This at an AA meeting?
Guest
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 4,580
This at an AA meeting?
I had a difficult evening last night. At 3 weeks sober, I was feeling worn out and sick of myself. I was tired of my roller coaster emotions...and for the first time in my 3 weeks, I guess I wanted to drink. I wanted to silence my head ...numb my emotions. It was a good wake up call .....
At any rate, I said these things at a meeting and after the meeting a fellow with a lot more sobriety under his belt than I came up to me. He said "you know, AA makes these promises that you're life will get better, but it really doesn't....you just get sober...that's it". I laughed..nervously I guess...and then he said, "I'm not kidding...go to the gym and work it out". I told him I HAD gone to the gym that day...I digress.
If I was feeling any weaker, I do believe his comment could've landed me in the nearest bar. I had already started to feel better by that point...by venting it..and then by hearing the share of others.
Just thought that was a very strange thing for my fellow alcoholic to say to someone struggling.
At any rate, I said these things at a meeting and after the meeting a fellow with a lot more sobriety under his belt than I came up to me. He said "you know, AA makes these promises that you're life will get better, but it really doesn't....you just get sober...that's it". I laughed..nervously I guess...and then he said, "I'm not kidding...go to the gym and work it out". I told him I HAD gone to the gym that day...I digress.
If I was feeling any weaker, I do believe his comment could've landed me in the nearest bar. I had already started to feel better by that point...by venting it..and then by hearing the share of others.
Just thought that was a very strange thing for my fellow alcoholic to say to someone struggling.
Rinnie's Grandpa
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Pylesville Maryland
Posts: 1,273
Good evening Nuudawn...
I had a weak moment at about my 3 week mark also. Take what people say with a grain of salt. Just because someone has more sobriety and even if said at an AA meeting, you have to always be on guard. That was just one person's opinion not that of AA...
Alcohol is cunning and so are alcoholics. You did the right thing by not letting a remark someone said lead you back to drinking...
Have a GREAT sober New Years Eve...
Stay Strong and Positive...
One day at a time.
Steve
I had a weak moment at about my 3 week mark also. Take what people say with a grain of salt. Just because someone has more sobriety and even if said at an AA meeting, you have to always be on guard. That was just one person's opinion not that of AA...
Alcohol is cunning and so are alcoholics. You did the right thing by not letting a remark someone said lead you back to drinking...
Have a GREAT sober New Years Eve...
Stay Strong and Positive...
One day at a time.
Steve
Im not crazy and neither am I
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: My place in (M)Assachusetts
Posts: 2,088
Im ready99 has got it
some are sicker than others
one has to take comments w a grain of salt and....
take what you need and leave the rest behind
best for the new year
stay sober tonight !
some are sicker than others
one has to take comments w a grain of salt and....
take what you need and leave the rest behind
best for the new year
stay sober tonight !
one day at a time
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 44
Its sad that he said that. I know people for whom their actual life circumstances have not necessarily improved much, if at all, yet their lives are still much much happier through being in the fellowship and working the program. "Altered Attitudes" and all that. Maybe he meant something like that?
Rinnie's Grandpa
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Pylesville Maryland
Posts: 1,273
Its always dangerous when people state their personal opinions to people especially people newly sober during an AA meeting...
It gives the newcomer the opinion that it is AA doctrine, which is entirely untrue and just plain wrong...
That always gets me irritated when people do that!!!
If you want to give people your personal opinion, wait until after the meeting outside of the rooms, period...
One day at a time.
Steve
It gives the newcomer the opinion that it is AA doctrine, which is entirely untrue and just plain wrong...
That always gets me irritated when people do that!!!
If you want to give people your personal opinion, wait until after the meeting outside of the rooms, period...
One day at a time.
Steve
Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 2,126
I've always found the phrase "...it gets better," to be slightly dangerous...for some folks it may not appear to be getting 'better' and they may think they're doing something wrong, or just plain give up....their thinking being, "...if this is how it 'gets better,' well, it ain't, so forget it."
Since the whole saying, and not just that phrase, is not really 'AA' but just someone's opinion that has been repeated for so long that it comes across as 'doctrine,' ..... I usually say it like this..........:
"If I don't pick up, I won't get drunk/high, and I don't get drunk/high, my life will get............DIFFERENT..... (o: (whether this difference is 'better' or not is totally up to my perspective/perception) ....... (o:
NoelleR
Since the whole saying, and not just that phrase, is not really 'AA' but just someone's opinion that has been repeated for so long that it comes across as 'doctrine,' ..... I usually say it like this..........:
"If I don't pick up, I won't get drunk/high, and I don't get drunk/high, my life will get............DIFFERENT..... (o: (whether this difference is 'better' or not is totally up to my perspective/perception) ....... (o:
NoelleR
Illegitimi Non Carborundum
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Old Home Terra
Posts: 4,272
Well now folks, let's take a look at the steps...
