Gal220

Hello everyone,

I have recently recommitted myself to meeting attendance and step work. I have suffered from depression and social anxiety, and for the last six years have sort of drifted away from any sort of socializing, including AA. So I have found a new sponsor, am doing a meeting a day, and am sort of starting from scratch again.

My sponsor mentioned something in passing about the 4th step that made me think her plan was for me to work it as if I had never done it before. I am willing to do anything my sponsor suggests, but I am curious what others' experienced have been.

I know a lot of people believe doing 10 and 11 daily should prevent a person from needing to do another 4th, and that makes sense and I completely respect that. However, I guess I am running on the assumption that perhaps I didn't do a thorough enough job or haven't been doing my 10th and 11th sufficiently. Anyway, I'm a mess right now and feel I need another go round.

So if you have ever redone a 4th, what did that look like? Did you re-list everything you had on your original in case you still had a resentment? Did you pick up from where you left off? My sponsor has asked me a couple of times what I would like to do, and I just don't know. That's kind of why I wanted a sponsor, lol!

Derringer

I had a "I'll die with this" secret, that I was not willing to cough up, didn't drink but got what you have.

Coughed it up in a 2nd 4th &5th

All good from then on.

The book does mention an "annual house cleaning" as a supplement to the regular 10th, as a more detailed and contemplative mini 4th step.

What you call it probably doesn't matter, if there is a build up of garbage you gotta take it out.

sugarbear1

I was guided through the steps at 2 weeks of sobriety (where I had to call my sponsor back in the room as I was still holding onto something)…..so we continued our 5th step for a bit before I delved into 6 & 7. I worked them again at 4 months of sobriety as I was becoming more clear-minded and felt "squirrely" so the steps helped....I worked the steps again at 8 months of sobriety as I was again, "squirrely" and couldn't sit still AND my sponsor has a rule of guiding people through the steps 3 times before they sponsor so they know the process of the step work AND the sponsor's role....I began sponsoring at 8 months of sobriety.....I worked them again at 18 months (apparently you can get terminated at work in sobriety), 2 years, and 4 years, and I will do them again near my 9 year anniversary this Spring.

I work the steps again as I am not the same person today as I was a month or two ago....and I need to keep my spirituality ahead of my alcoholism.

Not everyone agrees with this, but it keeps me sane and sober!

Gal220

So when you do it again, do you rehash all the old things you already addressed? Or just new things and things you didn't address the previous times? Like I said, I'm willing to do it any way my sponsor asks, but just curious how others have done it. I really thought I did a thorough job the first time, so I don't think I'm hanging on to anything I should have confessed. I suppose I kind of feel like my sponsor (and others) think there is some sort of tragedy or some horrible secret I'm hiding that made me depressed, and if I just let it out, all would be fixed. It's just not the case; I'm just a screwed up person trying to stay sober and find some peace.

Dave42001

Kudos on 6 years, great job!

I think it’s great you’re getting back involved in the group/ fellowship.

There’s a lot of shattered souls out there that really need help. Maybe walking someone new through the steps could help you find that peace you’re seeking..

Wishing you the best, thanks for sharing!

Gal220

I'm not opposed to working with a newcomer. The opportunity just hasn't presented itself yet; maybe because I'm kind of screwed up at the moment. I've been hitting at least one meeting a day and trying to be sociable and talk to people after.

There have actually been very few people at the meetings I'm attending lately; not sure why. A couple of days ago, I waited almost half an hour before a few people showed, and they really just wanted their papers signed. I did the meeting anyway; it lasted like eight minutes, lol!

I've got 12 years, just stopped going to meetings for about 6 of those because I had difficulty even leaving my house. After my 2nd was born, I had really bad post-partum depression, then was just starting to recover and had started working again when we had another baby. So I'm working through a second bout of depression and trying to rebuild a bit.

And you're right, there's nothing like working with a newcomer to remind me of why I want to stay sober!

sugarbear1

If it's on my mind today, I re-visit it.

Tommyh

I have did several kinds of 4th steps
last one was around 2011
in depth and took a lot of time
it was a different way than I had did before.It was worth it.I listed whatever God put on my mind

Ken33xx

I've not done a 4th step twice but it's not uncommon to hear members with sober time who have.

