Tazman53

Amalie alcoholism is a disease of the body, the mind, & of the soul, vitamins, eating good balanced meals, and taking care of myself physically has helped me mentally and spiritually.

I have found that all three feed upon each other, I am finding the more spirtually fit I get, the more mentally fit I become, leading me to become more physically fit.

They all feed upon each other, I quit smoking a year after I got sober, mentally and spiritually I have become more aware of how important my physical well being needs to be. I have been seeing my doctor on a regular basis and listening to what she tells me to do or not do, I am eating better and continue to take vitamins, I am now going to the gym on a regular basis.

For me my sobriety came in phases, detox led to me freeing myself from the physical addiction to alcohol, spiritualirty led me to overcome the mental obsession to alcohol, once I hit this point I have found that I need to take care and try and improve all 3 areas of me that alcohol was destroying, those being the physical, mental and spiritual parts of me, each feeds off of the other.

For me there was no way nutrition alone was going to lead to sobriety, detox would have never kept me sober, the spiritual is what led me to long sobriety, but to ignore my body and mental state would harm my spirtual state.

Amelie48

I agree with you. Really, the point Im making is that proper nutrition goes a long way to helping with one of the most difficult aspects of staying sober - it really does reduce cravings - more than was acknowledged traditionally - so helps to free your mind up to attend to those other things. The synergistic effect is exponential once you get the hang of it. But there is still the early stages of needing support and resolve - that initial hump - the one that most of us fall at - is still there to be got over - after that first week or so this sort of intensive recovery diet with supplements really does help.

A thing I found amazing for anxiety and panic was calcium and magnesium. Alcohol seriously depletes your stocks of those two - if I take a combined supplement tab I will feel calmer within ten minutes. As with anything you must not overdo it of course and once your body has recovered, then you ought to get what you need from what you eat.

nandm

Alcoholism also depletes the body of B vitamins such as Thiamine. I strongly believe that nutrition, vitamins, and minerals can be a very important part of recovery because the disease is one that not only affects on mentally and spiritually it also affects the body. Most of us by the time we come to recovery have beat our bodies up quite a bit. I know for me I am still working on the nutritional and wellness component of my recovery.

For me I have to balance the three areas to feel peace and serenity. Balance can be a difficult thing and it is something I have to constantly work on as it it difficult for me to achieve. I have always been one to have the pendulum swinging in a huge arc rather than centered. In sobriety it does not swing quite so wide but I still have a long way to go.

Zanthos

I appreciate hearing about what this book has to say and Amelie's efforts in posting her thoughts about it. Reading through this thread, though, has me wondering something.

What does "curing alcoholism" mean? I'm sure it means different things to different people.

In my view, my alcoholism is "cured" because the major active symptom no longer exhibits itself. That symptom was drinking compulsively, wanting to stop, and being unable to.

Today, I no longer drink compulsively, I have stopped, and I am able to refrain from drinking again. Today.

Now the nature of my "cure" was such that I have absolutely no interest in drinking anymore. I have been taught how to live my life and conduct my person in such a way that on a day to day basis I FEEL better than anything I ever experienced through alcohol or drugs.

The most interesting question to my mind is this: what if I COULD drink with the knowledge that I would not fall back into a very painful pattern of compulsive, damaging consumption of alcohol? What if I could enjoy a glass or two of beer, or part of a fantastic bottle of wine, or the rich, smoky flavor of a highly refined single malt scotch whiskey? What if I could enjoy the physical sensations and the warm happy glow produced by a couple of drinks without risk of resuming a damaging pattern of alcoholic drinking? Would I?

As much as I try to decide that question for myself, I can't come to an answer. Because the reason I am "cured" of my alcoholism is that I have learned how to treat an even deeper and more profound problem: how to live life. Everything I've learned in recovery addresses the highly dysfunctional way I reacted to the fact that I am alive. The program of recovery and mental/emotional/spiritual development that has been taught to me has me fully engaged in the most interesting and rewarding effort I've ever made: living each day in a way that enhances my fitness as a human being. This challenge presents itself as a lifetime occupation and I am enjoying the process immensely. I also have a whole lot of work ahead of me!

