Repeating step 4 versus a daily step 10
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Repeating step 4 versus a daily step 10
Can someone explain the difference between doing another Step 4 every few years or so, versus doing a daily Step 10?
What is the difference between someone's first Step 4, and their next Step 4?
What is the difference between someone's first Step 4, and their next Step 4?
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For me, and in my understanding of each of these steps...
The daily step 10on p 86 is what I use each morning, about the day prior. I feel that "sleeping on it" gives me a little more perspective to answered questions honestly. I literally think of how my day went, how I interacted with people, etc. as I have gotten used to this routine, my mind tends to go to things like "was I thinking about my husbands feelings during that discussion, or just what I wanted?" And was my day mostly about me and my needs, or what I could do at work/life/with fam for others....sometimes I make notes in my day planner that contains pr try much my whole life.
To me, this is a retrospective of one day- so we are focusing on the present, and things like something I need to talk to someone about and acting on it, or making a prompt apology.
Step four is global. It is an historical retrospective, so to speak. It should also be useful to recall what we do not want to feel or hold onto or do to others, ever again. While my first sponsor advised me not to get bogged down trying to recall every Item that could possibly fit into any of the step four inventories. , she also suggested I go back to childhood, growing up, up to when I quit and click through things that stood out. Remembering to put myself on that resentment list! I believe the effort at shedding these burdens is indeed as critical as AA teaches us, so we can turn them over and let them go.
It has also been explained to me that doing future step fours, like I will next year, can help us as more things come to mind. I think of this like it would be too much to deal with allll of my crap at one time! I'd crumble and fall apart, quite possibly. I don't think our brains, hearts, emotione can process but so much at a time. So, things come up as we are capable of handling them better. I wouldn't have been able to deal with some regrets nor be truly able to proceed to making amends on everything that would be on some exhaustive imaginary step four.
I also think of my recovery, now, as living in 1,10,11 and 12. Acceptance is the foundation of all, hence step one, taking my own inventory and righting wrongs as I go along, etc is daily step ten practice.keeping spiritually fit using step 11, (see p85) for me my morning d votionals and such, brings me to service to others which is twelve, AAs ultimate purpose. I had to do all the other steps, and I have to refresh myself on their significance, to live with the four I just explained.
Does any of that make sense?
The daily step 10on p 86 is what I use each morning, about the day prior. I feel that "sleeping on it" gives me a little more perspective to answered questions honestly. I literally think of how my day went, how I interacted with people, etc. as I have gotten used to this routine, my mind tends to go to things like "was I thinking about my husbands feelings during that discussion, or just what I wanted?" And was my day mostly about me and my needs, or what I could do at work/life/with fam for others....sometimes I make notes in my day planner that contains pr try much my whole life.
To me, this is a retrospective of one day- so we are focusing on the present, and things like something I need to talk to someone about and acting on it, or making a prompt apology.
Step four is global. It is an historical retrospective, so to speak. It should also be useful to recall what we do not want to feel or hold onto or do to others, ever again. While my first sponsor advised me not to get bogged down trying to recall every Item that could possibly fit into any of the step four inventories. , she also suggested I go back to childhood, growing up, up to when I quit and click through things that stood out. Remembering to put myself on that resentment list! I believe the effort at shedding these burdens is indeed as critical as AA teaches us, so we can turn them over and let them go.
It has also been explained to me that doing future step fours, like I will next year, can help us as more things come to mind. I think of this like it would be too much to deal with allll of my crap at one time! I'd crumble and fall apart, quite possibly. I don't think our brains, hearts, emotione can process but so much at a time. So, things come up as we are capable of handling them better. I wouldn't have been able to deal with some regrets nor be truly able to proceed to making amends on everything that would be on some exhaustive imaginary step four.
I also think of my recovery, now, as living in 1,10,11 and 12. Acceptance is the foundation of all, hence step one, taking my own inventory and righting wrongs as I go along, etc is daily step ten practice.keeping spiritually fit using step 11, (see p85) for me my morning d votionals and such, brings me to service to others which is twelve, AAs ultimate purpose. I had to do all the other steps, and I have to refresh myself on their significance, to live with the four I just explained.
Does any of that make sense?
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i don't see a "vs" in that; i know many people who do repeated step fours plus daily step tens.
