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The first 100

Old 05-27-2009, 07:29 PM
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The first 100

I hear reference to the first 100 all the time as proof positive of the program.

Page xiii –- Foreword to the First Edition

"We, of Alcoholics Anonymous, are more than one hundred men and women who have recovered from a seemingly hopeless state of mind and body."

AA membership was 74 members from 1935 through 1938 as the original manuscript went to press, 41 known to have achieved permanent sobriety, so is there a slight exaggeration ?

There was a woman who got sober with the first AA's then went back to the bottle in 1939 and died some time after.

I also did some reading in Alcoholics Comes of Age and on page 74 it talks about alcoholics not wanting to get too well too soon. How they clung onto their defects until they were ready to let go of them.

"Drinkers could not take pressure in any form" (direct quote)

I don't post this to question the validity of the AA program, any of us who have recovered can look in the mirror and see how it works. But I think it is important to know where we come from and how it really was in the beginning. We have romanticized the good ole days and use it as a means to separate certain AA's from others.

Our fellowship has had problems from the get go, the miracle of God is that it works at all.
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Old 05-27-2009, 09:03 PM
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"AA membership was 74 members from 1935 through 1938 as the original manuscript went to press, 41 known to have achieved permanent sobriety, so is there a slight exaggeration ?"

You are correct. Just a slight exaggeration. One of the character defects that Bill Wilson clung to was embellishing the truth. I don't hold that against him too much. If it were not for him being an ego-driven promoter, we probably wouldn't be here to talk about it.

As for separating certain AA's from others, let me just say I only know two kinds of AA's-ones that are recovered and ones that are not. The only time I hang with the unrecovered ones is when I'm taking them through the steps or working with them at the jitter joint. If certain AA's choose to stay sick, that's fine, I just don't hang with them. I've been called an elitist, and at times that has been more than likely true, but the truth of the matter is that I don't care how spiritually fit a person is, hanging out with people that exude sick, toxic energy will eventually drag a person down.

You can stay sick in AA and have plenty of company or you can get well in AA and not have as much company but it'll be better company.
Jim
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Old 05-27-2009, 09:43 PM
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i wonder what they would make of AA in some towns here in the UK?
i guess its the same over the pond..

the program and the meetings become ever more seperated....... read from the book in the beginning and then most spiral down wards to a group therapy session.

lately Ive have visited a few old haunts......only to find I'm the only alcoholic in the room of 40 or more.

Ive seen newcomers come into the room....and the message they take home with them....."do ninety in ninety and your whole world is gonna just light up"!!!

sorry i dont mean to take this thread on a slide........i just feel disillusioned with it all at the moment.

And yes its a fair argument to say "what is shaun doing about it" apart from moaning.

Well i try to grab that newcomer and ive got a couple of meetings off the ground.........but sometimes i feel like im p...sing in the wind.

thank the lord those 100 had the foresight to get it all in book.

So ive got a manual.....to live to the best of my ability with gods direction.

those first hundred gave me a solution to my dilema.......and the cost?

to give it away.
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Old 05-27-2009, 11:11 PM
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Wink

"...'We, of Alcoholics Anonymous, are more than one hundred men and women who have recovered from a seemingly hopeless state of mind and body.'
"AA membership was 74 members from 1935 through 1938 as the original manuscript went to press, 41 known to have achieved permanent sobriety, so is there a slight exaggeration?...?

I always took that line that Bill wrote as a form of hyperbole...... (o: Whether there were 100, or 74, or 41, it was really just one man, Bill W, who was doing most of the writing for the book, and who'd want to read a book on how one man was able to get sober and stay sober.....certainly not me. "100" just sounds so much better.....and more salable too.....hehehe


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Old 05-28-2009, 02:48 AM
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8 men sober 6 months or more when the nook was published was what a speaker said once who was sponsored by Dr Bob
anyway
I know a man today who met a lot of the "first 100" as he calls them
they was a disorganized bunch,and how this thing grew is a miracle... he says
they was just stumbling along as best they could
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Old 05-28-2009, 05:17 AM
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Like Jim I don't fault Bill for his "fuzzy" math and I do not doubt the results one can get from following the program as it is outlined in the book. But I refuse to look at the past with rose colored glasses and paint a picture of what AA was compared to what it is. AA has been full of spiritually sick people from day one. Most of the arguments we have today about AA have been going on since day one. Here is a classic example; women have separate meetings (Women's meetings) because of the stereotypes they faced early on. They were believed to have special problems. It was written about in the Grapevine in 1945 I believe (One of the reasons I like the Grapevine is because it gives a closer picture of the history of AA but it too is not infallible). They noted the isolation of women because they were likely to be involved with pills as well as booze. A Grapevine article was filled with the kinds of stereotyping that women were likely to encounter in the A.A. of this period, I believe I came across it on silkworth.net but can't remember. The article made some crazy points like The percentage of women who stay in A.A. is low. Many women form attachments too intense--bordering on the emotional. So many women were too controlling. Too many women don't like women ( we still hear this one today). Women talk too much.
Women can't do 12 step work with men and vice versa. A loose woman may show up at a group, on the prowl for phone numbers and dates. Few women can think in the abstract. Women's feelings get hurt too often. AA women cannot get along with the non-alcoholic wives of A.A. members. Women were often refused sponsorship by the male members and were viewed as suspect due to their frequent concurrent addiction to pills, not to mention all the other social stigmas that women alcoholics faced which were slightly different than male alkies. But the problem straightened itself out, with the exception of a few guys whining about women's meetings, it is not an issue in AA. But that isn't the history of AA we tell. We talk about this great gift the first 100 had which we are squandering away and that the rehab industry is trying to water down. I hope the following doesn't offend anyone:

