doorknob

Did you even check out the link?

AA is like a religion to some of us, and I'm not interested in that type of conversion.

BSPGirl

Thanks nanita. In the end both of the dudes in my analogy got their clothing washed, which was the whole point. Like in the end we all try to lead a life as happy as possible and preferably also as sober as possible.

Marte

nanita

Doorknob - I don't know if FriendofBill checked out the DIY link you provided, but I did. It's was my first time to read that link, and it was very interesting. I'll be reading it daily from now on and thank you for providing the link.

I am firmly committed to my quest for sobriety, but like you, am not interested in the type of conversion that AA involves. I know I will be successful and I also know I can do it with the support systems that I choose for myself (this site being one of the most helpful support systems I've found to date).

Thanks!
Nanita

doorknob

That's how I interpreted Carol's post as well (well... one interpretation).

I didn't decide against AA until after several stints of attending meetings. There are things about it that I just cannot reconcile.

nocellphone

I'm not sure that this "simple fact" is indeed a fact.

Everything I've seen--first-hand, anecdotally, in the newspapers, in addiction-themed publications--suggests that "most people" who suffer from addictions die in their disease without the benefit of finding sobriety, in support groups or otherwise.

That, sadly, seems to be the fact.

psd4237

I think that totally hits the proverbial nail on the head. I think a lot of people who truly need the type of support that AA offers are turned off by one of two things. (And yes, I do speak from experience as an recovering alcoholic--nine years, two months today--and attender of AA since 1996.) First, is the religious aspect. Traditionally the Higher Power is "God." As a non-religious person, that was a real sticking point for me, until I realized that a Higher Power doesn't have to be "the God," but really just something stable to hold to. This may sound a bit odd, but my Higher Power has always been Mother Nature. She's always there, all around us--constantly changing (like my moods, sometimes stormy and sometimes calm), yet always there and trying to reach balance. I might be having a really low day today, but if I can just not drink today, tomorrow might be better. The weather might be miserable today, but the shine will shine again. Anyway, since I'm starting to ramble, let me get to my other point. The second thing that I think turns people off to AA is the perception that it is a "cult" bent on converting people and bringing them into the inner circle, with its own lingo: "one day at a time," "progress not perfection," and so on. Attending meetings is not a brainwashing. It is not a group of zombies sitting around drinking coffee. It is real people talking about their problems with others who have had similar experiences and can really relate. Don't get me wrong; I'm not saying that AA is right for everyone and that everyone who attends a meeting will get sober, but it really burns my butt when people dismiss what AA can offer without ever having been to a meeting and giving it a chance. OK, I'll get off my soapbox now.
Peggy

mikel60

"Its in my profile, if you wanna see."
FOB - Not that it really matters but... are you really 97? You don't have to answer and I'm not trying to be offensive - just nosey.

psd4237

No offense taken, although I am a bit confused. Chronologically, I'm 36, but in sober years I'm only 9 years, 2 months. Last drop of alcohol on September 27, 1997.

CarolD

Hi psd4237 ..I can clarify..

Mike was referring to FOB
the non alcoholic poster on this thread.

Congratulations on your sober time..
it's great to see you sharing with us.

mikel60

Hi psd4237,
Yeah sorry. Friend of Bill had invited us to look at her profile. I was referring to her, not you. Now I feel silly - and nosey. Mike

psd4237

oops! Sorry about that! Guess I got a bit confused!

CarolD

This whole thread is confused!! JMO

doorknob

nocellphone

In the interest of accuracy and full disclosure, I'm also not an alcoholic and have posted on this thread.

I'm somewhat confused as to why that keeps coming up (who is or isn't an alcoholic). Am I missing something?

GlassPrisoner

It doesn't matter if FOB is an alcoholic or not. Perhaps he/she has been affected in some way by alcoholism.

As far as The Topic

I go to AA.

I've been to treatment

I believe in God, have accepted the fact that I can't go it alone, and will be turning my will and life over to God as I understand him Sunday.

I will go to any means to achieve sobriety.

I had to get my butt kicked from one end of the other until my stubborn self-reliant ass realized I had to surrender.

Yes, I is the key word here. We alcoholics are a selfish, self-centered bunch. However, the 12 steps help us quit self seeking and to help others. Which, paradoxically, is selfish in itself as it helps us stay sober.

