fool...thinking I'm not an alcoholic. I'm just angry because I saw my doctor after straining my muscle and not getting anything for it, I asked for something non-narcotic , non-addictive like a muscle relaxor or something, but got nothing. My knee hurts like a bitch too, I can barely walk. He told me to go to physical therapy. I guess that's my addict personality, wanting everything instant. Holding a resentment and self-pity at the same time.
I'm going to not drink tonight, that's all I can let myself know right now
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Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Bear DE
Posts: 31
It's good to hear you working through this. Arguing with that voice by yourself can be dangerous, but getting it out there in the company of others can be good.
As far as addiction is concerned, the visible signs (hangovers, cost etc.) differ for everyone. Some of us have a lot, some of them have few or none. The thing alcoholics share is the inability to control our drinking once we start.
That's not to mean that we get pickled every time we pick up. I've had instances where I was able to 'control' myself and only have a couple from time to time.
Only you can decide whether you have the addiction, regardless of what me or anyone else may tell you. You have to be the judge. If you are able to drink responsibly, my hat is off to you.
I will say that in your posts, you seem conflicted about this.
I encourage you to work through this and if you're still in doubt, take a suggestion from the Big Book and try some more controlled drinking. The proof will be in the pudding.
I wish you the best of luck and God bless.
As far as addiction is concerned, the visible signs (hangovers, cost etc.) differ for everyone. Some of us have a lot, some of them have few or none. The thing alcoholics share is the inability to control our drinking once we start.
That's not to mean that we get pickled every time we pick up. I've had instances where I was able to 'control' myself and only have a couple from time to time.
Only you can decide whether you have the addiction, regardless of what me or anyone else may tell you. You have to be the judge. If you are able to drink responsibly, my hat is off to you.
I will say that in your posts, you seem conflicted about this.
I encourage you to work through this and if you're still in doubt, take a suggestion from the Big Book and try some more controlled drinking. The proof will be in the pudding.
I wish you the best of luck and God bless.
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Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: pacific beach,ca
Posts: 42
I'm with Phil
try this 2 drinks no more on less every day for thirty days,if you can pull that off,then you probably ain't got what we got,also read from the middle of pg. 43 through the end of the capter.If you don't have a BB handy heres a link for ya
http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~clyde/BillW/
Cheers!
try this 2 drinks no more on less every day for thirty days,if you can pull that off,then you probably ain't got what we got,also read from the middle of pg. 43 through the end of the capter.If you don't have a BB handy heres a link for ya
http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~clyde/BillW/
Cheers!
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: scottsdale az
Posts: 118
Thank you for the advice everyone. I didn't drink today, I am at my house without an alcoholic beverage in sight. I am not going to the bars neither...I can't! Not old enough! You know, it's so strange how this disease works, right now I feel like a million bucks, I haven't felt this way since before the first time I ever used. At 5:30 I was planning out my night to go and try to just have another two beers, no more, no less, with a friend. I was pissed off at my doctor and resentful. To be honest, for a second, crushing up a Ritalin and snorting it crossed my mind. I blew that idea off quick though. As the evening rolled along, everything just went into place, and I had NO desire to drink...and if this isn't bizarre, my mind was trying to get my ass up to drink. I didn't need to fight it, I just really didn't want to. I was actually able to sequence out what I would get out of using again, all paths lead to a dead end. I know that these days are far and few as a recovering alcoholic/addict. It's like this disease made me manic depressive. Hopefully this day will carry on to tomorrow morning, if not, well I'm ready. I won't lie, in the very back of my head is this bitch ass demon getting me to try the two beer a day thing and it will get a little closer tomorrow. All I can say is that as of right now I am happy because I have nothing to be worried about, not tomorrow, not yesterday. One day at a time? No, for me it's one minute at a time. SO as of today I am one day sober
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Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Austin TX
Posts: 55
justaround
Just wanted to let you know that your experience is not at all unusual here. Many there are who have relapsed, and in every case, when they are honest with themselves, they cannot really put a finger on why they really relapsed.
In the end, they relapsed, as you have identified within yourself already, because of one simple fact, they failed to enlarge their spiritual life, they failed to give themselves fully to this program of recovery.
Remember this is a disease. Perhaps You relapsed because you are an adict / alcoholic. If true, There is absolutely nothing personal about it, as the disaese does not discriminate amongst anyone, regardless of length of sobriety, age, or stage of progression of the disease.