Do you simply start over or just add what you forget or neglected?

I guess that would be up to you.

You mentioned you're a mess at the moment. I think it's important to not mask what is going on. When I feel down, depressed or worried I can usually pinpoint the reason.

If possible perhaps consider a visit to a therapist in addition to reworking a step 4.

Best of luck.

Gal220

Yeah, I've definitely got too much crazy, so I am in therapy. I was suicidal and self-injuring, so I was put on medical leave and have been doing an outpatient program. My regular therapist is also a member of AA, so he knows the program.

So anyway, sober but crazy, desperate, and willing to do anything to stay alive for my family.

Tommyh

I figured I had nothing to lose but a lot to gain when I went back and did mine

uncle holmes

You never can go wrong by doing another 4th step again! It will help you grow. I know some people who do a thorough 4th step once a year. As far as where you start off, I think it depends if you're over those defects even though you've already discussed them before. If you're not, then go ahead and put it on your 4th step again. Plus there's always new ones that come up.

DayTrader

While my brain "knows" and understands all that things that are recommended in steps 10 and 11, my reality has been that I don't practice them perfectly. In fact, I don't even practice them in all my affairs to the point where I've not benefited from re-working all 12 of the steps on a somewhat regular basis.

One thing's for SURE.... I've never done a new / current inventory, 5th stepped it, proceeded through the rest of the steps and then thought to myself, "ya know, I wish I hadn't done that." Another thing I've known most of my life to be true and then found was also true with the 4th step - one gets better at doing something with practice. The first maaaaaaaaaany times I played golf I was pretty bad at it. Via some God-given talent and a lot of practice...... lot's of practice...... I got pretty darn good at it. Now I had that talent on day 1......but I was lacking the practice. Talent alone is insufficient. The repeated practice developed and honed the talent.

Same thing with the 4th step for me. I had the ability to write a wonderful 1st 4th step, but I didn't really know what I was doing, and didn't have any previous experience doing it. Since then, I've probably done..... and I'm kinda guessing here because I stopped counting a long time ago..... around 10 "formal" forth step inventories where I did all the columns, the fear inventory and the sex ideal, 5th stepped it and so on. In addition, I've done a LOT of partial inventories. Inventories where I just dealt with 1 or a couple resentments, did the columns, 5th stepped, and moved on through the rest of the steps with them.

In the first inventory I was challenged to go back through my life and list them all. Honestly, I didn't come anywhere close to listing them all. lol. On the follow-up inventories, I've been more honest. I pray now for the willingness to write the things God wants me to write. I pray for the humility to list the things God wants me to take a look at. I pray for the willingness to trust that while I often don't think there's much to look at, that God will may have been what put me in the position where I'm being asked/challenged to write another inventory and even though I don't "feel like" writing it - I would like the willingness to write it anyway.

I'd say I'm working on another 4th step currently but that would only be a half-truth. What I'm doing is resting on the laurels of having written about 1/3 of an inventory and constantly looking for excuses to not continue with it / rationalizing not finishing it. lol - ugh!

As a general rule, I try to stay current with my inventories. If the things from previous inventories are not longer an issue at all..... i don't list them. The things that still bug me, I absolutely list them. And as I started with above, over the years and with a lot of practice, I've gotten pretty good at writing 4th step inventories (when I'm actually writing them, that is.......lolol). The columns are in my head and very obvious to me even before I start. On the other hand, when I actually engage in the process and have the pen in my hand.......and I've asked God to get me to put down on that paper the things He wants me to write......I alllllllllways end up writing more than a couple things that I didn't think about ahead of time, things I didn't even think I knew, and things that I had never thought of before being almost "guided" to write them down.

DayTrader

I had a couple "tragedies" that I was pretty sure were the cause of my undoing. Things that I was reasonably certain were the cause of my depression, anger, and general discontentment.

