Staying sober in AA.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Zion, Illinois
Posts: 3,411
Dan and Patsy,
Does the phrase, "pissing up a rope" conjure up any mental pictures for you? Personally I'd rather look at lilacs, roses, or even poison ivy. Come to think of it, this topic is starting to make me itch.
Does the phrase, "pissing up a rope" conjure up any mental pictures for you? Personally I'd rather look at lilacs, roses, or even poison ivy. Come to think of it, this topic is starting to make me itch.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Boston
Posts: 710
Does the phrase, "pissing up a rope" conjure up any mental pictures for you? Personally I'd rather look at lilacs, roses, or even poison ivy. Come to think of it, this topic is starting to make me itch.
Breaking the Traditions for purpose of personal gain.....makes me itch also. LOL
Yes I hear you Music and respect completely what you have to share. Thank you.
Love ya
Patsy
But Very, Very Bruisable...
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Palm Springs, Ca.
Posts: 548
Ahhhhh..."rose" colored glasses...the edited version. The names have been removed to protect all parties, especially me. Now please join us for a re-enactment of the thread you just witnessed:
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It has been my experience that once in awhile we need to remind members that certain forums are "Topic Specific." Politely, of course.
Some may not realize that In AA we have a primary purpose. The Preamble of AA ( it's in the beginning of the book titled "Alcoholics Anonymous" The name of the book became the name of the organization), and our Primary Purpose need to be respected because without those, then we're not really a group at all, just several individuals. We may even forget what it was like when we were out there...
For those who are not familiar with it, I would be honored to share it with you:
THE AA PREAMBLE
ALCOHOLICS ANONYMOUS is a fellowship of men and women who share their experience, strength and hope with each other that they may solve their common problem and help others to recover from alcoholism.
The only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking. There are no dues or fees for A.A. membership; we are self-supporting through our own contributions. A.A. is not allied with any sect, denomination, politics, organization or institution; does not wish to engage in any controversy; neither endorses nor opposes any causes.
Our primary purpose is to stay sober and help other alcoholics to achieve sobriety.
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I feel that the topic, and the discussion, are well within the boundaries of Experience, Strength and Hope. I need you to know that I feel strongly about this...
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I appreciate your feelings, and I want you to know that I hear you. I have been a member of AA for many years now, and it's important that mis-information does not become "Fact." In AA, it is vitally important that we keep our discussions quite limited. Too many organizations (like the Washingtonians) lost their focus and then lost their way. AA cannot be everything to everyone. That's why we have the very thing I mentioned above...a Primary Purpose. How are the meetings where you are? I've wanted to visit there for many years. Maybe someday...
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Hmmmmm, I guess it's possible that we're a bit more liberal here. At least in the meetings I go to. We discuss books other than the Big book, but we also explain that any other book is an "addition too.." the Big Book. What matters the most, no matter the topic, is the newcomer...i think we can agree on that.
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You know, having different kinds of meetings is great. But there is only one Alcoholics Anonymous, and it comes with quite a few time-honored Traditons and Principles. We should probably introduce the new person who is interested in AA to those things first. Not to be a censor, but to avoid confusion. If someone comes to an AA meeting and walks away even more confused then when they got there, we have truly missed the mark. At the same time, a person not interested in AA or its Traditions has many options. I would think a person not interested in AA or its concepts wouldnt want to hang out on an AA Forum, would you?
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Of course. All of us have the right to read and discuss anything we choose to. And we have the ability to discuss them without creating controversy. Thats what makes life so grand. And here on the Alcoholics Anonymous Forum at SR we welcome anyone interested in learning more about AA. There is no need for debate, not when there are so many ways that people can and do recover. Wouldn't you agree?
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Well, I do have to agree that controversy, debate and confusion aren't good for anyone, and especially not for the newcomer. I try to set an example because you never know who's lurking. I'm sure it would be just as easy to discuss other books in a non-specific forum. And that way there's no "Personalities Before Principles." Your right-Life IS Grand!
