Alcholism isnt a disease and can be cured?
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Join Date: May 2006
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Alcholism isnt a disease and can be cured?
so says Addiction therapist Chris Prentiss . Please read and tell me your thoughts? he thinks if the underlying cause is cured then so can the addiction...mmmm
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...3-2428948.html
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...3-2428948.html
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Dear Jen,
Alot of people have differing viewpoints on the disease model of alcoholism. Its good to keep educating yourself until you find your way to clarity.
I prefer to stay out of the debates because I accept that, for myself, alcohol is poison. My brain and other metabolic chemistry becomes altered in a pathological way when/if I drink alcohol. I make poor choices and can cause harm to self and others.
A great thread here is the one begun by Green Tea called "Under The Influence" which has excerpst and commentary from a book of the same name which presents the facts (and only the facts, ma'am) for those learning about alcolo in the body.
I'm sure others will come along to weigh in on the conversation . Good luck in your quest for answers!
Alot of people have differing viewpoints on the disease model of alcoholism. Its good to keep educating yourself until you find your way to clarity.
I prefer to stay out of the debates because I accept that, for myself, alcohol is poison. My brain and other metabolic chemistry becomes altered in a pathological way when/if I drink alcohol. I make poor choices and can cause harm to self and others.
A great thread here is the one begun by Green Tea called "Under The Influence" which has excerpst and commentary from a book of the same name which presents the facts (and only the facts, ma'am) for those learning about alcolo in the body.
I'm sure others will come along to weigh in on the conversation . Good luck in your quest for answers!
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Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Alberta, Canada
Posts: 363
Well, I personally believe that my addiction is not a disease but behavioural issues, thus, no cure is needed.
That being said, I also believe that there are some people willing to take advantage of desperate people who would pay anything for a "treatment" or "cure". $60,000 for a three month treatment? You don't have to be rich, to be sober. I think we can all agree on this.
Keep well
Ron
That being said, I also believe that there are some people willing to take advantage of desperate people who would pay anything for a "treatment" or "cure". $60,000 for a three month treatment? You don't have to be rich, to be sober. I think we can all agree on this.
Keep well
Ron
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To me, the question isn't whether or not alcoholism is a disease or not. What matters is, whether I can quit drinking or not. I've been a member in good standing of AA for almost 30 years and haven't found it necessary to drink since going to my first meeting. I've dealt with problems of "defect of character" and have come to believe in a power greater than myself. Having done those things, the question is, could I ever drink responsibly? I think not!! Of course, there's no proof of that, seeing as how one day at a time, my choice is to stay sober and enjoy my life as I know it now. However, if I allow myself to dwell on the idea of taking a drink, I experience a kind of feeling of excitement and euphoria which I associate with being in a bar drinking, eyeing the women and planning the chase and conquer. It's been said that "real alcoholics" are physically and mentally different than "normal" drinkers. I believe this statement. Why? Because from the very first drink at age 18, I lived up to the theory as stated in the Big Book that the real alcoholic, at some stage in his drinking career, loses the ability to control his drinking after taking that first drink. People seem to accept the idea of drugs such as heroin and cocaine, being addictive, as do I. I also believe that alcohol is addictive, therefore, I'm an alcohol addict. As long as I'm free of alcohol, the addiction is arrested. As soon as I injest alcohol, the addiction is triggered once again. I'm almost 30 years sober and enjoying my life today more than ever, and am also 30 years older. I'd lose everything if I drank again at this point.
Is alcoholism a disease?? I don't know and I don't care. I know one thing though. I'm not going to waste time dwelling on the question and possibly coming to the decision that maybe this time I can control my drinking. Personally I believe people who spend time asking questions like "is alcoholism really a disease," still aren't convinced they're powerless over alcohol, and are looking for justification to drink just once more. For me, that's insanity!!!
Is alcoholism a disease?? I don't know and I don't care. I know one thing though. I'm not going to waste time dwelling on the question and possibly coming to the decision that maybe this time I can control my drinking. Personally I believe people who spend time asking questions like "is alcoholism really a disease," still aren't convinced they're powerless over alcohol, and are looking for justification to drink just once more. For me, that's insanity!!!
Last edited by Music; 11-03-2006 at 06:57 AM.
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I saw that article in the Times the other day too Jen. It was pretty low to send an active alcoholic to do the interview.
This ongoing argument about whether alcoholism is a disease is a bit of a waste of time. Like Music says, I neither know nor care whether it is or not. What was critical for me however was accepting that whatever it was about me and alcohol, it's never going to change. That's an immense relief. As long as I don't put any alcohol in my system, they can call it what they like.
This ongoing argument about whether alcoholism is a disease is a bit of a waste of time. Like Music says, I neither know nor care whether it is or not. What was critical for me however was accepting that whatever it was about me and alcohol, it's never going to change. That's an immense relief. As long as I don't put any alcohol in my system, they can call it what they like.
Forward we go...side by side-Rest In Peace
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I think alcoholics and addicts should explore all
avenues to reach their success.
Unchecked alcoholism and drug addiction kills.
Think what you will...but save your life!
avenues to reach their success.
Unchecked alcoholism and drug addiction kills.
Think what you will...but save your life!
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Location: Philadelphia, PA
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It's not really clear from the article whether his idea of being "cured" includes the ability to then drink normally, or abstinence. If it's the latter, then I don't see that his ideas are all that different from the disease model, at least as far as results are concerned.
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While this may not be particularly popular, I agree with this person's views.
I personally was never able to say "I Have a disease..." when I did that it became a great excuse to really drink. When I quit I had to resort to "I have a bad way of coping with my problems, alcoholism may run in my family, but it is a learned behaviour response, and what I learned I can unlearn." I have done that. Bottom line is that I had to accept it was me that was causing the problem and it was me that could change that problem.
