Apologize for sexual harrasment when drunk
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Join Date: Jun 2016
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Apologize for sexual harrasment when drunk
Is it acceptable to apologize for this? Would they even accept it, i don't know them anymore.
I need help with this one. It could land me in serious trouble but I don't know what to do. It's the one thing that puts me off doing the whole 12 step thing.
I need help with this one. It could land me in serious trouble but I don't know what to do. It's the one thing that puts me off doing the whole 12 step thing.
slangking,
this is the kind of thing you will get a clearer idea on after going through the steps that get you
to amends. by the time i got to that step, i was ready to take it, though could have not ever imagined that i would be ready and eager to do this.
doing the previous steps was invaluable, and i am absolutely certain any "apology" i would have made to some folks without having gone through the previous process and work...well, it would have been a mess, regardless of my heartfelt best intentions.
it also really helped to prepare me for whatever the other person's reaction might be. and to be okay regardless.
this is the kind of thing you will get a clearer idea on after going through the steps that get you
to amends. by the time i got to that step, i was ready to take it, though could have not ever imagined that i would be ready and eager to do this.
doing the previous steps was invaluable, and i am absolutely certain any "apology" i would have made to some folks without having gone through the previous process and work...well, it would have been a mess, regardless of my heartfelt best intentions.
it also really helped to prepare me for whatever the other person's reaction might be. and to be okay regardless.
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Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 1,137
I agree with fini on working your were there and not rushing anything.
Speaking from the side of someone who has been sexually harassed, I would appreciate an apology from that person if it is respectful, sincere and if it feels like he realised what incredible harm he has done. Something that I would find unacceptable in the apology would be if it seems like he's just pitying me or feeling sorry for himself, or just wants to know that he's forgiven.
The apology shouldn't primarily be about you lightening your bad conscience but you wanting to help the other person.
However, that's my opinion.
Speaking from the side of someone who has been sexually harassed, I would appreciate an apology from that person if it is respectful, sincere and if it feels like he realised what incredible harm he has done. Something that I would find unacceptable in the apology would be if it seems like he's just pitying me or feeling sorry for himself, or just wants to know that he's forgiven.
The apology shouldn't primarily be about you lightening your bad conscience but you wanting to help the other person.
However, that's my opinion.
Amends come much later in the process, so that should not even really be a concern at this point. You will be much better equipped to make a decision about what to do regarding this particular issue if you work the other steps first.
Sexual harassment is a very serious transgression no question. Your drinking is obviously intertwined. You cannot undo what you have done, but you can change what you do today. Any apologies you make would likely be far more genuine if you can prove that you've taken action to solve your drinking problem. AKA - actions speak far louder than words. You also have to accept the possibility that your apology may not be accepted for this, or any other, transgression.
Sexual harassment is a very serious transgression no question. Your drinking is obviously intertwined. You cannot undo what you have done, but you can change what you do today. Any apologies you make would likely be far more genuine if you can prove that you've taken action to solve your drinking problem. AKA - actions speak far louder than words. You also have to accept the possibility that your apology may not be accepted for this, or any other, transgression.
None of my business the full nature of your post but it reminded me of something that happened a few years ago.
Man convicted after apology leaves jail - US news - Crime & courts | NBC News
Man convicted after apology leaves jail - US news - Crime & courts | NBC News
But at the same time you really don't have to do much anymore in this environment and still be accused of sexual harassment when there really was no wrong doing.
The 9th step says, "Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others."
"Others" can also mean you. If there's a chance you can be in serious trouble I wouldn't make amends for this. At least not now. Right now I would put this amend in your Higher Power's hands and ask for forgiveness.
if you ate intetested in doing the step work, it will be about amending harm done where possible, not just apologizing.
i don't know if you have done any steps at all, and i remember very clearly that step nine, the actual making of amends, is something that kept me away from AA for a long time, and later kept me from starting the steps.
fear.
and disbelief that by the time i got to 9, i would be very ready.
in any case, the program as laid out in the big book is very clear on concerns about consequences to ourselves and speaks about the general principles relating to this on page 79.
yep, sounds scary if you are just starting out.
but you will be ready if you follow the process of getting there.
i don't know if you have done any steps at all, and i remember very clearly that step nine, the actual making of amends, is something that kept me away from AA for a long time, and later kept me from starting the steps.
fear.
and disbelief that by the time i got to 9, i would be very ready.
in any case, the program as laid out in the big book is very clear on concerns about consequences to ourselves and speaks about the general principles relating to this on page 79.
yep, sounds scary if you are just starting out.
but you will be ready if you follow the process of getting there.
I'll just add to the above, that it's not an all-or-nothing. You aren't magically cured if you do all the steps "right" and you aren't bound to relapse if you start like a baby, crawling. You don't have to make every single amends possible when you get to step 9; living in the steps is a lifelong process.
Just never leave the first step behind and you'll be ok.
Just never leave the first step behind and you'll be ok.
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Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 2,775
That's a tricky one. I guess it also depends on what kind of sexual harassment it was. This me too movement is no joke. By all means sexual harassment is wrong and victims shouldn't have to put up with sexual harassment.
But at the same time you really don't have to do much anymore in this environment and still be accused of sexual harassment when there really was no wrong doing.
The 9th step says, "Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others."
"Others" can also mean you. If there's a chance you can be in serious trouble I wouldn't make amends for this. At least not now. Right now I would put this amend in your Higher Power's hands and ask for forgiveness.
But at the same time you really don't have to do much anymore in this environment and still be accused of sexual harassment when there really was no wrong doing.
The 9th step says, "Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others."
