Question on AA and God
 

AA- Attended an AA meeting and the speaker said he knew someone thats was struggling with sobriety for 30 years later. The person's hardest year was number 28 due to the loss of family members. My question is does AA over complicate sobriety? If you keep going to meetings for several years and your constantly thinking about Alcholol. I guess maybe it is as straightforward as recovery is not 1 size fits all. I have been reading the Allan Carr book and his brainwashing approach if used correctly I think would help to keep me sober along with many other tools.

2nd question since god is almighty and knowing. How is it possible we have free will if God already knows everything that will happen? If i believed this then the choice i make was already made. Sorry to be like the matrix but i do ponder these. I am open minded and not trying to start a debate. Just open to others thoughts. Thank you in advance.

God knows all that will happen, He guides us, but we have the choice to follow His guidance or not. The God I know Is one who offers advice then steps aside and let's us proceed. He knows what choice we will make and what consequences or rewards we will experience as a result.

Hi Letitgo,

I am into my 5th year of sobriety, thanks to SR. and AA. For me each individual's path to sobriety seems different. The bottom line for me is to stop drinking and stay that way but if it was a struggle after so many years I would question my sobriety, I doubt I would stay sober if I was continually thinking about alcohol and desiring a drink .
I don't get to many meetings for different reasons, mainly distance but I have turned more inward, practising more self awareness. I can easily recognize stressors when they come up and deal with them immediately, I much less stress nowadays than I thought possible.
I just want to say to anyone who is struggling with alcohol, I hope you find something that works for you, never give up trying, it will click one day.

CaiHong

My experience is exactly the opposite. I learned a set of principles to manage how I feel in every aspect of my daily living. Boolean answers to abstract feelings that kept me imprisoned in my thoughts. No, AA simplified my life by giving me a path to sober living. My brain needed washing. No pshrynkology, no doctor, no amount of advanced degrees and education facilitated sobriety for me. AA is not THE answer, it is a path to the answer. He loves you unconditionally. He wants you to chose to accept that love by realizing you have already been forgiven, you need only accept it.

Great stuff. I also ponder how there is 7 billion people on earth and thousands of religions. What make christanity right vs. other religions? How could there be space in heavenfor some many thag have come and gine already? I guess it takes blind faith. I have an extremely hard time not questioning or trying to rationalize these things.

On your questions about complicating sobriety, some of that may be based on a common misconception, that AA members keep attending meetings for the primary reason of taking what they can get. That may be true for those with meetings based sobriety, they often seem to be focussed on not drinking, which is really a form of controlled drinking. When life throws a curve ball, as it will, I have seen more than a few old timers of this type wobble and sometimes fall.

On the other hand, steps (program) based sobriety removes the obsession completely. We don't think about drinking or not drinking. the problem has been removed. It does not exist for us. When we hit one of lifes rough spots we react sanely and normally, the booze does not present as a solution. I know this from losing my father, sponsor and wife over the years.

So, as someone else said, applying the AA program to my daily life, living the principles, actually simplifies my life considerably. I am able to get on with life and alcohol plays no part in it.

letitgo,
I had the same questions that you pose about God, when I first came to AA.
It's not about rationalising;
is not about accepting paradox, this God thing.
As your username suggests, it's about letting go:
letting go of out old ways of thinking, amongst other things,
letting go of impediments to spiritual growth

I now believe that if we seek a personal relationship with God, as we
understand God, our problem will be solved.
What the rest of the world believes is what the rest of the world believes.

If I may make a suggestion:
read page 45 of the Big Book.
About half way down, it tells you what it's about.
Then read all of the book and work through the steps with a sponsor.
All your questions may not be answered.
But, chances are good that your problem will be solved.

I'm not suggesting that you abandon your rational thought processes . . .
just that you lay them aside enough to enable you to explore a new way of living.

It works.
It really does.

All the best.

Letitgo,
I'll cover each area separately.

AA Complicates:
- Not at all. For me its pretty uncomplicated. Take it one day at a time without picking up, let go and keep it simple. Alkies complicate everything, sobriety is not complicated.

On meetings:
Some people need meetings more than others. There is no rule that says you must attend but it is recommended you do in order to help others by being there and to get the support you need. I do remind myself everyday that I'm an alcoholic to avoid the onset of "wishful thinking", this would be the benefit of meetings to many.

On Freewill:
Refer to above on keep it simple. I asked many metaphysical questions at the start and tried to conceptualize and visualize "God" in a way that made sense to me. What "God" is, is not really important anymore. I take "God" as a verb and try to live by principles. I allow myself to evolve spiritually.

On Religion:
That's a personal choice. I don't subscribe to any religion or give myself any label other than alcoholic. I do read widely on traditions and philosophies as they apply to recovery and take what I need and leave the rest be it Taoism, Buddhism, Christianity, Zoroastrian and Jediism. Right now I'm reading "Jedi Religion" by Kevin Trout, so you can see I'm open minded too :D

By all means, question and rationalize if you need to. Just avoid trying to rationalize the "drinking problem". That little merry go-round had me through the ringer for many years.

