Sad for those who don't understand
Grateful
Join Date: May 2013
Location: NC
Posts: 1,763
Originally Posted by Kathleen41 
Yea, I get that Dee, and I enjoy your sharing, AA member or not. But others are like, "I hate sushi and I'm not Japanese. I'm going to go to the sushi restaurant and read the menu and then complain about everything on it!"
And as I said, all are welcome and can state their opinion. Just bear in mind you all are on a 12 step alcoholism recovery area of this website. So when the people on it are posting pro AA thoughts, it shouldn't be surprising or controversial. And if people are strongly anti AA, maybe there are other areas of SR where they can find like minded people.
And as I said, all are welcome and can state their opinion. Just bear in mind you all are on a 12 step alcoholism recovery area of this website. So when the people on it are posting pro AA thoughts, it shouldn't be surprising or controversial. And if people are strongly anti AA, maybe there are other areas of SR where they can find like minded people.
Yikes!
Laozi Old Man
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Detroit, MI
Posts: 6,665
Originally Posted by tomsteve
one thing AA has taught me is that everyone is entitled to their own opinion. if I don't like it, I can waste my time debating and trying to show them how wrong they are and how high and mighty I am or I can accept that God gave everyone the right to believe what they want to believe, whatever their God may be is allright as long as it is helping them.
took me some hard knocks to get the pedestal knocked out from under me and start lookin across at people instead of down on them.
took me some hard knocks to get the pedestal knocked out from under me and start lookin across at people instead of down on them.
If my tagline makes no sense to you. It is because you have yet to have the Zen experience.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Laconia
Posts: 813
Originally Posted by Dee74
Yep...welcome to the internet Kathleen
We mods will look out for rule breakers. You guys can help us by reporting those.
For disagreements of opinion that still fall within the rules we prefer a self regulatory thing wherever possible - especially in a forum like this where I assume you want to keep things open to encourage new folks to check out AA.
if other posters annoy you, I encourage use of the ignore function
D
We mods will look out for rule breakers. You guys can help us by reporting those.
For disagreements of opinion that still fall within the rules we prefer a self regulatory thing wherever possible - especially in a forum like this where I assume you want to keep things open to encourage new folks to check out AA.
if other posters annoy you, I encourage use of the ignore function
D
but simply asking a question.
I think disagreements are healthy for keeping things open and very conducive for
encouraging new folks who are checking out the Steps of AA
because they reveal that there is more than one side to any opinion.
The last thing I would do if other posters annoy me is ignore them. I would
prefer to inventory myself and find out why I feel annoyed to determine if
there is something within myself that needs to be turned over or changed.
That's what the steps are about, for me, as I have been taught to work them.
Further, it is my duty when carrying my message to ensure that anyone
seeking answers hears both sides of a position so that they have a choice.
Laozi Old Man
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Detroit, MI
Posts: 6,665
Originally Posted by Ohio1
I really don't think its that hard to do AA sans religion- if I had to be a Christian to be in AA I wouldn't be in AA- I just have to do some translating at times.
if I had to be a Christian to be in AA I wouldn't be in AA
if I had to be a atheist to be in AA I wouldn't be in AA
if I had to be a conformist to be in AA I wouldn't be in AA
if I had to be a non-conformist to be in AA I wouldn't be in AA
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,416
I didn't see where Kathleen was complaining about "rule breakers"
but simply asking a question.
I think disagreements are healthy for keeping things open and very conducive for
encouraging new folks who are checking out the Steps of AA
because they reveal that there is more than one side to any opinion.
The last thing I would do if other posters annoy me is ignore them. I would
prefer to inventory myself and find out why I feel annoyed to determine if
there is something within myself that needs to be turned over or changed.
That's what the steps are about, for me, as I have been taught to work them.
Further, it is my duty when carrying my message to ensure that anyone
seeking answers hears both sides of a position so that they have a choice.
but simply asking a question.
I think disagreements are healthy for keeping things open and very conducive for
encouraging new folks who are checking out the Steps of AA
because they reveal that there is more than one side to any opinion.