So as hard as I might try, I can't wrap my head around enjoying a couple of drinks (if I could) and squaring that with my involvement in improving who I am on a daily basis. Even if a couple of drinks could be "harmless", they wouldn't square with my desire to improve my ability to experience joy, awe, gratitude and what has become the comforting mystery of Life through further developing my new way of seeing the world and acting in it.

Now, as someone who drinks lots of coffee and has yet to quit smoking tobacco, I have to acknowledge that there may be a large level of BS in what I'm saying. I don't know. But given my personal history and experience with alcohol, even if I could drink, drinking would not be consistent with the only thing I've found that makes me glad to be alive.

p.s. On the more basic question of physical harm caused by alcoholism and the role of good nutrition and physical health in contributing to recovery, there is no question in my mind that physical health (metabolic and otherwise) is an extremely important, even necessary, component of spiritual well-being. I often hear others emphasizing the "spiritual" nature of their beings. My understanding is that first and foremost I am a biological entity, a living organism, an animal and primate. My biology is the substrate and foundation of any "spiritual" qualities I may experience in life.

nandm

I struggle with the word "cured" in relation to alcoholism or drug addiction. Simply because I know that I have to work daily to treat my disease and prevent a relapse back into an active case of the disease. Although I no longer experience the physical cravings I do still have to work on others areas of my life to keep those cravings from creeping back up. I see alcoholism as similiar to diabetes. Someone who is a diabetic (not yet insulin dependent) can many times prevent their disease from worsening by a proper diet and medication. They can essentially present with normal blood sugar levels yet they are not cured of the disease of diabetes. The symptoms are under control but yet they still have to work daily to keep the symptoms away. The alcoholic is no different. The symptoms can be controlled but only through daily work. Once that work is stopped the disease returns.

Just my thoughts on "cure".

Zanthos

I totally agree. I just used the word "cured" the way I did because others talk about "curing" alcoholism.

One thing that appears to be my experience however:

First there was the basic level of treatment: when I first stopped drinking, I couldn't stand to be who and what I was. So I was taught to use honesty, hope, reliance, faith, responsibility, patience, humility, prayer and mediation, etc. to treat the damaged human being that I was.

Next, because that program of treatment works, I found I was no longer so damaged. Imperfect? Yes. Very. But not entirely dysfunctional. Even healthy some respects in my lifestyle and mental and emotional patterns. So I stay with it because it is a self-gratifying process. It feels good. That's the daily maintenance part for me.

Beyond that, one of two things: I will continue to practice what I've learned and change and grow in whatever way Life/God has in store for me. OR, I will stop practicing what I've learned and start falling back into old patterns of thought, feeling and action -- patterns which have always been associated in me with an intense discomfort and dis-ease, and which if left unchecked will lead to my being in a very high state of existential pain. If that pain becomes acute enough, I was act out in an angry and destructive way. Maybe by using again, maybe by inflicting harm on others. Maybe both. I don't know. In some ways, it is better to be an addict and act out those intense feelings of discomfort by attempting to medicate myself rather than striking out against others.

In any case, that's how I see it. I have a condition, perhaps something like diabetes. With diabetes, everyday I need to do something because my body does not manufacture something I need on a daily basis. If I don't take it, I feel sick. With my condition, which is just as much my humanity as it is my alcoholism, there are things I need and now want to do everyday because if I do not I feel sick.

nandm

Thanks Zanthos. I understood what you were referring to I was just throwing my couple of cents in. I do like the way you explained it in your reply to my post. I was very well stated.

