HP question
Member
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 36
So WEEVE! what's next?
Nice you made a decision. I found it useless unless followed by action. I was confused thinking I did anything other than make a decision in Step 3. I found I turned it over in step 7 and my evidence of turning it over was step 8 and 9.
Nice you made a decision. I found it useless unless followed by action. I was confused thinking I did anything other than make a decision in Step 3. I found I turned it over in step 7 and my evidence of turning it over was step 8 and 9.
~sb
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: MD
Posts: 15,960
I was told I worked step 3 when I made a commitment to step 5 (setting a day and time for my 5th step; working the 4th step the night before to eliminate relapse prior to step 5 and only 1 night of poor sleep).
That's just how I work it.
That's just how I work it.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Manchester, UK
Posts: 1,111
Thanks for sharing your experience of these first few steps friend.
Keep walking and never forget that sense of peace you're feeling right now...anything that brings you to that place is a perfect example (for me) of a power greater than yourself that will solve your problem...
P
Keep walking and never forget that sense of peace you're feeling right now...anything that brings you to that place is a perfect example (for me) of a power greater than yourself that will solve your problem...
P
Keep Going
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: England
Posts: 1,530
Thanks for that. I feel like something's different in the way I'm handling situations that crop up if I ask for guidance fromHP before I open my mouth.
I'm not as afraid the alcohol will just swallow ME up.
But in truth, I don't know what's going on. I do know I've got to find a way to make myself start step 4, I've found other things to do for two days. I shouldn't think, think, think, I should DO.
I bet my peace and calm will evaporate the moment I write down the first resentment.
Love and peace to you and everyone here
I'm not as afraid the alcohol will just swallow ME up.
But in truth, I don't know what's going on. I do know I've got to find a way to make myself start step 4, I've found other things to do for two days. I shouldn't think, think, think, I should DO.
I bet my peace and calm will evaporate the moment I write down the first resentment.
Love and peace to you and everyone here
12 Step Recovered Alcoholic
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 6,613
Hey Weevl,
Do you have a back to basics beginners meeting in your area. That format takes you through all the steps, and can get you through a fourth step in a few hours. Bearing in mind that inventory is one of the principles of the program, b2b is a great way to learn the principles and make a start on applying them. The step four you start there can be developed to any level you like over time.
We didn't have b2 b when I was new, and I didn't have the wherewithall to tackle that step on my own. I made my sponsor earn his keep. We took step four together on a Saturday, and the next day I took step five with him. Never looked back. The big advantage of working with a sponsor, as opposed to trying to do it on my own, was the understanding that came from his explanations of the meanings of words, and helping get a perspective on how ll this applied to me. If my sponsor had been unwilling to help at this level, I doubt I would still be here.
Do you have a back to basics beginners meeting in your area. That format takes you through all the steps, and can get you through a fourth step in a few hours. Bearing in mind that inventory is one of the principles of the program, b2b is a great way to learn the principles and make a start on applying them. The step four you start there can be developed to any level you like over time.
We didn't have b2 b when I was new, and I didn't have the wherewithall to tackle that step on my own. I made my sponsor earn his keep. We took step four together on a Saturday, and the next day I took step five with him. Never looked back. The big advantage of working with a sponsor, as opposed to trying to do it on my own, was the understanding that came from his explanations of the meanings of words, and helping get a perspective on how ll this applied to me. If my sponsor had been unwilling to help at this level, I doubt I would still be here.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 36
Originally Posted by Weev1l 
Thanks for that. I feel like something's different in the way I'm handling situations that crop up if I ask for guidance fromHP before I open my mouth.
I'm not as afraid the alcohol will just swallow ME up.
But in truth, I don't know what's going on. I do know I've got to find a way to make myself start step 4,
From the BB is an important experience; Though our decision was vital and crucial step, it could have little permanent effect unless at once followed by a strenuous effort to face, and to be rid of, the things in ourselves which had been blocking us. Our liquor was but a symptom. So we had to get down to causes and conditions.
I've found that a decision unless followed by my action is nothing more than a thought. In the old days, Faith without works is dead. I was told stop trying to find God and show me you want to get sober by working the Steps. It was there I found Him.
I'm not as afraid the alcohol will just swallow ME up.
But in truth, I don't know what's going on. I do know I've got to find a way to make myself start step 4,
From the BB is an important experience; Though our decision was vital and crucial step, it could have little permanent effect unless at once followed by a strenuous effort to face, and to be rid of, the things in ourselves which had been blocking us. Our liquor was but a symptom. So we had to get down to causes and conditions.