__________________________________________________ __
All I know is that what I have basically learned in the programs is that a true alcoholic will flip after that first sip and keep going until they get drunk or pass out.
__________________________________________________ __
I wanted to offer a suggestion and clarification here that may prove helpful. The Doctor's Opinion does not support what you have learned up to this point in recovery.
When an Alcoholic / Adict takes any amount of alcohol into his system, it generates the phenomenon of craving within the body, which feeds the already existing obsession to drink or use in the mind.
In my experience, I have found this to be very true. At one point in early sobriety, I got the idea in my head that I could cook with wine, that the alcohol content would be burned off in the reduction process.
Once I did, though, I started to get non-stop obsessions to drink, and my body became tense andd shaky, just like it did when I was drinking and hungover. I learned only after the fact that alcohol remains in the prepared meal, which further explains my reaction. The allergy kicked in with a vengence.
Your words:
"This voice in my head is telling me that I can stick to two beers a night if I even want to drink at all. I want to believe it but know I shouldn't. What IF I really CAN drink like a normal person??"
Your experience would seem to confirm this information out of the book of alcoholics anonymous. Remember also that the great obsession of all alcoholics / adicts is that one day, they will be able to drink / use like normal people. It proves the downfall off each and every one in the end.
The fact is that this is a lie. I don't much care for trite phrases, but "Once an alcoholic, always an alcoholic" definitely applies.
__________________________________________________ __
I seem not to, but that was just one night. I am a "high bottom" as well, maybe the reason why I think this way right now.
__________________________________________________ __
I, too, was what is refered to a high bottom drunk when I came to AA. I had only been drinking heavily and consistently for a little over a year, and had not lost my job, my home, or my vehicle as a result of my drinking.
My sponsor had to truly hammer into my head through various exercises and repetition the facts of the disease, that no matter how long or how much a person consumes, the disease itself is progressive, making the fact that though these things had not happened already, they "YET" might. In short, he told me the disease is a disease of yets.
Even that wasn't enough, but this below was:
BB Pg 21:
" But what about the real alcoholic? He may start off as a moderate drinker; he may or may not become a continuous hard drinker, but at some stage of his drinking career he begins to loose all control of his liquor consumption, once he starts to drink."
BB PG 24:
"We are unable, at certain times, to bring into our consciousness with sufficient force the memory of the suffering and humiliation of even a week or a month ago. We are without defense against the first drink."
These two passages, plus an honest reflection of my experience, not only scared me, but convinced me that I am an alcoholic. It was an experience that occured in my mind more than my experience, which was the key for this high bottom drunk.
I offer these words not in any way as a diagnosis of you. Perhaps the drinking test is appropriate for you to see for yourself; however, as I read your posts, it reminded me of myself alot, and I wanted to share with you my experiencce plus some pertinent facts of the disease for you to use as you wish.
Blessings
In the end, they relapsed, as you have identified within yourself already, because of one simple fact, they failed to enlarge their spiritual life, they failed to give themselves fully to this program of recovery.
Remember this is a disease. Perhaps You relapsed because you are an adict / alcoholic. If true, There is absolutely nothing personal about it, as the disaese does not discriminate amongst anyone, regardless of length of sobriety, age, or stage of progression of the disease.
__________________________________________________ __
All I know is that what I have basically learned in the programs is that a true alcoholic will flip after that first sip and keep going until they get drunk or pass out.
__________________________________________________ __
I wanted to offer a suggestion and clarification here that may prove helpful. The Doctor's Opinion does not support what you have learned up to this point in recovery.
When an Alcoholic / Adict takes any amount of alcohol into his system, it generates the phenomenon of craving within the body, which feeds the already existing obsession to drink or use in the mind.
In my experience, I have found this to be very true. At one point in early sobriety, I got the idea in my head that I could cook with wine, that the alcohol content would be burned off in the reduction process.
Once I did, though, I started to get non-stop obsessions to drink, and my body became tense andd shaky, just like it did when I was drinking and hungover. I learned only after the fact that alcohol remains in the prepared meal, which further explains my reaction. The allergy kicked in with a vengence.
Your words:
"This voice in my head is telling me that I can stick to two beers a night if I even want to drink at all. I want to believe it but know I shouldn't. What IF I really CAN drink like a normal person??"
