findingout

Worth repeating. So I did.

The cool thing is that if we do decide to get sober, there is so much love and support available to us as we struggle with the journey back to where we are supposed to be. For sure, the bonus points don't come from doing it all by ourselves....

Dave31

I can't state for a fact that my drinking will be moderate forever because I am not omniscient I understand what you are saying but I think you are being rather negative and defeatist. You obviously believe that once a person demonstrates alcoholic tendencies, that is it - they can't change. I never used to be the way I was at the start of this thread, before, and I'm not going to be in future either.

Come to think of it, I guess it's no surprise that I have received almost universal advice that I must abstain totally and that alcohol per se is a very bad thing, on an alcoholics forum. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy really isn't it. It's like going to a vegetarian forum and asking if I should eat meat

CarolD

nanita.... Ouch!

Dave... Yes...the name of this site IS
Sober Recovery..So...

Off hand I can not think of a member who has stayed once they decide
they have no problem with drinking.

What do we have to offer them?

Blessings

Dave31

JaySee

How can one change the way a person physically reacts to a drug or substance.? It is impossible for me to change the way my body reacts to alcohol. That would be like telling someone who reacted to peanuts badly that they wouldn't react to the peanuts that way if only they changed the way they eat them.

You won't hear that from me. By far the majority of the population can use alcohol safely. I accept that. I can't. I now accept that, although for years and years, I didn't, I was always looking for a way to drink 'normally'. My drinking got worse and worse and my life got more and more chaotic.

much love
JC

chip

Hi Dave,
I wish you all the best with your plan.

I think you should do what you feel you need to do.

Your story, and Earlybirds comments take me back to where I was a couple 24hours ago...

Earlybird did some tough talking to me as well. It got me pretty mad, but I realized he was only trying to help me. I did ask for help...

He got me so mad, I actually quit drinking!?!?!

The world would be pretty boring if we were all the same, eh? I have to remind myself that you arn't me when I'm reading your posts.

I'm not like earlybird either, and I'm not going to try to convince you that you are an alcoholic. My only advice to you is that you keep good track of your drinking, and stay honest with yourself. I believe that if you stay honest with yourself, you will figure things out.

FYI,
I kept a "drinking sheet" and attempted to control my drinking too. I guess the difference between us is that I am an alcoholic. Those words sound so harsh, but I've said it over and over again as I walk into freedom.... I had to get honest with myself, and it took me some time.

Today, I am free from the obsession and compulsion of my drinking. I had to give up fighting and fighting...

Again, I urge you to stick with your plan and keep those sheets honest!! It's a smart move to monitor your drinking, if you feel you can keep drinking.

PLEASE don't be afraid to come back to SR and keep posting!
May God Bless You,
chip

Dave31

Fair enough Whether I am the same as the majority of people, or whether I am the same as you, remains to be seen. I will let you know

chip

Dave,
To be fair, the majority of people don't do the things you said that you did in this thread (Blackouts, binge drinking etc....)


Honestly, the stuff you wrote about sounds like something a person with an alcohol problem would write.

Basically I have been binge drinking for a few months now. I've been buying one or two bottles of Vodka a week and then consuming around 1/2-2/3 of a bottle in one day. In fact when I say a day, it's more like a few hours. I've just been drinking it neat, sometimes in a glass, sometimes straight from the bottle. I find it very pleasurable to do this.

Again, we arn't all the same, and I hope your plan works for you. You asked a question in this thread, and you are the only one who knows the answer. Many of us read what you wrote, and we can relate 100%.

Don't stop using the sheets, and stay honest with your documentation. Another symptom of alcoholism is denial. This is a disease of denial.
chip

Dave31

Thanks chip, I do appreciate what you are saying. FWIW the definition of binge drinking I am using is what the UK government use, which is 8 'units' a day. That equates to four pints of ordinary strength lager (4% ABV). In my opinion the UK drinking guidelines are very conservative and they put an awful lot of ordinary people into the binge drinking category. Whether this is right or wrong is debatable I think.

chip

Dave,
I just hope you know that I'm not judging you!

You can find the answers you need. As long as you are 100% honest with youself, I'm confident that you will find the answer which works for you.

I think if you stick with the sheets, and keep honest, you'll find out for yourself if moderation works or not..

I just hope you don't get scared away from SR, or fall head first into scary alcoholic drinking. Please keep posting, k?
good luck,
chip

earlybird

Dave,.....its not like you spent a few days drinking, .....then went and checked the UK Governments stats to find out if you had "binged" or not. You know you binged because of the way you felt, and the effect alcohol has on you. And yes,...you are right,...about coming to a recovery forum and expecting to get the advice and comments you have been getting. But,...dont overlook the fact that your drinking concerned you enough to seek out a recovery site and pose a question about your drinking. Normal, can-take-it-or-leave-it, social drinkers dont ever have to do that. Its just not a concern. Usually, the alcoholic in question doesnt begin their concern until it has gotten pretty apparent to others. Its like the airplane/field analogy. If you are standing in the middle of a corn field, you have to idea actually how big that field is. The others on the outside looking in that fly over that field can see just how big it is......and you standing in the middle of it.....lost. Even if nobody close to you has said anything yet,.....they have probably been saying it to eachother. You said it yourself,....alcohol has caused you black outs,....you binge....you have felt pretty concerned over it,.....so you need to ask yourself why you would still want to drink. You say its because you enjoy it. Black outs are enjoyable? Binge drinkings a pleasure? Looking, to others, like the drunk in the middle of a binge is not embarrassing? When I wasnt sure if I was an alcoholic or not,...I still wanted to drink, too. My reason? I enjoyed it. When I was positive that I was an alcoholic,....I still wanted to drink. My reason? I enjoyed it. Even after the blackouts, the DWI's, being stripped of my privilage to drive, losing jobs, losing friends, losing money, losing my self-respect. After all of this,.....my mind still told me that I enjoyed drinking. I used all the reasons, and excuses you have. Used all the analogies. I have actually heard the very same vegetarian analogy on this site last year sometime. We think the things we come up with are new because we thought of them. What we dont realize is that alcoholics all think alot alike. Thats why you can go to an AA meeting or open talk and hear people say things that make you go "Holy crap.....I did that, too"

So dont think you are safe simply because you are right now believing all the things you are saying. In time....you wont.