Amelie48

Hi People

These posts are great. A few things which I wondered about on reading the latest (cuaght up in family stuff for a week or so). While Im under no illusion about the devastation otherwise known as acoholism and all the warped thinking and self-delusion that goes with it, I dont believe it is a disease as such. In the same way that banging your ahead against the wall results in bruises and maybe concussion, drinking alcohol is beating up on your insides and brain chemistry - which in turn messes with your thoughts. If you are already in some way injured through inadequate nutrition (and sadly even many seemingly healthy people are) then you will quickly or even immediately throw your chemistry out so that cravings and dependency set in fast. For others, we keep trashing our insides with alcohol until we get to the same point sooner or later.) It's possible to do permanent damage in either scenario and so end up with a permanent susceptibility to alcoholism. For this group, alcohol is out of the question. I'm not attempting to give up alcohol so that I can get to that false nirvana known as controlled or moderate drinking. Id really like to get to where the whole disgusting business is simply not a consideration - to get it out of my life. While I accept that is not a goal to be achieved overnight - face it, if we spend 10, 15 or 20 years getting ourselves into this mess, we can at least expect to have to spend a few getting out of it - with all that has to be considered - spiritual, physical and otherwise. As with almost everything in life, there is an issue of degree here. Some of us may well be more affected or damaged than others, but we are all alcoholics. Additionally, we wear our condition differently just as people with disability do. Someone I know who has cerebral palsy said to me once that she was amazed by how stupid doctors could be in this regard. 'The assumption is that each person is affected in the same way, and of course we are not at all. We have similar general symptoms but each of us has the condition in a unique way'. I think the same is true of alcoholism and alcoholics. This is what deterred me from AA - it is so absolute about itself - it effectively claims infallibility in that everything is by reference to the book - the idea that the book may not be perfect seems to be some sort sacrilelge. AA works brilliantly for some people but it just made me feel lousy, depressed and ultimately alienated - especially when people got angry with me for asking questions or noticing inconsistencies. I didnt set out to be criticial I was just being me at my most genuine. It didnt seem that I could take from it what I needed and not what I didn't. The sad thing is, because AA now almost monopolises alcohol treatment there are very few other sources of help. Which is why I ended up on some orthomolecular website on the other side of the globe! Having said all that, I dont want to knock anything that helps as many people as AA does anymore than Id like to claim my religion is better than anyone else's. Each to his own and there are many good things about AA that I admire, despite my experiences.

Ireland is riddled with alcoholism. Time was when I used to be angry that our national caricature was that of the drunk and to be fair, that was undeserved for a long while. We used to have the highest number of tee totallers of any country in Europe. However, that has all changed since we became a wealthy country and the statistics here are frightening. The alcohol industry has major influence in government and prevents just about every attempt that is made to tackle the problem nationallly. Suicide among young people is soaring (men especially) and binge drinking is now very visible every weekend in our towns and cities. What is the situation in the USA? Are the figures as bad there? The UK is going the same way as in Ireland. Other European countries are much better.

My nutritionist is working out a good programme for me - I thought Id be well on my way by now but as AA says too, you have to be in the right frame of mind. Im coming at this as steadily as I can - winding a few things down and making sure that I can give it the effort and attention which I know from previous efforts that it takes.

B vitamins: - these seem to be very important - especially for balancing mood and humour, from everything Ive read. Im gong to do yoga and practice a form of religion which is mainly silent worship.

My apologies folks too for hogging the air time, as it were. This is a lonely predicament - there are not too many people I can really talk to about this.

Steve58

Amelie,

You are not alone in your thoughts. I have read your posts, and your thinking has a lot of merit. Although I don’t follow the supplement regime, I am a big believer in the theories behind “The Body Ecology” diet. It has worked for me. I don’t buy the disease model. I think that was invented by the drug and health care industry, and that label was all about insurance claims and funding.

I believe alcoholism is primarily in the brain. I think alcoholism is more a symptom than a disease. It is a symptom of a body and a mind that are out of balance, caused by abuse of alcohol (or other drug) and “stinkin thinkin”.