Have fun with recovery, its your Journey.

God welcomes honest questioning. There are rational reasons why I believe Christianity is the correct religion. Perhaps we can discuss it sometime. But it's taken years for me to come to this understanding. In the beginning yes, a little blind faith can get you started.


A favorite quote of mine from Thomas Jefferson; in terms of religion keep honesty planted firmly in her seat. And question with boldness even the very existence of God, for if He exists He must surely prefer honest questioning to blindfolded fear.

Great questions. I am happy to discuss if you wish. PM me if you want. Seek, and you WILL find the answers if you are honest, open, and willing. This is coming from an agnostic skeptic.

I like the keep it simple approach
I was reading a book this morning when it reminded me of this thread.


we usually experience our best understanding of God when we humbly admit our alcoholic illness and sincerely lose ourselves in the AA way of life.Friendly acts of service,forgiveness,and amends help our understanding.

Little Red Book,page 39 step 3

I would suggest leaving behind,for now, the idea of "God already knows what will happen" and try something else for a while.God knowledge and our knowledge can`t be compared too much.If I worry about what God knows and try to figure it out,I will miss out experiencing Him.I would probably then try to control the deal or manipulate things.Faith may be left out also.Thats just me...

A Thing
 

One more thing. If you are like me, you want your own relationship, not someone else's experience. The "we" thing always seemed like someone trying to speak for a group of others and that smacks in the light of humility.
If God can be seen by His character of difference and variety, why should I compare my journey to any other than His Own creation?
Search. Put no constraints on His sovereignty or Grace, and share your journey with others. Narrow is the gate... ;)

Form follows function
 

In response to your question #2: I submit for your consideration that the AA program is not designed to answer deep universal questions about the nature of God and the moral theology of free will. What it is designed to do (IMHO) is answer the questions: How do I find the power to stop drinking and how do I live in my own skin once I do?

One does not use a microscope to study astronomy.

As far as question #1 goes, the AA program teaches simplicity. The fact that a lot of us needlessly complicate it indicates our need for more practice. Fortunately, the practice can be a good deal of fun.

Rule 52: Don't take yourself too damn seriously!

A wonderful post Dox. This quote is my experience exactly. When I gave up the fight with booze and started seeking the God of my not understanding, thoughts of drinking left me.

While I am still not religious, Doctor Bob promised my Heavenly Father will never let me down, and he never has.

Thanks for your responses. I think my 1st question may vary by person or afflitction. I hope I can rationally recover from alcohol. I am 71 days in but by no means cured. I was very tempted today. I had to dump some wine we had it in the house left over from the weekend.
I like aa and do mot plan on work the steps at this time. I like attending meets every other month or so.
After thinking about my second question I thought I was religous in the past but i never really had a relationship with a god or the god per se. I guess i should start small questioning religions aspects. I just can not rationally believe in some things christanity offers.
However, i think and agree with a few truths.

1. I appreciate the values and norals christanity and other religions use as guidance.
2. Nature/world/universe is incredible. It's hard to believe all of this just appeared randomly ie still open to a higher power being a god.

3. I will post future items in the spirituality forum. I hope i didnt offend anyone and thank again for your thoughts

I'm not sure how you took the leap from 'God' and 'Higher Power' to Christianity. It is a higher power or our own understanding (i.e. Not ourself - we are not in control of everything). Of all the people I've met in the AA rooms, a very small % have been Christians.

Also, mostly when I go to AA I'm focussing not on Alcohol, but on my recovery. When you look at the steps, it is only the first one that actually even mentions alcohol. For me, AA is not about getting sober. It's about learning to be happy sober, and know ways to deal with resentments; anger; fear; etc. without feeling the need to reach for alcohol to put a fuzzy blanket over these uncomfortable feelings. Also, how to address my character defects so that I can conduct myself in a way that causes as little harm as possible.

Again I applogize for my ignorant posts. I thought AA was affliated with Christianity. I have not read the big book and only been to 5 meetings or so. You have tought me otherwise. Thank you.

Your posts aren't ignorant at all; those are good questions and it helps to clear up any confusion there might be. And you can bet that out of the many lurkers on here, at least one will be wondering the same things.

So, thank you for asking. :c014:

I think that's a natural assumption (esp with many church owned meeting rooms being the best value and most reliable for meetings to be held at). I'd have hoped they'd have talked about this stuff at least a little at the meetings you went to. So many people are initially put off by the presumed link to Christianity and organised religion that I think it is worth mentioning to any newcomer that it is not necessarily the case.

:)

PS This particular part of the Big Book might be helpful to you if you're interested in finding out more re what AA says about Higher Power / God...
http://www.aa.org/assets/en_US/en_bigbook_chapt4.pdf

And this section of the 12 and 12....
http://www.aa.org/assets/en_US/en_step2.pdf

And keep asking questions. It does us good to think about things so we can answer :)