Dave31

I have 'binge drunk' in a real sense, yes - that is to say drinking a lot of alcohol. I was just pointing out that 'binge drinking' means different things to different people. Four pints of ordinary strength beer or cider, to most people, is light years away from binge drinking. Yet my government classifies anyone who drinks four pints in one day as a problem drinker. Even if those four pints were spread throughout the entire day. I think this is nonsensical, don't you? Do you always accept conventional wisdom or do you evaluate it for yourself and decide whether it makes sense to you personally?

Maybe it was a mistake to do so...


No, not at all - and if I ever feel that my drinking is becoming a problem like that then I will know it is time to quit. But while I can drink without problems as I am currently doing (I don't mean at this minute incidentally) then where is the need to quit. Because you believe that because you and others here lack the willpower and resolve to moderate their drinking, therefore I must be the same. Well I respectfully disagree

We'll see

earlybird

First of all,.....willpower has NOTHING to do with it. Secondly,....do you realize how desperate you sound using Government standards as to why you dont have a drinking problem? Dont come on a recovery site and title a thread "Am I an alcoholic?" only to argue the point after people say you probably are given your story. Have you ever heard the term "Blinded by love". Do you know what it means? It means someone is with someone else who is clearly not healthy for them. Their friends see it. They even try to tell them. He refuses to listen to reason. Then, he is known as being blinded by love. Alcoholics are "blinded by love" as well. Love of drinking. Love of escaping. You are so blinded by it, you dont even see how insane the ideas of using government standards and creating drinking charts and sheets are. How is writing up drinking graphs or charts "social" drinking? How is that even considered normal? What would you think of someone other than you that did that? What would think of, say, a good friend of yours doing that after they asked ANYONE if they are an alcoholic or not? Charts, graphs, sheets,....whatever you want to call them, equals obsession. But,...you are going to learn that the hard way. Drinking still means more to you than anything in your life. How often do you drink? Because non-alcoholics dont drink everyday. They dont even drink every week. They certainly dont drink multiple times a week on a regular basis. So I think right there proves that you dont fall into that catagory. Im sorry if I dont subscribe to "social protocol" and say "Only you can decide if you are an alcoholic"....because I believe that is B.S. If that were true,....a trained physician wouldnt be able to diagnose it. We, on this site, who have achieved and maintained good sobriety,........who BETTER to see the signs? Who better to give a concerned warning? We have been through it. We know the pain. We know the justifications. We know the excuses. We know symptoms. We know what it takes to get sober. You seem to be willing to listen to anyone or anything that tells you that you are not an alcoholic,..ie, the UK Government ( a body of people who dont even know you and whom you have never spoken to ),...but you shutdown completely and fight anyone who says you sound like you have a drinking problem. Thats denial, my friend. And that is this diseases BIGGEST symptom. And do not ever attack or second guess the willpower and intestinal fortitude of the good people on this site who have gone through the most couragous change of their lives. We have done something that you can only imagine.

Dave31

It does? I beg to differ...

Nor do I.

Nor do I.

I think you missed my point about the government guidelines. According to them, I am a problem drinker because anyone who ever drinks eight of their 'units' in a day is according to them, a binge drinker.

Do you think someone who drinks four pints of regular strength beer or cider in a day, is a binge drinking alcoholic? Yes or no

To be honest mate I am bored of this silly argument and your circular logic.

JaySee

LOL - that's the sort of thing I would say in the pub about people who went to AA before ordering my 10th pint and going home and reducing my wife to tears again

Dave - I think at the moment YOU know what's best for YOU, no one here, or the British Government and its advisors (The British Medical Association) is going to convince you otherwise. Your personal attacks speak volumes. I wish you well in finding the answer you seek.

much love
JC

earlybird

I think anyone to whom those four beers a day are important has a problem.....yes.

And of course you say you are bored and that this is a silly argument. I agree......it IS silly that you argue this. By the way,....that is exactly what an alcoholic would do. They reduce and minimize things down to words like "stupid", "dumb",....and "silly". This is a big issue in your life. By minimizing it, you are going to have huge repercussions. Very soon. But,...go ahead,...keep on drinking. Apparently you need major consequences in order to see it. Good luck. You're gonna need it.

Dave31

This is a witch hunt. According to you, anyone who says they can control their drinking or who makes any effort to drink moderately is an alcoholic in-denial who is doomed... clearly there is nothing I would ever be able to say to make you think otherwise because you do not respond to logic.

I appreciate that you are trying to help me, and I thank everyone who has been helpful in this thread.

jimhere

Once again-you are trying to convince the man instead of helping him find his own truth.

Dave31

I have not made any personal attacks... surely saying that alcoholics are people who lack the willpower and resolve to control their drinking is simply stating an unpalatable fact isn't it?

I am glad I found this forum because it has certainly made me realise that I am not like those people.

jimhere

I'm glad for you. I'm glad that when I was new and confused I ran into some people in an AA meeting that weren't there because I might be alcoholic. They were there because they were alcoholic and they said they could help me find out the truth for myself.