Granted, years of heavy drinking can cause physiological changes in the brain and the body, and each person is different as to degree. But I believe these effects are reversible to some extent, again varies with the person.

Please keep posting, we’re all interested in your progress.

Steve

Tazman53

Please explain why a childs liver who has never had a drop to drink in its life processes alcohol exactly like an alcoholics liver? BTW both of this childs parents are diagnosed alcoholics.

Next expalin why a child of non-alcoholic parents liver processes alcohol like a normal person?

I highly reccommend any one who doubts that alcoholism is a disease read one of 2 books, both of which are compilations of years and years of medical and scientific studies on alcoholism:
"Under the Influence"
"Beyond the Influence"

I keep an open mind on all things and will be the first one to admit I do not have the knowledge of researchers who have spent thousands of hours conducting thousands of tests and studies with the most modern methods who have arrived at the fact that alcoholism is a disease.

Facts are facts, plain pure and simple, opinions are like armpits, everyone has a few, some opinions are formed by facts, some are formed simply on feelings or beleifs, some armpits stink, some don't.

Keep in mind there was a day and a time when most men did not beleive scientist when they said the world was round, thier belief in a flat world did not make the round world flat, they could beleive with all thier might that the world was flat, even though it was then as it is now a fact that the world was round.

Steve58

There is some merit to those studies, but a simple google search will show that most of them also cite personality, environmental and a host of other contributing factors. Yes, some people are born that way, no doubt. But read most of the stories here, most are people that have drank for years and are self-made. Even most of those that were “kick started”, on the average, took many years to get where they are.

So it is not inconceivable that the effects could be reversed to various degrees in some people. Science has come a long way in 25 years since the first “under the influence” book was published. We are learning every day about the body, and there is still so much more to learn.

Just as AA is not everyone’s answer, there is no one size fits all to getting through an addiction. While I don’t know for sure is there are natural ways to fully or partially reverse years of drinking, I believe the idea has both merit and hope for many. Our bodies are very adaptable. They adapt to alcohol. Is it unreasonable to assume they cant “unadapt”

Facts? Now that’s good for a laugh. Your own example shows just how valid the facts of the day are. Studies, another joke. Who is funding them?

Before you think I am just trying to reinforce my own denial, 10,000 facts and studies won’t change what I know about myself. And that is that alcohol isn’t doing me any good. I’m better off without it, so I’m focusing my life on better things.

Just my 2 cents.

S

Nicky200

I am so sick of these rip off snake oil peddlers with their G***D miracle cures. I put on a really nasty email to some scumbag out there thats advertising for sobriety in 21 days. Thats an impossible claim, and its really expensive. These people belong in jail. The only thing out there that works outside the normal channels is that ebook called How I stopped drinking by fisher. Maybe there are others, but I haven't found them, and the idea that some nutritionist is saying they can cure alcoholism with vitamins?????, and of course when we are desperate, we'll reach out. Sorry, but I get really incensed about people taking advantage of sick people who are desperate to get well. I've been in that situation many times, and we are vulnerable when we're in pain.

Nicky

CarolD

Nicky....
Welcome to our SR Alcoholism Forum

Steve58

Hi Nicky,

Welcome to SR. You are so right in your anger at "snake oil salesman". Sobriety is not the hard part, it's staying sober. And in that respect, it is not unlike losing weight. It involves more than a few days effort. It involves a change of lifestyle.

Consumption of alcohol, above normal levels, does cause changes in the body over time, the same as any other bad food that we ingest. It is not unreasonable to believe that when we remove one substance our bodies have been conditioned to rely on, that the introduction of others could help moderate the change (i.e. reduce cravings, nourish organs that have been deprived).