"Others" can also mean you. If there's a chance you can be in serious trouble I wouldn't make amends for this. At least not now. Right now I would put this amend in your Higher Power's hands and ask for forgiveness.
You know where to find the person you wronged.
It is up to God and the other person to decided what will happen next.
Now... having said that. After getting sober I owned a very large company a lot of money. A good 10 grand or more and I was pretty much broke. I could afford to payback maybe a thousand or two a year.
Then I heard of one of the local AA gurus share in a meeting they cut corners on their US taxes. They justified it by saying they didn`t agree with what the U.S. President was doing at the time.
I thought how convenient. This guy goes on about rigorous honestly but that doesn`t include paying taxes.
So what about the 10 grand I owed?
Well, I thought if that guy is gong to justify cheating on his taxes than I`m quite sure the company I owned money to could do without it.
And that was that. Was it right thing to do?
Probably not but I justified what I did. I did not actually take money from the company but used equipment without paying.
So to the OP it`s up to you. You know what you did and what you can live with.
Good luck.
This woman might wonder why you are trying to contact her. She might even think you're stalking her even though your intentions are good, especially if you sexually harassed her. She could have a boy friend or husband who is thinking why is this man contacting her again and what is he really up to.
You could also have a girl friend or wife who is wondering why you are contacting this woman and might think your intentions aren't good.
And it could bring up painful memories to this woman who might have just moved on and gotten on with her life. These are some of the risks that are possible.
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Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 2,775
Perhaps you might consider speaking with an attorney
I was thinking the same thing.
I was thinking back of how men and women used to cut up where I worked in years past. A lot of sexual innuendos were said in jest. We were just trying to lighten up the mood as it were.
The point is, we were all friends and were joking around.
Today’s climate this behavior is not acceptable.
The pendulum has swung from one side all the way to the other side.
This all sounds like projecting a ton of trouble based on conjecture and worry.
Why worry so much about one possible turn in the future, which you can choose not to take, which might end up 1,000 different ways if you take it -- why worry now when you've barely started the steps?
Your real work is getting sober and confronting *yourself.*
Are you looking for an "out" from AA?
Why worry so much about one possible turn in the future, which you can choose not to take, which might end up 1,000 different ways if you take it -- why worry now when you've barely started the steps?
Your real work is getting sober and confronting *yourself.*
Are you looking for an "out" from AA?
I'd say work the first 8 steps and then the answer might become more clear on what you should do.
I avoided doing the steps for over 20+ years because I couldn't possibly imagine making amends for some of the things I had done in my life. That kept me from the solution and permanent sobriety. When I finally worked the steps it became much clearer on what I needed to do regarding my amends when I got to that point. Each step is designed to prepare you for the next one, and by step 9 I wasn't the same person I was before I started the steps.
I avoided doing the steps for over 20+ years because I couldn't possibly imagine making amends for some of the things I had done in my life. That kept me from the solution and permanent sobriety. When I finally worked the steps it became much clearer on what I needed to do regarding my amends when I got to that point. Each step is designed to prepare you for the next one, and by step 9 I wasn't the same person I was before I started the steps.
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Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: East Coast USA
Posts: 1,063
I am pretty sure that the AA program is not focused on sending anyone to jail as part of their step work.
In the AA meetings I have attended on Step 9 I think the general opinion of the old timers would be that the part about "except when to do so would injure them or others" would apply in this case.
My sponsor pointed out to me some time ago that in step 8 one needs to become willing to make amends to all. But the step 9 exception regarding harm/injury puts some limits on who you actually make amends to. For me there are plenty of Step 9 amends I can make where the harm/injury exception does not apply. That's what I focused on.
Going on a bit farther back on the steps list to step 4 and 5 I remember an AA old timer advising us not to use their sponsor for step 5 if you have some criminal acts included in your situation. That's why a clergy person or licensed psychologist who is protected by law to keep things confidential may be needed for step 5.
It's all about progress not perfection.
In the AA meetings I have attended on Step 9 I think the general opinion of the old timers would be that the part about "except when to do so would injure them or others" would apply in this case.
My sponsor pointed out to me some time ago that in step 8 one needs to become willing to make amends to all. But the step 9 exception regarding harm/injury puts some limits on who you actually make amends to. For me there are plenty of Step 9 amends I can make where the harm/injury exception does not apply. That's what I focused on.
Going on a bit farther back on the steps list to step 4 and 5 I remember an AA old timer advising us not to use their sponsor for step 5 if you have some criminal acts included in your situation. That's why a clergy person or licensed psychologist who is protected by law to keep things confidential may be needed for step 5.
It's all about progress not perfection.
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Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 2,775
None of my business the full nature of your post but it reminded me of something that happened a few years ago.
Man convicted after apology leaves jail - US news - Crime & courts | NBC News
Man convicted after apology leaves jail - US news - Crime & courts | NBC News
The man would have done 10 years had the assault occurred after the law was changed in 1994.
Here's a hypocritical question: Say the man is without family obligations. Should he have made the amends if he knew he would have to do ten years?
He did the crime and the woman is still very angry.
Pgae 79 on amends: " Reminding ourselves that we have decided to go to any lengths to find a spiritual experience, we ask that we be given strength and direction to do the right thing, no matter what the personal consequences may be. We may lose our position or reputation or face jail, but we are willing. We have to be. We must not shrink at anything."
There is nothing here that leads me to believe I can include myself in "others", and grammatically, that would make absolutely no sense anyway.
However, that part of the book also explains that we ought to consult with all who might be affected before taking any drastic action.
There is nothing here that leads me to believe I can include myself in "others", and grammatically, that would make absolutely no sense anyway.
However, that part of the book also explains that we ought to consult with all who might be affected before taking any drastic action.
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