Your experience would seem to confirm this information out of the book of alcoholics anonymous. Remember also that the great obsession of all alcoholics / adicts is that one day, they will be able to drink / use like normal people. It proves the downfall off each and every one in the end.
The fact is that this is a lie. I don't much care for trite phrases, but "Once an alcoholic, always an alcoholic" definitely applies.
__________________________________________________ __
I seem not to, but that was just one night. I am a "high bottom" as well, maybe the reason why I think this way right now.
__________________________________________________ __
I, too, was what is refered to a high bottom drunk when I came to AA. I had only been drinking heavily and consistently for a little over a year, and had not lost my job, my home, or my vehicle as a result of my drinking.
My sponsor had to truly hammer into my head through various exercises and repetition the facts of the disease, that no matter how long or how much a person consumes, the disease itself is progressive, making the fact that though these things had not happened already, they "YET" might. In short, he told me the disease is a disease of yets.
Even that wasn't enough, but this below was:
BB Pg 21:
" But what about the real alcoholic? He may start off as a moderate drinker; he may or may not become a continuous hard drinker, but at some stage of his drinking career he begins to loose all control of his liquor consumption, once he starts to drink."
BB PG 24:
"We are unable, at certain times, to bring into our consciousness with sufficient force the memory of the suffering and humiliation of even a week or a month ago. We are without defense against the first drink."
These two passages, plus an honest reflection of my experience, not only scared me, but convinced me that I am an alcoholic. It was an experience that occured in my mind more than my experience, which was the key for this high bottom drunk.
I offer these words not in any way as a diagnosis of you. Perhaps the drinking test is appropriate for you to see for yourself; however, as I read your posts, it reminded me of myself alot, and I wanted to share with you my experiencce plus some pertinent facts of the disease for you to use as you wish.
Blessings
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Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Berkeley, California
Posts: 40
Relapses are a bummer. I too am struggling with those after going through a recovery program, 8 months sober, 3 months of relapses. I get to almost the 30 days then it happens again. I didn't follow up with the meetings after my recovery program which has everything to do with my relapses I'm sure. Hell, even with finally going to regular meetings the last 7 weeks I'm still hanging on barely. At least I 'keep coming back' now. I wasn't doing that before. I've made connections and friendships in the program, and I'm not going to beat myself up anymore over my relapses. I'm really trying to follow the advice of AA on how to achieve my sobriety, but it ain't easy. If you're too young to go out and buy alcohol, I'm so impressed that you have the insight and maturity to recognize the addictive behaviour in yourself. Please don't listen to the little voice that tells you that 2 beers may be ok. I think you know already what a load of BS that it. If you were my kid I'd be really proud of you. I'm still in awe of your insight at this age.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Little Voices
Sounds like the Committee in your head is running their meetings in to overtime.
Those b**tards in my committee are ruthless, and will convince me if I let them that I can drink like a gentleman, and that everyone will take their hats off to me. They will complicate this simple program, and will turn mountains into molehills. That I'm diferent than everyone else in this program, because no one has the problems like I do, the wife I do, the Job I do etc..
It's all crap, I'm a textbook Alcoholic and drug addict. I finally got tired of relapse after relapse, and tired of being one of those who would not give themselves to this simple program.
simple, simple, simple.
but why is it so hard?
Ask some people at your meetings, and search the message boards about the committee, you will find a lot of suggestions that you may find usefull.
The only way that you fail in recovery, is if you quit trying
Those b**tards in my committee are ruthless, and will convince me if I let them that I can drink like a gentleman, and that everyone will take their hats off to me. They will complicate this simple program, and will turn mountains into molehills. That I'm diferent than everyone else in this program, because no one has the problems like I do, the wife I do, the Job I do etc..
It's all crap, I'm a textbook Alcoholic and drug addict. I finally got tired of relapse after relapse, and tired of being one of those who would not give themselves to this simple program.
simple, simple, simple.
but why is it so hard?
Ask some people at your meetings, and search the message boards about the committee, you will find a lot of suggestions that you may find usefull.
The only way that you fail in recovery, is if you quit trying
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Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: pacific beach,ca
Posts: 42
OK,
I'm going to do my best to try and be of maximum service here.