Alcohol is only mentioned once, in the first step...
God (or your HP) is mentioned or referred to in at least six steps.
Getting dry is only the beginning. The program is actually about being a better person and leading a better, happier life as a result.
The steps are the chart or map. God (HP) is the compass. The traditions and the fellowship are the boat.
If all you do is just sit on the dock (not drink), you probably aren't going to go very far.
. . .
For me, not drinking was only the beginning. Once I did that, all the emotions I was trying to avoid came crashing into me, and some of them with a vengeance. Those first thirty days were really rough. The first sixty days or so as a whole was pretty difficult.
But... as my brain's reward system kicked in again (not relying on chemicals)... and as I re-conditioned some of my behavior (going to lots of meetings)... and as I actually faced and processed all those emotions... slowly things got better. Life started being bearable again sometime around the nintey day mark.
Every month since then has been a little bit better. I've learning how to live life again. I'm taking joy in interacting with other people, (historically something that was extremely rare for me). I'm feeling good about myself and I'm looking to the future with some hope. To me these are some of the promises being fulfilled.
But you have to do the work. No one is going to hand you a new mind and heart, like handing out a chip because a certain amount of time has gone by. It isn't a "tenth visit and you're cured" kind of program.
The fellowship is very important. You learn how to take joy in interacting with people BY interacting with people.
Its like that saying...
God gives us each certain talents, abilities and resources, but we are only stewards of them. He has granted unto us the ability to choose how to use those gifts. Using them to carry out His will and do His work leads to a happier, more satisfying, and fulfilled life. Its simply in our natures.
So leading a sober life in accordance with His will and carrying out His work is the proper GOAL for us.
Its also the REWARD -- pursuing that goal leads to a meaningful, satisfying and thereby happier, life.
Its also the PROCESS -- by actively pursuing the goal and reaping the reward we become better at doing so... Practice makes perfect, just as with anything else.
Its the GOAL, the REWARD and the PROCESS. But we have to make the choice and actually do the work, (which becomes easier the more we do it).
Alcohol is only mentioned once, in the first step...
God (or your HP) is mentioned or referred to in at least six steps.
Getting dry is only the beginning. The program is actually about being a better person and leading a better, happier life as a result.
The steps are the chart or map. God (HP) is the compass. The traditions and the fellowship are the boat.
If all you do is just sit on the dock (not drink), you probably aren't going to go very far.
. . .
For me, not drinking was only the beginning. Once I did that, all the emotions I was trying to avoid came crashing into me, and some of them with a vengeance. Those first thirty days were really rough. The first sixty days or so as a whole was pretty difficult.
But... as my brain's reward system kicked in again (not relying on chemicals)... and as I re-conditioned some of my behavior (going to lots of meetings)... and as I actually faced and processed all those emotions... slowly things got better. Life started being bearable again sometime around the nintey day mark.
Every month since then has been a little bit better. I've learning how to live life again. I'm taking joy in interacting with other people, (historically something that was extremely rare for me). I'm feeling good about myself and I'm looking to the future with some hope. To me these are some of the promises being fulfilled.
But you have to do the work. No one is going to hand you a new mind and heart, like handing out a chip because a certain amount of time has gone by. It isn't a "tenth visit and you're cured" kind of program.
The fellowship is very important. You learn how to take joy in interacting with people BY interacting with people.
Its like that saying...
God gives us each certain talents, abilities and resources, but we are only stewards of them. He has granted unto us the ability to choose how to use those gifts. Using them to carry out His will and do His work leads to a happier, more satisfying, and fulfilled life. Its simply in our natures.
So leading a sober life in accordance with His will and carrying out His work is the proper GOAL for us.
Its also the REWARD -- pursuing that goal leads to a meaningful, satisfying and thereby happier, life.
Its also the PROCESS -- by actively pursuing the goal and reaping the reward we become better at doing so... Practice makes perfect, just as with anything else.
Its the GOAL, the REWARD and the PROCESS. But we have to make the choice and actually do the work, (which becomes easier the more we do it).
Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: orlando, florida
Posts: 5
when i was first in a.a a guy told me "u owe to yourself to try this, i cant promise u things will get better, but i can promise u things will get different."
i didnt take it as negative comment, actually though there was a lot of wisdom too it. for me even though i was sober , i wasnt done bottoming out----marraige couldnt be saved,lost my house etc. so it does make some sense in my case, and different is still much better than what i had drinking and drugging.
i didnt take it as negative comment, actually though there was a lot of wisdom too it. for me even though i was sober , i wasnt done bottoming out----marraige couldnt be saved,lost my house etc. so it does make some sense in my case, and different is still much better than what i had drinking and drugging.
Guest
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 4,580
Thank you all for your thoughtful responses. For me, I can already see how my life is better. My alcohol induced depression has lifted...my desire to die as I felt my life meaningless and without purpose has been replaced with hope and aspiration. I have a heartfelt burning desire for spiritual and emotional growth...I want to grow up rather than stagnating in misery and petulance. I want to be an adult and I want to deal with life in reality...not in some alternate substance laden universe where nothing changes.
Life is exactly what you make it...and I couldn't make anything of my life sitting on a couch night after night drinking myself to oblivion. How could my life not get better? At least..at the very least...I can have a life rather than be apathetic...dead girl walking.
T.
Life is exactly what you make it...and I couldn't make anything of my life sitting on a couch night after night drinking myself to oblivion. How could my life not get better? At least..at the very least...I can have a life rather than be apathetic...dead girl walking.
T.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Anytown, USA
Posts: 264
Hi,
I'm sorry that someone said that to you and that you took it to heart the way you did.
My first thought is to tell you the old cliche, take what you can use and leave the rest behind. I've heard lots of seemingly stupid things at meetings and one in particular where the secretary REALLY bugged me with what I saw as a superior attitude... BUT I just said to myself, "perhaps her remarks will help someone else" or "perhaps it helped her to say them."
And in possible explanation for this man's attitude (for I'm not him, and can't speak for him), maybe he means that you can't expect all your problems to automatically get solved just by not picking up. That problems require a lot of work--and that the program, too, does not get "worked" just by not picking up.
However, I have no idea why he would say this to someone with just 3 weeks under her belt.
I would just let it go--that whole live and let live thing. But I know this. If I DO pick up, I create many, more problems than before. Good for you for coming here to discuss it--that's a healthy way to deal with things. Happy new year!
I'm sorry that someone said that to you and that you took it to heart the way you did.
My first thought is to tell you the old cliche, take what you can use and leave the rest behind. I've heard lots of seemingly stupid things at meetings and one in particular where the secretary REALLY bugged me with what I saw as a superior attitude... BUT I just said to myself, "perhaps her remarks will help someone else" or "perhaps it helped her to say them."
And in possible explanation for this man's attitude (for I'm not him, and can't speak for him), maybe he means that you can't expect all your problems to automatically get solved just by not picking up. That problems require a lot of work--and that the program, too, does not get "worked" just by not picking up.
However, I have no idea why he would say this to someone with just 3 weeks under her belt.
I would just let it go--that whole live and let live thing. But I know this. If I DO pick up, I create many, more problems than before. Good for you for coming here to discuss it--that's a healthy way to deal with things. Happy new year!
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Livonia, MI
Posts: 675
Your life absolutely gets better. You cant expect a whole lot in 3 weeks, though. Life gets better as long as you are actively working at your recovery. Of course it doesnt get any better if you just sit and 'wait' for it to get better. Which is probably what this person is doing. You have stopped drinking. Right there, your life is better.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Somwhere over the rainbow
Posts: 1,175
For every one person that has said something negative about AA, I have heard 10 say positive things ... this includes being at meetings and out and about.
In short, I know people that firmly believe that AA saved their lives and did transform their lives. I have even seen AA work a miracle on a fellow right before my eyes.
In terms of whether or not you wish to subscribe to AA or believe what you hear, that is always a personal choice. Thus the reason for the saying "take what you want, leave the rest behind". You obviously were able to take what you needed... i.e. support, venting, welcoming room, coffee, etc., to get through this difficult time.
What you then faced was a fellow who is likely a dry drunk... question one, "If what he says is true, and if AA does nothing for him, then why is he there?" Second question, "If what he says is true, why does he continue to attend despite having more sober time than you?" He clearly, in his view, doesn't need it, yet he is still there... hmmmm me thinks he is getting something out of it and that is why he is there... perhaps the reason he said what he did is that he is struggling at present...
