God and AA
Follow Directions!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Fredericksburg, Va.
Posts: 9,730
God and AA
I have heard a lot of folks say they would not use AA in thier recovery because of it being a religion or religous, sometimes it pays to hear it from the horses mouth, AA, instead of from the other end of the horse, the rumor mill.
The below is from AAs official web site:
The below is from AAs official web site:
Is A.A. a religious organization?
No. Nor is it allied with any religious organization.
There’s a lot of talk about God, though, isn’t there?
The majority of A.A. members believe that we have found the solution to our drinking problem not through individual willpower, but through a power greater than ourselves. However, everyone defines this power as he or she wishes. Many people call it God, others think it is the A.A. group, still others don’t believe in it at all. There is room in A.A. for people of all shades of belief and nonbelief.
No. Nor is it allied with any religious organization.
There’s a lot of talk about God, though, isn’t there?
The majority of A.A. members believe that we have found the solution to our drinking problem not through individual willpower, but through a power greater than ourselves. However, everyone defines this power as he or she wishes. Many people call it God, others think it is the A.A. group, still others don’t believe in it at all. There is room in A.A. for people of all shades of belief and nonbelief.
Knucklehead
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Davenport, WA
Posts: 4,005
Forward we go...side by side-Rest In Peace
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Serene In Dixie
Posts: 36,740
It's great to see other methods of recovery growing.
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...-programs.html
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...-programs.html
Knucklehead
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Davenport, WA
Posts: 4,005
LifeRing is working really hard to make secular recovery available to anyone who wants/needs it.
LifeRing News
LifeRing News
Forward we go...side by side-Rest In Peace
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Serene In Dixie
Posts: 36,740
For anyone interested in what AA is about..
we do have this..just next door
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ower-post.html
Come over ...read and post there too.
we do have this..just next door
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ower-post.html
Come over ...read and post there too.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: El Cerrito, California
Posts: 580
"The only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking."
I'm a Buddhist, a spiritual path which doesn't involve God. Many people use the interpretation of spirituality out of the Big Book, and many supplement it with other approaches, or use other approaches in it's stead.
It would be nice if there was AA literature that was more open minded about the many approaches there are to stay sober, but it's a workable situation the way it is.
I'm a Buddhist, a spiritual path which doesn't involve God. Many people use the interpretation of spirituality out of the Big Book, and many supplement it with other approaches, or use other approaches in it's stead.
It would be nice if there was AA literature that was more open minded about the many approaches there are to stay sober, but it's a workable situation the way it is.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: in the present moment
Posts: 2,060
ditto ngokpa.
to me, it seems that some people are expecting way too much of AA, like that "it" be perfect, that "it' provide all things that their parents didn't, that "it's" members be compatible on all levels, that "it's" members be enlightened....
I had those expectations at one point in my life. Then I came to understand that AA is a program of recovery from alcoholism. About the same time I came to desire to quit drinking more than anything else.
AA asks only that I admit that desire for inclusion in its fellowship.
Sponsorship, stepwork, belief in god/higher power, powerlessness, ego deflation, spirituality....these are suggestions, not rules. they are central to the AA philosophy but these practices are NOT delineated as being fundamentally one denomination.
its true that the Big Book is drawn from Judeo-Christian understandings and is big on faith. period. I happen to be far from orthodox and do not have a higher power that i call god. I am not a member of the judeo-christian pedagogy. I am not religious.
yet, I am a member of AA and I feel welcome there. maybe its because i am secure in myself.
i've since learned that whenever another person or groups' philosophy "offends" my intellect or sensibility, it is because i am insecure in that intellect or sensibility.
there is universality within all spiritual traditions, AA's included.
Inclusivity is where its at, if you ask me.
being exclusive, condescending, and rejecting of others is a lonely path.
to me, it seems that some people are expecting way too much of AA, like that "it" be perfect, that "it' provide all things that their parents didn't, that "it's" members be compatible on all levels, that "it's" members be enlightened....
I had those expectations at one point in my life. Then I came to understand that AA is a program of recovery from alcoholism. About the same time I came to desire to quit drinking more than anything else.
