AAPJ

Hi folks. Looking for some advice here. You see this site is causing me some conflict. What I have learned here is that while a lot of folks including me have found AA to be helpful and a key part of my recovery there is another set of folks here who did not use AA as their primary program of recovery. And I don't think I can just brush off the non AA folks as "dry drunks". A lot of you have darn good programs for recovery. When I go to AA meetings these days of often hear a message especially from the most dedicated members that AA is the only way one can recover from an alcohol problem. So how do I share honestly? I think we lose a lot of people who come into the rooms, hear this is the only way to recover and leave the rooms. I think AA is an excellent way for many of us to recover but it's not the only way.

Thoughts?

August252015

So, here's my $0.02.

I'd keep sharing from the "I."As in, "I have found that..." and then whatever follows might be in the spirit of AA, but something I learned elsewhere. Does that make sense? For me, I learn stuff and want to keep being open to non-AA folks, still using the idea of connecting it to the steps.

Like you said - there are a lot of people working programs that aren't AA and they have the same things we all want - a way to live that brings them sobriety, joy, peace, purpose.

I recall one older lady in particular, whose AA program I admire, coming up to me after a mtg one day. She was concerned at hearing me describe the restaurant industry group I lead which is not aa/na. "Why wouldn't you make it an Aa group? That's the way." Well, for a lot of reasons it isn't the way for this effort! Starting with promotion not attraction, non-anonymity at the level of press, radio and film, and the movement to spread across the country to support industry people trying to live sober in a world full of alcohol, drugs and stress. Our meetings have an AA format in the sense they are topic based, group discussion. Those of us in AA/NA are many, but some aren't - which I find similar to here. Sidenote to this: all of us on the Board are AA people. Each of us touches base with our sponsors regarding the anonymity thing, especially when invited on podcasts and such. We need to stay spiritually fit because of our "dual" identities.

I hope that helps, friend.

Tetrax

I think a lot of people in AA genuinely want to reach out to the newcomer but seem to struggle to share without mentioning the Big Book (partly for group cohesion I guess), rather than utilising their own direct, subjective experiences of sobriety, which would be of massive help I think.

My conflict at six months is now going to AA at all, as a 'dry drunk' (though I've used meetings from the start). I feel welcome by the majority but feel uncomfortable at times.

wiscsober

Great reads...will be back with my op

August252015

I just want to pipe in here re "dry drunk." We discussed this at great length on another thread recently, and I am not trying to get into another, um, debate.

For me, anyone describing someone who "doesn't use AA" as a "Dry drunk" is inaccurate. There's no monopoly on the sober market, as even the BB says. We've found what works for US. And whether or not anyone uses the term at all is up to them, but to me, it is a great pejorative I rarely use. When I do, it's about someone close to me whom I see acting out the "restless, irritable, discontent" thing on a wide basis. Or, basically, it's the whole some people get sober but are still jerks. This is when the spiritual aspect may not be present, to me.

So I generally pay no attention to people who use it towards others. I don't know why they are using it and certainly, if they told me it was because someone wasn't following AA, I'd just go with that being their "version" of AA (whether to them it is indeed program based or not) and move along.

Grungehead

I've been in and out of AA (and sobriety) for nearly 30 years now...got sober for the first time and went to my first AA meeting in April of 1990. I've been a member here at SR since May of 2013 which was a few weeks after my current sober date of April 17, 2013. So my following opinion is based on the above accumulated experiences I have had with alcoholism.

First, I agree that "brushing off" non AA people who have found other avenues for sobriety/recovery is denying the reality that people are able to get and stay sober using a variety of methods. What I have found for me personally is that I reached the stage in my alcoholism that only an entire psychic change would be sufficient to recover, and I'm not sure if other recovery methods other than the 12 steps would have helped me achieve that psychic change.

I agree that SR has opened my eyes to the fact that AA is not the only way to achieve sobriety, yet the 12 step method has been the only way I have been able to achieve contented sobriety without the obsession eventually coming back to haunt me. When I got sober in 1990 and again in 1997 I went to a lot of meetings but never worked the steps. Both times I quit going to meetings after 2-3 years and managed to stay sober for 6-7 years, but eventually the obsession came back and I drank again.

When I got sober in April of 2013 I decided that I needed to actually try working the program...the 12 steps...because I was confident that this was going to be my last opportunity before alcohol killed me. The difference the steps and that psychic change have made has saved my life. In previous attempts it seemed that my sobriety was contingent on other aspects of my life going smoothly, which were often out of my control. Now my sobriety is contingent on staying in fit spiritual condition, which is completely within my control.

So I guess in conclusion I would say that for some, the 12 step program of AA is the only way they can recover from the alcohol problem. But I also believe that not everyone reaches the point that a psychic change is the only solution to their alcohol problem. And I'm even inclined to believe that some people may be able to find that psychic change through other avenues, although I believe those avenues are limited. I also believe that people are more aware of alcoholism today, get into recovery earlier and often don't reach that "hopeless" stage.

CRRHCC

In my opinion, AA has a lot of good values, especially community. The success rate of AA is less than 10%, but it works for millions. My greatest objection to AA is its dogmatic attitude that is the antithesis of science itself. The core of AA has not changed since 1935. By reinforcing the myth that addiction is uncontrollable and permanent, neuroscientific models make it harder to overcome the problem, just as the 12-step disease model has all along. Telling yourself that you are powerless over addiction is self-defeating; it limits your capacity to change and grow. Isn’t it better to start from the belief that you—or your spouse, or your child—can fully and finally break out of addictive habits by redirecting your life?