I've found that a decision unless followed by my action is nothing more than a thought. In the old days, Faith without works is dead. I was told stop trying to find God and show me you want to get sober by working the Steps. It was there I found Him.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Manchester, UK
Posts: 1,111
Originally Posted by Weev1l
Thanks for that. I feel like something's different in the way I'm handling situations that crop up if I ask for guidance fromHP before I open my mouth.
I'm not as afraid the alcohol will just swallow ME up.
But in truth, I don't know what's going on. I do know I've got to find a way to make myself start step 4, I've found other things to do for two days. I shouldn't think, think, think, I should DO.
I bet my peace and calm will evaporate the moment I write down the first resentment.
Love and peace to you and everyone here
I'm not as afraid the alcohol will just swallow ME up.
But in truth, I don't know what's going on. I do know I've got to find a way to make myself start step 4, I've found other things to do for two days. I shouldn't think, think, think, I should DO.
I bet my peace and calm will evaporate the moment I write down the first resentment.
Love and peace to you and everyone here
Just remember it...
P
12 Step Recovered Alcoholic
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 6,613
Originally Posted by paulokes
That sense of peace might get disrupted if you start a 4th step.
P
P
Keep Going
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: England
Posts: 1,530
Bloody hell do I feel bad. I'm not sure why. Monday I stuffed myself with food. Tuesday I wouldn't go home at all and instead went on a shopping spree. Today it looks like it men, got tangled up in coffee shop.
I think I don't want to face up to who I am in step 4. Some pretty obvious character faults are nagging at me.
I am struggling to think that my HP is strong enough to fix me. It was hard enough to accept that he might even notice me in the first place. Is that even what the steps are about? Anyway, it's very painful here. I keep praying so why doesn't it go away? Is this just a basic lack of faith and if so how do I get more trust?
I think I don't want to face up to who I am in step 4. Some pretty obvious character faults are nagging at me.
I am struggling to think that my HP is strong enough to fix me. It was hard enough to accept that he might even notice me in the first place. Is that even what the steps are about? Anyway, it's very painful here. I keep praying so why doesn't it go away? Is this just a basic lack of faith and if so how do I get more trust?
Mini Novel Post Writer
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Maine
Posts: 3,649
Weev, I've often said in meetings that I think everyone should do the steps, even non alcoholics. I've seen a few therapists over the years and none have come close to bringing me the healing and the change thats come by working the steps.
It might help to understand that Step 4 is not about self bashing. You are on a quest to get to the root of what ails you. In turn, to see things from an entirely different perspective. Some pretty amazing things happen as you begin to write. You'll begin to see patterns that you never knew existed. You'll learn things about yourself that you didn't previously see. Once identified, you are given tools to not only release that ton of bricks you've been carrying around on your shoulders, you'll develop new tools that assist you in brushing new bricks off as they come. Life will change. You know the old saying "Don't sweat the small stuff"? The steps have showed me how to do that. Things I would have previously stored for future use (usually an excuse to drink) no longer stay with me now. Some things are harder to let go of than others but still, the fact that you have a tool that can assist you in letting go is incredible.
Have a little faith and trust and begin the writing. I remember when I made my list, then began the resentments. I was surprised to find there were things I thought were inconsequential that really weren't. The best part though were those turnarounds. What a huge eye opener for me. It has nothing to do with blame, it has more to do with realizing who you are, what you're about, and how to change it so you can live a better life.
I've often heard the word "humiliated" when step 4 comes up. I love this saying. “True humility is not thinking less of yourself; it is thinking of yourself less.”
You're going to find a freedom you never imagined possible through your writing. Try to remember that as you're doing the work. Don't focus on what you're seeing, focus on finally being FREE!
I hope this helps.
It might help to understand that Step 4 is not about self bashing. You are on a quest to get to the root of what ails you. In turn, to see things from an entirely different perspective. Some pretty amazing things happen as you begin to write. You'll begin to see patterns that you never knew existed. You'll learn things about yourself that you didn't previously see. Once identified, you are given tools to not only release that ton of bricks you've been carrying around on your shoulders, you'll develop new tools that assist you in brushing new bricks off as they come. Life will change. You know the old saying "Don't sweat the small stuff"? The steps have showed me how to do that. Things I would have previously stored for future use (usually an excuse to drink) no longer stay with me now. Some things are harder to let go of than others but still, the fact that you have a tool that can assist you in letting go is incredible.