This is what people like Hitler did. They take an internal problem and create an enemy. We have been tainted from day one in this fellowship, we have not been attacked by NA and the rehab industry. We created NA. Our fellowship can survive any problem, I am certain of that. But I think it is important to recognize that we are not saints and have always been quite far from that.
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Old 05-28-2009, 06:09 AM
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Hi Steve,

I don't believe that the first hundred (or first 74) had anything better than what we have.

What I do believe that as a whole, the fellowship has failed to do much with that gift you speak of. We have squandered away the gift we've given. You're right about NA and the treatment centers. They're not doing anything to us, we're doing it to ourselves. One of the big reasons I talk of leaving.

As for the fellowship surviving the problem, I don't think so. AA has been flatlining for years, actually it is in decline. We have more people coming through, more meetings popping up, yet fewer members. It is a dying thing. Maybe it should die.
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Old 05-28-2009, 06:23 AM
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There is a guy around here who has been sober for like 800 years. He's Mr. A.A. He sponsors guys, leads meetings, cleans up after the meeting, puts his hand out for newcomers, takes meetings into halfway houses and detoxes, volunteers for the district, drives people to meetings, the whole nine.

He is the kind of guy who will say to someone who already has a chair in their hand and who is about to put it away, "C'mon Mike, why don't you pitch in and help put away some of these chairs; that's what we do here in A.A." ANd then he does a little pantomine that says, "look, I'm helping put away the chairs."

He also shares at almost every meeting about how it USED to be. (Although he is only actually sober about 23 years, he talks like he knows how it was in 1937.) He double-dips his shares (I guess he can because he "knows so much"), usually closing the meeting with comments that "correct" whatever has already been said in the meeting that he finds objectionable.

To be fair, I think most of what he does is in the spirit of the best that is A.A., as far as I can tell what that is. But his manner of carrying the message and inspiring others really puts a lot of people off. I know someone here is going to talk about "our little alcoholic feelings", and that's fine. That is your way of doing things.

I just know that for me, and for a lot of people I talk to who are super-involved in A.A., his message gets super lost because people start tuning him out.
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Old 05-28-2009, 07:05 AM
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I sometimes go through periods of frustration with the current state of AA in my local community. And I'm guilty of romanticizing the 'take it or leave it" program that I envision of early AA. My nostalgic vision or future hope has little relevance in what I, a recovered alcoholic, needs to do. AA today is exactly what it is.

I find that reading the BB carefully and following the directions contained within gives me all the guidance I need in carrying the message that can help someone recover from a seemingly hopeless state of mind and body. It's all in there. I read the account of Bill and Bob's first meeting with Bill D., and I know what to do.

If I'm moaning about how AA was or how it should be, I have to look at myself. I'm really the problem. I look to the book and the experience of those first 100 (74).

AA at least from where I sit, does a poor job of reaching out to the newcomer. There seems to be this attitude that a new guy needs to go up to an oldtimer, prostrate themselves, and ask for help. Is that what those first members did? That's where I get my direction. No, they knew that they themselves needed to work with other alcoholics. So they sought them out where they were. They met them in hospitals, in jails, and on the streets. They took action to carry the message.

Am I going to pass along a phone list and say call me if you feel like drinking or am I going to seek out that rare new person who is desperate and start working with him right then and there?

Sorry for the off-topic rambling. It's what's on my mind this morning. There is no need to either romanticize or change the program. The actions required are clearly laid out for me.
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Old 05-28-2009, 07:30 AM
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"AA at least from where I sit, does a poor job of reaching out to the newcomer. There seems to be this attitude that a new guy needs to go up to an oldtimer, prostrate themselves, and ask for help. Is that what those first members did? That's where I get my direction. No, they knew that they themselves needed to work with other alcoholics. So they sought them out where they were. They met them in hospitals, in jails, and on the streets. They took action to carry the message.