What I am trying to say is that you will hear a lot of things in AA and after AA. You have to take what is useful to you and leave the rest behind... or for another day. I know people that were living under bridges, were facing serious jail time, etc., that got sober because of AA... does it change lives, definitely..., on the other hand I know a few people that quit on their own and have good lives too... then there are a lot of people that I see struggling everyday...
Peace, Levi
In short, I know people that firmly believe that AA saved their lives and did transform their lives. I have even seen AA work a miracle on a fellow right before my eyes.
In terms of whether or not you wish to subscribe to AA or believe what you hear, that is always a personal choice. Thus the reason for the saying "take what you want, leave the rest behind". You obviously were able to take what you needed... i.e. support, venting, welcoming room, coffee, etc., to get through this difficult time.
What you then faced was a fellow who is likely a dry drunk... question one, "If what he says is true, and if AA does nothing for him, then why is he there?" Second question, "If what he says is true, why does he continue to attend despite having more sober time than you?" He clearly, in his view, doesn't need it, yet he is still there... hmmmm me thinks he is getting something out of it and that is why he is there... perhaps the reason he said what he did is that he is struggling at present...
What I am trying to say is that you will hear a lot of things in AA and after AA. You have to take what is useful to you and leave the rest behind... or for another day. I know people that were living under bridges, were facing serious jail time, etc., that got sober because of AA... does it change lives, definitely..., on the other hand I know a few people that quit on their own and have good lives too... then there are a lot of people that I see struggling everyday...
Peace, Levi
Forward we go...side by side-Rest In Peace
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Serene In Dixie
Posts: 36,740
A new thread was started on Dry Drunk
Please share here
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...dry-drunk.html
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Please share here
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...dry-drunk.html
Thanks
Illegitimi Non Carborundum
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Old Home Terra
Posts: 4,272
Something I shared in a discussion recently...
Some people come into these (AA) rooms seeking to learn how to drink "normally". It usually doesn't take them too long to figure out that they're in the wrong place.
Other people seem to come in to the these (AA) rooms seeking to learn how NOT to drink. That's fine and dandy for as far as it goes, but its only a start. Alcohol is only mentioned once in the steps, and only in the first step at that.
Many people either come into these (AA) rooms, or come to the realization while in these (AA) rooms, that they're here to learn how to live -- either "again" or in some cases for the first time.
That was certainly the case for me. Its like that saying, "Its not so much that I wanted to die as it is that I had forgotten how to live".
I think one of the aspects of a dry drunk is that they've simply stopped using alcohol -- for whatever reason they haven't made the transition yet to wanting to live again.
Some common characteristics include still obsessing about whether or not they are "really" an alcoholic -- since "enough" time has gone by to dry out, maybe they can safely use again kind of thing... denial even though they aren't using... "white-knuckling".
Another is the "alcoholic mindset" -- emotional hypersensitivity... "you just don't understand"... "I'm better than this (and therefore better than YOU)"... delusions... inability to face facts... isolating themselves, even in a crowd.
Its like they've gone back to where they were right before they started using regularly. They're again continually faced with the decision of whether or not to start drinking. Despite all the empirical evidence they've already collected, they still haven't turned away from alcohol use as a possibility in their lives.
Sometimes old-timers recognize this as a need for the person to "...go out and work on your story some more..." They see that the person hasn't yet come to the realization that alcohol won't solve their problems, it will only make the problems worse, because the person STILL isn't willing to face head-on the PROBLEM OF LIVING LIFE ON LIFE'S TERMS. This is also part of what old-timers mean by "...willing to do anything..."
"...Its not so much that I wanted to die as it is that I had forgotten how to live..." And somewhere in that messy morass I crossed a line with my alcohol use and found myself locked into a death-spiral.
Stopping drinking is only the start. My life's problems were still there waiting for me. Not using alcohol allows me to face those problems and to deal with them. To me, a dry drunk hasn't yet come to that realization, or isn't yet willing to start dealing with those problems, so they stay in their misery. Perhaps they're white-knuckling, still in denial. Perhaps they're waiting for someone ELSE to do it for them. Perhaps they're STILL looking for some sort of "escape". Perhaps they're paying some kind of penance. In any case, I don't think they've made the decision to tackle dealing with their own lives head-on and without fear.
Just my two-cents... I didn't meant to hijack anything... Thank you.