The whole point of the controlled drinking experience is this,and I will interspers it with qoutes from the BB
The whole concept of recovey must be based on the truth of your own personal experience,your own personal EXPERIENCE,not what you think about the way or the why of it,those questions are useless,not how you feel about it.I repeat your recovery MUST be based on the TRUTH of your own personal EXPERIENCE
So,if you can make a decision to have 2 drinks a day no more no less for thirty day and accomplish such a feat,then you are probably not alcoholic,however you may just be neurotic and there is help for that as well.
From the Dr.'s Opinion;
Men and women drink essentially because they like the effect produced by alcohol. The sensation is so elusive that, while they admit it is injurious, they cannot after a time differentiate the true from the false. To them, their alcoholic life seems the only normal one. They are restless, irritable and discontented, unless they can again experience
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the sense of ease and comfort which comes at once by taking a few drinks -- drinks which they see others taking with impunity. After they have succumbed to the desire again, as so many do, and the phenomenon of craving develops, they pass through the well-known stages of a spree, emerging remorseful, with a firm resolution not to drink again. This is repeated over and over, and unless this person can experience an entire psychic change there is very little hope of his recovery
The whole idea here is to ask yourself,experientially does this happen to me,whan I take a drink,do I develop a craving for more alcohol,if this occurs you have aphysical allergy that there is no know cure for.{It is progressive ,chronic and fatal,{meaning it gets worse over time and it will kill you}THe only answer we have is total abstinence.
Now if you combine this physical condition with the mental obsession,that is a thought which overcomes all others to take a drink,you got trouble
If you add to these two things to the spiritual maldy described on pg. 52 in the BB
"We were having trouble with personal relationships, we couldn't control our emotional natures, we were a prey to misery and depression, we couldn't make a living, we had a feeling of uselessness, we were full of fear, we were unhappy, we couldn't seem to be of real help to other people"
Then you are in a mess of trouble,encouraging ,isn't it!
See,the real problem,beleive it or not is the spiritual malady,the drugs the booze the sex the food the gambling,whatever are just symptoms,but for sure if you have the mental obsessin and the physical allergy combined with the spiritual malady, the symptoms will kill you.
And lastly if we can identify the problem based on our own experience,THEN we can apply the solution,'cuz we do have a solution.
I know that's alot, but,if you be one of us we can and want to help
And all you have to do is be Willing,Honest and Open-minded,WHO?Yep you.
I'm going to do my best to try and be of maximum service here.
The whole point of the controlled drinking experience is this,and I will interspers it with qoutes from the BB
The whole concept of recovey must be based on the truth of your own personal experience,your own personal EXPERIENCE,not what you think about the way or the why of it,those questions are useless,not how you feel about it.I repeat your recovery MUST be based on the TRUTH of your own personal EXPERIENCE
So,if you can make a decision to have 2 drinks a day no more no less for thirty day and accomplish such a feat,then you are probably not alcoholic,however you may just be neurotic and there is help for that as well.
From the Dr.'s Opinion;
Men and women drink essentially because they like the effect produced by alcohol. The sensation is so elusive that, while they admit it is injurious, they cannot after a time differentiate the true from the false. To them, their alcoholic life seems the only normal one. They are restless, irritable and discontented, unless they can again experience
Page xxvi
the sense of ease and comfort which comes at once by taking a few drinks -- drinks which they see others taking with impunity. After they have succumbed to the desire again, as so many do, and the phenomenon of craving develops, they pass through the well-known stages of a spree, emerging remorseful, with a firm resolution not to drink again. This is repeated over and over, and unless this person can experience an entire psychic change there is very little hope of his recovery
The whole idea here is to ask yourself,experientially does this happen to me,whan I take a drink,do I develop a craving for more alcohol,if this occurs you have aphysical allergy that there is no know cure for.{It is progressive ,chronic and fatal,{meaning it gets worse over time and it will kill you}THe only answer we have is total abstinence.
Now if you combine this physical condition with the mental obsession,that is a thought which overcomes all others to take a drink,you got trouble
If you add to these two things to the spiritual maldy described on pg. 52 in the BB
"We were having trouble with personal relationships, we couldn't control our emotional natures, we were a prey to misery and depression, we couldn't make a living, we had a feeling of uselessness, we were full of fear, we were unhappy, we couldn't seem to be of real help to other people"
Then you are in a mess of trouble,encouraging ,isn't it!