Am I going to pass along a phone list and say call me if you feel like drinking or am I going to seek out that rare new person who is desperate and start working with him right then and there?"

Sorry for the off-topic rambling. It's what's on my mind this morning. There is no need to either romanticize or change the program. The actions required are clearly laid out for me."

Hi Keith,
You know when we do comment on the current state of the fellowship, we are opening ourselves up to being accused of being bitter, cynical, a bleeding deacon, or the like.

It is my belief that here in my community, we have too many meetings. We sit in those meetings and wait for them to come to us. Like you said, most people's idea of Twelfth-Step work is handing someone a meeting schedule with a list of phone numbers on the back. Very few groups take their message into institutions, although there is a handful of dedicated individuals who are doing great work in the jail. My group takes a meeting into one of the de toxes twice a month. But on the whole, meetings around here are social hour where we can go and see our friends and then go our separate ways until the next meeting. There is very little sense of community in the AA in this town. I guess if I am guilty of romanticizing anything it would be that. I get that from reading Dr. Bob And The Good Old-timers. We've lost that, at least in this town.
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Old 05-28-2009, 08:47 AM
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Sorry for the off-topic rambling. It's what's on my mind this morning. There is no need to either romanticize or change the program. The actions required are clearly laid out for me."
Keith and Jim,
I think this is right on topic. I remember recently when asking a newcomer for his number another member walked by and mumbled "attraction not promotion Steve". I don't think challenging what AA is currently doing is in any way counter productive, but sitting there talking about what it was gets us nowhere. I hope AA doesn't die Jim and I don't believe it will. But I think if folks like you and I (and as you have pointed out to me, we are more alike than we may believe) stop going, it is sure to die or finish transforming into something altogether.

But I do sometimes get the feeling that I am on a sinking ship, but when I pray and meditate on it the message I get is "go to a meeting and be of service"
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Old 05-28-2009, 01:19 PM
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I think I'll coin a new phrase...

"Dogma kills, spirituality fills"...

I am corny, yes! But...

"I hear reference to the first 100 all the time as proof positive of the program."

Sorry..

I've never heard that. Proof positive..for me, is to look in the mirror today.

And to know that AA has exploded from 2 drunks meeting one another, a miracle

happening between them, and millions recovered and recovering today because

of that one meeting between two individuals at that given moment in time.
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Old 05-28-2009, 03:55 PM
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please someone correct me if i am wrong (im sure you will!) but it was a little more than bill and bob meeting,,wasnt it ebby.t. that met the phsycologist carl jung and got the idea for a spiritual solution and then passed this on to bill? this could seem like a divine intervention as ebby.t. was supposed to be meeting with sigmund freud,,if this had been the case then AA probably would not have exsisted or we would all be a bunch of alkis blaming our alcoholism on our parents! so,,it was culmination of things,inc the oxford group that was the begining of AA.and only one man had all the elements in his possesion.bill.w. remember mr recovered alcoholics that i am not long on the programme and therefore still learning (as i always will be) but i dont believe in coincidences after hearing this story! its a great story! im off topic now anyway,,the meetings i go to in the north of scotland have been great for me from the begining,however as i move along in the programme and im getting a better awareness i find a lot of them lacking,,but that is my problem i believe.so what i do is travel alot instead.we went on a 90 mile round trip the other night and collected someone else along the way,it was a great meeting,back to basics and it was all about step 1.i have started picking and choosing meetings now,but saying that there is some good sobriety around and even if it is just one person at that meeting then i find it worthwile.please dont say things like AA dying! ruh roh,,,i wasnt going to go back to a regular lunchtime meeting i have attended since going to AA because of a couple shares last week.but i did and lo and behold a newcomer came today.i gave her my number and she rang me today,so we will see what happens there.anyway im coming to the states for a month on the 20th of june and im looking forward to attending many meetings there! i have asked about a little and hopefully will be recommended some good meetings,and any suggestions from you guys would be great.good thread by the way.thanks.i apoligise for going sooooo off topic! wasnt bill.w. a real womaniser too? lol
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Old 05-28-2009, 05:41 PM
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It was Rowland Hazard who met Carl Jung. But Rowland helped Ebby get sober who carried the message to Bill, but they were the Oxford Group. You weren't off topic at all
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Old 05-28-2009, 05:41 PM
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Roland Hazard met with Dr Carl Jung
Roland later got drunk,then got sober in the Oxford Groups
The Oxford group sobered up Ebby T who made a call on Bill W
Bill W later got sober and some months later made a call on Dr Bob
Dr Bob later got drunk and then Bill helped sober him up and Dr Bob
and Bill then stayed sober the rest of their lives.
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Old 05-28-2009, 10:27 PM
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"...please dont say things like AA dying!"