On the flip side, I also know that people in my family have two choices, drink or don't drink. Those that choose the former tend to have problems. Those that choose the latter tend to have good lives.
So, is it a disease? I don't want to waste the time debating it. For me it was all about accepting I was making bad choices and needed to get to the root of what was causing that. I have done so. Once I did that the change occurred. Do I still crave it? Yes. Do I still want to over indulge? Yes. Do I now indulge? No. I am ever on guard... it is uncanny how easy it is to fall back into it when I am stressed and worried. Easy solution, regardless of how stressed and worried, avoid it... regardless of how "good" things are, don't even think about it... that's how it gets me... normally when I slipped it was b/c of feeling particularly good, what could a drink hurt... not feeling bad.
Is it a disease? I can't rightly say, I can say it will kill me if I play with it so I don't.
Peace Levi
I personally was never able to say "I Have a disease..." when I did that it became a great excuse to really drink. When I quit I had to resort to "I have a bad way of coping with my problems, alcoholism may run in my family, but it is a learned behaviour response, and what I learned I can unlearn." I have done that. Bottom line is that I had to accept it was me that was causing the problem and it was me that could change that problem.
On the flip side, I also know that people in my family have two choices, drink or don't drink. Those that choose the former tend to have problems. Those that choose the latter tend to have good lives.
So, is it a disease? I don't want to waste the time debating it. For me it was all about accepting I was making bad choices and needed to get to the root of what was causing that. I have done so. Once I did that the change occurred. Do I still crave it? Yes. Do I still want to over indulge? Yes. Do I now indulge? No. I am ever on guard... it is uncanny how easy it is to fall back into it when I am stressed and worried. Easy solution, regardless of how stressed and worried, avoid it... regardless of how "good" things are, don't even think about it... that's how it gets me... normally when I slipped it was b/c of feeling particularly good, what could a drink hurt... not feeling bad.
Is it a disease? I can't rightly say, I can say it will kill me if I play with it so I don't.
Peace Levi
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Interesting article and Chris Prentiss sounds like an interesting man, who has a interesting approach to recovery that isn't embrace by most recovery shops (treatment centres). Amazing that his program boasts a recovery rate of 80% plus, while AA's success rate is in the single digits.
I found this an interesting part of the article:
"Six of the steps are asking God to help you. With a relapse rate close to 90 per cent, God isn’t listening."
As I watched people die, who had attended AA, I always wondered where was God?
I found this an interesting part of the article:
"Six of the steps are asking God to help you. With a relapse rate close to 90 per cent, God isn’t listening."
As I watched people die, who had attended AA, I always wondered where was God?
Forward we go...side by side-Rest In Peace
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Let's remember this was a book review
by a drinking reporter.
Mr. P owns a very expensive private treatment center
He wrote a book on his methods.
I'm certain we all hope for a successful recovery
to all who suffer.
by a drinking reporter.
Mr. P owns a very expensive private treatment center
He wrote a book on his methods.
I'm certain we all hope for a successful recovery
to all who suffer.
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Location: Zion, Illinois
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Originally Posted by Taiman
"Six of the steps are asking God to help you. With a relapse rate close to 90 per cent, God isn’t listening."
As I watched people die, who had attended AA, I always wondered where was God?
As I watched people die, who had attended AA, I always wondered where was God?
Secondly, as I read through the article, I couldn't help but notice that the "cure" was based on getting to the "underlying causes and effects" that made a person drink. Sure sounds like steps 4 through 9 to me.
Lastly, I have better things to do than sit around all day, waiting and listening in anticipation for someone to say something to me. I imagine God has better things to do too than wait for some stubborn, pigheaded, selfish, self-centered drunk to say "help me." That's really all it takes. And then of course, there's always that old "shut up and listen" thingy. I kind of thought prayer and meditation was like a conversation. First I talk, and then I listen.
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I have a Clancy I CD titled "disease of perception"where he talks about various alcoholism cures that were put forth apparently in the 60s and 70s. Very interesting listening. Next month/week/year something new will come out. I'm happy with what I have and am not interested in drinking normally even if that were somehow possible.
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What my experience shows me is that alcoholism is a disease which goes into remission when I abstain from alcohol AND look after my recovery (needs expanding on elsewhere) which is the only management that clued-up doctors ever prescribe me for it.
It is progressive because every time I have started another drinking period my experience of the drink was different and every time I started a non-drinking period my experience of abstaining was different. This time I am getting PAWS badly.
People we have known in AA who later die from a drink related cause we have no cause to turn our noses up at. Nor at God. God gave them a period of sobriety and of listening to the ES&H of their fellows and knowledge from the BB and other approved literature of the Fellowship, and the friendship of the fellowship members. However short a period it was, they take that with them and I have not the slightest doubt it has made their end better than it would have been. We know why we drank, for our nerves. The writer of that piece and Mr P know why they drank. Some people have had a most unspeakably terrible life in terms of abuse suffered. One day that they abstained and listened to news of hope is win for them, win for God and win for those of us that brought them the message that day.
It is progressive because every time I have started another drinking period my experience of the drink was different and every time I started a non-drinking period my experience of abstaining was different. This time I am getting PAWS badly.
People we have known in AA who later die from a drink related cause we have no cause to turn our noses up at. Nor at God. God gave them a period of sobriety and of listening to the ES&H of their fellows and knowledge from the BB and other approved literature of the Fellowship, and the friendship of the fellowship members. However short a period it was, they take that with them and I have not the slightest doubt it has made their end better than it would have been. We know why we drank, for our nerves. The writer of that piece and Mr P know why they drank. Some people have had a most unspeakably terrible life in terms of abuse suffered. One day that they abstained and listened to news of hope is win for them, win for God and win for those of us that brought them the message that day.
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