Each of us has do determine our own situation, and make our own decisions on what is helpful in our new life style, and what is BS. If it looks too good to be true, it probably is! I believe my diet choices have helped me, and kept me from going off the deep end. Or maybe it’s just in my mind, which is fine, because I believe the mind has the most power over the body and addiction. AA seems to be proof of that, total immersion in a non-drinking lifestyle.

Anyway, I hope you stick around and tell us more about you. We value every members input and experiences.

Steve

Amelie48

There is nothing of the 'snake oil salesman' scenario about the programme Im following - and that's for sure. No 21-day fixes or anything of that sort promised - just a committment to giving as much consideration as possible to ending the alochol addiction - over a two year period. That includes working on the spiritual, psychological, emotional, lifestyle and physical elements of the problem. The first four have tended to dominate our understanding of alcoholism in the past while the phsycial effects of alcohol on the body and brain have featured relatively superficially in traditional approaches to tackling alcohol addiction. There has been remarkably little in depth research or information made available about exactly what alcohol does to all of the organs and how. Stopping drinking is only the beginning of the story. You need to recover in every sense of the word.

Right at the moment, for example, my daily regimen is :


Glass of cooled boiled water with a cap of apple vinegar to increases the alkalinity of my body (most of us have over acidified our bodies with unhealthy foods and alcohol)

High quality pro biotic powder half an hour before breakfast - to restore the gut to full health - gut health is seriously disimproved by drinking and bad diet.



A desertspoon of FLAX OIL - full of the healthiest kind of fats (Omega 3 and 6) and essential for healthy brain function.

I also take high quality supplements:
Vitmain B complex - vital for healthy brain function and mental health.

Tryptophan - again essential for brain function and an entirely natural amino acid which is essential for the production of serotonin (the body's natural mood lightener). Alcohol seriously impairs your ability to produce serotonin and years of abuse mean it needs help to get back to normal production.

Vitamin C

Fibre Complex to keep the gut busy and functioning well.

Glutamine - stabilises blood sugar levels (the adrenal system of alcoholics is exhausted if not damaged and so unstable - mood swings etc result). Also suppresses cravings considerably. Helps to speed healing of ulcers.

Anti-oxidant and amino acid compound to help heal a weakened neuroendocrine system.

Calcium and magnesium

Milk thistleto aid liver function.

No addictive foods whatsoever: no sugar, tea or coffee, anything made with white flower, no processed or ready made foods. Addictive foods feed the addiction and cravings - substituting Coke, coffee or sweets for alcohol to get over cravings is a very bad move - it keeps the cravings and viloent sugar assaults on the body alive. The sooner the addictive foods are taken out of the diet, the quicker your body is restored to equilibrium and the sooner the cravings go away. Lots of salad, fruit, vegetables, nuts and seeds, herbs, fish and white meat. I dont eat wheat - but have rye and other sorts of bread. When I first looked at what was allowed I despaired but in fact the food is fabulous once you work out how to work with what is allowed - and I am never hungry. I don't touch dairy food either - hugely implicated in male and female cancers.

I had all this sort of advice before and it just seemed like a load more complication on top of worrying about staying off alcohol, so I ingored it. Now, however, I am kicking myself for not having listened sooner. Aside from giving me plenty to think about (it requires effort to get it right), you really do feel so much better - and so much better able to cope. The first few days are still a challenge but they werent as hard as they were before. I feel much stronger and more determined - a lot calmer about what I am attempting. There is still a long road to climb but all I can say now is that this is the best I have ever felt about staying sober and that in itself is worth something.

I just pray to God that I can continue to feel this way. I had a good test today when something very stressful happened - really very stressful over a period of two hours. Afterwards I could feel blood pressure was soaring, I was shaking slightly and I thought 'a glass of wine would help fix this feeling'. It was right in the middle of what would have been my daily drinking slot, too - the most vulnerable time. I had a slight pang over a minute or so but then had no difficulty putting the thought away as stupid and actually recognised that I physically did not want it - in the same way say a person might refuse a third or fourth potato at dinner. There was none of the anger and struggle with the thing that I have had before - just a pang of wistfulness at worst.