The last thing I would do if other posters annoy me is ignore them. I would
prefer to inventory myself and find out why I feel annoyed to determine if
there is something within myself that needs to be turned over or changed.
That's what the steps are about, for me, as I have been taught to work them.
Further, it is my duty when carrying my message to ensure that anyone
seeking answers hears both sides of a position so that they have a choice.
My job is remind folks of the rules and, outside that, of the ways members themselves can help make SR the kind of place they want it to be.
The standard procedure here is to let everyone know of the ignore function, and of the importance of reporting any posts you guys feel break the rules.
In artsoul's absence that's what I did here.
It's about promoting useful discussion, not curtailing or limiting it.
The Ignore function is not mandatory, and it's not permanent if you don't want it to be - but it can take the heat out of a situation...in the end though, it's entirely up to you whether you use it or not.
D
Last edited by Dee74; 09-02-2013 at 08:52 PM.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Miami, FL
Posts: 1,701
Originally Posted by Ohio1
I love any analogy that works in Jews and Christians lol. I would argue AA can be like a Jew joining a catholic parish if there was no other option around. I'd rather be a Jew hanging around with Catholics I don't totally agree with than pure atheists.
.
.
Also, I cannot say I ever felt that 12-step fellowships offered support that I needed. I really needed to discuss my difficulties in staying clean and sober, which did not fall within the Experience, Strength and Hope that we were supposed to share. Also, I found it helped to talk when I had the urge to use/drink. I might have felt different if my needs were more in line with what 12-step programs offered.
For me, it was my long, long struggle with the second step that really gave me recovery. I never did the step but in trying to I learned how important honesty and connection were to my recovery. It meant leaving AA, but I am still grateful to the program since I never would have found my own path without it.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: FL
Posts: 698
Originally Posted by Dee74
I actually didn't see a question in Kathleen's post
D
D
Originally Posted by Kathleen41
You are always welcome here. However I'm curious as to why you and others read and post on a 12 step alcoholism recovery area. Since you don't want what we have, and all the dwelling makes you crazy, why bother??
Do anti AA people come here to learn more, make fun of us, or because they want to be argumentative? Doesn't much matter to me, however I suggest the AA detractors examine their motives for participating in a 12 step recovery area.
I agree with UncleMeat. If I'm annoyed I need to figure out my part, ACCEPTANCE is usually the answer to all my problems today!!
And thank you Dee74 for sub-moderating our area. Stop by anytime!!
Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Miami, FL
Posts: 1,701
Kathleen--
I have a smart answer and a stupid one:
Smart: I spent over seven years in 12-step recovery. So it was a big part of my life. It gave me alot, so I am still interested. However, when I was in the program I felt hopeless most of the time and completely alone. I wish someone had told me that I could still recover even though I was failing within 12-step programs.
Stupid: I usually do not look at the column that says what area the post is in. I try, but if a threads title catches my eye I click without looking at the last column.
I have a smart answer and a stupid one:
Smart: I spent over seven years in 12-step recovery. So it was a big part of my life. It gave me alot, so I am still interested. However, when I was in the program I felt hopeless most of the time and completely alone. I wish someone had told me that I could still recover even though I was failing within 12-step programs.
Stupid: I usually do not look at the column that says what area the post is in. I try, but if a threads title catches my eye I click without looking at the last column.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: northern michigan. not the U.P.
Posts: 15,281
Kathleen, one thing I leanred is it doesn't matter if its AA or smart or AVRT, chevy or ford, regular or synthetic motor oil, college or pro football...you name it....theres anti "it" people and they will voice their opinion.
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Colorado
Posts: 821
Originally Posted by Kathleen41
Do anti AA people come here to learn more, make fun of us, or because they want to be argumentative? Doesn't much matter to me, however I suggest the AA detractors examine their motives for participating in a 12 step recovery area.
Wow I did not know I was an "AA detractor"... thought I just didn't use the program...lol. At any rate the title of the thread was what caught my eye. Then reading the original post it felt as if someone was saying they felt sorry for me not "getting it" referring to the AA program. I just wanted to chime in and say, "no pity needed for me, I am ok without it." Honestly I did not look at which area it was posted in either.