AA asks only that I admit that desire for inclusion in its fellowship.
Sponsorship, stepwork, belief in god/higher power, powerlessness, ego deflation, spirituality....these are suggestions, not rules. they are central to the AA philosophy but these practices are NOT delineated as being fundamentally one denomination.
its true that the Big Book is drawn from Judeo-Christian understandings and is big on faith. period. I happen to be far from orthodox and do not have a higher power that i call god. I am not a member of the judeo-christian pedagogy. I am not religious.
yet, I am a member of AA and I feel welcome there. maybe its because i am secure in myself.
i've since learned that whenever another person or groups' philosophy "offends" my intellect or sensibility, it is because i am insecure in that intellect or sensibility.
there is universality within all spiritual traditions, AA's included.
Inclusivity is where its at, if you ask me.
being exclusive, condescending, and rejecting of others is a lonely path.
same planet...different world
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Butte, America
Posts: 10,946
hmmmm .... I can't even imagine trying to succeed in doing this w/o the alignment of a higher power.
whether people call it God ... or whatever, I just can't imagine doing this w/o the help of HP.
whether people call it God ... or whatever, I just can't imagine doing this w/o the help of HP.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Pugetopolis
Posts: 2,384
I agree that there is room for alcoholics of shades, backgrounds, creeds, etc. in AA.
But the ones who seem to be the most useful and content are the ones who have incorporated some sort of spiritual beliefs and practices into their lives.
Having said that, I believe AA is about two things-booze and God.
But the ones who seem to be the most useful and content are the ones who have incorporated some sort of spiritual beliefs and practices into their lives.
Having said that, I believe AA is about two things-booze and God.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Walden CO
Posts: 151
Wow! What a lot of great information and opinions. I'm going to check out all the links that all of you provided. As most of you know, I'm searching for support in my sobriety and am skeptical of lots of things, but also open to everything. Thanks for the info.
Nanita
Nanita
Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Pugetopolis
Posts: 2,384
Let me add to what I just posted-I also believe that the path laid out in the 12 Steps is a definite spiritual path that in and of itself is sufficient.
It is not a religion, but it encompasses them all. Because they all lead to the same place.
It is not a religion, but it encompasses them all. Because they all lead to the same place.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 97
Hi
I think that I can reject someone Else's religious belief without being offensive. I do this be not overtly commenting on their beliefs. AA accomplishes this with most beliefs until it comes to the state of lack of belief, then overt comments start up.
AB
I think that I can reject someone Else's religious belief without being offensive. I do this be not overtly commenting on their beliefs. AA accomplishes this with most beliefs until it comes to the state of lack of belief, then overt comments start up.
AB
Originally Posted by miss communicat 
ditto ngokpa.
to me, it seems that some people are expecting way too much of AA, like that "it" be perfect, that "it' provide all things that their parents didn't, that "it's" members be compatible on all levels, that "it's" members be enlightened....
I had those expectations at one point in my life. Then I came to understand that AA is a program of recovery from alcoholism. About the same time I came to desire to quit drinking more than anything else.
AA asks only that I admit that desire for inclusion in its fellowship.
Sponsorship, stepwork, belief in god/higher power, powerlessness, ego deflation, spirituality....these are suggestions, not rules. they are central to the AA philosophy but these practices are NOT delineated as being fundamentally one denomination.
its true that the Big Book is drawn from Judeo-Christian understandings and is big on faith. period. I happen to be far from orthodox and do not have a higher power that i call god. I am not a member of the judeo-christian pedagogy. I am not religious.
yet, I am a member of AA and I feel welcome there. maybe its because i am secure in myself.
i've since learned that whenever another person or groups' philosophy "offends" my intellect or sensibility, it is because i am insecure in that intellect or sensibility.
there is universality within all spiritual traditions, AA's included.
Inclusivity is where its at, if you ask me.
being exclusive, condescending, and rejecting of others is a lonely path.
to me, it seems that some people are expecting way too much of AA, like that "it" be perfect, that "it' provide all things that their parents didn't, that "it's" members be compatible on all levels, that "it's" members be enlightened....