See,the real problem,beleive it or not is the spiritual malady,the drugs the booze the sex the food the gambling,whatever are just symptoms,but for sure if you have the mental obsessin and the physical allergy combined with the spiritual malady, the symptoms will kill you.
And lastly if we can identify the problem based on our own experience,THEN we can apply the solution,'cuz we do have a solution.
I know that's alot, but,if you be one of us we can and want to help
And all you have to do is be Willing,Honest and Open-minded,WHO?Yep you.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: scottsdale az
Posts: 118
Thank you everybody for the information and advice. I'm glad I didn't drink yesterday, mostly for the reason that alcohol isn't good for anyone in the first place. Here's the thing, when I relapsed I drank only two beers and once I finished that second beer I had no desire at all to go any further. I haven't obsessed about it either....yet. I didn't drink the next day for the program, but for myself. Another oddity, I enjoyed the beer, insteed of blasting one down in a few minutes, I sipped out of it for a good hour. Now all this does is confuse me. I AM chemically dependent, whether it be alcohol or drugs. I have been using since age 15 but didn't start drinking until a couple years ago, well heavily. The symptoms I experienced from that one sitauation go against the definition of a true alcoholic according to the BIg Book which just lets those voices yell out "YOU CAN CONTROL YOURSELF" even louder. The thing is that I have to be an alcoholic and I don't need the Big Book to know that. If I abuse one chemical and become dependent upon it, I will another. If I will use anything from hallucinigenics to opiates to stimulants to benzodiazepines to THC to this and that, so why wouldn't I become addicted to alcohol? Common sense. I just don't like having that sense that keeps me from ignoring that fact. Why was I only able to have two drinks??
HMph, whiskeyquicker, I sure hope I'm just neurotic insteed of insane!! No, just joking, I am insane, as alcoholics, we all are. I wish that I was only neurotic, I was at a time, before I became addicted, and only mood stabilizers were needed for that!
Well thanks for all the words, they were very helpful. It always makes me feel better knowing that others care. Right now I am sober, RIGHT ON!
HMph, whiskeyquicker, I sure hope I'm just neurotic insteed of insane!! No, just joking, I am insane, as alcoholics, we all are. I wish that I was only neurotic, I was at a time, before I became addicted, and only mood stabilizers were needed for that!
Well thanks for all the words, they were very helpful. It always makes me feel better knowing that others care. Right now I am sober, RIGHT ON!
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Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: pacific beach,ca
Posts: 42
WOW! Do you have a degree in Pharmacology, and or a medical degree with a specialty in Chemical Depenedncy
,because you certainly sound like you have all the answers.
I'm impressed!
Cheers!
All joking aside Go ahead and just go to some meetings and find a sponser who will help you work the steps,ask God ,whether you believe in God or not to keep you sober today.
Just start there,and if you can at all help it,try not to think too much,I know that's my biggest problem. Sometimes I have to realize I cannot be helpful to all people,but God will show me how to take a kindly and loving veiw of each and everyone,'cuz I sure can't do it on my own
,because you certainly sound like you have all the answers.
I'm impressed!
Cheers!
All joking aside Go ahead and just go to some meetings and find a sponser who will help you work the steps,ask God ,whether you believe in God or not to keep you sober today.
Just start there,and if you can at all help it,try not to think too much,I know that's my biggest problem. Sometimes I have to realize I cannot be helpful to all people,but God will show me how to take a kindly and loving veiw of each and everyone,'cuz I sure can't do it on my own
But Very, Very Bruisable...
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Palm Springs, Ca.
Posts: 548
Relapse:
A return to prior symptoms after a measurable period of recovery.
After reading that over, and over, and over I had to fully admit to myself that I, in fact, never had a relapse. What I had done was make a concious decision to drink/drug. Again, and again.
Once I made that admission and took responsibility for my actions rather than using a nice, clean clinical term like relpase, great things began to happen.
Once I took responsibility for my drinking and using, I could begin taking responsibility for my own recovery.
A return to prior symptoms after a measurable period of recovery.
After reading that over, and over, and over I had to fully admit to myself that I, in fact, never had a relapse. What I had done was make a concious decision to drink/drug. Again, and again.
Once I made that admission and took responsibility for my actions rather than using a nice, clean clinical term like relpase, great things began to happen.
Once I took responsibility for my drinking and using, I could begin taking responsibility for my own recovery.