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It has been my experience that once in awhile we need to remind members that certain forums are "Topic Specific." Politely, of course.
Some may not realize that In AA we have a primary purpose. The Preamble of AA ( it's in the beginning of the book titled "Alcoholics Anonymous" The name of the book became the name of the organization), and our Primary Purpose need to be respected because without those, then we're not really a group at all, just several individuals. We may even forget what it was like when we were out there...
For those who are not familiar with it, I would be honored to share it with you:
THE AA PREAMBLE
ALCOHOLICS ANONYMOUS is a fellowship of men and women who share their experience, strength and hope with each other that they may solve their common problem and help others to recover from alcoholism.
The only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking. There are no dues or fees for A.A. membership; we are self-supporting through our own contributions. A.A. is not allied with any sect, denomination, politics, organization or institution; does not wish to engage in any controversy; neither endorses nor opposes any causes.
Our primary purpose is to stay sober and help other alcoholics to achieve sobriety.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I feel that the topic, and the discussion, are well within the boundaries of Experience, Strength and Hope. I need you to know that I feel strongly about this...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I appreciate your feelings, and I want you to know that I hear you. I have been a member of AA for many years now, and it's important that mis-information does not become "Fact." In AA, it is vitally important that we keep our discussions quite limited. Too many organizations (like the Washingtonians) lost their focus and then lost their way. AA cannot be everything to everyone. That's why we have the very thing I mentioned above...a Primary Purpose. How are the meetings where you are? I've wanted to visit there for many years. Maybe someday...
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hmmmmm, I guess it's possible that we're a bit more liberal here. At least in the meetings I go to. We discuss books other than the Big book, but we also explain that any other book is an "addition too.." the Big Book. What matters the most, no matter the topic, is the newcomer...i think we can agree on that.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You know, having different kinds of meetings is great. But there is only one Alcoholics Anonymous, and it comes with quite a few time-honored Traditons and Principles. We should probably introduce the new person who is interested in AA to those things first. Not to be a censor, but to avoid confusion. If someone comes to an AA meeting and walks away even more confused then when they got there, we have truly missed the mark. At the same time, a person not interested in AA or its Traditions has many options. I would think a person not interested in AA or its concepts wouldnt want to hang out on an AA Forum, would you?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Of course. All of us have the right to read and discuss anything we choose to. And we have the ability to discuss them without creating controversy. Thats what makes life so grand. And here on the Alcoholics Anonymous Forum at SR we welcome anyone interested in learning more about AA. There is no need for debate, not when there are so many ways that people can and do recover. Wouldn't you agree?
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Well, I do have to agree that controversy, debate and confusion aren't good for anyone, and especially not for the newcomer. I try to set an example because you never know who's lurking. I'm sure it would be just as easy to discuss other books in a non-specific forum. And that way there's no "Personalities Before Principles." Your right-Life IS Grand!
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Member
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Northern CA
Posts: 1,432
Having read the book, I can simplify his themes about AA. His point is that meetings have lost their focus and purpose, that 'old-fashioned' AA is more effective, that the governing body of AA has allowed this loss of focus, that the treatment industry has corrupted (my term, not his) the process, and that the way to get sober is to work the steps--not talk about them.
He is a longtime member of AA with many years of sobriety, who has left the program but remains active in 'the fellowship' (which I gather is 'old-fashioned AA').
As such, he is describing a debate that seems to be internal to AA.
There is no need for debate, not when there are so many ways that people can and do recover. Wouldn't you agree?
No, of course I wouldn't agree. So I guess this thread needs to be moved to the Alcoholism forum. And when Patsy agrees to stay entirely out of that forum, I'll agree to stay entirely out of this one. Deal?
Don
He is a longtime member of AA with many years of sobriety, who has left the program but remains active in 'the fellowship' (which I gather is 'old-fashioned AA').
As such, he is describing a debate that seems to be internal to AA.