I had those expectations at one point in my life. Then I came to understand that AA is a program of recovery from alcoholism. About the same time I came to desire to quit drinking more than anything else.
AA asks only that I admit that desire for inclusion in its fellowship.
Sponsorship, stepwork, belief in god/higher power, powerlessness, ego deflation, spirituality....these are suggestions, not rules. they are central to the AA philosophy but these practices are NOT delineated as being fundamentally one denomination.
its true that the Big Book is drawn from Judeo-Christian understandings and is big on faith. period. I happen to be far from orthodox and do not have a higher power that i call god. I am not a member of the judeo-christian pedagogy. I am not religious.
yet, I am a member of AA and I feel welcome there. maybe its because i am secure in myself.
i've since learned that whenever another person or groups' philosophy "offends" my intellect or sensibility, it is because i am insecure in that intellect or sensibility.
there is universality within all spiritual traditions, AA's included.
Inclusivity is where its at, if you ask me.
being exclusive, condescending, and rejecting of others is a lonely path.
Forward we go...side by side-Rest In Peace
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Serene In Dixie
Posts: 36,740
I see this thread as a positive and interesting
exchange of ideas.
No debates..no flames
What a refreshing concept!!
Thanks to all members who are sharing and learning!
exchange of ideas.
No debates..no flames
What a refreshing concept!!
Thanks to all members who are sharing and learning!
Follow Directions!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Fredericksburg, Va.
Posts: 9,730
I was worried this would be taken the wrong way, it was simply meant to bring to light that there is no requirement for anything in AA, including God or HP, the only requirement to be a member is a desire to quit drinking. Every thing in the Big Book and the 12X12 is suggested actions, nothing is cast in concrete or a rule (I hate rules!).
I concur that there is a Judeo/Christian lean in AA, but AA unlike so many other flavors of rehab rejects no one or their beliefs as long as they have a desire to stop drinking.
The offshoots of AA it appears do not exclude those who are religous, I do wonder though how talk of God would be accepted in one of their meetings?
I have heard more then a few folks in the rooms who stated that they did not beleive in God or any type of religion, that their HP lay in the members of AA. I have never heard anyone speak out against them or their beleifs. I have never seen them shunned, some of them are old timers who work an excellent program.
In my recovery my beleif in God did aid me an awful lot, but I am like AA in that I do not support nor condemn any other faith or denomination, as I have found to be very normal for most alcoholics rules and Dogma do not sit well with me. I beleive in God and I believe that Christ is the Son of God, but I also believe in a loving and caring God and that Christians alone are not the only pathway to God.
The main reason I put this out there about AA is I have always been one that depised condemnation of anything or anyone that is based upon rumored beliefs that in reality are not true at all. I have defended Islam on numerous occasions due to seeing foks post blatant lies about thier beliefs.
If I want to learn something about someone or a group I have found the best way to get at the truth is to go to the source and form your opinion from them and not what some one else says, they may have a very biased opinion or simply not know the facts. Think about it, you didn;t go to a mechanic to help you stop drinking, you went to a group of alcoholics who had stopped drinking.
BTW not only are there agnostic AA groups, there are also Christian AA groups for Christians who have just as big a problem with AA being nondenominational and non-sectarian, as agnositcs have with AA mentioning God.
I am sure there are people who are (As I call it) burning with the fire that will before or after a meeting say something that would make an agnostic or anyone of another faith uncomfortable in the way of conversion or judging, but it is not accepted in a meeting.
I have been told that religous people go to church/synagouge/temple/mosque/etc. to not go to hell and that spiritual people ar that way because they have already been to hell and do not want to go back.
I love every one of you and wish you all the best, what ever type of recovery program you use to me is great if it keeps you sober. What works for this alcoholic with 40+ years of drinking in his past is AA and one of the main reasons it work for me is because of my spirituality and faith in my Higher Power that I happen to call God.
I concur that there is a Judeo/Christian lean in AA, but AA unlike so many other flavors of rehab rejects no one or their beliefs as long as they have a desire to stop drinking.
The offshoots of AA it appears do not exclude those who are religous, I do wonder though how talk of God would be accepted in one of their meetings?