Though those "big" things were big...... and actually were more damaging that I had recognized, for me the BIGGEST issues are the small ones. The things that seem so silly or stupid that they don't seem to warrant even being written down. My reality has been that there isn't 1 or 2 of those things...... there are dozens.....hundreds. Taken on their own, they aren't really all that big of a deal. But when there are tons of them....... I've found the effect has been worse than the 1 or 2 "big" bad things I thought were the real issues in my life.

There have been a whole bunch of what I thought were small insignificant things that didn't make my first couple inventories. Things that I eventually got the willingness to take an honest look at on inventory #4.....or 14.......or 20. The discoveries I made were, and I'm not grandstanding here, life changing. Had I not done that 4th inventory, or that 14th inventory or inventory # whatever, I would have totally missed out on the revelations and the changes that came from them.

One of the things I try to remember is that me dealing with life as I thought I should, me handling my affairs to the best of my ability, me using every tool I knew to use........... culminated in more than a couple years were I'd say this half-hearted prayer that I'd get killed in a car accident on my way to work.......or home from work. That's the grand prize I was able to manufacture for myself doing the best I could do. So now, when I write inventory (or even just progress through a typical day, for that matter), I try to remember to ask God to make it clear to me what God wants me to write (or see, or do, etc) and to remove from me whatever desires I may have (no matter how attached to them I am and no matter how right I think they are) to ignore His wishes for me and to remove from me anything I'm thinking or doing that isn't in line with His will for me. I've gone through a lot of post-it notes with reminders for me to ask God again today. LOL, turns out one of the exact natures of a whole lot of my defects of character is that my false pride and false ego would rather I be miserable than ask for help - even from a God I was encouraged to create precisely to my own specific liking. Anyway, I've found through lots of experimentation that if I ask God to help/get/make me do what He wants me to do.....especially when I don't want to do it..... I end up with really darn good results. When I just trust my gut and don't do any sort of consultation..... the results have been really mixed. So........ I'd strongly recommend spending more time asking God what God would have you do.

Gottalife

In folks that have a good bit of time up when that sense of dis-ease crops up, in my experience there are two possible causes.

The first might be that something was held back in step five, some secret kept which is working against us in the back ground. Only you would know if this was the case, and if it is, then reworking both four and five may bring benefits.

There is a pretty profound series of promises after step five including that we may begin to have a spiritual experience. It was powerful for me. Sometimes the mistake is made in thinking this is "THE" spiritual experience, and we stop work thinking we have arrived at the destination. The experience that comes with a thorough step four and five IME is not repeatable.

So the second possibility then is that while step four and five were done thoroughly, we never completed the work. Especially, step in remains incomplete or unattempted. Dr Bob was the first to prove the folly of this approach. The solution in this case is to complete the work, not go back.

I guess a few years in the wilderness not living the 24 hour plan in steps 10,11 and 12, could mean some junk has accumulated, so a special effort might be required to clean it up.

However, my experience shows that repeated working of the steps on my self just for the sake of it, under the direction of a sponsor, has virtually no spiritual value, except maybe to the sponsor. Independent research has also shown that having a sponsor has no bearing on long term outcomes, but being a sponsor improves long term prospects exponentially.

So what Dave 42001 said about working with others gets my vote, and it comes straight from the book. When I take a newcomer through the steps, that is the time I re do them myself. I learn far more from the new guy and often pick up on things I need to do for my own recovery. There is no better way of learning something than trying to teach it to someone else, and nothing more spiritually rewarding.

Tommyh

I had a friend who wanted me to go back thru the steps with her
I knew she had been thru the steps well the first time but had just got slack

so we did a step 10 and 11 for a while.I Had her put it in writing and we met weekly for several months and went over her work.
one purpose of the writing was to make sure she did it
the object was to help her get back on the AA beam

It worked good in her case and saved a lot of effort and time for both of us

you may want to give that a try

August252015

I LOVE this thread - thanks Gal.

And in coming up on 4 yrs on 2/21/20, my experience has followed similar lines as eloquent folks above like my pal DT who often hits home w me on shares.

To add a shorter $0.02 since the gist of what I read already is that doing steps again can indeed be beneficial, is to say that I took a full yr to literally do the steps. however, my first sponsor and I did 1-3 in just a couple wks and she was very strict, laying my strong book based foundation.