Some people come into these (AA) rooms seeking to learn how to drink "normally". It usually doesn't take them too long to figure out that they're in the wrong place.
Other people seem to come in to the these (AA) rooms seeking to learn how NOT to drink. That's fine and dandy for as far as it goes, but its only a start. Alcohol is only mentioned once in the steps, and only in the first step at that.
Many people either come into these (AA) rooms, or come to the realization while in these (AA) rooms, that they're here to learn how to live -- either "again" or in some cases for the first time.
That was certainly the case for me. Its like that saying, "Its not so much that I wanted to die as it is that I had forgotten how to live".
I think one of the aspects of a dry drunk is that they've simply stopped using alcohol -- for whatever reason they haven't made the transition yet to wanting to live again.
Some common characteristics include still obsessing about whether or not they are "really" an alcoholic -- since "enough" time has gone by to dry out, maybe they can safely use again kind of thing... denial even though they aren't using... "white-knuckling".
Another is the "alcoholic mindset" -- emotional hypersensitivity... "you just don't understand"... "I'm better than this (and therefore better than YOU)"... delusions... inability to face facts... isolating themselves, even in a crowd.
Its like they've gone back to where they were right before they started using regularly. They're again continually faced with the decision of whether or not to start drinking. Despite all the empirical evidence they've already collected, they still haven't turned away from alcohol use as a possibility in their lives.
Sometimes old-timers recognize this as a need for the person to "...go out and work on your story some more..." They see that the person hasn't yet come to the realization that alcohol won't solve their problems, it will only make the problems worse, because the person STILL isn't willing to face head-on the PROBLEM OF LIVING LIFE ON LIFE'S TERMS. This is also part of what old-timers mean by "...willing to do anything..."
"...Its not so much that I wanted to die as it is that I had forgotten how to live..." And somewhere in that messy morass I crossed a line with my alcohol use and found myself locked into a death-spiral.
Stopping drinking is only the start. My life's problems were still there waiting for me. Not using alcohol allows me to face those problems and to deal with them. To me, a dry drunk hasn't yet come to that realization, or isn't yet willing to start dealing with those problems, so they stay in their misery. Perhaps they're white-knuckling, still in denial. Perhaps they're waiting for someone ELSE to do it for them. Perhaps they're STILL looking for some sort of "escape". Perhaps they're paying some kind of penance. In any case, I don't think they've made the decision to tackle dealing with their own lives head-on and without fear.
Just my two-cents... I didn't meant to hijack anything... Thank you.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Murrieta, Ca
Posts: 2,683
Remember too, although AA works, there are still a lot of sick people. Even there.
Remember the 4th step prayer. "God, this is a sick person. How can I be of help to them ? God save me from being angry, Thy Will be done"
Remember the 4th step prayer. "God, this is a sick person. How can I be of help to them ? God save me from being angry, Thy Will be done"
Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Tijuana, Mexico
Posts: 1
Nuudawn,
It is too bad that some members don't keep the needs of the newcomers in mind. But the great thing is that you have already learned how to handle a tough situation. You knew to go to a meeting and talk about your feelings and then you knew to come to this website. I'd say that's good progress.
I think the thing to do right now is just not drink and go to meetings. Ask God for help. You're emotions will level off. If the Big Book says it, I believe it. And there ARE promises in it. As others have said here, sort out what the members say and read the book, especially when in doubt.
It is too bad that some members don't keep the needs of the newcomers in mind. But the great thing is that you have already learned how to handle a tough situation. You knew to go to a meeting and talk about your feelings and then you knew to come to this website. I'd say that's good progress.
I think the thing to do right now is just not drink and go to meetings. Ask God for help. You're emotions will level off. If the Big Book says it, I believe it. And there ARE promises in it. As others have said here, sort out what the members say and read the book, especially when in doubt.
Guest
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 4,580
"...Its not so much that I wanted to die as it is that I had forgotten how to live..."
That pretty much summed it up for me at my point of surrender. Thank you Green Tea. I didn't know who I was or how to carry on...everything I once wanted or dreamed of held no attraction anymore. I didn't like to do what I once did...I forgot how to socialize and pretty much started to prefer my own company..well, mine and that of a bottle of course.
That pretty much summed it up for me at my point of surrender. Thank you Green Tea. I didn't know who I was or how to carry on...everything I once wanted or dreamed of held no attraction anymore. I didn't like to do what I once did...I forgot how to socialize and pretty much started to prefer my own company..well, mine and that of a bottle of course.
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