Hope this is in some way useful and interesting to others!

Tazman53

I would have to assume you have not read "Under the Influence" which was written quite a few years ago, it goes into great depth on the physical effects of alcohol and the body and brain, the sequel to this book "Beyond the Influence" also covers that extremely well. Both books also delve quite deeply into how diet helps in recovery.

I am not knocking your book/program in any way, the only thing I am bringing out is that it is far from the first of its kind to delve into the physical effects on the body and brain, not into how nutrition is an important part of recovery.

When I was going through detox they had a daily nutrion class that explained in depth what types of foods, minerals, and vitamins would help in ones recovery, I would be lying if I said I got much out of those classes except that I needed to work on nutrition as well as all other areas of my recovery.

Steve58

Amelie,

Thanks for the updates. Your program is similiar to what I have been following, only more indepth. I am happy for your prograss, and look forward to hearing more. Although I am far from "cured" by AA standards, I do believe it keeps it keeps the addiction at bay, and has cut my consumption dramatically.


"No addictive foods whatsoever: no sugar, tea or coffee, anything made with white flower, no processed or ready made foods. Addictive foods feed the addiction and cravings - substituting Coke, coffee or sweets for alcohol to get over cravings is a very bad move - it keeps the cravings and viloent sugar assaults on the body alive"

TOO FUNNY, since I hear constantly about coffee, candy, donuts being passed around at AA meetings, It's like they have not idea that even though they may not be drinking, they are feeding the cravings big time, making abstaing all the more difficult. I wonder if that has anything to do with their unremarkable success rate.

Thanks again for this useful post!
Steve

bugsworth

Steve, I was always amazed by the sugar pushing too! I too follow a very low carb diet, no sugar unless it is in fruit, the results are amazing!

Steve58

I find it amazing how little value people put on diet when our diets cause or encourage an ever growing list of our modern ills.

We have a general rule in our house, the more processed it is, the worse it probably is.

"Alcoholics usually have candida that has spread to the liver and as a result, experience powerful cravings from the overgrowth of yeast organisms AND an addiction to sugar and more alcohol. "

"While your doctor may not know about candida or how to treat it, 70% of Americans have candida, according to Rice University studies.

"If you have candida, you may find yourself drawn to sugary foods and alcohol, so it's not surprising that many alcoholics turn to carbohydrate - rich food when they stop drinking. "

(All quotes from the body ecology diet website.)

Candida does not usually go away on it's own, it usually gets worse. I often wonder is this is why alcoholics never seem to be able to get the thought of drinking out of their heads. Seems these little micro-organisms have a way of makeing the brain an offer it cant refuse.

Anyway, whatever works, thats what I always say.

Peace,
Steve

Gramps

Just one old man's opinion. Have been observing a regular pattern of new gurus over the years, each with their own interpretation on alcoholism. And each with some new cure. They usually attack AA, the Big Book, and the Program with phony statistics and wild claims that AA does not work. Their reasons become clear when they begin to present themselves through self-aggrandizement accompanied with credentials that would appear to have been found in a Box of Jacker Jacks.