I didn't trust her to do step 4. I got my next sponsor with whom I worked for the next 2 yrs. I used worksheets for 4 and 5 as those have always been a good tool for me. I did it to the best of my ability and was told that 1 an emotional "crash" after 4/5 was likely, and it was and 2 I couldn't likely "get it all out" the first time. I believe my sponsor mentioned then that many do another full step process, or 4/5 in each early year...or as it turned out I did, at a point I felt strongly and spiritually guided that I needed another go. I think that was at close to 3 yrs.

All this has confirmed for me that I really have to get another official sponsor. It's been up and down in that area since last summer, sparing y'all details, and like folks always say....I am pretty sure I'm making it harder on myself by NOT having one.

For the first 3 yrs I literally did the same routine every day- including 10/11. It's prob one of my fave (top 3) parts of the program to put in practice and one of the best keep me in check things. St Francis prayer along with it, and this perhaps odd habit of picking one of the things (ie seek to understand not be understood) that strikes me that day.

So that actually might have been $0.04 - clearly this all hit home w me today!

Do let us know what you work on Gal - I think you're awesome and strong for acknowledging where you are.

Jaxis

Actually it's common in my area to rework the steps. I know I did and I could see where I grew up a lot.

August252015

Popped in here again. One thing that just occurred to me is the clear 4/5 and 8/9 connection. I was "ready" to start amends pretty early, and thought I was prepared to do all that I needed - save 2- before step 9. I actually found that those specific 2 took me about 3 years to actually execute. Living amends has been much more significant to me - I hurt more people by more stuff than I could possibly apologize for, especially my closest fam. So specific stuff that I listed on 4 and disclosed on 5 absolutely needs amends *assuming it won't hurt them or others, as the BB says* but living in the better I have learned is more important. Doing 5 again likely spurred me to do those last 2 amends pretty soon after.

How's it going Gal?

Gottalife

I liked that approach Tommy. When the wreckage of the past is more or less dealt with, it seems to me it would be very helpful to guide your friend back into the 24 hour plan in steps 10 and 11, especially cleaning up any new mistakes as we go along.

My practice of step 10 is an "as you go through the day" thing, When a situation arises, I follow the step either at once or within an hour or two of the event that needs t be fixed.

I think the waters got muddied around this in the 12 and 12 where Bill's approach talks about a daily step ten, which does not make a lot of sense really, when it seems to double up on the contemplative aspects of step eleven.

My experience is the least painful way to deal a mistake is immediately as suggested in the book. If I leave it, it festers and grows and becomes harder to deal with. I have found I generally cannot leave this for more than an hour or two before I have to try too put them right. I cannot comprehend how I would be able to sit on something for days, months or a year, before a periodic house cleaning. Just too risky for this alcoholic.

August, your comment on adverse reactions to step five, something I have heard about but only seen once at that was due to very poor sponsorship. Most everyone I work with, whether I hear their step five ( we do four together so nothing new there) or they go to a minister of religion, have a pretty uniform reaction. They say their step four was about what they expected, and there is nothing better than the step five promises in the big book to describe how it feels.

"We pocket our pride and go to it, illuminating every twist of character, every dark cranny of the past. Once we have taken this step, withholding nothing, we are delighted. We can look the world in the eye. We can be alone at perfect peace and ease. Our fears fall from us. We begin to feel the nearness of our Creator. We may have had certain spiritual beliefs, but now we begin to have a spiritual experience. The feeling that the drink problem has disappeared will often come strongly. We feel we are on the Broad Highway, walking hand in hand with the Spirit of the Universe." Just about blew my socks off when I read that after my step five. It describes exactly how I felt.

The stuff I got out was along the lines " Coming to his senses, he is revolted at certain episodes he vaguely remembers. These memories are a nightmare. He trembles to think someone might have observed him. As fast as he can, he pushes these memories far inside himself. He hopes they will never see the light of day."

But the sheep and the goat, even the really good looking chickens, lost all their attraction when I got sober. Nightmare memories in that regard were now a thing of the past.