Also, I would like to say why change anything about AA? Why change a program that helps so many people and has for so long? Sure people are going to shy away from AA due to the God stuff and higher power stuff because they know it will not work with their beliefs but who cares? There are other programs for those people.
Anyway, just my opinion.
Jess
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: canada
Posts: 7,242
interesting discussion.
i'd like to add that a person like me, in other words: that i come and read here because i learn. i'm neither anti-AA (though i used to be) nor a "detractor". but if i hadn't had a chance to read posts from lots of AA-people, i still WOULD be anti-AA.
so i appreciate that i can read, ask a question or two, share some p[puzzlement, get an explanation, different views. all these give me things to take away. all these things have helped me. changed my ideas. widened my view.
so, thank you.
in that same vein, it saddens me when i hear people here(in 12-step threads/forums)occasionally speak of inadvertently joining a discussion in the secular section and yikes!
why on earth shouldn't there be "cross-fertilization"?
it seems counterproductive to restrict to one section, one "group", and not see what "those people over there" are talking about and how "their way" is helpful.
the person who is living day one today, or going to a BBQ tomorrow and worried, or dealing with a major craving....can find good stuff all over this SR board. even if they've decided on one approach, others have much to add/offer.
i'd like to add that a person like me, in other words: that i come and read here because i learn. i'm neither anti-AA (though i used to be) nor a "detractor". but if i hadn't had a chance to read posts from lots of AA-people, i still WOULD be anti-AA.
so i appreciate that i can read, ask a question or two, share some p[puzzlement, get an explanation, different views. all these give me things to take away. all these things have helped me. changed my ideas. widened my view.
so, thank you.
in that same vein, it saddens me when i hear people here(in 12-step threads/forums)occasionally speak of inadvertently joining a discussion in the secular section and yikes!
why on earth shouldn't there be "cross-fertilization"?
it seems counterproductive to restrict to one section, one "group", and not see what "those people over there" are talking about and how "their way" is helpful.
the person who is living day one today, or going to a BBQ tomorrow and worried, or dealing with a major craving....can find good stuff all over this SR board. even if they've decided on one approach, others have much to add/offer.
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Colorado
Posts: 821
Thanks fini for that. When I need help some of my favorite people on here who chime in are in AA. A very good friend of mine "works the program". I really couldn't care less and I hope that I can be of help to anyone who needs it whether they are AA or RR or no program etc...
I hope we aren't that segregated that people feel they don't want to go to another area on the forum to help someone out. After all the goal remains the same.
That said I would not ever come on the 12 step forum and degrade AA and I hope no one would come to the secular forum and degrade my way of staying sober. Mutual respect.
Jess
I hope we aren't that segregated that people feel they don't want to go to another area on the forum to help someone out. After all the goal remains the same.
That said I would not ever come on the 12 step forum and degrade AA and I hope no one would come to the secular forum and degrade my way of staying sober. Mutual respect.
Jess
Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Houston Texas
Posts: 1,003
I wish people who dislike AA would simply post where they have found their own recovery. This site is great for that.
When I don't care for something, I don't go to that place and make a point of it. lol That's nuts to me.
whatever! I am avoiding more and more threads these days. Just the same ole' BS.
When I don't care for something, I don't go to that place and make a point of it. lol That's nuts to me.
whatever! I am avoiding more and more threads these days. Just the same ole' BS.
Grateful to be free
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Arizona
Posts: 3,680
A couple thoughts.
SR is a discussion forum. When people post things, they are going to be discussed. That may include people posting things we don't agree with.
If we want to post something, a thought or experience without really wanting discussion or refute, the blog section here is a good place to do that. Get your thoughts out and usually get little feedback.
I've noticed many posts lately (not just speaking about the 12 step forum) where people share, then others come in and say "sheesh, I didn't put this here so people could disagree with it" or ask "why are you posting here anyway?"...basically implying that other people on SR don't have the same right and freedom to post, share their opinions, etc as anyone else does.