Have a little faith and trust and begin the writing. I remember when I made my list, then began the resentments. I was surprised to find there were things I thought were inconsequential that really weren't. The best part though were those turnarounds. What a huge eye opener for me. It has nothing to do with blame, it has more to do with realizing who you are, what you're about, and how to change it so you can live a better life.
I've often heard the word "humiliated" when step 4 comes up. I love this saying. “True humility is not thinking less of yourself; it is thinking of yourself less.”
You're going to find a freedom you never imagined possible through your writing. Try to remember that as you're doing the work. Don't focus on what you're seeing, focus on finally being FREE!
I hope this helps.
Grateful
Join Date: May 2013
Location: NC
Posts: 1,763
Weev,
Faith without works is dead. HP helps those who help themselves. I was in and out of sobriety and in and out of AA for over 20 years and I never got past step 3. In retrospect I have come to believe that it was because all of the steps following the first 3 actually requireg action on my part. Step 4 can be "uncomfortable" at times, but I found out that it also leads to a freedom I could have never imagined. My sponsor this time around gave me a date that we would do my 5th step after we finished the 3rd step (~2 weeks). I had most of it done within a few hours and just added resentments that "percolated" to the top of my head over the next 2 weeks.
To be honest I felt kind of silly for having put off doing the 4th step for over 20 years, and after finally doing it experiencing the freedom I felt after doing my 5th, 6th and 7th steps. But I am a procrastinator by nature so this wasn't the first time I had felt kind of silly for putting something off (it's a character defect I still work on every day).
Faith without works is dead. HP helps those who help themselves. I was in and out of sobriety and in and out of AA for over 20 years and I never got past step 3. In retrospect I have come to believe that it was because all of the steps following the first 3 actually requireg action on my part. Step 4 can be "uncomfortable" at times, but I found out that it also leads to a freedom I could have never imagined. My sponsor this time around gave me a date that we would do my 5th step after we finished the 3rd step (~2 weeks). I had most of it done within a few hours and just added resentments that "percolated" to the top of my head over the next 2 weeks.
To be honest I felt kind of silly for having put off doing the 4th step for over 20 years, and after finally doing it experiencing the freedom I felt after doing my 5th, 6th and 7th steps. But I am a procrastinator by nature so this wasn't the first time I had felt kind of silly for putting something off (it's a character defect I still work on every day).
12 Step Recovered Alcoholic
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 6,613
Originally Posted by Weev1l
Bloody hell do I feel bad. I'm not sure why. Monday I stuffed myself with food. Tuesday I wouldn't go home at all and instead went on a shopping spree. Today it looks like it men, got tangled up in coffee shop.
I think I don't want to face up to who I am in step 4. Some pretty obvious character faults are nagging at me.
I am struggling to think that my HP is strong enough to fix me. It was hard enough to accept that he might even notice me in the first place. Is that even what the steps are about? Anyway, it's very painful here. I keep praying so why doesn't it go away? Is this just a basic lack of faith and if so how do I get more trust?
I think I don't want to face up to who I am in step 4. Some pretty obvious character faults are nagging at me.
I am struggling to think that my HP is strong enough to fix me. It was hard enough to accept that he might even notice me in the first place. Is that even what the steps are about? Anyway, it's very painful here. I keep praying so why doesn't it go away? Is this just a basic lack of faith and if so how do I get more trust?
Step three, turning on the radio. Steps four to nine removing the static and getting tuned in. Usually after five a pretty good signal develops. We feel we are "walking hand in hand with the Spirit of the universe".
That was how I got more faith, by working the steps to get rid of the static and get tuned in the the Power that solves all my problems.
It`s ok to stay sober
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Central NC
Posts: 20,902
I wrote my 4th step out because it is a life and death matter,did I want to stay sober and live or drink and go on to the bitter end?
