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Old 06-19-2017, 06:15 AM   #1 (permalink)
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HP question


I'm working step 3 with an ace sponsor.
I have no problem with a HP but not one that lives deep down inside me. It's definitely "out there" and for sure its not me. My sponsor seems to interpret this as "You must find a HP or you will die".
Well, I've always known it was there and I've overcome the idea that it wouldn't concern itself with puny ole me and am much happier as a result of step 2.
Now I've written all that I'm not sure what question I am asking.
I feel that my faith in my HP is being criticised and that I'll have to tell my sponsor a lie. Not that I have got to the point of turning my will and my life over yet. I'd worry what's going to be expected of me.
Perhaps someone out there in the world has experience of this.
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Old 06-19-2017, 06:35 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Hi Weev! I have struggled a lot with the HP idea. For many people it is undeniably a religious god, but I'm seeing a lot more diversity the more people I meet. A lot of young people see HP as the universe, the forces in the world... Even something as abstract as a philosophy. It should be authentic to you; I wouldn't suggest lying to your sponsor. It would come out anyway :-) I don't let the others in AA make me feel like there's any specific expectation of HP. It's just to recognize that something else exists that will guide you to do the right things and will bring hope and peace to your life!
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Old 06-19-2017, 06:40 AM   #3 (permalink)
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I struggle with the concept of HP aswell. Someone once said that I can define it as a "force for good" which works as well as anything else for me.
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Old 06-19-2017, 06:53 AM   #4 (permalink)
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I had to be careful not to put people on pedestals I as would never measure up to their expectations. Your ace is just another drunk like all of us.

I had to let my truths be found over time. I did the step to the best of my ability with full transparency as I could muster then. I was honest about my place and confusion. I kept going.

It was in that 4th step where I began to understand the nature of my issues and started to get some relief. Many simpy hung up and don't get to that point.

Our chips read To thine ownself be true. Remember that and keep working.

You're doing great
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Old 06-19-2017, 07:48 AM   #5 (permalink)
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I'd agree with Fly N Buy.

I think it's enough for now that you accept that there's a higher power and more importantly, that it's not you. That was how I started and it was a struggle at first to believe that this higher power could even help me. That belief came in time as I worked the steps.

Today, a long time later, I still don't know what my higher power exactly is, but I do know that it works. It's been an ongoing process of learning and my understanding is always evolving.

I've placed sponsors on pedestals before and then was disappointed when they acted like any other human. Sometimes they might not have all the answers for us and we have to find in our hearts what's best for our path.
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Old 06-19-2017, 08:15 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Fly N By is right-a sponsor is just another drunk who was sponsored by someone else. None of them are perfect.

The HP was something that I struggled with and also thought was ¨out there¨. But I followed this suggestion: write down 5 things (more or less) that your personal HP believes in , or a few ¨non-negotiables¨ that your HP stands for. Whether it lives deep down inside you or not is your business, not your sponsor´s.

Keep up the good work!
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Old 06-19-2017, 08:21 AM   #7 (permalink)
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reading your post, Weev, i'm not sure i understand. it sounds like you have "done" step 2 , and that your sponsor is not in agreement with your understanding of what this power-greater-than-yourself is?
it's your understanding, not theirs.
it needs to "work" for you, not them.

a sponsor is a guide through stepwork, not an arbiter of appropriate PGTY.
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Old 06-19-2017, 08:29 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Weev1l View Post
I'm working step 3 with an ace sponsor.
I have no problem with a HP but not one that lives deep down inside me. It's definitely "out there" and for sure its not me. My sponsor seems to interpret this as "You must find a HP or you will die".
Well, I've always known it was there and I've overcome the idea that it wouldn't concern itself with puny ole me and am much happier as a result of step 2.
Now I've written all that I'm not sure what question I am asking.
I feel that my faith in my HP is being criticised and that I'll have to tell my sponsor a lie. Not that I have got to the point of turning my will and my life over yet. I'd worry what's going to be expected of me.
Perhaps someone out there in the world has experience of this.

find a HP or not, we're going to die. and finding an HP isnt about doing it or we will die- it is about finding one that can help us with our problem
a person is allowed to have whatever conception/perception of an HP they want, but usually best if that HP isnt themselves.

step 2 is
came to believe in a power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.
i think the big book says:
. i think the bb even says:
We needed to ask ourselves but one short question. "Do I now believe, or am I even willing to believe, that there is a Power greater than myself?" As soon as a man can say that he does believe, or is willing to believe, we emphatically assure him that he is on his way. It has been repeatedly proven among us that upon this simple cornerstone a wonderfully effective spiritual structure can be built.


do you believe the HP you have can restore you to sanity?
how we find out IF that HP could restore us to sanity- welp, thats right in the step:
CAME to believe.....by working the rest of the steps.

no need to be worried about what would be expected at step 3. IF your sponsor has expectations, thats their problem. sponsors arent supposed to have expectations of sponsees as far as i know
step 3:
Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.

the explaination of why starts at the bottom of pg 60 and goes to pg63.

we made a decision to turn it over....and continue on to step 4.

each step prepares us for the next step.

p.s.

as mentioned above- it is wise not to put sponsors on a pedastal. theyre humans,too.
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Old 06-19-2017, 08:38 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Step two:"do you now believe or are you even willing to believe in a power greater than yourself?". Belief is not actually required at this stage and a good thing too.

I didn't believe when I took step three, but I was willing to believe. AA's solution to alcoholism is a spiritual experience leading to a working relationship with a higher power that will,provide a permanent defence against the fatal first drink.

The purpose of steps three and onwards is to bring this relationship to life. I didn't begin to feel the presence of my creator until after step five. Have a read of the fifth step promises, page 75 I think. Of course the ninth step promises are another example that belief develops as we grow through the steps.

