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Old-Timers' Problems

Old 04-04-2018, 06:34 PM
  # 21 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Tatsy View Post
Hi Gals and Guys, humour me if you will, because I used to be an AAer and am curious. The OP is 74 years old, been sober for 34 years, had their current sponsor make innapropriate “sexual statements” and is seeking guidance on firing the current sponsor, and seeking a new sponsor.

I’m in the UK and here, sponsors are sought to provide guidance and knowledge whilst working the steps and maybe hand-holding for a while longer. I just don’t understand how someone would require a sponsor after 34 years of sobriety. So please, maybe the term “sponsor” after that initial step learning period, should actually be called a “friend” or a “buddy”. I say this because, if a step sponsor is still required, then perhaps the sponsor hasn’t correctly taught the steps?

Please help me here, I realise it’s just terminology, but I don’t understand, and maybe one day I’ll meet someone for whom the steps will work, but I don’t know how I can recommend the steps, if a sponsor is ‘for life’ and the person can’t stand on their own feet afterwards.

I thought a sponsor was a guide and teacher, so surely if they performed their role correctly, they could step aside at some point, and allow their sponsee, to go on to sponsor others. At the same time, continuing in a friend and guide role, perhaps. Semantics, I know, but I feel it’s an important point in terms of self-reliance, or otherwise, maybe, risking dependency?
Co-dependency can a problem in AA.

Some feed off the sponsor/sponsee relationship regardless of time.

Personally, I measure growth on how I handle my affairs without having to run to someone in or out of AA.

Which isn't to suggest I don't ask for help when the **** hits the fan but to say not nearly as often as years back.

Why someone with 34 years in AA would need help finding a sponsor is rather surprising. Sure it might be difficult finding someone with more sobriety time but certainly not someone with emotional balance.

A sobriety date means the person hasn't had a drink since xxx but says nothing about quality of life.

I was in the States recently and attending new meetings. One fellow I met with time in the program told me last year when we first met he's a "spiritual person on a spiritual path."

Unfortunately when we met again last month he seems to have taken a detour from this spiritual path.

He's in the middle of a divorce and very upset.
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Old 04-08-2018, 10:07 AM
  # 22 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Lynn830 View Post
I have 34 years sobriety (and am 74 years old)... I more need someone to work through problems of living.
I seriously want what YOU have. 34 years sober and still admitting that you need help and don't know it all? THAT, my friend, is the definition of true ego-crushing humility! I'll tell you what. I will sponsor you if, you in turn, be one of my sponsors.

I second what somebody above said about counseling though. But find a substance abuse counselor - one who knows of alcoholism, recovery and the human condition. I think it would help you immensely.
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Old 04-08-2018, 10:14 AM
  # 23 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Gottalife View Post
Tatsy, I get your point and wonder the same thing. You would have a good friend in Clarence Snyder, the guy who founded the Cleveland group. He explained that an individual works steps one to nine once and never goes back there. Then they move to steps ten-twelve which involves sponsoring others. The only time they go back to those early steps is when teaching someone new. The process was sponsor, steps, sponsoring. Cleveland group was so successful that many people thought that was where AA started.

Ebby was Bill's sponsor, so Bill said. He was the guy that showed him the original program and took him through it. But Ebby didn't stay in AA, and Bill never had another sponsor. Instead he went a sponsoring. Luckily for us.

Archive show that Doctor Bob sponsored about 5000 newcomers. That works out as one for every day of his sobriety. Same deal. There is no way he could have maintained the life coach nonsense with that number of people. Yet his efforts helped AA grow phenomenally, luckily for me.

I hear some people introduce themselves as having a sponsor who has a sponsor. I don't get it. In my observation these dynastical structures can become quite harmful and introduce a whole lot of opinion, diluting the original message in the book. Why work with God and the book when you have answerman for your sponsor. We had the lady super sponsor, had seventy women under her wing, all running on stupid cliches, all afraid to change their socks without talking to this old gal first. She meant well, never said or did anything that wasn't out of love and concern, but when she died, about half her flock fell off the wagon.

I think there is far too much emphasis on being sponsored, which can be relying on human aid, something that doesn't work for us. Even the research shows we need to be sponsoring, that being sponsored iisn't near as likely to keep us sober.

Nothing wrong with wise counsel, spiritual mentors etc, in fact the book encourages us to grow spiritually and use resources outside of AA. But life time sponsorship? Sometimes looks like co-dependency, not at all attractive.
This is very wise. Thanks.
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Old 04-09-2018, 06:28 AM
  # 24 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Gottalife View Post

I hear some people introduce themselves as having a sponsor who has a sponsor. I don't get it.
mike, i hear a man who quite often mentions coffee/dinner with his sponsor,grand sponsor, and great grand sponsor.
those titles weird me out.
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Old 04-09-2018, 07:39 AM
  # 25 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by awuh1 View Post
Another possibility might be to look for a spiritual adviser or mentor?
I'm intrigued. How does someone find a spiritual adviser or mentor?
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Old 04-09-2018, 07:46 AM
  # 26 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Gottalife View Post
I have one AA friend just turned 20 years, who has an amazing spiritual life.
Mike, I would love to read what your friend's amazing spiritual life is like, and what he did to get there.

But their job is NOT to tell me what to do, it is to help me find what God's will is for me.
I've heard this too. It's easier to be sponsor-dependent, more difficult to be God-dependent, but that is the key.
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Old 04-10-2018, 05:02 AM
  # 27 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Pathwaytofree View Post
Mike, I would love to read what your friend's amazing spiritual life is like, and what he did to get there.


I've heard this too. It's easier to be sponsor-dependent, more difficult to be God-dependent, but that is the key.
My friend was about 7years sober when I first met him, and right from the start I was rally taken with his personal practices with prayer and meditation, which he often shared in the meeting. Travelling with him a bit, his level of serenity was also attractive. He occasionally gave me great examples of the program in action. One time we were in Malaysia and I was rather unkind to the taxi driver. My friend, practicing that principle about appreciating people who are not as well off, gave the guy a big tip to make up for my rudeness. He never said anything to me, but I got the lesson.

In recent years he runs a business and gives all profits to a school in an impoverished part of Asia. He has also spent a lot of time with in a monestary there, once doing a non stop 36 hour meditation which was part of the training. It is much more about what he is doing rather than what he did.

Spiritual mentors... I believe father Ed Dowling was Bill’s spiritual mentor. Some folks in aa go to regular retreats, usually in monestary type settings, and there are usually some monks around to help deepen ones spiritual life. They are around for sure.
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Old 04-10-2018, 01:07 PM
  # 28 (permalink)  
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At a meeting in Key West ~20 or so years ago, we had a visitor tell his story.

I think he was a long-retired lawyer (perhaps I will be one some day) who had practiced in Los Angeles and had moved to Florida.

I think he implied that his sponsor's sponsor was Bill W.

He was a fascinating man.
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Old 04-10-2018, 05:41 PM
  # 29 (permalink)  
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It is much more about what he is doing rather than what he did.

thats great Mike
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Old 04-12-2018, 05:01 AM
  # 30 (permalink)  
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IDK my "old timers" problem is my knees have gone bad.

I haven't had a formal sponsor in many years. I have a meditation practice, trybreakfast a couple times a month with my friend Dale, have had nearly daily contact for over 30 years with another friend and have more than a few other people who will help me bury a body or call me out on my BS as to why that's not a good idea. I also have a mediation practice that keeps me in balance when I actually practice it and try my best to practice the principles of the Steps over the course of my day.

My 2 cents.

-allan
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