I have heard more then a few folks in the rooms who stated that they did not beleive in God or any type of religion, that their HP lay in the members of AA. I have never heard anyone speak out against them or their beleifs. I have never seen them shunned, some of them are old timers who work an excellent program.
In my recovery my beleif in God did aid me an awful lot, but I am like AA in that I do not support nor condemn any other faith or denomination, as I have found to be very normal for most alcoholics rules and Dogma do not sit well with me. I beleive in God and I believe that Christ is the Son of God, but I also believe in a loving and caring God and that Christians alone are not the only pathway to God.
The main reason I put this out there about AA is I have always been one that depised condemnation of anything or anyone that is based upon rumored beliefs that in reality are not true at all. I have defended Islam on numerous occasions due to seeing foks post blatant lies about thier beliefs.
If I want to learn something about someone or a group I have found the best way to get at the truth is to go to the source and form your opinion from them and not what some one else says, they may have a very biased opinion or simply not know the facts. Think about it, you didn;t go to a mechanic to help you stop drinking, you went to a group of alcoholics who had stopped drinking.
BTW not only are there agnostic AA groups, there are also Christian AA groups for Christians who have just as big a problem with AA being nondenominational and non-sectarian, as agnositcs have with AA mentioning God.
I am sure there are people who are (As I call it) burning with the fire that will before or after a meeting say something that would make an agnostic or anyone of another faith uncomfortable in the way of conversion or judging, but it is not accepted in a meeting.
I have been told that religous people go to church/synagouge/temple/mosque/etc. to not go to hell and that spiritual people ar that way because they have already been to hell and do not want to go back.
I love every one of you and wish you all the best, what ever type of recovery program you use to me is great if it keeps you sober. What works for this alcoholic with 40+ years of drinking in his past is AA and one of the main reasons it work for me is because of my spirituality and faith in my Higher Power that I happen to call God.
Follow Directions!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Fredericksburg, Va.
Posts: 9,730
jimhere check out the Fredericksburg Va. "Where and when" there is a group that calls itself something to the effect of "Christians in AA", agreed that it is not a "Christian AA", but the name implies such. We also have another group that is called "The Rainbow Club", on the Fredericksburg Va. "Where and when" it in parantheses has (gay), this does not exclude straights, but it does allow one a more comfortable enviroment if your not gay or you are.
To my knowledge the Christain group is that simply in title/name alone and has not altered any literature, but the title/name does let those who feel most comfortable around fellow Christians a sanctuary of sorts and also gives agnostics a heads up that they might want to choose another meeting.
Once again this proves that the only rule that applies in AA is that there are no rules! LOL
To my knowledge the Christain group is that simply in title/name alone and has not altered any literature, but the title/name does let those who feel most comfortable around fellow Christians a sanctuary of sorts and also gives agnostics a heads up that they might want to choose another meeting.
Once again this proves that the only rule that applies in AA is that there are no rules! LOL
Forward we go...side by side-Rest In Peace
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Serene In Dixie
Posts: 36,740
From the sticky here..
Some variations on 12 Step:
Agnostics AA:
http://agnosticaa.org/
Alcoholics Victorious (Christian 12 step):
http://www.alcoholicsvictorious.org/12-steps.html
Pagan approach to 12 steps:
http://members.aol.com/JehanaS/recovery.html
Another Christian recovery site:
http://www.celebraterecovery.com/message.asp
Rabbi Twerski's interpretation of the 12 Steps from a Jewish perspective:
http://www.a-1associates.com/AA/jacs_journal_2.htm
__________________
Some variations on 12 Step:
Agnostics AA:
http://agnosticaa.org/
Alcoholics Victorious (Christian 12 step):
http://www.alcoholicsvictorious.org/12-steps.html
Pagan approach to 12 steps:
http://members.aol.com/JehanaS/recovery.html
Another Christian recovery site:
http://www.celebraterecovery.com/message.asp
Rabbi Twerski's interpretation of the 12 Steps from a Jewish perspective:
http://www.a-1associates.com/AA/jacs_journal_2.htm
__________________
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