Supply Manager
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Cleaverville
Posts: 2,898
Hi,
I am the mother of a 28 year old alcoholic and whatever is available drug abuser and I just had a front row seat to his relapse. He completed a 90 day program and came to our home after he was released (for the first time in many years). He was doing well but one night his eyes were a bit glassy. Several days went by and again his eyes were a bit glassy and he went to bed early. This happened a few more times, always with several days in between so I gave him a time to move out. He had already started hanging with an old "friend" so he moved in there. The friend sells pot. While he was there my son crushed up a Zoloft and snorted it and ended up in ER. He continued drinking and smoking pot and one night he "borrowed" the friends truck and now he is in jail for 180 days. It snuck up on him and he knew better and now he is kicking himself in the a**.
I have been in Alanon for a long time and I watched this happen without getting between him and his HP. I learned so much with this and I know that committee was working on him. I hope you ignore it and I hope he does too.
Hugs,
JT
I am the mother of a 28 year old alcoholic and whatever is available drug abuser and I just had a front row seat to his relapse. He completed a 90 day program and came to our home after he was released (for the first time in many years). He was doing well but one night his eyes were a bit glassy. Several days went by and again his eyes were a bit glassy and he went to bed early. This happened a few more times, always with several days in between so I gave him a time to move out. He had already started hanging with an old "friend" so he moved in there. The friend sells pot. While he was there my son crushed up a Zoloft and snorted it and ended up in ER. He continued drinking and smoking pot and one night he "borrowed" the friends truck and now he is in jail for 180 days. It snuck up on him and he knew better and now he is kicking himself in the a**.
I have been in Alanon for a long time and I watched this happen without getting between him and his HP. I learned so much with this and I know that committee was working on him. I hope you ignore it and I hope he does too.
Hugs,
JT
Paused
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: scottsdale az
Posts: 118
You can call it whatever you want, relapse, falling down, picking up again, blah, blah, blah. In the end, I just used again. Anybody who uses again JUST USED AGAIN. We all are at fault for our actions, 30 days sober, 5 years sober....we weren't shoved alcohol down our throat or stuck with a syringe of heroin, it was our choice. Relapse, I believe, is just a term that all addicts will use just because it is easier to say than "I ****** up" or "I picked up again". If someone has 15 years of sobriety, worked all the steps, everyday attended meetings...they have no better an excuse than the 30 day sober relapser. They both DECIDED to use again. They don't have the right to say, well I did all this and that, you STILL used again. If they had been paying attention and getting anything from the meetings and their programs then they just took the hit harder. Relapse cannot pertain to one group of people and not another. If it is to be used in the medical field of addiction it has to mean the same thing. Measurable? So who is to deffine what a measurable time is? Not us addicts. Relapse is not just a term for addiction. SO whatever you want to call it, call it that, but there are more important things to worry about, RECOVERY! We do this for ourselves, not others
Paused
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: pacific beach,ca
Posts: 42
Have ya'll ever read the Big Book,or do just repeastuff you here in meetings? I am not trying to be an *******,but you people are scaring me. You chose to drink?,what on Earth are you
talking about?
Though there is no way of proving it, we believe that early in our drinking careers most of us could have stopped drinking. But the difficulty is that few alcoholics have enough desire to stop while there is yet time.
As we look back, we feel we had gone on drinking many years beyond the point where we could quit on our will power.
But the actual or potential alcoholic, with hardly any exception, will be absolutely unable to stop drinking on the basis of self-knowledge.
pg. 43
Once more: The alcoholic at certain times has no effective mental defense against the first drink. Except in a few cases, neither he nor any other human being can provide such a defense. His defense must come from a Higher Power.
pg.24
The fact is that most alcoholics, for reasons yet obscure, have lost the power of choice in drink. Our so called will power becomes practically nonexistent. We are unable, at certain times, to bring into our consciousness with sufficient force the memory of the suffering and humiliation of even a week or a month ago. We are without defense against the first drink.
If that be the case, you may be suffering from an illness which only a spiritual experience will conquer.
There is a solution. Almost none of us liked the self-searching, the leveling of our pride, the confession of shortcomings which the process requires for its successful consummation. But we saw that it really worked in others, and we had come to believe in the hopelessness and futility of life as we had been living it. When, therefore, we were approached by those in whom the problem had been solved, there was nothing left for us but to pick up the simple kit of spiritual tools laid at out feet. We have found much of heaven and we have been rocketed into a fourth dimension of existence of which we had not even dreamed.