I am not one of them, nor do i understand it. once i did four and onward, a daily ten takes care of new things comingup, or older things i had forgotten about when i was doing four. doing a daily ten means to me that there is nothing to do a four about again.
i cleaned up the wreckage of the past and now daily clean up whatever i mess up.
I am not one of them, nor do i understand it. once i did four and onward, a daily ten takes care of new things comingup, or older things i had forgotten about when i was doing four. doing a daily ten means to me that there is nothing to do a four about again.
i cleaned up the wreckage of the past and now daily clean up whatever i mess up.
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Originally Posted by August252015 
The daily step 10on p 86 is what I use each morning, about the day prior. I feel that "sleeping on it" gives me a little more perspective to answered questions honestly. I literally think of how my day went, how I interacted with people, etc. as I have gotten used to this routine, my mind tends to go to things like "was I thinking about my husbands feelings during that discussion, or just what I wanted?" And was my day mostly about me and my needs, or what I could do at work/life/with fam for others....sometimes I make notes in my day planner that contains pr try much my whole life.
To me, this is a retrospective of one day- so we are focusing on the present, and things like something I need to talk to someone about and acting on it, or making a prompt apology.
Step four is global. It is an historical retrospective, so to speak. It should also be useful to recall what we do not want to feel or hold onto or do to others, ever again. While my first sponsor advised me not to get bogged down trying to recall every Item that could possibly fit into any of the step four inventories. , she also suggested I go back to childhood, growing up, up to when I quit and click through things that stood out. Remembering to put myself on that resentment list! I believe the effort at shedding these burdens is indeed as critical as AA teaches us, so we can turn them over and let them go.
I can't recall if I put myself on the resentment list. I think I was told to put myself on the list last, but I'm not sure. I remember my first sponsor said that we make amends to ourselves and to God by going through the steps.
It has also been explained to me that doing future step fours, like I will next year, can help us as more things come to mind.
I think of this like it would be too much to deal with allll of my crap at one time! I'd crumble and fall apart, quite possibly. I don't think our brains, hearts, emotione can process but so much at a time.
I also think of my recovery, now, as living in 1,10,11 and 12.
Acceptance is the foundation of all, hence step one, taking my own inventory and righting wrongs as I go along, etc is daily step ten practice.keeping spiritually fit using step 11, (see p85) for me my morning d votionals and such, brings me to service to others which is twelve, AAs ultimate purpose. I had to do all the other steps, and I have to refresh myself on their significance, to live with the four I just explained.
Does any of that make sense?
Thanks for a great explanation!
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Originally Posted by fini
i don't see a "vs" in that; i know many people who do repeated step fours plus daily step tens.
I am not one of them, nor do i understand it. once i did four and onward, a daily ten takes care of new things comingup, or older things i had forgotten about when i was doing four. doing a daily ten means to me that there is nothing to do a four about again.
i cleaned up the wreckage of the past and now daily clean up whatever i mess up.
i cleaned up the wreckage of the past and now daily clean up whatever i mess up.
For me, doing that was very harmful. What you and August wrote makes so much more sense. I hadn't realized that's how some of you were taught. I think after I finish taking my current sponsees through the steps, I will teach new sponsees this way.
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step 4 teaches me how to do step 10
step 10 keeps the blocks and barriers between the HP and myself removed daily
I "must" keep the pathway open between us or I will let the old insane ego rebuild itself and I will go back insane and kill myself or drink.
if someone wants to redo a 4th step occasionally,it is a good idea to do it different every so often( 5 yrs?) so you can see different things
since we alcoholics get slack easily,it is good to redo one sometimes.Keeps soberiety fresh for me
one last note,if you do one of those quick and easy 4th step,it puts more importance and effort on step 10 daily,if you go in depth,it makes step 10 daily a lot easier
just my experience
step 10 keeps the blocks and barriers between the HP and myself removed daily
I "must" keep the pathway open between us or I will let the old insane ego rebuild itself and I will go back insane and kill myself or drink.
if someone wants to redo a 4th step occasionally,it is a good idea to do it different every so often( 5 yrs?) so you can see different things
since we alcoholics get slack easily,it is good to redo one sometimes.Keeps soberiety fresh for me
one last note,if you do one of those quick and easy 4th step,it puts more importance and effort on step 10 daily,if you go in depth,it makes step 10 daily a lot easier
just my experience
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Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 8,674
Originally Posted by Pathwaytofree
Thanks, August. This was a great reply. I also answer the questions on page 86 to see if I missed anything from the prior night's review. I'm not as disciplined as I'd like to be, but I'm getting better. My current sponsor also suggests I add "what went well today" so I can also look at my accomplishments instead of just focusing on my mistakes. What kind of notes do you write in your planner regarding the 10th step? I'm not sure I understand.