There is no need for debate, not when there are so many ways that people can and do recover. Wouldn't you agree?
No, of course I wouldn't agree. So I guess this thread needs to be moved to the Alcoholism forum. And when Patsy agrees to stay entirely out of that forum, I'll agree to stay entirely out of this one. Deal?
Don
Member
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Boston
Posts: 710
Hmmmmmm let me see if I have learned anything at all from Jon's example?
Yes, I believe I did, Thank you Music and Jon
So: Don....I'm sure it would be just as easy to discuss other books in a non-specific forum. And that way there's no "Personalities Before Principles."
Yes, I believe I did, Thank you Music and Jon
So: Don....I'm sure it would be just as easy to discuss other books in a non-specific forum. And that way there's no "Personalities Before Principles."
Member
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Northern CA
Posts: 1,432
From the book:
"I believe that World Services and the fellowship itself are also partly responsible for the current state of AA. 'The Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions' and 'Living Sober' are two books published by World Services that directly contradict the basic text, Alcoholics Anonymous. Even though rehabs share the guilt of what has happened in AA, had earlier members stood firm in their efforts to 'practice these principles in all [their] affairs,' we may not have lost the essence of a Program that was so successful in the early years."
Of course, it would be great to discuss this book anywhere. I didn't realize this forum was only to talk about AA in its current form, among AA members, without dissent. Clearly there is dissent within AA, as this book illustrates. Dan, I guess this topic needs to be in a different forum.
Still waiting to see if I have a deal, Patsy....
Don
"I believe that World Services and the fellowship itself are also partly responsible for the current state of AA. 'The Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions' and 'Living Sober' are two books published by World Services that directly contradict the basic text, Alcoholics Anonymous. Even though rehabs share the guilt of what has happened in AA, had earlier members stood firm in their efforts to 'practice these principles in all [their] affairs,' we may not have lost the essence of a Program that was so successful in the early years."
Of course, it would be great to discuss this book anywhere. I didn't realize this forum was only to talk about AA in its current form, among AA members, without dissent. Clearly there is dissent within AA, as this book illustrates. Dan, I guess this topic needs to be in a different forum.
Still waiting to see if I have a deal, Patsy....
Don
But Very, Very Bruisable...
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Palm Springs, Ca.
Posts: 548
Hi Don!
How the hell have ya been?
Good Sunday Morning to all, and thank any and all powers (and non-powers) for a simply gorgeous day here in the desert...
So, anyone struggling with staying (or getting) sober today? I mean, hell..I can get angry and defensive and bent out of shape anywhere. But here? Whats the point? I'm a good addict...I want to see the whites of their eyes....
Now, back to anyone needing some help....
How the hell have ya been?
Good Sunday Morning to all, and thank any and all powers (and non-powers) for a simply gorgeous day here in the desert...
So, anyone struggling with staying (or getting) sober today? I mean, hell..I can get angry and defensive and bent out of shape anywhere. But here? Whats the point? I'm a good addict...I want to see the whites of their eyes....
Now, back to anyone needing some help....
But Very, Very Bruisable...
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Palm Springs, Ca.
Posts: 548
Pruners on the way!
Funny, Maureen and I were talking about moving back to Pasadena. Why? We both miss the fellowship there. I am not involved out here anywhere near the degree I was there. I am a people person who has been without people for awhile now, and it makes my soul hurt.
I really miss my old home group, by the way...Tuesday Night-Roses Road.
Really.
Funny, Maureen and I were talking about moving back to Pasadena. Why? We both miss the fellowship there. I am not involved out here anywhere near the degree I was there. I am a people person who has been without people for awhile now, and it makes my soul hurt.
I really miss my old home group, by the way...Tuesday Night-Roses Road.
Really.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 8,709
Now then...
The next right thing...
Roses.
Pink or red?
People.
It's the people above all, and their stories, that keep me coming back.
Hope you find your people again Jon.
They probably be waitin' for you anyway.