Some folks, perhaps many, have their religious convictions right from the start. The rest of us grow into our own understanding through working the steps.
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Old 06-19-2017, 11:27 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Smile no need to lie

Hey Weev
Just tell your sponsor exactly how you feel. If your sponsor really is an ace sponsor your answer will be acceptable. If it isn't acceptable then discuss it. If it can't be discussed then maybe you need to journey with someone different.
I'm in this thing quite a while now and it's only been the past 4 or 5 years that I have had some stability of thought on my Creator.
Keep moving forward

peace

Mike
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Old 06-19-2017, 12:35 PM   #11 (permalink)
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my first 3rd step was
asking whoever or whatever that might be out there to keep me sober today and saying thank you at night.
that was my start,and it worked.
today it has grew into something much bigger.
there is a AA book named Came to Believe that I read then It helped.Chapter 4 is good and so is the appendix II named Spiritual Experience in the back of the book

search and you will find,search like you want too,where you want too
you crack open the door of willingness a little,and It will come to you.
You cannot fail
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Old 06-19-2017, 02:29 PM   #12 (permalink)
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I went to a meeting tonight where no recovery things were discussed just people's problems and I've come home without the sense of relief I normally get.
I'm tired out now but I want to thank you all for taking my question seriously. I'll re-read everything tomorrow. My sponsor is calling to arrange a meet up on the morning.
I'm glad I found you guys.
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Old 06-19-2017, 03:41 PM   #13 (permalink)
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that happens sometimes at meetings.
theres also meetings that are problem based and not solution based.
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Old 06-19-2017, 03:53 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Einstein did not initially believe in a "personal" God either Weev1l. There is some evidence the changed his mind as you have.

I've posted this before but I can't resist the temptation to do it again. It's a talk by a former student of Steven Hawking. The talk contains some of the best ideas regarding spirituality that I've ever come across. The talk is called "The Primacy of Consciousness" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-d4ugppcRUE

Your interaction with your sponsor reminds me of Bill's story. I think your sponsor should read it again and take special notice of what Ebby told Bill on page 12.
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Old 06-19-2017, 04:48 PM   #15 (permalink)
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We here the word willingness a lot as a key - you are demonstrating that. Keep it up - don't drink and all we be sorted out.

Good job
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Old 06-19-2017, 04:51 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Hi weev! I'll repost what I just put in my thread about my 7+month "slip up"...


So, I'll start off with;I'm not religious by any means and was court ordered to attend AA.. I had this past 'one night slip'.. Then last night was a freaking nightmare with my drunk ex(whom I blocked now), I was sober and handled it well.. Anyways.. I was sitting here working from home(when I could/would always drink freely) today, and really was thinking why not? My phone rang.. I don't normally answer unknown numbers but, i did.. It was a guy who got my number from a meeting I only went to 1 time! He was checking on me... I'm sitting here astonished that a complete stranger would call and check on me...Brought a smile to my face and tears after I hung up...Just thought I'd share...hope everyone is well and for the newcomers...people do care/know about the struggle with this "thing". Hang in there!

I'm thinking now that (personally) another person/stranger actually thought to check in on me is my 'higher power'..caring people that have and are dealing with my plight is mind boggling to me. So, for now, I'll say; caring people are my higher power. Just my $.02!
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Old 06-19-2017, 05:44 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
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...I have no problem with a HP but not one that lives deep down inside me. It's definitely "out there" and for sure its not me. ..
Never to overlook the obvious. Have you read the Big Book, We Agnostics?

"We found the Great Reality deep down within us. In the last analysis it is only there that He may be found. It was so with us. "

From a non-AA source, "Although man can forget God or reject him, He never ceases to call every man to seek him,..."

The experience of the first one hundred is fairly clear. God isn't out there, it isn't a door knob, or a tree.
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Old 06-19-2017, 06:37 PM   #18 (permalink)
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I worked those steps with the idea that maybe a power greater than me existed....

I was asked if I was willing to believe a power greater than me existed, and knowing that if I didn't do something different, I would surely die from drinking alcohol again, I knew I was willing to believe

All I needed was Willingness. Then I made a decision to be under the care of that power.....

And when I completed step 7 and a little time passed, I realized that my compulsion and desire to drink had left me.....

With this realization, I had come to believe in that power that was greater than I. (step 2 became "real" after I completed step 7). Which is why I have a real hard time when a sponsor requests that a sponsee "complete" one step before working another. What I've found is that the directions for working the steps, although written in an order, well, they don't always "work" that way when we are "working the steps."

The experience that we have is profound. An experience is difficult to put into words (for me). It is an experience, not something that makes sense or can be relayed well to someone without that particular experience.

Alone, I could not stay stopped, but with this new "power," I am still staying stopped six+ years later.....

Beautiful. Just Beautiful!
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Old 06-19-2017, 06:44 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Choosing a sponsor can be is hit or miss at best.

But comes with the territory. You're new and often don't know the other person that well.

What I find weird are members who take offense when the newcomer decides to make a change.
I experienced this in early recovery.

One member seemed to be personally offended when it because apparent I didn't want him to sponsor me.
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Old 06-22-2017, 02:37 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Just to let all you incredible people know that I took my step 3 today and I'm in a happy little space this evening, safe with my HP, who is indeed of my own choosing, with my dog asleep beside me and I haven't been this calm and happy in many a long year.

I spent the afternoon with my sponsor and all my fears melted away. I guess I'm worried I'll get something wrong with the steps and lose my sobriety - but I'm not sure relapse works that way. I also get the wrong end of the stick on an hourly basis, but thats just brain fog. And even that feels like its lifting daily.

I hope you're all well and safe wherever you are in the world and I look forward to taking my steps with you.
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