Path, to try to answer your questions on this iPad...
Notes I might make are things like....I was short with Cliff (my husband), need to do better when I am tired; or, I was really focused on what I wanted today, need to pay more attention to what's going on with others....
Also in this category I would make notes about something I need to put my big girl panties on and deal with, so to speak- a conversation about something that has been eating at me that really needs to be had....acknowledging a need or a hurt I have with my husband, in a calm way...when I am disturbed about a work or personal relationship interaction, and need to talk to my sponsor about it....I also jot down notes if things I ask God to handle, like prayers for my step daughters start to a different and challenging 11th grade....
I do love the point of the step work that we clear away the wreckage of our past, and just focus on the now. I am still unclear about what sort of things we should talk to people about. Can you give me examples? I'm also unclear about what is owed an apology. I'm assuming little stuff, too, and not just the big stuff, yes? But how do we do this without overdoing it?
See notes above about things we should talk about. Not letting things fester, and learning how to communicate calmly and effectively takes practices for me. Also, I have gotten better at listening to the little voice that tells me when i did or said something that I nee d to apologize for. Sometimes it isn't even something the other person really registered, but I know I didn't behave the way I should have.
That's a great way to describe it. You're very fortunate that your first sponsor advised you to not get bogged down writing every little thing. Mine was the opposite and it was nuts. It was harmful.
I can't recall if I put myself on the resentment list. I think I was told to put myself on the list last, but I'm not sure. I remember my first sponsor said that we make amends to ourselves and to God by going through the steps.
That makes sense now. I now recall reading somewhere that first we get out the boulders, then the rocks and pebbles later on.
Agreed. This is what happened to me. I'm certain this happened to other people in my home group, but no will admit to it. It was too much for me all at once. It also led to an extremely long, draining writing process--stuck in the muck of the past--and an extremely long, draining 5th step.
Understand totally. I clearly remember the day the weight of my fourth hit me, while I was on the phone talking to my sponsor. I bawled. Within a day or so of that, I woke up in the middle of the night and was sitting at my computer and just got wracked with sobs. Cliff was there and could just hold me while I let it out. After that, being able to compartmentalize thoughts about the past became easier.
I view my recovery this way as well.
Just thought of some other things I make notes of in my planner...things like a line from the days devotional that really resonates or something that connects to something that's bugging me or I am not doing well like I describe above. I also make notes about good stuff I have done, even little things, or a prayer of thanks for x or y. You should see how full of notes plenty of my days are. Every morning I list out my five recovery to dos and cross them off. Centering my days and thoughts in an ongoing and habitual way helps me tremendously.
That's very well put.
Yes, it does. What my former home group had us do all at once, other groups do over the years. It makes perfect sense. I wish I had done my step work this way.
Thanks for a great explanation!
Path, to try to answer your questions on this iPad...
Notes I might make are things like....I was short with Cliff (my husband), need to do better when I am tired; or, I was really focused on what I wanted today, need to pay more attention to what's going on with others....
Also in this category I would make notes about something I need to put my big girl panties on and deal with, so to speak- a conversation about something that has been eating at me that really needs to be had....acknowledging a need or a hurt I have with my husband, in a calm way...when I am disturbed about a work or personal relationship interaction, and need to talk to my sponsor about it....I also jot down notes if things I ask God to handle, like prayers for my step daughters start to a different and challenging 11th grade....
I do love the point of the step work that we clear away the wreckage of our past, and just focus on the now. I am still unclear about what sort of things we should talk to people about. Can you give me examples? I'm also unclear about what is owed an apology. I'm assuming little stuff, too, and not just the big stuff, yes? But how do we do this without overdoing it?