Writing my 4th out was not nearly as bad as living in the insane hell of my alcoholism.
my job was to operate the pencil,I prayed for help and wrote what came to my mind.That is a good first exercise in relying and trusting in God
I never forgot how that suffering hurt as I write the 4th,i figured as i wrote each resentment out I was one step further away from a drink.i never forgot those most humiliating shameful times while i was drinking as i went thru the steps
trust the process,that if you do it,you can stay sober
let the rest take care of itself
so,it boils down to whether you want to stay sober or not?
we can evade the issue with many things but eventually we will have to face it
Writing my 4th out was not nearly as bad as living in the insane hell of my alcoholism.
my job was to operate the pencil,I prayed for help and wrote what came to my mind.That is a good first exercise in relying and trusting in God
I never forgot how that suffering hurt as I write the 4th,i figured as i wrote each resentment out I was one step further away from a drink.i never forgot those most humiliating shameful times while i was drinking as i went thru the steps
trust the process,that if you do it,you can stay sober
let the rest take care of itself
so,it boils down to whether you want to stay sober or not?
we can evade the issue with many things but eventually we will have to face it
Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: northern michigan. not the U.P.
Posts: 15,281
Originally Posted by Weev1l
I think I don't want to face up to who I am in step 4. Some pretty obvious character faults are nagging at me.
I am struggling to think that my HP is strong enough to fix me. It was hard enough to accept that he might even notice me in the first place. Is that even what the steps are about? Anyway, it's very painful here. I keep praying so why doesn't it go away? Is this just a basic lack of faith and if so how do I get more trust?
great news- there IS a solution!
1st, on the HP thing- YOU are struggling to think your HP is strong enough.
maaaayyyybeeee your HP is sittin there with a smile sayin,"well, ya havent turned it completly over yet. why not try that? let up your grip because ya have your claws dug in. have faith in me."
or
if you think your HP isnt strong enough, find one that is.
ya know how we find out the answers to that?
by continueing with the steps, which here is a line from the bb on the 3rd leading into the 4th:
Though our decision was a vital and crucial step, it could have little permanent effect unless AT ONCEfollowed by a strenuous effort to face, and to be rid of, the things in ourselves which had been blocking us. Our liquor was but a symptom. So we had to get down to causes and conditions.
notice the time frame for in between step 3&4. i think "at once" means NOW.
"I keep praying so why doesn't it go away? Is this just a basic lack of faith and if so how do I get more trust?"
good on ya for prayin!
why doesnt it go away?
prolly because yer not proceeding onto step 4.
how do you get more trust?
get busy on the 4th step.
gonna add one more thing:
"I think I don't want to face up to who I am in step 4"
let me change that:
" i think i dont want to face up to who i used to be in step 4.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: West Tn
Posts: 3,043
I think you are doing an excellent job, weev.
There is some real wisdom on this thread.
Early on, I wanted to believe in God (or a HP if you prefer), but I wanted finite evidence (probably the lawyer in me).
I had my parish priest come out and visit me in treatment.
I asked him how he knew there was a God.
He responded by telling me that the fact that there were places like the treatment center for people like me was a good place to start from my perspective.
I took that simple answer to heart.
What I was trying and hoping to do was to reclaim my childhood faith, which had diminished from cynicism associated with aging (e.g. learning there is no Santa) and a lack of arduous pursuit over the years (even though I went to church fairly regularly).
From those rather modest beginnings in early recovery, I have transcended the path of hoping there is a God, to thinking that there probably is a God, to believing there is a God and, ultimately, to knowing there is a God.
In the early stages, I prayed to God (hoping there was a God) for faith.
It worked.
I have many 24 hours of evidence of God's actions in my life and, specifically, of God taking care and control of my will and my life.
Keep up the great work.
For me, working the steps regularly is a life or death proposition, as Tommyh notes above.
Do I want the Promises in my life or do I want to die an alcoholic death?
In a world of truly tough decisions, the answer to that question is not one of them.
Please keep us posted as to your efforts and result.
There is some real wisdom on this thread.
Early on, I wanted to believe in God (or a HP if you prefer), but I wanted finite evidence (probably the lawyer in me).
I had my parish priest come out and visit me in treatment.
I asked him how he knew there was a God.
He responded by telling me that the fact that there were places like the treatment center for people like me was a good place to start from my perspective.
I took that simple answer to heart.
What I was trying and hoping to do was to reclaim my childhood faith, which had diminished from cynicism associated with aging (e.g. learning there is no Santa) and a lack of arduous pursuit over the years (even though I went to church fairly regularly).
From those rather modest beginnings in early recovery, I have transcended the path of hoping there is a God, to thinking that there probably is a God, to believing there is a God and, ultimately, to knowing there is a God.
In the early stages, I prayed to God (hoping there was a God) for faith.