The usual snow job appeals to those folks who are still trying to walk a tight rope and are having difficulty deciding if they are alcoholic or not. They present an easier softer way to control ones alcoholism; with less pain, fewer admissions, less work, and the big lie that they may be able to drink someday like normal people once again. For those potential alcoholics, this may be true but only if they have not lost control over their drinking. In many cases, they will be able to bounce back after a few drinks or even a full-blown bender. They may still be young and have the mental proclivity and disposition to recover from some self-induced period of drinking. That is because they are still only potentionaly alcoholic. They still are able to retain some modicum of control. They may be periodic, who only occasionally will find a reason to justify a long drinking bought and still life to fight again another day. Any numbers of these dear folks simply do not fit the definition of an alcoholic. They yet do not suffer from a seemingly hopeless state of mind and body. They do not yet have the compulsion to drink, in hopes of remaining in a state of euphoria by drinking to capacity. When a person has reached this stage, they no longer need a reason to justify their behavior. Most often now they may begin to drink for “no reason” and can no longer guarantee when they will return, show up, in what condition they may arrive or what their actions may be while in complete submission to their alcoholism.
In plain English, they now deminstraight their complete lack or control over their seemingly hopeless state of mind and body. At this point things can and usually get dangerous; car accidents, hostile behavior occurs, disregard of morays and judgment are thrown to the wind, police cars begin arriving in their proximity, jails, loss of jobs, families, friends become distant and prefer not to be involved in anymore of the alcoholic’s nightmarish behavior. None of which will the alcoholic take responsibility for by repeating that it is always someone else’s fault. At this point, they have clearly lost control but somehow will continue to minimize their use or abuse of alcohol because they can see abandoning its use is the only way out of their dilemma. Abstinence is not appealing.
If they are lucky by this time, they have come to the attention of the court system, who now are content to shove them off on AA to get help. They are sent packing with court slips in hand to us to fix, because many years ago our founders wished to be co-operative with the community. However, the community has over stepped the bounds of reason, in hope that we can “cure them.” Those that are sent to AA do not really wish to be here, but do see it as an opportunity to play the system and go along with the joke. The same is true of those forced into treatment facilities; they have no desire to stay sober. They only wish to get their heads clear long enough to return to the way of life that brought them to the attention of the system in the first place.

Now this may not be true for all of them but based on my 37 years of sobriety I would say that approximately 97% of them are not really interested in surrendering and even if they actually need help, they are still not willing to go to any length to get the help that AA has to offer; Free – NO Charge, No Blue Cross, No doctor’s bills, and no phony program offered by a vitamin salesmen.

I submit to you, if the supposed success rate of AA has been diminished during the last 30 or so years, it has been because of using our program as a landfill for those near do wells who still have some control if not over their alcoholism but do have in using the system to skate by any responsibility the court might use because of over crowding of jail space.

In conclusion, my original intent was to serve a warning to those who might fall prey to this latest theory of an “Orthomolecular Nutritionist” or what ever, for being a cure for alcoholism. Every so often, someone comes up with a pill or new cure, not all of which have had great success regardless of phony claims. The really sad part is that these snake oil salesmen are not held accountable for the deaths that are caused by their selfish nonsense.

I will give you a statistic from Saint Thomas in Akron that was common knowledge when I came into the program. The average untreated alcoholic will die at or before age 52 and that is if that person only uses alcohol with nothing else added to fuel the fire. There are over 2,000,000 (two million) folks world wide in the program today, who have found a new sober way of life. When I came in there were approximately only 150,000. I fail to see that as supporting a failure rate of 97% as purported by the latest guru nutritionist. I am not against considering my nutrition; I am also a type II diabetic and am very aware what can affect my physical and mental well-being. But I am not going to avoid AA, stop reading my Big Book, avoid going to meetings or working with others to satisfy the latest of a long line of supposed cures that I have seen kill those less suspecting than I have been over the years.

If any or all of this sounds a bit harsh, please recall that as far as I am concerned, some near do well came into my program to accost me and my fellows to inform us that we suffer a 97% failure rate and that we do not have a disease called alcoholism. Well dah, should I be slightly PO’d, I hope I have at least been somewhat tolerant of their ignorance. But I have great distant for those who would profit from someone’s illness and possibly put them in harms way or possible death. If nothing else please know I speak from experience and not theory, I have seen many cases where those weaker individuals followed some other unproven path, which turned out to be a road to their demise.

Old adage, if it works, don’t fix it. Better to stick around and be a sober alcoholic than a dead drunk.
Love and best to all, Gramps – living somewhere in the Great Northwest just one day at a time.