See notes above about things we should talk about. Not letting things fester, and learning how to communicate calmly and effectively takes practices for me. Also, I have gotten better at listening to the little voice that tells me when i did or said something that I nee d to apologize for. Sometimes it isn't even something the other person really registered, but I know I didn't behave the way I should have.
That's a great way to describe it. You're very fortunate that your first sponsor advised you to not get bogged down writing every little thing. Mine was the opposite and it was nuts. It was harmful.
I can't recall if I put myself on the resentment list. I think I was told to put myself on the list last, but I'm not sure. I remember my first sponsor said that we make amends to ourselves and to God by going through the steps.
That makes sense now. I now recall reading somewhere that first we get out the boulders, then the rocks and pebbles later on.
Agreed. This is what happened to me. I'm certain this happened to other people in my home group, but no will admit to it. It was too much for me all at once. It also led to an extremely long, draining writing process--stuck in the muck of the past--and an extremely long, draining 5th step.
Understand totally. I clearly remember the day the weight of my fourth hit me, while I was on the phone talking to my sponsor. I bawled. Within a day or so of that, I woke up in the middle of the night and was sitting at my computer and just got wracked with sobs. Cliff was there and could just hold me while I let it out. After that, being able to compartmentalize thoughts about the past became easier.
I view my recovery this way as well.
Just thought of some other things I make notes of in my planner...things like a line from the days devotional that really resonates or something that connects to something that's bugging me or I am not doing well like I describe above. I also make notes about good stuff I have done, even little things, or a prayer of thanks for x or y. You should see how full of notes plenty of my days are. Every morning I list out my five recovery to dos and cross them off. Centering my days and thoughts in an ongoing and habitual way helps me tremendously.
That's very well put.
Yes, it does. What my former home group had us do all at once, other groups do over the years. It makes perfect sense. I wish I had done my step work this way.
Thanks for a great explanation!
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Originally Posted by Tommyh
step 4 teaches me how to do step 10
step 10 keeps the blocks and barriers between the HP and myself removed daily
I "must" keep the pathway open between us or I will let the old insane ego rebuild itself and I will go back insane and kill myself or drink.
if someone wants to redo a 4th step occasionally,it is a good idea to do it different every so often( 5 yrs?) so you can see different things
since we alcoholics get slack easily,it is good to redo one sometimes.Keeps soberiety fresh for me
one last note,if you do one of those quick and easy 4th step,it puts more importance and effort on step 10 daily,if you go in depth,it makes step 10 daily a lot easier
just my experience
step 10 keeps the blocks and barriers between the HP and myself removed daily
I "must" keep the pathway open between us or I will let the old insane ego rebuild itself and I will go back insane and kill myself or drink.
if someone wants to redo a 4th step occasionally,it is a good idea to do it different every so often( 5 yrs?) so you can see different things
since we alcoholics get slack easily,it is good to redo one sometimes.Keeps soberiety fresh for me
one last note,if you do one of those quick and easy 4th step,it puts more importance and effort on step 10 daily,if you go in depth,it makes step 10 daily a lot easier
just my experience
However in the book step ten is not described as a daily routine. It is an as and when required step. It is not done in the morning or evening. The book tells us what to watch out for, and what to do when it crops up. The suggested actions each include an admonion to avoid delay and clean it up quickly. "at once", "immediately" and "quickly" are the specific words. Nothing about waiting for the end of the day, or the end of the year. Even the wording of the step uses "promptly"
Step eleven clearly has the daily revue, where we might catch something missed on our step 10 during the day.
Delay with this step certainly guarantees issues will build up and an annual housecleaning is going to be a big deal. By definition it will have to include amends, so why would you want to spend any time at all thinking about the ever growing list of wrongs and resentments which at some futue specified date you are going to have to face, if you can stay sober long enough to do that.
Far better to clean up any new mistakes as we go along.
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Thanks August--your posts have always been very helpful for me.
Mike good to see you back--thanks for adding the clarification. Sometimes I combine Step 10 & 11 when I talk about them, since I read 84-88 at once. Your post was a helpful reminder that I need to keep them as separate disciplines.
Mike good to see you back--thanks for adding the clarification. Sometimes I combine Step 10 & 11 when I talk about them, since I read 84-88 at once. Your post was a helpful reminder that I need to keep them as separate disciplines.
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Originally Posted by August252015
^^^ somewhere along the way I think I decided Step 10 inventory sounded better!
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