It worked.
I have many 24 hours of evidence of God's actions in my life and, specifically, of God taking care and control of my will and my life.
Keep up the great work.
For me, working the steps regularly is a life or death proposition, as Tommyh notes above.
Do I want the Promises in my life or do I want to die an alcoholic death?
In a world of truly tough decisions, the answer to that question is not one of them.
Please keep us posted as to your efforts and result.
Keep Going
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: England
Posts: 1,530
I love this thread so much and I love you all too.
I've been trying to have an ongoing dialogue with my HP throughout the day and I don't know whats going on but something is!!! It would be good if I could learn to trust it won't just leave me.
I have some time in the morning to catch up here and work on S4. I know it will hurt and I will avoid pain if I can. So... some discipline needed.
Isn't it wonderful just to be sober and go to bed sober. I must remember that. I haven't done much to be guilty about today either. That's a first.
to all of you
I've been trying to have an ongoing dialogue with my HP throughout the day and I don't know whats going on but something is!!! It would be good if I could learn to trust it won't just leave me.
I have some time in the morning to catch up here and work on S4. I know it will hurt and I will avoid pain if I can. So... some discipline needed.
Isn't it wonderful just to be sober and go to bed sober. I must remember that. I haven't done much to be guilty about today either. That's a first.
to all of you
Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: northern michigan. not the U.P.
Posts: 15,281
good on ya!! yes, weev, the 4th can hurt. look at it this way- pain can be a part of recovery.
i had back surgery a few years ago. afterwards, there were days it really hurt and days it didnt. as i got further away from the day i had surgery, i didnt have as many painful days- because i was recovering from the surgery.
the 4th is part of recovering from the hopeless state of body and mind.
AND
our stories disclose, in a general way, what we USED to be like......
"It would be good if I could learn to trust it won't just leave me.'
welp, you started that learning to trust the day you decided to get help.
you ARE learning .
i had back surgery a few years ago. afterwards, there were days it really hurt and days it didnt. as i got further away from the day i had surgery, i didnt have as many painful days- because i was recovering from the surgery.
the 4th is part of recovering from the hopeless state of body and mind.
AND
our stories disclose, in a general way, what we USED to be like......
"It would be good if I could learn to trust it won't just leave me.'
welp, you started that learning to trust the day you decided to get help.
you ARE learning .
Keep Going
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: England
Posts: 1,530
All of a sudden it's got really really hard to stay sober. I'm at 57 days, I think. I'm not so positive that life in my own sober company is better than life drunk and numb.
Perhaps my head is clearing and I can see the mess I've made for a couple of decades whilst other people were getting on with it and doing it with a bit of grace. I'm not left with much after the alcohol is gone.
I know one, thing. I absolutely don't want to live the life set before me. I have a tense feeling in my stomach area, I'm aware of every heartbeat. and a kind of paralysis to do all the clearing and fixing around the house has set in. I'm lonely and want a husband to hold my hand
actually anything to fix this feeling.
I don't think I have any gratitude. Like, I sobered up for this?! You've got to be kidding me... My sponsor tells me I've got to grow up. But nothing is to my liking. I genuinely can't see why I bothered to sober up. It hurts. I think I'm a dry drunk. I don't like the person I am and don't know how to change.
I have to have everything explained to me twice in AA and I still feel like a lunkhead. AAAGGGH.
I'm sure my HP doesn't want to hear this lot of moaning.
(sorry but I can't seem to get out of this mood since yesterday)
Perhaps my head is clearing and I can see the mess I've made for a couple of decades whilst other people were getting on with it and doing it with a bit of grace. I'm not left with much after the alcohol is gone.
I know one, thing. I absolutely don't want to live the life set before me. I have a tense feeling in my stomach area, I'm aware of every heartbeat. and a kind of paralysis to do all the clearing and fixing around the house has set in. I'm lonely and want a husband to hold my hand
actually anything to fix this feeling. I don't think I have any gratitude. Like, I sobered up for this?! You've got to be kidding me... My sponsor tells me I've got to grow up. But nothing is to my liking. I genuinely can't see why I bothered to sober up. It hurts. I think I'm a dry drunk. I don't like the person I am and don't know how to change.
I have to have everything explained to me twice in AA and I still feel like a lunkhead. AAAGGGH.
I'm sure my HP doesn't want to hear this lot of moaning.
(sorry but I can't seem to get out of this mood since yesterday)
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