Tazman53

FOB you see alcoholism from the other side, we are all in recovery, my wife used to attend Ala-non but got totally fed up with the group she went to because all she saw was a group of victims sharing what it was like being victims. Some of them had been living in horrible relationships for both them selves and thier children for over 10 years the whole time attending ala-non meetings.

My wife thank God took my bottom and hit me upside the head with it!!! She told me she was taking the kids and leaving me! Her and the kids had been victims of my drinking long enough and she was not willing to let them go through having to live with my drinking for another day. Her telling me that was not my bottom, my bottom was right after she told me that I knew that if I lost her and my kids I would have nothing left but drinking myself to death! Well I didn't want to die so I put myself into de-tox and now I am in AA and sober. My wife attends a lot of open meetings because she gains a better understanding of me and my disease and is elated in seeing folks with years of sobriety under there belts.

I do not feel that AA is the only way to stay sober, I will say it works for me and that is all that matters, my first priority in life is my sobriety, because if I am not sober the only priority I have is getting or staying drunk!

Any thing that works for some one else except white knuckling it is great, we are all different. I will say this, if you are not involved in something to help maintain your sobriety one of 2 things will happen, you will drink again or you will live your life as a dry drunk which is a miserable existance.

I do find it rather upsetting when some folks say they don't like AA because it is a religous cult of sorts. The first thing I would have to say about that is to read the Chapter in Alcoholics Anonymous "To the Agnostic", do not read it while you are still practicing your alcoholism, because if you are an agnostic or not you will not understand what it is trying to tell you. Read after you have actually been sober for at least a couple of weeks straight. You might be very surprised to find out that AA is not Christain, Jewish, Muslim, or any other type of religion.

All the chapter "To the Agnostic" is pointing out is that in order to recover one has to turn over thier recovery to a "Higher Power" PERIOD. For the most part you will find folks in Christian countries after a period of sobriety finding a Christian God, in Isreal most AAs after a period of sobriety finding a Jewish God, and in Muslim countries after a period of sobriety finding a Muslim God.

One of the best speakers I ever heard speak at an AA meeting was an agnostic!! His main topic was his "Higher Power", he flat out stated that until he had been sober a few weeks into rehab he finally understood what was being said in the chapter "To the Agnostic". He said that once he realized that he did not have to find a God but simply a power greater then himself he made tremendous strides in his sobriety and his program by at first viewing AA as a whole as his higher power, he said that as his spirituality grew and he became more sober he realized that there was a "Higher Power" then AA, he said that his higher power was not God in a religous sense, but in an acknowledgement that all of creation that he saw about him in the world could not have happened by accident, but that some "Higher Power" controled it and that is all he needed, he had if I recall correctly 7 years of sobriety. BTW he spoke in front of a group of I would estimate 100 AA members.

I have no problem with others sharing thier recovery methods, but I feel we should all be respectful of each others methods and not sit around and down others programs, especially when we do not know what we are talking about. In this case I am talking about those who claim to know AA and say that you have to believe in God, read the chapter "To the Agnostic" sober and tell me if that is a requirement.

To those who really have no idea what the rules are in AA I will share them all with you right now. There is one rule in AA, that rule is there are no rules, merely suggestions!

nanita

I read the AA Big Book when I was still drinking. I'll go back today and read the chapter on The Agnostic (that's me).

doorknob

Nanita,

I'm interested in what you think of that chapter.

Paul

Tazman53

LOL nanita do not feel like the lone ranger, I was drunk on my arse when I attended my first AA meeting, for some weird drunken reason I bought a Big Book! I read it the first time in my garage cover to cover while drinking! You know..... for some reason I got as much out of the Big Book drunk as I did out of that first AA meeting drunk! What I got out of both was nothing but drunk!

I was amazed once I got out of de-tox and into the rooms of AA how much sense things seemed to make sober, and reading the Big Book sober it made sense too. The longer I am sober the more things that help me stay sober make sense.

Funny how things seem to be easier to understand when one is sober! Misconceptions seem to fall away and a dose of reality is far easier to swallow.

nanita

Paul - I'll be reading that in the next couple of hours and will let you know what I think.
Nanita