Ship the pruners Fed Ex will ya.
I don't trust Brown anymore, since the last episode.
The next right thing...
Roses.
Pink or red?
People.
It's the people above all, and their stories, that keep me coming back.
Hope you find your people again Jon.
They probably be waitin' for you anyway.
Ship the pruners Fed Ex will ya.
I don't trust Brown anymore, since the last episode.
Knucklehead
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Davenport, WA
Posts: 4,005
Originally Posted by Patsyd1
So: Don....I'm sure it would be just as easy to discuss other books in a non-specific forum. And that way there's no "Personalities Before Principles."
Paul J
Member
Join Date: May 2003
Location: El Paso, Tx
Posts: 5,862
In case anyone missed it, well worth the read.
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...4&postcount=26
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...4&postcount=26
Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: London
Posts: 448
When I take the chair in a real AA meeting I talk about what the hell I like. If I stay on topic, it is as a result of my conscience not anyone elses. I say things like I don't believe in sponsership, God or the suggested program and that the future is coming.
Some people ask me 'what am I doing there if I don't believe or want a spiritual solution. Well, putting aside the fact that I got sober in AA 22 years ago, lived through the program and belong, I stay because I can. Because AA members are not slaves to history. We are not slaves to primary purposes to the exclusion of truth.
Primary purposes are not censorship. We have rotating leadership for good reason. I can go to AA with a pair of purple underwear on my head and its my business. Newcomers need to realise that they are free. All traditions, steps etc. cannot be imposed upon the individual. They accept them if they want to, not as a condition of membership. I resist being controlled by others.
This forum differs from AA in that you could be evicted. In AA you can't be, no matter what your view. Just say no.
Some people ask me 'what am I doing there if I don't believe or want a spiritual solution. Well, putting aside the fact that I got sober in AA 22 years ago, lived through the program and belong, I stay because I can. Because AA members are not slaves to history. We are not slaves to primary purposes to the exclusion of truth.
Primary purposes are not censorship. We have rotating leadership for good reason. I can go to AA with a pair of purple underwear on my head and its my business. Newcomers need to realise that they are free. All traditions, steps etc. cannot be imposed upon the individual. They accept them if they want to, not as a condition of membership. I resist being controlled by others.
This forum differs from AA in that you could be evicted. In AA you can't be, no matter what your view. Just say no.
Knucklehead
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Davenport, WA
Posts: 4,005
Originally Posted by Andy F
When I take the chair in a real AA meeting I talk about what the hell I like. If I stay on topic, it is as a result of my conscience not anyone elses. I say things like I don't believe in sponsership, God or the suggested program and that the future is coming.
Some people ask me 'what am I doing there if I don't believe or want a spiritual solution. Well, putting aside the fact that I got sober in AA 22 years ago, lived through the program and belong, I stay because I can. Because AA members are not slaves to history. We are not slaves to primary purposes to the exclusion of truth.
Primary purposes are not censorship. We have rotating leadership for good reason. I can go to AA with a pair of purple underwear on my head and its my business. Newcomers need to realise that they are free. All traditions, steps etc. cannot be imposed upon the individual. They accept them if they want to, not as a condition of membership. I resist being controlled by others.
This forum differs from AA in that you could be evicted. In AA you can't be, no matter what your view. Just say no.
Some people ask me 'what am I doing there if I don't believe or want a spiritual solution. Well, putting aside the fact that I got sober in AA 22 years ago, lived through the program and belong, I stay because I can. Because AA members are not slaves to history. We are not slaves to primary purposes to the exclusion of truth.
Primary purposes are not censorship. We have rotating leadership for good reason. I can go to AA with a pair of purple underwear on my head and its my business. Newcomers need to realise that they are free. All traditions, steps etc. cannot be imposed upon the individual. They accept them if they want to, not as a condition of membership. I resist being controlled by others.
This forum differs from AA in that you could be evicted. In AA you can't be, no matter what your view. Just say no.
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