I find that the honesty and variety of experiences, programs and posters is what makes SR such a great support to my recovery. Having my own thoughts challenged, access to the experiences and perspectives of others helps me build a more rigorous and honest recovery for myself.
When I get sensitive, I stop posting because I know I won't be able to gracefully handle the replies. I hope I never say or imply that I don't want someone else to honestly share their feeling and experience, because I do, that is why I come here, to benefit from the shares of others.
SR is a discussion forum. When people post things, they are going to be discussed. That may include people posting things we don't agree with.
If we want to post something, a thought or experience without really wanting discussion or refute, the blog section here is a good place to do that. Get your thoughts out and usually get little feedback.
I've noticed many posts lately (not just speaking about the 12 step forum) where people share, then others come in and say "sheesh, I didn't put this here so people could disagree with it" or ask "why are you posting here anyway?"...basically implying that other people on SR don't have the same right and freedom to post, share their opinions, etc as anyone else does.
I find that the honesty and variety of experiences, programs and posters is what makes SR such a great support to my recovery. Having my own thoughts challenged, access to the experiences and perspectives of others helps me build a more rigorous and honest recovery for myself.
When I get sensitive, I stop posting because I know I won't be able to gracefully handle the replies. I hope I never say or imply that I don't want someone else to honestly share their feeling and experience, because I do, that is why I come here, to benefit from the shares of others.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Houston Texas
Posts: 1,003
Originally Posted by Threshold
A couple thoughts.
SR is a discussion forum. When people post things, they are going to be discussed. That may include people posting things we don't agree with.
If we want to post something, a thought or experience without really wanting discussion or refute, the blog section here is a good place to do that. Get your thoughts out and usually get little feedback.
I've noticed many posts lately (not just speaking about the 12 step forum) where people share, then others come in and say "sheesh, I didn't put this here so people could disagree with it" or ask "why are you posting here anyway?"...basically implying that other people on SR don't have the same right and freedom to post, share their opinions, etc as anyone else does.
I find that the honesty and variety of experiences, programs and posters is what makes SR such a great support to my recovery. Having my own thoughts challenged, access to the experiences and perspectives of others helps me build a more rigorous and honest recovery for myself.
When I get sensitive, I stop posting because I know I won't be able to gracefully handle the replies. I hope I never say or imply that I don't want someone else to honestly share their feeling and experience, because I do, that is why I come here, to benefit from the shares of others.
SR is a discussion forum. When people post things, they are going to be discussed. That may include people posting things we don't agree with.
If we want to post something, a thought or experience without really wanting discussion or refute, the blog section here is a good place to do that. Get your thoughts out and usually get little feedback.
I've noticed many posts lately (not just speaking about the 12 step forum) where people share, then others come in and say "sheesh, I didn't put this here so people could disagree with it" or ask "why are you posting here anyway?"...basically implying that other people on SR don't have the same right and freedom to post, share their opinions, etc as anyone else does.
I find that the honesty and variety of experiences, programs and posters is what makes SR such a great support to my recovery. Having my own thoughts challenged, access to the experiences and perspectives of others helps me build a more rigorous and honest recovery for myself.
When I get sensitive, I stop posting because I know I won't be able to gracefully handle the replies. I hope I never say or imply that I don't want someone else to honestly share their feeling and experience, because I do, that is why I come here, to benefit from the shares of others.
Yes, this forum is listed as 12-step. I was thrilled when I found it. And loved some of the discussions with other AA members.
But it's turning into the same ole' anti-AA junk, thread after thread. It's self-selecting, to be honest.
I pop in less and less now. And I wouldn't bother posting a thread myself. I don't enjoy or care for debating with those who have walked away or rejected AA. My hat's off to them. I certainly wish them well.
But I wasn't interested in this forum for that discussion.
Oh well.....powerless over others. But not powerless over my choices of where to spend my own online time.
Moving on here.....
Member
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 204
I remember back in the 90s going to an AA meeting just to have a place to get out of the cold. About 20 minutes and back into the cold i went.
