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Old 03-08-2005, 06:09 PM   #41 (permalink)
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I have many of the same questions Don.
A friend was going to download the .pdf today for me.
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Old 03-08-2005, 06:19 PM   #42 (permalink)
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It is a very sad description of his sister, who was clearly miserable in her sobriety.

Whats even sadder then the above, is to see someone who has absolutely no first hand experience or knowlege of AA, and yet finds it imperative in his own life, to have to down another program of recovery that has worked for millions. Now thats sad, and.... pretty darn miserable! LOL
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Old 03-08-2005, 06:23 PM   #43 (permalink)
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Here we go again.
...

I have this new hobby.
Html code and stuff, and little cute message boards.

Can I make one for you and Don, Patsy?
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Old 03-08-2005, 06:30 PM   #44 (permalink)
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Let's see...at a 90% failure rate, if it's worked for millions then it must have 'failed' tens of millions!
Go for it, Dan.
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Old 03-08-2005, 06:30 PM   #45 (permalink)
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Can I make one for you and Don, Patsy?
Well I can't speak for Don, but not for me, thank you anyways Dan.

Perhap, if you have the time Dan, you might want to give Don the directions to his very own "Friday Affirmations", that might help him to put action, to his own words.
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Old 03-08-2005, 06:35 PM   #46 (permalink)
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On second thought Don, all yours man
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Old 03-08-2005, 07:54 PM   #47 (permalink)
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I was just googling to see if I could find more info on the book mentioned up top.
I came across an interesting article out of UC Berkeley.
Might as well share it, as it follows the direction we seem to be heading in.
Quote:
Brandes said he was intensely curious to learn how AA, which in the United States is generally associated with Protestant faiths and a middle-class clientele striving to maintain sobriety, proliferates in a Mexican culture characterized by ardent Catholicism, poverty and often a hard-drinking machismo. What he learned, Brandes said, may add to the understanding of 12-step groups, in general, and of Latino participation in such groups.
Article.
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Old 03-08-2005, 08:05 PM   #48 (permalink)
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Read this
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Old 03-08-2005, 08:21 PM   #49 (permalink)
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Yeah, the ol' 12 step free zone stuff.
That's one of the oldest pages in it.
Better duck when someone see's it posted in this forum T2
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Old 03-08-2005, 08:35 PM   #50 (permalink)
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Yeah, the ol' 12 step free zone stuff.
That's one of the oldest pages in it.
Better duck when someone see's it posted in this forum T2
I had never seen that one before.But its OK.Im pretty sure everyone here at SR knows that I am a grateful member of Alcoholics Anonymous.
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Old 03-08-2005, 08:51 PM   #51 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by DangerousDan
I was just googling to see if I could find more info on the book mentioned up top.
I came across an interesting article out of UC Berkeley.
Might as well share it, as it follows the direction we seem to be heading in.


Article.
Man, there is one really, really funny typo in that story. But I'm not going to point it out--I'm chicken!
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Old 03-08-2005, 09:00 PM   #52 (permalink)
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Neurotics Anonymous
Maybe it wasn't a typo Don.
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Old 03-08-2005, 09:05 PM   #53 (permalink)
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Now that's funny!
Hey Dan have you finished it yet? Was waiting for your critique, before I head over to Amazon.
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Old 03-08-2005, 10:28 PM   #54 (permalink)
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Neurotics Anonymous
Maybe it wasn't a typo Don.
Well, it's just the women....
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Old 03-09-2005, 08:50 AM   #55 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Chy
Now that's funny!
Hey Dan have you finished it yet? Was waiting for your critique, before I head over to Amazon.
Like I said, my buddy downloaded the e-file yesterday.
I imagine he'll print a copy for me.
Shhhhhhhh.
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Old 03-09-2005, 03:32 PM   #56 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by DangerousDan
Yeah, the ol' 12 step free zone stuff.
That's one of the oldest pages in it.
Better duck when someone see's it posted in this forum T2
I can honestly say I have experienced much of what that page describes. Although, I doubt there is a conspiracy as far as the coersion. Our gov't and society are responsible for that and I think most Steppers would rather not have attendees that are forced to participate by the court system or treatment programs at their meetings. It's not benificial to either the person being forced or to the group. I was lucky to find a secular treatment center that exposed me to Choice Theory Recovery and to find alternative recovery organizations on the web. If I hadn't been exposed to these other ideas I doubt I would be sober and may not even be alive at this point. I don't believe there is one program that fits all addicts or one path to recovery. Choices are important to chemically dependent individuals who are looking for help as was shown in the project MATCH study.

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Old 03-09-2005, 03:54 PM   #57 (permalink)
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The essays at aa-deprogramming were written by individuals with considerable first-hand experience at AA. It is often commented here that I don't have that experience, so I can't know anything about the program. Those are people who know AA and have left it for myriad reasons.

It is fortunate that there are alternatives, as it doesn't benefit any program or individual when someone is coerced into attending. It also makes it even harder to get efficacy data about the program when a significant percentage of attendees aren't there voluntarily.

Getting back to the book in question in this thread. I guess I'm curious enough now to put down $9 and download it myself. The story of his sister isn't an indictment of AA in particular, though, as far as I can tell. It just reinforces something we all know: that it isn't just quitting drinking that is necessary. It sounds as though she was clinically depressed, suicidal -- problems way beyond the scope of any recovery program. As I said, she was miserable in her sobriety. I am just curious enough to read about why he thinks -- if indeed he does -- that her unhappiness could have been mitigated by a closer adherence to the tenets of the Big Book. I don't think anybody considers AA to be a cure for profound depression.

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Old 03-09-2005, 04:02 PM   #58 (permalink)
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"I don't think anybody considers AA to be a cure for profound depression."


Ahhhh.... but aren't there Depression Anonymous groups? I know there are OCD Anonymous groups and as a person who suffers from fairly severe OCD I just don't see how it could possibly apply to mental disorders or even dual diagnosis. These things require professional help, not faith healing.

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Old 03-09-2005, 04:28 PM   #59 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by doorknob
"I don't think anybody considers AA to be a cure for profound depression."


Ahhhh.... but aren't there Depression Anonymous groups? I know there are OCD Anonymous groups and as a person who suffers from fairly severe OCD I just don't see how it could possibly apply to mental disorders or even dual diagnosis. These things require professional help, not faith healing.

Paul J
There's also Dual Recovery Anonymous.
http://www.draonline.org/
Ask around here. Seems to work well for some.
Chock full o' steps too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by doorknob
These things require professional help, not faith healing.
Care to expand on the faith healing analogy Paul?
's okay if you don't though.
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Old 03-09-2005, 04:44 PM   #60 (permalink)
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Yeah, I've been do DRA... once. It was supposed to be a non smoking meeting but was held in the smoking room of the local Alano club. I'm really sensitive to nicotine, which is probably why I never became a smoker, and I bailed. As far as "faith healing", that is just how I characterize the concept of God removing drug or alcohol cravings, so called character defects, mental disorders or making the blind see and the crippled walk lol. Just my personal belief system.

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