Why not? Is it an unpleasant reality? Fact of the matter is all that's missing is the tag on the toe. Fact of the matter is that it may have to die so that it can live. It is also a fact that the farther a movement gets from its founding the farther it gets away from its original primary aim and the more watered down it becomes until it only resembles what it was intended to be. It is a natural progression. Why get in the way of that? Let it die.

And this isn't about romanticizing the past, this is about the present reality. When I say AA is dying, I mean that AA as it is perceived by most is what is dying and probably needs to die. As long as there are people who are doing the deal, really doing the work, the true spirit of AA will never die.

"But I think if folks like you and I (and as you have pointed out to me, we are more alike than we may believe) stop going, it is sure to die or finish transforming into something altogether."

Steve, I think you & I are more alike than most would believe. But what I also believe is that it is really too late. It has already transformed into something else all together. In most places, it's not really AA, but it's not really NA either. Not sure what you'd call it, maybe BB, I don't know. When a movement loses it's single & primary purpose, it loses it's unity, and when that happens there can be no informed group conscience. And when there is no informed conscience, it ceases to be AA. It might continue to meet and might vaguely resemble AA, but as a group it has effectively died. When a movement fails to heed the voices of it's elders and fails to pay attention to past experience it is on its way out.

A lot of old-timers have left. Some have gone "underground," others find other avenues to be useful. Some just quietly wither away. Some, because they feel that have become useless, become bitter and cynical and blow their heads off. That's what people do when they feel they've lost their purpose in life. More than one old-timer has told me that they have no reason to go to places where they aren't wanted and the new guard isn't interested in hearing what they have to say. They get tired of being called everything from bleeding deacons to Big Book Nazis. The AA message has become passe' in many circles in AA.
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Old 05-28-2009, 11:53 PM
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Jim,
That's why I realized lately - the AA fellowship can die tomorrow and as long as I have a Big Book and a detox center, I have all I need to stay sober and grow with God.
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Old 05-29-2009, 02:15 AM
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the AA fellowship can die tomorrow and as long as I have a Big Book and a detox center, I have all I need to stay sober and grow with God.
That is why it won't die. The current face may change ( and I hope it does!) but it won't die. Was at a meeting last night and a drunk woman showed up. The topic was??? Can't remember...

Not alcohol


4 of us took her outside.

She refused help.

4 of us had a great meeting outside!
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Old 05-29-2009, 02:22 AM
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im not great at articulating myself...certainly not as good as some of you.

but this is how i feel...when i first met my sponsor or rather when he introduced himself i was surprised by his intense desire to show me and discuss the big book of alcoholics anonymous.

i had already started to pick up the usual rubbish and was slowly convincing myself...that the more meeting i did the longer i would stay sober..

My sponsor started to convince me that i wouldnt find a solution in meetings...he told me about a solution set out in that book and that that was what AA was all about....its all AA Is he would say.

That guy saved my life.....he passed on the solution to me and told me what AA Isnt.
and guess what......the desire to drink started to fade..and a new way of thinking started..
i made lots of mistakes.......only to be pulled by my sponsor and brought back to the program every time.

My sponsor once called a meeting a "tea party" and i now know what he meant.

The space between aa the fellowship and aa the program of recovery is widening.....thats how it feels to me.
I dont hear about the solution in AA meetings here.
i hear alot of "stuff" but rarely a solution.
sure the big book gets read out...........only to be forgotten as a sideline.

The solution seems to have become a after thought to alot of meetings here
mention god in some of these meetings and i feel the uncomfortable shuffling of some members.

i keep saying to myself.......god or booze....otherwise shut your mouth...thats what i believe anyhow.

It may be different in the usa but here id rather stay at home and study or meet up with like minded pals....or if i can grab a newcomer.

i dont wanna hear about drugs in a AA Meeting.......because its an AA Meeting......i dont wanna hear what your consellor say.....i dont wanna hear all thoses silly catch phrases that convince the newcomer to sit tight and its all gonna be ok.

i wanna hear how you stay sober ......using that book....remember the one read out in the beginning.
i want to hear your solution........i dont want all the extra s...t tacked on.
im bored with it.

i hope that makes sense......it does to me...im not slating aa......Because what ive talked about aint aa.
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Old 05-29-2009, 03:41 AM
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Sounds like a lot of self-pity and grandiosity to me. (These people you refer to...)

Some just quietly wither away. Some, because they feel that have become useless, become bitter and cynical and blow their heads off. That's what people do when they feel they've lost their purpose in life. More than one old-timer has told me that they have no reason to go to places where they aren't wanted and the new guard isn't interested in hearing what they have to say. They get tired of being called everything from bleeding deacons to Big Book Nazis. The AA message has become passe' in many circles in AA.
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