2 Corinthians 5: 17 if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new (Replaced).

Read "The Sober Truth," by Lance Dodes, MD.

fini

what message to carry at AA meetings?
"this message".
at an AA meeting, i share about what following "this simple program" means to me and how it was/is helpful and what difference it has made to how i am now compared to how i was then.
that is part of the program, and the purpose of the meeting.

i would never add to that that is the only way to recover, as it is just not so. people who say that are mistaken, and in the BB it is akcnowledged that 'we do not have a monopoly on recovery ' (i think that is the accurate quote, but not entirely sure).

if i were speaking with someone privately who was the way i was before i knew i needed to do the stepstuff, i would certainly point out the other options and encourage them to check them out, as they might well be right for them.

fini

just to add: the message i carry at an AA meeting is not proselytizing, nor do i exclude my own experience of getting to "the program" from a very different place and my journey which started with secular recovery peer support and action.

August252015

^^^I mention SR in meetings sometimes, as I do my therapist or psych or the readings of Friar Richard Rohr I study....when it connects to figuring out how to apply the program to my life.

sugarbear1

even the big book mentions that AA does not have a monopoly on recovery.

sobriety is the goal.

Tommyh

I carry and try to live the message of AA
there are many ways to get sober but it is and was AA for me
if someone wants it,fine
if they don`t fine

Ken33xx

My thoughts: It's an AA meeting. If one is using another program or method as their primary source of recovery that's fine.

But generally I don't consider it is appropriate to discuss such a program/method during a meeting.

Save it for after the meeting.

Ken33xx

My mistake. I misread what the OP wrote. I thought they were referring to AA meetings and not this website.

If you're new in AA you can ask questions here which you might not feel comfortable asking in a meeting.

And that's a good thing.

Ken33xx

I think it's important to respect the views of others in AA and not deliberately attempt to offend.

However, I don't think it's helpful to you or anyone in the room not to share honestly.

If you feel you can't do this without some of the heavy hitters getting upset I'd look for another meeting.

AAPJ

Great thoughts. frankly I do not care if I upset a "heavy hitter" because what I say won't change their views. Also if all I am doing is sharing I can certainly share in a way that keeps things inside the lines so to speak.

What I find more difficult is the idea of leading a meeting and not letting folks know what I really think. I like AA but I am not an AA "cheerleader". To me it really is a program of attraction.

I think the newcomer has a right to understand that if AA is not appealing to them there are other recovery paths that can work. The fact that there are other paths to recovery is something that I learned here on the SR forum.

I guess that I am advocate of sobriety first and AA second.

Ken33xx

Fair enough but I would recommend doing so after the meeting.

I don't feel it is appropriate to discuss other methods of recovery during an AA meeting.

snitch

I can only share my own experience, strength and hope and my experience is that I got sober with AA and I am learning to live sober with AA. I personally do not believe AA is the only way. There are plenty folks here who prove that theory incorrect. I would also never bash someone elses programme. Whatever gets a person sober and out of the hell hole of active alcoholism is fine by me!! I am also not responsible for what other AA members say in meetings and I cannot save the world!!. I think it is really admirable that you are thinking of your fellow alcoholics in this way but they have found their way to an AA meeting and I am there to carry the AA message. Even if only one newcomer feels hope and comes back after something I have shared then I am happy with that.

🙏❤🙏❤

DriGuy

^^^Yes. "Sobriety first" should be the message. You might not mention AA at all in that message, or at least not in a way that puts it second to anything, including sobriety itself. I fully understand what you mean, and totally agree, but in my group that would have offended some members, probably not a majority, but a large minority to some degree at least.

If you are chairing a meeting, it's probably best to avoid things which can be misconstrued as challenge or controversy. I'd try to stay within the philosophy and methodology, and let others decide for themselves which parts they can believe or accept. Mentioning that there are alternatives might be OK, because the AA program itself does not deny other alternatives, although it does ignore them. But that might be a dicey area.

Being politically safe, also depends on the AA group. Some are more flexible in their thinking than others. My group was very rigid, and I bumped heads with my group a few times, but never when I was chairing a meeting. I think the chairman's function should probably be different from your individual concerns.

August252015

^^^Agree completely.

And, AAPJ - that word "cheerleader"....well, I was captain of the cheerleaders in high school and certainly have the genetic propensity for such. I think diff people find diff people pushy/overbearing/cheerleadery (which to me would mean I'm excited to be part of x or y and share the message)...like on here, in AA or at work or anywhere, we find people with different vibes, styles of speaking and so on.

One thing AA talks about is the difference between principles and personality. Basically, circle back to the program, not any one person who's being a heavy hitter/bulldog/whatever term for a kind of my way or the highway kinda thing.

Remembering that like any church or religion, AA is made up of people and people are fallable and sometimes unlikable, carrying the WRONG message and so on - yet we need people to keep these great things going - helps me.

At the end of the day there is ONE thing you need to go to an AA meeting: a desire to quit drinking. And in a way, people who come in later already have a leg up in the sense you've already been sober and want to add or learn more to your life in recovery. That's a courageous, cool and open-minded thing to do.