The great fact is just this, and nothing less: That we have had deep and effective spiritual experiences which have revolutionized our whole attitude toward life, toward our fellows and toward God's universe. The central fact of our lives today is the absolute certainty that our Creator has entered into our hearts and lives in a way which is indeed miraculous. He has commenced to accomplish those things for us which we could never do by ourselves.
If you are as seriously alcoholic as we were, we believe there is no middle-of-the-road solution. We were in a position where life was becoming impossible, and if we had passed into the region from which there is no return through human aid, we had but two alternatives: One was to go on to the bitter end, blotting out the consciousness of our intolerable situation as best we could; and the other, to accept spiritual help. This we did because we honestly wanted to, and were willing to make the effort
Pay Special Attention To This
pg.53
When we became alcoholics, crushed by a self-imposed crises we could not postpone or evade, we had to fearlessly face the proposition that either God is everything or else He is nothing. God either is or He isn't. What was our choice to be?
That is the choice,follow thewpath,work the steps out of the book with a sponser who has worked the steps out of the book,have a spiritual awakening,the obsseision is removed when the spiryual malady is overcome,and then carry this message to those who still suffer everyday for the rest of your life and you will never drink again,God keeps us sober when we do his will,by helping others,but we gotta do it everyday or we slip back into insanity,and it will come uop and take a bite right out of your ass!
Thank God for The Twelve Steps and the textbook Alcoholics Anonymous
.
talking about?
Though there is no way of proving it, we believe that early in our drinking careers most of us could have stopped drinking. But the difficulty is that few alcoholics have enough desire to stop while there is yet time.
As we look back, we feel we had gone on drinking many years beyond the point where we could quit on our will power.
But the actual or potential alcoholic, with hardly any exception, will be absolutely unable to stop drinking on the basis of self-knowledge.
pg. 43
Once more: The alcoholic at certain times has no effective mental defense against the first drink. Except in a few cases, neither he nor any other human being can provide such a defense. His defense must come from a Higher Power.
pg.24
The fact is that most alcoholics, for reasons yet obscure, have lost the power of choice in drink. Our so called will power becomes practically nonexistent. We are unable, at certain times, to bring into our consciousness with sufficient force the memory of the suffering and humiliation of even a week or a month ago. We are without defense against the first drink.
If that be the case, you may be suffering from an illness which only a spiritual experience will conquer.
There is a solution. Almost none of us liked the self-searching, the leveling of our pride, the confession of shortcomings which the process requires for its successful consummation. But we saw that it really worked in others, and we had come to believe in the hopelessness and futility of life as we had been living it. When, therefore, we were approached by those in whom the problem had been solved, there was nothing left for us but to pick up the simple kit of spiritual tools laid at out feet. We have found much of heaven and we have been rocketed into a fourth dimension of existence of which we had not even dreamed.
The great fact is just this, and nothing less: That we have had deep and effective spiritual experiences which have revolutionized our whole attitude toward life, toward our fellows and toward God's universe. The central fact of our lives today is the absolute certainty that our Creator has entered into our hearts and lives in a way which is indeed miraculous. He has commenced to accomplish those things for us which we could never do by ourselves.
If you are as seriously alcoholic as we were, we believe there is no middle-of-the-road solution. We were in a position where life was becoming impossible, and if we had passed into the region from which there is no return through human aid, we had but two alternatives: One was to go on to the bitter end, blotting out the consciousness of our intolerable situation as best we could; and the other, to accept spiritual help. This we did because we honestly wanted to, and were willing to make the effort
Pay Special Attention To This
pg.53
When we became alcoholics, crushed by a self-imposed crises we could not postpone or evade, we had to fearlessly face the proposition that either God is everything or else He is nothing. God either is or He isn't. What was our choice to be?
That is the choice,follow thewpath,work the steps out of the book with a sponser who has worked the steps out of the book,have a spiritual awakening,the obsseision is removed when the spiryual malady is overcome,and then carry this message to those who still suffer everyday for the rest of your life and you will never drink again,God keeps us sober when we do his will,by helping others,but we gotta do it everyday or we slip back into insanity,and it will come uop and take a bite right out of your ass!
Thank God for The Twelve Steps and the textbook Alcoholics Anonymous
.
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