I know a guy who goes to meetings every morning. Just a place for him to hang out, drink coffee, and hopefully score cookies or donuts. He doesn't drink but smokes weed every day and goes off on the occasional crack binge. For sure he finds a "higher power" getting stoned every day. As a matter of fact, he spent the past weekend smoking crack virtually nonstop.
I would bet anyone right now that i can take a case of beer, knock every single can out and avoid further drinking for however long it takes. "Helpless" my @$#. Quitting was a business decision. Will and nothing more. Furthermore, any "promises" that people make and don't hold fast to these days just encourages homicidal thought.
My belief is of the indifferent god. Prayer is merely begging isn't it? I don't and never will. Why waste time and breath on something that never delivers.
I know a guy who goes to meetings every morning. Just a place for him to hang out, drink coffee, and hopefully score cookies or donuts. He doesn't drink but smokes weed every day and goes off on the occasional crack binge. For sure he finds a "higher power" getting stoned every day. As a matter of fact, he spent the past weekend smoking crack virtually nonstop.
I would bet anyone right now that i can take a case of beer, knock every single can out and avoid further drinking for however long it takes. "Helpless" my @$#. Quitting was a business decision. Will and nothing more. Furthermore, any "promises" that people make and don't hold fast to these days just encourages homicidal thought.
My belief is of the indifferent god. Prayer is merely begging isn't it? I don't and never will. Why waste time and breath on something that never delivers.
Its_me_jen
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Salina, Ks
Posts: 8,547
I was a person who scoffed at AA - one of my excuses was that it was religious. When I was saying that then -- it really had nothing to do with that. I just didn't want to quit drinking, and if I did decide to quit, I didn't want to have to work that damn hard.
I'm at least half atheist, some days more than others, and I benefit from AA tremendously.
Some days I'm annoyed by the God word being used so much. Some days I don't even notice it.
I don't say the Lord's Prayer at the end of meetings with folks. I stand with them, holding hands, and either say a prayer in my head or just listen/feel the power of the group.
I used to think I was the most open minded person you could ever meet -- and then as I worked with my therapist and then with my sponsor. I realized I really wasn't. Especially when it came to religion/spirituality/God. Coming to this realization helped me so much I can hardly but it into words. It's like a whole new world opened up.
The biggest lesson I learned that someone else's opinion of my spirituality or lack of it does not matter. It was really holding me back. I had no idea how much.
Mostly I posed on this thread to say - what a great damn thread! Thank you folks for being here. Threads like this one are just one of the many reason I love SR.
I'm at least half atheist, some days more than others, and I benefit from AA tremendously.
Some days I'm annoyed by the God word being used so much. Some days I don't even notice it.
I don't say the Lord's Prayer at the end of meetings with folks. I stand with them, holding hands, and either say a prayer in my head or just listen/feel the power of the group.
I used to think I was the most open minded person you could ever meet -- and then as I worked with my therapist and then with my sponsor. I realized I really wasn't. Especially when it came to religion/spirituality/God. Coming to this realization helped me so much I can hardly but it into words. It's like a whole new world opened up.
The biggest lesson I learned that someone else's opinion of my spirituality or lack of it does not matter. It was really holding me back. I had no idea how much.
Mostly I posed on this thread to say - what a great damn thread! Thank you folks for being here. Threads like this one are just one of the many reason I love SR.
Grateful
Join Date: May 2013
Location: NC
Posts: 1,763
Originally Posted by fini
in that same vein, it saddens me when i hear people here(in 12-step threads/forums)occasionally speak of inadvertently joining a discussion in the secular section and yikes!
why on earth shouldn't there be "cross-fertilization"?
it seems counterproductive to restrict to one section, one "group", and not see what "those people over there" are talking about and how "their way" is helpful.
why on earth shouldn't there be "cross-fertilization"?
it seems counterproductive to restrict to one section, one "group", and not see what "those people over there" are talking about and how "their way" is helpful.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,947
Originally Posted by Carbonized
Prayer is merely begging isn't it? I don't and never will. Why waste time and breath on something that never delivers.
Prayer works for me when it give it the power to work in my life. I don't pray for new car though, even though I need one, LOL...
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